From list-managers-owner Fri Sep 1 00:00:12 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id XAA19671 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 23:50:14 -0700 Received: from mach3.directnet.com (mach3.directnet.com [204.177.0.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id XAA19664 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 23:50:11 -0700 Received: from p15.ppp-1.directnet.com by mach3.directnet.com via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA28831; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 23:45:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199509010645.XAA28831@mach3.directnet.com> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 95 07:49:53 0800 From: David Kalwitz X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List-Managers-Digest@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Starting a Mailing List X-URL: http://www.nova.edu/Inter-Links/cgi-bin/lists?mailing+list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I'm interested in finding information about how one starts up a mailing list. Can you help me or point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance, David Kalwitz (dkal@directnet.com) From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 7 11:02:26 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id KAA20610 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:35:42 -0700 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id KAA20602 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:35:37 -0700 From: PMDAtropos@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA03853; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:31:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:31:04 -0400 Message-ID: <950907133101_13278276@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: lstown-l@searn.sunet.se, list-managers@greatcircle.com, isp-admin-list@listserv.aol.com Subject: E-mail gateway problems at AOL Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk As many of you have no doubt noticed, America Online experienced some mail gateway problems early this week. These problems resulted in rejected mail due to no file space and due to MIME process failure. I received the following information from our mail developers today: >We had some hardware problems yesterday that caused the odd bounce messages >(MIME file missing, etc.) The vendor is looking into the cause for us, but >all was fixed by 6 p.m. yesterday. If you see anything more recent, let me >know. > >Jay If you have had problems delivering mail to AOL for reasons other than the above, please let me know and I will make certain the developers are made aware of the situation ASAP. -- __ David B. O'Donnell (atropos@aol.net, PMDAtropos@aol.com) \/ AOL Internet Feedback/Response/Information Team Manager Tel. +1 703/448-8700 x3725 - FAX +1 703/883-1514 Belief-L, GLB-News -Press -Discuss, SoftRevu List Owner/Editor http://www.cais.com/atropos/ - "The spam stops here." From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 7 13:30:39 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id NAA25267 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:17:04 -0700 Received: from noah.smumn.edu (NOAH.smumn.edu [140.190.128.63]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id NAA25251 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:16:57 -0700 Received: by noah.smumn.edu (5.64/A/UX-3.00) id AA03433; Thu, 7 Sep 95 15:21:38 CDT Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 15:21:38 CDT From: kevinh@noah.smumn.edu (Kevin A. Hoogheem) Message-Id: <9509072021.AA03433@noah.smumn.edu> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Config files Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I have a few questions on the config file. What is the easiest way for you to make a new config file for each new list made? Is there in the works a script that will set up a new config and write into the aliases files when you want a new group started up. this would make life easy I suppose. Also I am having problems sending mail to list-request with the alias being: prpolice: "|/usr/local/majordom/wrapper resend -l prpolice -h noah.smumn.edu -s prpolice-outgoing" owner-prpolice: prpolice-owner prpolice-owner: kevinh prpolice-approval: prpolice-owner prpolice-outgoing: :|include:/usr/local/majordom/list/prpolice prpolice-request: "|/usr/local/majordom/wrapper request-answer prpolice" am I doing something wrong, can I not or should I not use some of the flags in the prpolice line if I use the config files with all that info in them thanks Kevin Hoogheem From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 7 17:01:12 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id QAA01002 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 16:41:54 -0700 Received: from relay4.UU.NET (relay4.UU.NET [192.48.96.14]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id PAA28302 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 15:12:39 -0700 Received: from postmodern.com by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzgfg23293; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:11:21 -0400 Received: by postmodern.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4/950522-mcb1) id AA01666; Thu, 7 Sep 95 15:09:40 PDT Message-Id: <9509072209.AA01666@postmodern.com> From: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 15:09:39 -0700 In-Reply-To: <9509072021.AA03433@noah.smumn.edu> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: kevinh@noah.smumn.edu (Kevin A. Hoogheem) Subject: Re: Config files Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com content-length: 483 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Reminder -- please do not post Majordomo-specific (or any other software package-specific) technical questions to list-managers. There is a Majordomo users forum (majordomo-users); for information send a message to majordomo-users-request@greatcircle.com, or to subscribe, send the command subscribe majordomo-users to (where else) majordomo@greatcircle.com. Thanks, -- Michael C. Berch Postmaster & list manager, Great Circle Associates mcb@greatcircle.com / mcb@postmodern.com From list-managers-owner Fri Sep 8 05:00:13 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id EAA15879 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 04:46:57 -0700 Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id EAA15872 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 04:46:54 -0700 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA02780 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 8 Sep 1995 04:45:29 -0700 Received: by bolero.rahul.net id AA11671 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Fri, 8 Sep 1995 04:45:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199509081145.AA11671@bolero.rahul.net> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: mailto: links with list addresses Date: Fri, 08 Sep 95 04:45:27 -0700 From: Michelle Dick Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I'm starting to get annoyed with folks who put up mailto: links on web pages pointing to mailing list addresses. Rarely do they result in properly formated requests and the requestors don't seem to know what they are requesting if they do get it right. Worse, often the From: line is incorrect. [though the most annoying scenario I've encountered is a bunch of requests with an admin address at MIT in the From line sent to an address of my that had an auto-responder. Of course, the admin there complained about all the multiple copies of mail and I worked to keep them from being sent -- but I'm still pissed that the admin had the audacity to complain to me when it was *their* problem and *their* mistake and it was really *they* who were annoying *me* since *they* generated the bad email in the first place. I certainly never asked their users to contact me using the broken interface. I must have been in a good mood or something when I kludged it on my end for the admin. I'm wondering if folks here know of any other web pages with mailto: links pointing to mailing lists in general? I'd like to chase such pointers down and ask that those pointing to my list be removed before they become a problem. Anyone know of such sites? One I've encountered is http://www.primenet.com/~karenwe I've written to the author asking that the mail link to me be removed, but haven't heard back yet. Long term, I'm sure I'll just have to put a filter in looking for www headers and pipe them all to /dev/null or something. -- Michelle Dick artemis@rahul.net East Palo Alto, CA Owner, FATFREE Vegetarian Mailing List From list-managers-owner Fri Sep 8 08:31:05 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id IAA21100 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:28:30 -0700 Received: from liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk (livbird.liv.ac.uk [138.253.31.12]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id IAA21093 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:28:22 -0700 Received: from liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk by liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk via Local channel id <19698-0@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk>; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:26:05 +0100 Subject: Re: mailto: links with list addresses To: artemis@rahul.net (Michelle Dick) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:26:03 +0100 (BST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <199509081145.AA11671@bolero.rahul.net> from "Michelle Dick" at Sep 8, 95 04:45:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 748 From: Alan Thew Message-ID: <"liverbird.li:197000:950908152608"@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In the last mail, Michelle Dick wrote: > > > I'm starting to get annoyed with folks who put up mailto: links on web > pages pointing to mailing list addresses. > ... > > I'm wondering if folks here know of any other web pages with mailto: > links pointing to mailing lists in general? I'd like to chase such > pointers down and ask that those pointing to my list be removed before > they become a problem. Anyone know of such sites? > There is a major mailing list search facility. The mailtos which refer to our lists don't mail the list. Try http://scwww.ucs.indiana.edu/mlarchive/ -- Alan Thew alan.thew@liv.ac.uk ...!uknet!liv!alan.thew Tel: +44 151 794-4497 University of Liverpool, Computing Services Fax: +44 151 794-4442 From list-managers-owner Fri Sep 8 13:10:45 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id MAA01061 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:46:31 -0700 Received: from miso.wwa.com (miso.wwa.com [198.49.174.33]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id MAA01043 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:46:18 -0700 Received: by miso.wwa.