Great Circle Associates Firewalls
(February 1997)
 

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Subject: Re: Sidewinder vs. Cyberguard
From: Matthew Patton <patton @ sysnet . net>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 97 21:31:07 -0400
To: "Jim Canfield" <jcanfiel @ davocom . com>
Cc: <firewalls @ greatcircle . com>

Jim Canfield wrote:
>The most secure, usable, firewall we have found to date is the
>Cyberguard

On what basis do you make this assertion?  "secure" can mean a lot of 
things and a rubber stamp from NSA or it's equivalent doesn't mean a 
whole lot if buggy software can be trivially exploited.  We could go on 
about "usable" but I'll let that one slide.  In particular is the 
firewall configuration an EXACT match with the 
"certified/tested/evaluated" machine?  NT has a C2 rating but it's not 
worth a damn.  When was the last time you ran an NT box with no LAN, no 
floppy, and with a modified BIOS?  Not exactly a useful product.  Then 
again, assuming you duplicate this setup, place said machine nearish to a 
window.  Electronic eavesdropping (for about $3000 and change) or outside 
observation does tend to degrade the usefulness of said rating does it 
not?

>As mentioned the products are B1 compliant (awaiting certification)....
whatever, see above.

>They are relatively easy to setup , nice GUI and it has built in the
Ah, the GUI.  Remote manageable too I think I recall.  What to say when 
the X11 session gets hijacked?  You sure the box isn't running a 
braindamaged X11 server?  Can you attack the logging facility thru DOS?  
What happens when you bog the machine down with hundreds of connections?  
Does it run out of VM and spontaneously reboot?  How about the logs 
filling up the disk?  What happens when this occurs and an exploit is 
then launched?  Do you still have an audit trail?

>ablity for most "standard "(excuse the word) proxies and allows creation
>of probably anything you might need.
So they know how to check off all of the feature boxes on the report 
card.  Anybody can and everybody does that.

IMO ratings, be they NSA/NCSA or whatever aren't worth much and 
deffinately not a price premium.  I take far more comfort in people 
banging away at the available stuff and fixing the problems.  
Additionally, you really believe the vendor (or reviewer for that matter) 
went thru every single line of code specifically looking for possible 
exploits?  Get real.  All the ratings do is study the protection scheme 
and bless it as logical and OK at least in theory.  Then with various 
degrees of persistance they try to prove you can't get around said 
protection.  Holes and stack smashes by way of poorly written C and 
resolver libraries and DOS via SYN etc. aren't addressed.  If they were 
we wouldn't be plagued with some of the problems we have now.


Follow-Ups:
Indexed By Date Previous: Re: [NTSEC] ActiveX, MSIE and Quicken
From: Todd Graham Lewis <lists @ reflections . mindspring . com>
Next: Re: Secure Telneting into a internal network
From: Adam Shostack <adam @ homeport . org>
Indexed By Thread Previous: Re: Sidewinder vs. Cyberguard
From: Jim Canfield <jcanfiel @ davocom . com>
Next: Re: Sidewinder vs. Cyberguard
From: mcoss @ attmail . com (Michael J Coss)

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