Great Circle Associates Firewalls
(December 1997)

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Subject: RE: NT as a central intranet firewall
From: "Fouts, Michael" <MFouts @ citgroup . com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:00:09 -0500
To: firewalls @ GreatCircle . COM, Clyde Williamson <clydew @ ee . net>, "'Billy Verreynne'" <vslabs @ onwe . co . za>

Take your ridiculous OS wars and opinions off line.  This is not a
marketing forum to discuss which OS is better.  Thank you. 

> ----------
> From: 	Billy Verreynne[SMTP:vslabs @
 onwe .
 co .
> Sent: 	Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:36 AM
> To: 	firewalls @
 GreatCircle .
 COM; Clyde Williamson
> Subject: 	Re: NT as a central intranet firewall
> Clyde Williamson said:
> So you work in the "real world". Ok, let's look at your statements:
> >NT is not reliable yet....
> Define reliable. Or does the fact not count that we are running 2
> mission
> critical NT servers with SQL-Server across a WAN _without_ NT crashing
> for
> the last year? And no, we are not the only ones. There are 1000's of
> companies that are also using NT for mission critical applications.
> > Novell is much more stable than NT.
> In what respect? File sharing? - maybe yes. Application server? - no
> way. A
> NLM that is more stable than a NT server application!? Not likely.
> >The  reason NT is gaining in market share is becasue of M$ marketing
> and
> >lazy IS dept's.
> So why not blame Novell's marketing for a job poorly done? Or rant and
> rave
> about Novell's CEO that does not do his job? Or is this only Microsoft
> and
> Bill Gates allowed to be the subject of scrunity and criticism?
> Anyway, NT
> *is* easier to install and run, have more stable and robust services
> that
> Netware, can scale better than Netware, have a much wider range of
> server
> applications to choose from, better ISV (Independant Software Vendor)
> support, etc. etc..
> > You talk about the real world... I'm in the real world. My company
> has
> teams
> >in NT, UNIX, Novell, Banyan VINES, Macintosh, specialized Internet,
> >App. Development, and project management.
> Real world = a company with a diversified focus of
> developing/supporting/selling/maintaining(?) a wide range of operating
> systems and other business services. Interesting. And your company is
> actively involved with NT. Interesting. Well, if NT is such a shitty
> operating system, why on earth is your company actively involved in
> NT? Why
> not just focus on a two "core" businness areas that only includes the
> likes
> of Unix and Novell? I have seen these companies that try to be a "one
> stop
> solution provider" and they always seems to me to be driven by
> quick-buck-sales and lacking any real solid technical skills.
> >We have many, many
> >customers in all of those catagories. And I can tell you from
> >experience in the real world, the reason, the only reason, IS likes
> >NT is that it's easy and popular. It's not reliable, it's not
> >scaleable, it's useless.
> I have been in marketing as a product manager and also a client server
> consultant in pre-sales, assisting IS in defining 5 and 10 year
> strategies.
> You match the technology with the business requirements. And if your
> company's salesforce sells NT to IS, just because IS likes it, then
> would not recommend anyone doing business with your company. And if
> technical people like you slams products that your company is actively
> involved in, it raises a big question marks in my mind about your
> capabilities, your loyalty to your company and about your company's
> ability
> to provide technical support and maintenance for the products that you
> sell/support.
> Welcome to the real world.
> regards,
> Billy

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