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0sr9Mp-000FduC; Fri, 8 Sep 95 14:45 CDT Message-Id: From: dattier@wwa.com (David W. Tamkin) Subject: Re: mailto: links with list addresses To: artemis@rahul.net (Michelle Dick) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:45:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <199509081145.AA11671@bolero.rahul.net> from "Michelle Dick" at Sep 8, 95 04:45:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2877 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Michelle Dick wrote, | I'm starting to get annoyed with folks who put up mailto: links on web | pages pointing to mailing list addresses. "Starting"? Then you're probably in the back of the pack. | Rarely do they result in properly formated requests and the requestors | don't seem to know what they are requesting if they do get it right. Precisely. I get empty letters from them, or letters containing nothing but their names or garbage characters, because they think clicking on the link is a DWIM button. | Long term, I'm sure I'll just have to put a filter in looking for www | headers and pipe them all to /dev/null or something. I already have; they don't go to /dev/null but to another folder. It's not the web surfer's fault that the web page maintainer put up a bunch of crap on line. Yesterday I had another: there was no mailto: link involved as far as I can tell, but it came via a gopher server. The gopher page gave my list's ad- dresses as follows: Mail to: Requests to: <-request address here> The reader though, "Well, I'm sending mail, right? And the gopher page, which is God's gospel, tells me that's where to send mail." It reminds me of the situation of driving into O'Hare Airport. Signs on the access road as you get there read "Arrivals" (where you drive to pick people up when they have flown into O'Hare) and "Departures" (where you drive to drop people off when they are going to fly out of O'Hare). The former has a graphic of a plane landing and the latter one of a plane taking off. Yet there always are motorists who see those signs and think, "I'm arriving at O'Hare, so I should go where the `Arrivals' sign points, because `Depar- tures' must point where you go to drive away from the airport." Anyhow, in two cases I've been fortunate enough that a web page maintainer has sought my permission first, and in another I asked on who already had a mailto: link to remove it because it had caused trouble, and I said to them that if they'd like to give instructions on how to join the list, thank you, but only under these conditions (because by my own choice I maintain the membership rolls manually for both of the lists I run): 1. There must be no mailto: link. 2. If you include instructions, they must not use the term "send email" nor should they say that the prospective subscriber should write to a name- less address. The phrasing must be reasonably close to this: "To subscribe to the list, write a letter to list maintainer David W. Tamkin at listname-request@site and ask to join." "Write a letter to a person;" not "send email to an address." It's dishear- tening how many people think "send email" means "send anything, even an emp- ty body with no subject line, and your wishes will be magically divined and granted." The new terminology seems to have helped. From list-managers-owner Fri Sep 8 14:01:16 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id NAA03348 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:33:23 -0700 Received: from pez.cs.UMD.EDU (pez.cs.umd.edu [128.8.126.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id NAA03317 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:33:05 -0700 Received: by pez.cs.UMD.EDU (8.6.11/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA16570; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:31:28 -0400 Message-Id: <199509082031.QAA16570@pez.cs.UMD.EDU> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: mailto: links with list addresses In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Sep 1995 16:26:03 BST." <"liverbird.li:197000:950908152608"@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 16:31:27 -0400 From: "Dabe 'Dabe' Murphy" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Fri, Sep 8, alan.thew@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk writes: > > There is a major mailing list search facility. The mailtos which refer to > our lists don't mail the list. > > Try > http://scwww.ucs.indiana.edu/mlarchive/ Unfortunately, this only mentions mailing lists running majordomo, listproc, or listserv. As many lists are run via good ol' "-request" aliases, these won't be found. Dabe -- Bummed is what you are dabe@cs.umd.edu I may agree with what When you go out to your http://www.cs.umd.edu/~dabe my boss says, but that Car and it's been towed doesn't mean HE agrees "Contact" - Phish Finger For PGP Key with everything I say. From list-managers-owner Fri Sep 8 17:00:22 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id QAA09570 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:35:02 -0700 Received: from fully.organic.com (fully.organic.com [204.62.129.32]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id VAA05878 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 21:05:20 -0700 Received: (from brian@localhost) by fully.organic.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA24131; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 03:58:55 GMT Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 20:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: HELP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Dear postmaster, The message below has several things wrong with it, and it would seem to indicate some brain-deaded-ness with your mail gateway. First off, the bounce notification is going back to the same mailing list it came from - which means that if my software hadn't caught it, it would have been duplicated and sent to every member of the list, and would have started a vicious loop which would have caused tons of wasted bandwidth and pissed off list members to no end. Secondly, I can't find a "Seth Haberman" or an address matching "376-5414" on the list, which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that I can't find any received: headers of the path it took between my machine and yours, so I have no way of finding out what other addresses/machines might be involved (i.e., if someone is forwarding their mail to their mcimail account). Thus, I have no way of removing this individual from my list, without asking *every* on the list to resubscribe, impossible for obvious reasons. What is your solution to this? Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@organic.com brian@hyperreal.com http://www.[hyperreal,organic].com/ > >From www-vrml-owner@wired.com Tue Sep 5 17:25:47 1995 > Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com by get.wired.com (8.6.12/sven) with ESMTP id RAA17201; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:25:42 -0700 > Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id AAA17862; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:21:35 GMT > Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id ad10840; 6 Sep 95 0:22 WET > Date: Tue, 5 Sep 95 18:28 EST > From: POSTMASTER > To: www vrml > Subject: Non-delivery Notification > Message-Id: <92950905232829/POSTMASTERPK3EM@MCIMAIL.COM> > > Your message 84950905230848/0003765414DC1EM of Tue Sep 05, 1995 11:08 pm GMT could not be delivered to: > > TO: Seth > EMS: Seth Haberman > MBX: 6A/HLH/SETH > > as the receiving mail system rejected the delivery for the following reason: > > Unable to perform; unknown reason > > --------------------------------- > Forwarded message #1 > > Date: Tue Sep 05, 1995 6:08 pm EST > From: www vrml > EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 > MBX: www-vrml@wired.com > > TO: Seth > EMS: Seth Haberman / MCI ID: 376-3021 > MBX: 6A/HLH/SETH > Subject: www-vrml-digest V1 #69 > > > www-vrml-digest Tuesday, 5 September 1995 Volume 01 : Number 069 > > To unsubscribe, send mail to "majordomo@wired.com" with the words > "unsubscribe www-vrml-digest" in the body of the message. