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At 07:14 AM 2/24/98 -0800, Bennett Todd wrote:
>1998-02-23-17:37:03 Dennis Keller:
>> [...] Point 2 hits it right on the head, *maintaining* and
>> *continuing*. How many people are willing to do this? And how
>> many organizations can afford it?
>
>That is indeed a critical part of the whole picture.
>
>The question is, how _useful_ are these courses?
>
- -----> This is a valid question, of course. In so far as it has been
mentioned several times before in this thread, we must take into
account that most courses are outdated before the ink is dry, much
less by the time a person can take it. HOWEVER...that does NOT
mean the content isn't another building block upon which the
experienced practitioner can increase their worth to their customer
base.
>Unless they are far more useful than the same length of time spent
>working and reading and learning on your own, people are only going
to
- -----> The "learning and working on your own" are indeed valuable,
but
as you point out later, the peer interaction and learning REALLY
takes place as you collaborate with others.
>be willing to do it if they _aren't_ working and learning on their
own.
>Organizations can afford it; courses are cheap. Very few courses
cost as
>much as the downtime costs to the organization, and many
organizations
>can afford that.
>
- -----> And many organizations can NOT afford the down time, and
especially
if the person is a one-person consulting shop. When consultants
(be they Big N-1, small shops, or independent) are not on bill out,
it costs big $$. What is needed is a way to get the content AND
the experiences/interaction of peers without all that downtime. Some
figures I have seen indicate that the loaded cost of a high level
consultant would top $120 per hour. Downtime adds up quickly at
rates like that. Bill out probably exceeds $300 for a person of
this caliber.
>But where do we find a course or conference that is far more useful
than
>the same time spent working and learning? They're few and far
between.
>The Usenix Security Symposium qualifies. It is packed with
tutorials,
>referreed technical papers covering cutting-edge research work,
invited
>talks covering research and practical experience, BOFs where people
get
>together and discuss what's happening today, and so on.
>
>Anybody want to name some others?
>
- -----> One suggestion (once we get this so far mythical certifying
body ;-))
is that course material can be published via WWW for study. Then
utilizing any number of tools available today (W3 Conferencing,
NetMeetings, etc) the interchange of peer groups all in the same
class can be done. For anyone who has ever tried couses by
distance learning (ala University of Phoenix etc) that concept
can work. The largest single obstacle is in finding a time to
do the collaboration due to time-zone differences. Even this can
be solved by running multiple groups with membership in the same
timezone. Most travellers have laptops, most have home computers,
so evenings in the hotel or at home could be used for the
collaberation
with success.
>-Bennett
>
- -----> Bottom line: I truely believe it **CAN** be invaluable at not
only
getting newbies up to speed, but also for old veterans to keep on
the cutting edge. Now...all we need is that so far mysterious
body of expertiese to step up to the plate!!!
My $.0115 (after taxes but not adjusted for inflation)
Steve Kruse
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