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [message deleted] From list-managers-owner Fri Sep 8 22:00:10 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id VAA16652 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 21:46:56 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id VAA16644 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 21:46:51 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06548 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Fri, 8 Sep 1995 23:33:48 -0500 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA10852 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 23:08:01 -0500 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199509090408.XAA10852@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: FYI To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 23:08:01 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1897 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here are a couple recent solicitations I've received. The first one may be harmless, but I wrote him and asked him what advice he was planning on giving his readers, and he has yet to respond. The second is much more flagrant in nature. I haven't written him as I'm having trouble deciding exactly what to say to him. Tho he may just be confusing, thinking electronic mailing lists serve the same fuction as snail mail mailng lists.... From: JamesWS@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 21:30:34 -0400 Message-Id: <950905213003_11810037@mail06.mail.aol.com> Subject: magazine article Stepanie da Silva -- I am writing an article on electronic mailing lists. I recently obtained your megalist (of 1,374 I believe). I have seen your name in at least two articles (Netguide/April and Online Access/August), and I was wondering why you have compiled these lists and if you are part of a university or business (My guess is business since you have a commercial e-mail address). Anyway, the focus of my article is how businesses can improve their networking through elec. mailing lists. If you have any quotes or sources for this, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, if you could tell me where you are located -- readers like extraneous detail. I was going to mention in the article how to go about obtaining your list, if you do not mind. Thanks, James Sanford -- Information Entrepreneur, Traverse City, Mich. From: gfontain@MTS.Net Message-Id: <9509090332.AA15410@bottom.MTS.Net> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 21:43:15 PDT Subject: mailing list I am a mechanic who is interested in conducting a mailing survey. Would like info on rental or purchase of mailing list of people interested in automotive. survey is about 4 or 5 questions asking people if they would be interested if info on a booklet on "how to buy a used car". Any info you have would be appreciated Please reply to gfontain@mts.net From list-managers-owner Fri Sep 8 23:00:08 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id WAA17487 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 22:36:21 -0700 Received: from wilma.cs.utk.edu (WILMA.CS.UTK.EDU [128.169.94.141]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id WAA17480 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 22:36:15 -0700 Received: from LOCALHOST by wilma.cs.utk.edu with SMTP (cf v2.11c-UTK) id BAA07401; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 01:34:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199509090534.BAA07401@wilma.cs.utk.edu> X-URI: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~moore/ From: Keith Moore To: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com, moore@cs.utk.edu Subject: Re: FYI In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Sep 1995 23:08:01 CDT." <199509090408.XAA10852@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 1995 01:34:25 -0400 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Here are a couple recent solicitations I've received. The first one may > be harmless, but I wrote him and asked him what advice he was planning > on giving his readers, and he has yet to respond. The second is much more > flagrant in nature. I haven't written him as I'm having trouble > deciding exactly what to say to him. Tho he may just be confusing, > thinking electronic mailing lists serve the same fuction as snail mail > mailng lists.... It's difficult to judge someone's motives. A person who thinks in terms of doing business might have a hard time understanding why someone would maintain a list-of-lists as a community service. Someone who is used to doing direct (snail) mail advertising will see nothing wrong in asking to buy or rent a mailing list. In either case, my response would be that it is generally inappropriate to use Internet mailing lists for advertising; most lists are generally run as a public service, the list members don't want to be bothered with junk mail and consider it offensive, and such advertising will reflect unfavorably on the businesses it represents. Keith From list-managers-owner Sat Sep 9 06:00:08 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id FAA21271 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 05:48:57 -0700 Received: from hq.stargame.org (bh.mindspring.com [168.121.33.204]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id FAA21264 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 05:48:51 -0700 Received: (from bh@localhost) by hq.stargame.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA00137; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 07:51:47 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 07:51:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Hartsfield Reply-To: bh@digital.net To: Stephanie da Silva cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: FYI In-Reply-To: <199509090408.XAA10852@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, Stephanie da Silva wrote: > Here are a couple recent solicitations I've received. The first one may > be harmless, but I wrote him and asked him what advice he was planning > on giving his readers, and he has yet to respond. The second is much more > flagrant in nature. I haven't written him as I'm having trouble > deciding exactly what to say to him. Tho he may just be confusing, > thinking electronic mailing lists serve the same fuction as snail mail > mailng lists.... > > From: gfontain@MTS.Net > Message-Id: <9509090332.AA15410@bottom.MTS.Net> > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 21:43:15 PDT > Subject: mailing list > > I am a mechanic who is interested in conducting > a mailing survey. Would like info on rental or > purchase of mailing list of people interested > in automotive. > survey is about 4 or 5 questions asking people > if they would be interested if info on a booklet > on "how to buy a used car". > Any info you have would be appreciated This second one here just sounds like somebody that does not know how internet mailing lists differ from snail mail mailing lists. I would guess that they probably just got on interenet, saw a reference to your name and mailing lists, and assumed it was just like the mailing lists that they were used to. At this point I would that simply some education is in order. It sounds like a very innocent and easy to make mistake. Brian From list-managers-owner Sat Sep 9 14:00:00 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id NAA27028 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 13:47:56 -0700 Received: from miso.wwa.com (miso.wwa.com [198.49.174.33]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id NAA27021 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 13:47:53 -0700 Received: by miso.wwa.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0srWoI-000FdLC; Sat, 9 Sep 95 15:47 CDT Message-Id: From: dattier@wwa.com (David W. Tamkin) Subject: This is rich ... To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 15:47:33 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1200 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Mail from postmaster tells me that postmaster is a bad address, but if I have further questions, I should write to postmaster: From krypton.ucs.indiana.edu!postmaster Sat Sep 9 15:18:35 1995 Return-Path: [Received: headers deleted] From: Mail Delivery System To: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 95 15:16:20 EST5 Subject: Delivery failure notification Message-Id: With reference to your message with the subject: "Re: Delivery failure notification" One or more addresses in your message have failed with the following responses from the mail transport system: Error getting mailbox information for postmaster. Should you need assistance, please mail postmaster@krypton.ucs.indiana.edu. -------------------- Returned message follows --------------------- [copy of my letter followed] That is fodder for a lifetime of Hoosier jokes. David W. Tamkin dattier@wwa.com MCI Mail: 426-1818 "When lutefisk is outlawed, only outlaws will have lutefisk." -- bumper sticker I saw on a Nova From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 10 12:30:18 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id MAA09647 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:18:29 -0700 Received: from sunic.sunet.se (sunic.sunet.se [192.36.125.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id MAA09640 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:18:25 -0700 Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.8/2.03) id VAA24513; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:17:02 +0200 Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA15848; Sun, 10 Sep 95 21:17:00 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 21:17:00 +0200 Message-Id: <9509101917.AA15848@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> From: Per Starback To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Deleting stuff from archives Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Suppose you have a mailing list and archive all messages sent to it and make them publically available. How would you react if some people want you to remove some messages they have written from the archives? On the one hand I don't like the idea of playing the USSR and changing the history by changing the records. I see the archives somewhat like the back issues of a magazine, or the library copies of it, and I certainly don't want to cut out things from them. On the other hand it's their texts. Why would I go on spreading it if they don't want it? That seems antisocial and maybe it's a copyright issue at that. Does anyone have any enlightening comments that will make me see the light (even though I of course realize that in the end I'll have to make my own decisions on how to react). -- " Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback@minsk.docs.uu.se From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 10 14:02:42 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id OAA11160 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 14:00:34 -0700 Received: from SYSWRK.UCIS.Dal.Ca (syswrk.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.2.108]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id OAA11153 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 14:00:30 -0700 Received: from AC.Dal.Ca by SYSWRK.UCIS.DAL.CA (PMDF V4.3-13 #6307) id <01HV4BH87PDS000VFM@SYSWRK.UCIS.DAL.CA>; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 17:47:44 -0400 Received: from biome.bio.dfo.ca ("port 3476"@biome.BIO.dfo.ca) by AC.DAL.CA (PMDF V4.3-13 #6307) id <01HV4BGCYGB400KEO6@AC.DAL.CA>; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 17:47:03 -0300 Received: by biome.bio.dfo.ca (931110.SGI/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) for @ac.dal.ca:List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM id AA15297; Sun, 10 Sep 95 17:45:26 -0300 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 17:45:25 -0300 (ADT) From: bill@biome.bio.dfo.ca (Bill Silvert) Subject: Deleting stuff from archives To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM (List Managers) Message-id: <9509102045.AA15297@biome.bio.dfo.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-length: 2768 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Per Starback poses a very good question: >Suppose you have a mailing list and archive all messages sent to it >and make them publically available. How would you react if some >people want you to remove some messages they have written from the >archives? On the one hand I don't like the idea of playing the USSR >and changing the history by changing the records. I see the archives >somewhat like the back issues of a magazine, or the library copies of >it, and I certainly don't want to cut out things from them. > >On the other hand it's their texts. Why would I go on spreading it if >they don't want it? That seems antisocial and maybe it's a copyright >issue at that. > >Does anyone have any enlightening comments that will make me see the >light (even though I of course realize that in the end I'll have to >make my own decisions on how to react). One possible policy is to archive everything unconditionally and delete nothing (except possibly to satisfy legal requirements, by getting rid of libelous material, pirated software, etc.). That seems a bit drastic. I routinely delete material that is out of date (like old seminar announcements) and material that sneaks past the administrivia filters, like announcements of bounced messages. But I try to err on the side of conservation; for example, there are a couple of people who like to post insulting messages about me on a list I run, and I don't delete that sort of thing. I've also had people insist that I delete comments about them from the archives, and so long as the comments are "fair comment" and not just gratuitous insults I refuse to do so. It can happen that someone posts something that is wrong and wants to retract it. If the publication were printed, you wouldn't go around to libraries and cut it out of the journals, would you? There are better ways to handle retractions. On the other hand, if someone posts something that contains errors and immediately reposts a corrected version, it may be best to delete the incorrect version. It seems to me that there are no hard and fast rules, although each list can set its own policy on this. In the lack of a firm policy I think you have to show some degree of flexibility. However, I think that there should always be a clear philosophy behind the way a list is run. Is it or is it not subject to censorship, for example? If you agree not to censor the list, then it might be a good idea to backup items that get deleted and restore them if the action is questioned. Bill Silvert -- Bill Silvert, Habitat Ecology Section, Habitat Science Division Bedford Institute of Oceanography, P. O. Box 1006 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2 HED runs a WWW server at URL=http://hed.bio.dfo.ca From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 10 22:00:10 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id VAA20082 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:59:52 -0700 Received: from [198.102.244.42] (pb520.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.42]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id VAA20075 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:59:47 -0700 X-Sender: brent@miles.greatcircle.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:59:14 -0800 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM (List Managers) From: Brent@GreatCircle.COM (Brent Chapman) Subject: Re: Deleting stuff from archives Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 5:45 PM 9/10/95, Bill Silvert wrote: >Per Starback poses a very good question: > >>Suppose you have a mailing list and archive all messages sent to it >>and make them publically available. How would you react if some >>people want you to remove some messages they have written from the >>archives? > >One possible policy is to archive everything unconditionally and delete >nothing (except possibly to satisfy legal requirements, by getting rid >of libelous material, pirated software, etc.). This is essentially the policy that we follow with Firewalls, List-Managers, and the other lists here at GreatCircle.COM. If I "delete" something from the archives, I usually delete just the body of the message (and if possible, just the offending part of the body), replacing it with a note stating what has been deleted from the archive and why. I always keep a (not publicly accessible) copy of the original message. -Brent -- Brent Chapman | Great Circle Associates | For Firewalls Tutorial info: Brent@GreatCircle.COM | 1057 West Dana Street | Tutorial-Info@GreatCircle.COM +1 415 962 0841 | Mountain View, CA 94041 | http://www.greatcircle.com From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 11 05:30:19 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id FAA26601 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 05:12:21 -0700 Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id FAA26594 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 05:12:15 -0700 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (1232@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id ; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 14:10:52 +0200 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 14:10:51 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 14:10:51 +0200 Message-Id: <199509111210.15089.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> To: dattier@wwa.com CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-reply-to: (dattier@wwa.com) Subject: Re: This is rich ... Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk [David W. Tamkin] | Mail from postmaster tells me that postmaster is a bad address, | but if I have further questions, I should write to postmaster: This is not so unusual. I usually step up a level or two in the domain (checking first that they don't have the same MX), that would be postmaster@indiana.edu in this case. unix$ host -t mx krypton.ucs.indiana.edu krypton.ucs.indiana.edu mail is handled (pri=0) by mail-relay.indiana.edu krypton.ucs.indiana.edu mail is handled (pri=10) by krypton.ucs.indiana.edu unix$ host -t mx indiana.edu indiana.edu mail is handled (pri=0) by mail-relay.indiana.edu In this case, I would guess that mail-relay was down/inaccessible for some period, and the local delivery on each machine was broken. Nevertheless, if that second mail also fails, I look up the technical contact in the whois-database. (To query non-American sites, use whois -h whois.ripe.net) unix$ whois indiana.edu Indiana University (INDIANA-DOM) INDIANA.EDU Indiana University (VITA1) IUGATE.UCS.INDIANA.EDU 129.79.1.9 unix$ whois vita1 Indiana University (VITA1) Hostname: IUGATE.UCS.INDIANA.EDU Nicknames: INDIANA.EDU Address: 129.79.1.9 System: MICROVAX-II running ULTRIX Coordinator: Williams, James G. (JGW4) william@INDIANA.EDU (812) 855-5742 domain server Record last updated on 15-Nov-89. Uhm! Let's hope it's still valid. Kjetil T. From list-managers-owner Tue Sep 12 06:00:09 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id FAA02788 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 05:57:24 -0700 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id FAA02781 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 05:57:21 -0700 From: PMDAtropos@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA22119; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 08:55:16 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 08:55:16 -0400 Message-ID: <950912085515_97328391@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com, lstown-l@searn.sunet.se Subject: AOL Mail Hardware Problem Update Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk FYI: Our mail gateway is continuing to experience the hardware problems reported to me last week; however, three additional machines are being installed this week to help balance the back-to-school mail load. Thank you for your patience while we deal with this situation. --David O'Donnell (atropos@aol.net, PMDAtropos@aol.com) From list-managers-owner Tue Sep 12 17:00:27 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id QAA27855 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:55:46 -0700 Received: from sgi.sgi.com (SGI.COM [192.48.153.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id QAA27848 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:55:40 -0700 Received: from sgihub.corp.sgi.com by sgi.sgi.com via ESMTP (950405.SGI.8.6.12/910110.SGI) for <@sgi.sgi.com:List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM> id QAA12409; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:53:50 -0700 Received: from kahuna.studio.sgi.com by sgihub.corp.sgi.com via ESMTP (950511.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH526/911001.SGI) for <@sgi.sgi.com:List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM> id QAA21865; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:53:40 -0700 Received: by kahuna.studio.sgi.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) for List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM id QAA10734; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:48:34 -0700 From: "Mike Keeler" Message-Id: <9509121648.ZM10732@kahuna.studio.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:48:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Advice on customized mailing list manager? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Greetings, I'm looking for some information on supporting a customized electonic newsletter and wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction. We want to let subscribers choose various topics of interest, then daily compose a newsletter for them based on their profile and send it out. Does anyone know of a mailing list manager that can handle this kind of function, or is there a some kind of combo database-list manager program out there? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Keeler (and please respond directly, I'm not currently subscribed to this list...) -- Mike Keeler keeler@sgi.com 415.390.5021 From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 13 13:00:34 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id MAA04518 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 12:56:54 -0700 Received: from usis.com (usis.com [199.171.178.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id MAA04511 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 12:56:51 -0700 Received: from usis.com.usis.com (siberia.usis.com [199.171.178.71]) by usis.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA03962 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:58:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199509131958.OAA03962@usis.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Miss Demeanor" Organization: usis To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:55:35 +0000 Subject: Urgent problem - need advice Reply-to: siberia@usis.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Has anyone ever had experience with a list member sending posts containing "vague" references to committing suicide? This person is a member of AOL. Should I call AOL and explain the problem....is there someone there I can email? I am VERY concerned as I feel that this was a sincere post made by a long time member of one of my lists. Help! Any advice appreciated. Namaste' Kimberly Long siberia@usis.com From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 13 14:00:31 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id NAA06379 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:48:08 -0700 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uumail3.netcom.com [163.179.3.53]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id NAA06372 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:48:05 -0700 Received: from znyx.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with SMTP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id NAA19134; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:43:20 -0700 Received: from alan.znyx.com by znyx.com (5.65/1.35) id AA03101; Wed, 13 Sep 95 13:26:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 13:26:54 -0700 Message-Id: <9509132026.AA03101@znyx.com> X-Sender: alan@znyx.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: alan@znyx.com (Alan Deikman) Subject: Re: Urgent problem - need advice Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Kimberly Long wrote: >Has anyone ever had experience with a list member sending posts >containing "vague" references to committing suicide? > >This person is a member of AOL. Should I call AOL and explain the >problem....is there someone there I can email? I am VERY concerned >as I feel that this was a sincere post made by a long time member of >one of my lists. Help! Any advice appreciated. If this person is a member of your list and has posted, check the signature and post for any address information. If not, you at least have the e-mail address. Get in contact with a local suicide crisis hotline (the 800 number is in the phone book -- never used it personally) and ask their advice with what information you have. If they don't have e-mail capability I would offer to send a message on their behalf. At this point, you have done as much as you can do. From what I have been told, if someone is asking for help they will give you the tools to help them one way or another. If your AOLer cannot be lured out, either it was a momentary fit or there is nothing you can do for them. I hope this thread does not generate a stream of half-witted gags about AOL and whatever. What is the subject for your list, anyway? Is suicide or psychological problems part of the normal conversation? Good luck, Kimberly, -------------------------------- Alan Deikman, ZNYX Corporation alan@znyx.com From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 13 15:00:55 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id OAA08371 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:56:16 -0700 Received: from usis.com (usis.com [199.171.178.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id OAA08362 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:56:12 -0700 Received: from usis.com.usis.com (siberia.usis.com [199.171.178.71]) by usis.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA08255 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 16:57:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199509132157.QAA08255@usis.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Miss Demeanor" Organization: usis To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 16:54:45 +0000 Subject: Re: Urgent problem - need advice Reply-to: siberia@usis.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On 13 Sep 95 at 13:26, Alan Deikman wrote: > If this person is a member of your list and has posted, check the > signature and post for any address information. If not, you at least > have the e-mail address. Get in contact with a local suicide crisis > hotline (the 800 number is in the phone book -- never used it personally) > and ask their advice with what information you have. If they don't > have e-mail capability I would offer to send a message on their > behalf. Sadly, there is not any info in the persons sig file. I have posted the national hotline # to this person as well as my own phone # in hopes that she will reach out to me. > [...] > I hope this thread does not generate a stream of half-witted gags > about AOL and whatever. As do I. The fact that she is a member of AOL does not pertain to the situation at hand. > What is the subject for your list, anyway? Is suicide or psychological > problems part of the normal conversation? The list is about women's spirituality. We are a rather close-knit group. Members are required after a short trial-run to join the off-line organization. Thus, I do have the woman's name, address but alas no phone #. Suicide has never been discussed but we do get into psychological problems. Generally, it is a rather upbeat list. The member in question has been a part of our group for over 7 months. She suddenly went from actively participating to complete silence about a week ago....then today's postings arrived. All I can say is that the threat is very real and I am very scared. > Good luck, Kimberly, Thank you Alan. Namaste' Kimberly Long siberia@usis.com From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 13 19:30:00 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id TAA17376 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:10:25 -0700 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp5.netcom.com [163.179.3.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id TAA17369 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:10:22 -0700 Received: from duke.sagarmatha.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id SAA19828; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 18:55:59 -0700 Received: by duke (Smail3.1.28.1 #64) id m0st3R3-000gmyC; Wed, 13 Sep 95 18:49 PDT Message-Id: From: james@sagarmatha.com (James C. Armstrong) Subject: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 18:49:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1084 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I maintain a few mailing lists, and this header recently came across on one of them. Note the dates: It is an eight month delay in processing the message. Based on the content, I know if wasn't a bad date on the sending machine, either, since the content was relevant then, and the sender left compuserve six months ago... => => Received: by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) => => id GAA19620; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 06:44:01 -0700 => => Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by mail5.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) => => id VAA11370; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:43:18 -0700 => => Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) => => id AAA01603; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 00:45:12 -0400 => => Date: 02 Dec 94 16:10:16 EDT => => Message-ID: <941202201016_100420.3100_BHG104-1@CompuServe.COM> -- James C. Armstrong, Jr. | Women sense my power james@sagarmatha.com | and seek my life essense. | I do not avoid women | But I do deny them my essense. URL: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jc/jca/homepage.html From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 13 20:00:02 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id TAA18147 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:45:07 -0700 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uumail2.netcom.com [163.179.3.52]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id TAA18134 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:45:03 -0700 Received: from znyx.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with SMTP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id TAA04312; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:40:48 -0700 Received: from alan.znyx.com by znyx.com (5.65/1.35) id AA08568; Wed, 13 Sep 95 19:32:43 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 19:32:43 -0700 Message-Id: <9509140232.AA08568@znyx.com> X-Sender: alan@znyx.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: alan@znyx.com (Alan Deikman) Subject: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >... and the sender left compuserve six >months ago... When I think of the legacy equipment and software that Compuserve subsists on, it seems surprising that they can communciate with the Internet at all. But that's gotta be a record. >James C. Armstrong, Jr. | Women sense my power >james@sagarmatha.com | and seek my life essense. > | I do not avoid women > | But I do deny them my essense. If I recall correctly, I think the above quote should be "the life essence," not "my life essense." It's been some years, I could be wrong. Regards, -------------------------------- Alan Deikman, ZNYX Corporation alan@znyx.com From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 13 20:02:43 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id TAA18090 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:43:07 -0700 Received: from chinacat.unicom.com (chinacat.unicom.com [192.108.105.34]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id TAA18080 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:43:01 -0700 Received: (from chip@localhost) by chinacat.unicom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA03395; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:40:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Chip Rosenthal Message-Id: <199509140240.VAA03395@chinacat.unicom.com> Subject: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! To: james@sagarmatha.com (James C. Armstrong) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:40:17 -0500 (CDT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: from "James C. Armstrong" at Sep 13, 1995 06:49:53 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0a7] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk James C. Armstrong writes: > I maintain a few mailing lists, and this header recently came > across on one of them. Note the dates: It is an eight month > delay in processing the message. Note that Compuserve is in the midst of a major mail meltdown. I suspect that either they are starting to return, and this message was a regurgitated repeat -- or it got lost in some spool directory somewhere and the mailer just encountered it. -- Chip Rosenthal Ban excessive reposts: /^X-Mailer: Mozilla/h:j Unicom Systems Development For a good time: http://www.unicom.com/john-hiatt/ PGP key: http://www.unicom.com/personal/chip.html From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 13 22:01:02 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id VAA22326 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:53:46 -0700 Received: from SACWMS.MP.USBR.GOV (sacwms.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.9]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id VAA22319 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:53:39 -0700 Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.1 VAX) id 25; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:52:07 PDT Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:52:05 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: james@sagarmatha.com CC: list-managers@GreatCircle.com, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009965AB.A1184448.25@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: RE: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"james@sagarmatha.com" 13-SEP-1995 19:32:33.33 > Subj: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! > I maintain a few mailing lists, and this header recently came > across on one of them. Note the dates: It is an eight month > delay in processing the message. Based on the content, I know > if wasn't a bad date on the sending machine, either, since the > content was relevant then, and the sender left compuserve six > months ago... > > > > => => Received: by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) > => => id GAA19620; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 06:44:01 -0700 > => => Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by mail5.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) > => => id VAA11370; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:43:18 -0700 > => => Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) > => => id AAA01603; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 00:45:12 -0400 > => => Date: 02 Dec 94 16:10:16 EDT > => => Message-ID: <941202201016_100420.3100_BHG104-1@CompuServe.COM> > > -- > James C. Armstrong, Jr. | Women sense my power > james@sagarmatha.com | and seek my life essense. > | I do not avoid women > | But I do deny them my essense. > URL: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/jc/jca/homepage.html James, It happens. Every once in a while I find the mailer on one of our hosts has crashed and left a lot of messages undelivered. SO I unlock them and send them on their way. Better late than never... Actually I take my responsibility as postmaster very seriously and try to assure that this doesn't happen. -HWM From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 06:30:04 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id GAA04312 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 06:21:23 -0700 Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com (emout05.mail.aol.com [198.81.10.37]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id GAA04304 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 06:21:20 -0700 From: PMDAtropos@aol.com Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA06932; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 09:20:05 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 09:20:05 -0400 Message-ID: <950914092004_99243277@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: siberia@usis.com cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Urgent problem - need advice Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In a message dated 95-09-13 16:32:24 EDT, siberia@usis.com (Miss Demeanor) writes: >Has anyone ever had experience with a list member sending posts >containing "vague" references to committing suicide? > >This person is a member of AOL. Should I call AOL and explain the >problem....is there someone there I can email? I am VERY concerned >as I feel that this was a sincere post made by a long time member of >one of my lists. Help! Any advice appreciated. About five years ago, one of the members of one of my lists -did- commit suicide. There was no clear warning. It was a loss felt by everyone on the list, but I honestly don't think there was anything we could have done. If you can determine the region where your subscriber lives, you may wish to try contacting a suicide hotline or similar organization in the area -- they are likely to have more resources and may be able to give you specific information or help. With regard to contacting AOL for information, I'm your best bet. I would, however, be limited to supplying only whatever data the member has chosen to make public. Anything more would require a subpoena. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but that's the way things are. -- __ David B. O'Donnell (atropos@aol.net, PMDAtropos@aol.com) \/ AOL Internet Feedback/Response/Information Team Manager Tel. +1 703/448-8700 x3725 - FAX +1 703/883-1514 Belief-L, GLB-News -Press -Discuss, SoftRevu List Owner/Editor http://www.cais.com/atropos/ - "The spam stops here." From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 06:34:07 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id GAA04633 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 06:32:22 -0700 Received: from dorite1.iquest.net (dorite1.iquest.net [198.70.36.70]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id GAA04626 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 06:32:19 -0700 Received: from ts03-ind-11.iquest.net by dorite1.iquest.net with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #16) id m0stENY-000636C; Thu, 14 Sep 95 08:31 EST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 08:31 EST X-Sender: amys@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Chip Rosenthal , james@sagarmatha.com (James C. Armstrong) From: amys@iquest.net (Amy Stinson) Subject: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 09:40 PM 9/13/95 -0500, Chip Rosenthal wrote: >Note that Compuserve is in the midst of a major mail meltdown. I >suspect that either they are starting to return, and this message >was a regurgitated repeat -- or it got lost in some spool directory >somewhere and the mailer just encountered it. I don't know the nature of the problem, but it's causing some headaches for me. Compuserve is adding machine domains to all outgoing which affects subscriptions (which are trickling in at a rate of 2 or 3 per day since the rate change). Some mail gateway were also adding them to incoming which would make them bounce back to me. I'd get this message from the Electronic Postmaster "advising" me how to address Compuserve mail everytime something would not go through. Amy Amy Stinson *** amys@iquest.net -coListowner Mknit To subscribe to MKNIT send email to Majordomo@ancor.com In the body put: Subscrib mknit or Subscribe mknit-digest Personal Page: http://www.iquest.net/~amys/ Phone (317)889-1721 H (317)885-6589 B (317)885-1741 data/fax From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 08:00:43 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id HAA08407 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 07:50:34 -0700 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (searn.sunet.se [192.36.125.4]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id HAA08400 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 07:50:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199509141450.HAA08400@miles.greatcircle.com> Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3523; Thu, 14 Sep 95 16:48:56 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin ERIC@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with RFC822 id 0184; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 16:48:56 +0200 Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 16:46:21 +0200 From: Eric Thomas Subject: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 13 Sep 95 19:32:43 -0700 from list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Sep 95 19:32:43 -0700 Alan Deikman said: >When I think of the legacy equipment and software that Compuserve >subsists on, it seems surprising that they can communciate with the >Internet at all. But that's gotta be a record. Damn. I could have *sworn* it said BSDi when I did telnet compuserve.com. Also, I could have *sworn* that the largest mail server in the Internet was running on "legacy" hardware and that it beat sendmail pants down on turnaround time, overall performance, support costs *and* hardware costs (for the workload being considered). Eric From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 09:30:16 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id JAA13454 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 09:28:59 -0700 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu (maroon.tc.umn.edu [128.101.118.21]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id JAA13447 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 09:28:54 -0700 Received: from dialup-5-125.gw.umn.edu by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Thu, 14 Sep 95 11:27:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 11:10:55 CST From: "Fred H Olson WB0YQM" Message-Id: <53314.fholson@maroon.tc.umn.edu> X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_18A Reply-To: Fred H Olson X-POPMail-Charset: English To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Listproc vs Majordomo comments requested Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk My list will be moving to a new site in the next few months. It has been on Listproc version 6.0 . The fellow at the new site is reluctant to set up Listproc because of some configuration problems he encountered on his first attempt. So he is considering going with Majordomo instead. As is often the case, I suspect people prefer that with which they are familiar (Mac users prefer Macs and PC users prefer PCs) so ... I would be interested in comments from people who have used both Majordomo and Listproc as to the relative merits. I'll summarize and post if people email me directly. As a list manager (by email) I'd be particularly provisions for ease of manage by email - unsubscribing or changing problem subscriptions etc, adequacy of error messages, etc. My list has about 500 subscribers and around 300 messages per month. We run in a mode that requires posters to the list to be subscribers. (posts from non subscribers are rejected to the list manager) to minimize the distribution of spams and returned bounce messages etc. Fred -- Fred H. Olson fholson@uci.com (612)588-9532 Amateur radio: WB0YQM 1221 Russell Av N, Minneapolis,MN 55411 Sysop of COHOUSING-L listserv; COHOUSING URL's: mailto://listserv@uci.com (w/ msg: Info Cohousing-L) gopher://gopher.uci.com/ Twin Cities FREENET is in PUBLIC TEST PHASE URL's: mailto://info@freenet.msp.mn.us http://freenet.msp.mn.us/ From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 11:01:19 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id KAA17190 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:34:33 -0700 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uumail2.netcom.com [163.179.3.52]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id KAA17183 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:34:28 -0700 Received: from znyx.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with SMTP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id KAA15767; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:30:13 -0700 Received: from alan.znyx.com by znyx.com (5.65/1.35) id AA14156; Thu, 14 Sep 95 10:22:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 10:22:19 -0700 Message-Id: <9509141722.AA14156@znyx.com> X-Sender: alan@znyx.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GREATCIRCLE.COM From: alan@znyx.com (Alan Deikman) Subject: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Eric said: >Damn. I could have *sworn* it said BSDi when I did telnet compuserve.com. >Also, I could have *sworn* that the largest mail server in the Internet >was running on "legacy" hardware and that it beat sendmail pants down on >turnaround time, overall performance, support costs *and* hardware costs >(for the workload being considered). Ooo. Touchy-touchy on this subject, are we? The last glossy promo piece I had received from dear old Compuserve showed piles and piles of DEC PDP-10 vintage hardware. And their character based user interface (not WIN-CIM, which is what I use) is virtually unusable it is so primitive. No doubt Compuserve has a forward looking evolution plan in process, mixing in 1990s technology as they go. They would be insane not to. But they still have a lot of non-UNIX infrastructure to support, and that is all I was commenting on. I admire them for being able to do it, that's all. Take a pill, will you? -------------------------------- Alan Deikman, ZNYX Corporation alan@znyx.com From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 12:02:49 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id LAA21223 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:53:07 -0700 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (searn.sunet.se [192.36.125.4]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id LAA21209 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:52:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199509141852.LAA21209@miles.greatcircle.com> Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5400; Thu, 14 Sep 95 20:51:49 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin ERIC@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with RFC822 id 4340; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 20:51:49 +0200 Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 20:20:38 +0200 From: Eric Thomas Subject: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! To: list-managers@GREATCIRCLE.COM, Alan Deikman In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 14 Sep 95 10:22:19 -0700 from list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Sep 95 10:22:19 -0700 Alan Deikman said: >Ooo. Touchy-touchy on this subject, are we? Actually, it's technical inaccuracies that annoy me so much. See, the problem CompuServe is having is due to having registered too many IP addresses for COMPUSERVE.COM. This blew up a number of MTAs that use static buffers and whose authors felt 5 or whatever was a "reasonable" limit. There may also have been other problems, but that's the one that has hit them the hardest and it was caused by an addition of *unix* systems running on (I assume, because this was all done to increase their mail capacity) *brand new* hardware. The PDP 10s, whatever other ailments they may be afflicted with, were not involved. So, yes, it annoyed me to see a problem caused by brand new unix boxes blamed on "legacy" hardware that wasn't even involved. Especially as this seemed to be the only point in your posting :-) >The last glossy promo piece I had received from dear old Compuserve >showed piles and piles of DEC PDP-10 vintage hardware. I'd be the first to agree that these machines are too old to be used for a business critical application, especially as their vendor doesn't support them any longer. I wouldn't buy stock in a company that used them in this fashion. But, like I said, they weren't involved. Finally, I don't know the details of CompuServe's operations, but I do know that AOL delivers about 1 million SMTP messages a day, and it's a reasonable assumption that CompuServe is in the same ballpark. You can buy a (brand new) "legacy" system for under $75k (fully configured) that can handle that much mail, with a comfortable safety margin. And, if you don't want to depend on a single machine for anything, you can just buy a second one. $150k may be a lot for a university, but for CompuServe it's peanuts. Of course they may have their own reasons to prefer a PC farm and I'm not trying to say that they don't know what they're doing, because I don't have the raw data to pass judgment on them. I'm just pointing out that with such a "legacy" solution there would have been only 2 IP addresses and the problem wouldn't have arised. So, all in all, this wasn't a "legacy vs unix" problem, this was a problem that had nothing to do with the type of system being used. Eric From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 12:30:56 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id MAA23013 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 12:28:53 -0700 Received: from cesium.clock.org (cesium.clock.org [17.255.4.43]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id MAA23006 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 12:28:50 -0700 Received: by cesium.clock.org with SMTP id <6344>; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 12:27:31 -0700 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Sep 1995 07:46:21 PDT." <199509141450.HAA08400@miles.greatcircle.com> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 12:27:13 -0700 From: Jean Marie Diaz Message-Id: <95Sep14.122731pdt.6344@cesium.clock.org> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At least part of compuserve.com's problems in the past week were attributable to DNS queries for compuserve.com returning packets that were over the legal size limit. (This has since been fixed, as far as I can tell.) Lots of old sendmails (not to mention tools like nslookup) were dumping core on that one. AMBAR From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 12:32:44 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id MAA22573 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 12:18:22 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id MAA22559 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 12:18:10 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA02356 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Thu, 14 Sep 1995 14:06:57 -0500 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA18993 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:50:09 -0500 From: ranger@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199509141650.LAA18993@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Bother! w/ Peter Dennis (fwd) To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:50:09 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1979 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here's one that might be going around. Note the name of the performance that's being promoted.... > From mheld@harper.cc.il.us Thu Sep 14 11:33:06 1995 > Message-Id: <9509141603.AA08820@harper.cc.il.us> > Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:10:51 -0500 > X-Sender: mheld@ad_mail.harper.cc.il.us > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > To: ranger-list-request@taronga.com > From: mheld@harper.cc.il.us (Michael C. Held) > Subject: Bother! w/ Peter Dennis > > Please forward to interested lists: > > >Peter Dennis is an actor who does readings from the works of A.A. Milne. > >He is appearing at Harper College in Palatine, Illinois, USA and > >we are having some trouble selling tickets. We would really > >appreciate any help you could give in getting the word out about > >this wonderful performance. I've seen him perform and he does > >an incredible job of honoring Milne, Pooh, and Co. The specific > >details are: > > > >Peter Dennis and Harper College Presents > > > >BOTHER! > > > >Readings from the Stories and Verses of Winnie-the-Pooh by > >A.A. Milne > >Thursday, September 28 > >7:30 p.m., Building J Theater > >(on the campus of Harper College, 1200 W. Algonquin Road, > >Palatine, Illinois, USA. Palatine is a suburb 30 miles northwest > >of Chicago) > >Tickets are: $8.00 for the general public, > >$7.00 for students, $6.00 for Harper students > > > >For more information or tickets contact the Harper College > >Box Office at: > >708-925-6100 > > > >They don't have e-mail but if you have questions contact > >Mike at mheld@harper.cc.il.us > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Michael C. Held mheld@harper.cc.il.us > Coordinator Voice: (708) 925-6501 > Registration and Information Fax: (708) 925-6032 > William Rainey Harper College > 1200 West Algonquin Road > Palatine, Illinois, 60067-7398 > > From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 14 23:02:44 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id XAA23433 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:01:40 -0700 Received: from sacusr.mp.usbr.gov (sacusr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id XAA23425 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:01:33 -0700 Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.1 VAX) id 3; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:00:26 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:59:55 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: amys@iquest.net CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <0099667E.45CD7A76.3@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"amys@iquest.net" 14-SEP-1995 06:55:22.01 > Subj: Re: Incredible Delay on mail forwarding! > At 09:40 PM 9/13/95 -0500, Chip Rosenthal wrote: > > >Note that Compuserve is in the midst of a major mail meltdown. I > >suspect that either they are starting to return, and this message > >was a regurgitated repeat -- or it got lost in some spool directory > >somewhere and the mailer just encountered it. > > I don't know the nature of the problem, but it's causing some headaches for > me. Compuserve is adding machine domains to all outgoing which affects > subscriptions (which are trickling in at a rate of 2 or 3 per day since the > rate change). Some mail gateway were also adding them to incoming which > would make them bounce back to me. I'd get this message from the Electronic > Postmaster "advising" me how to address Compuserve mail everytime something > would not go through. > Well, I can beat this - I've been getting bounced messages from postmaster@compuserve.com advising me that there was a gateway problem or some such nonsense, so I sent it back to postmaster asking the nature of the problem. Guess what? "No such user as postmaster..." Sigh... > Amy > > > Amy Stinson *** amys@iquest.net -coListowner Mknit > > To subscribe to MKNIT send email to Majordomo@ancor.com > In the body put: Subscrib mknit or Subscribe mknit-digest > > Personal Page: http://www.iquest.net/~amys/ > > Phone (317)889-1721 H (317)885-6589 B (317)885-1741 data/fax > > -HWM From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 17 11:32:46 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id LAA23158 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:32:06 -0700 Received: from tortoise.oise.on.ca (tortoise.oise.on.ca [192.75.177.236]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id LAA23151 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:32:02 -0700 Received: by tortoise.oise.on.ca (5.0/SMI-SVR4 (rsm940906)) id AA03243; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:30:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:30:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Avi Hyman, CSG" To: Michelle Dick Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: mailto: (and phony addresses) In-Reply-To: <199509081145.AA11671@bolero.rahul.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII content-length: 1220 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I appreciate Michelle's distaste for subscription requests sent via mailto: I've made an effort to have one of my personal e-mail addresses propagated as the contact address for any of my lists (I do this since I verify every subscription anyway and therefore have to deal with the list software directly whether or not the subscription request comes via the software or as personal e-mail). For me the bigger problem are the c-punks who think it is funny to use Netscape's mailer to subscribe to lists using phony addresses (or ones they want to have spammed with list mail). I catch most of them, and a list managers list I am on will often send out a warning about a bogus address, but frankly, I find it very annoying - has anyone else dealt with this issue? Avi > ____________________________________________________________________ < > Avi Hyman, Communication Systems Specialist ahyman@oise.on.ca < > Ontario Institute for Studies in Education fax: 416-926-4747 < > 252 Bloor St.W, Toronto, Ont. M5S 1V6 ph: 416-923-6641 ext.2763 < > Computing Services Group, 3rd Floor http://www.oise.on.ca/~ahyman < > ____________________________________________________________________ < From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 17 16:32:46 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id QAA27594 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:32:06 -0700 Received: from access2.digex.net (access2.digex.net [205.197.245.193]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id QAA27587 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:32:03 -0700 Received: (from asgilman@localhost) by access2.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA12308 ; for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:30:50 -0400 From: Al Gilman Message-Id: <199509172330.TAA12308@access2.digex.net> Subject: Re: mailto: (and phony addresses) To: ahyman@oise.on.ca (Avi Hyman CSG) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: from "Avi Hyman, CSG" at Sep 17, 95 02:30:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 341 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I don't have proof for any of these cases, but I have helped enough newbies escape from the lynx-dev list who claim they don't know how they got on that I think it has been borrowed from time to time as a mail-bomb by pranksters. [I don't administer the list; I just pick up strays along the infobahn.] Al Gilman asgilman@access.digex.net From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 17 17:00:04 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id QAA28271 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:58:25 -0700 Received: from sacusr.mp.usbr.gov (sacusr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id QAA28264 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:58:22 -0700 Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.1 VAX) id 9; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:57:00 PDT Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:56:57 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: ahyman@oise.on.ca CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009968A7.103E5116.9@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: mailto: (and phony addresses) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"ahyman@oise.on.ca" 17-SEP-1995 11:38:50.87 > Subj: Re: mailto: (and phony addresses) > I appreciate Michelle's distaste for subscription requests sent via mailto: > I've made an effort to have one of my personal e-mail addresses > propagated as the contact address for any of my lists (I do this since I > verify every subscription anyway and therefore have to deal with the > list software directly whether or not the subscription request comes via > the software or as personal e-mail). > > For me the bigger problem are the c-punks who think it is funny to use > Netscape's mailer to subscribe to lists using phony addresses (or ones > they want to have spammed with list mail). I catch most of them, and a > list managers list I am on will often send out a warning about a bogus > address, but frankly, I find it very annoying - has anyone else dealt > with this issue? > > Avi > I've not looked into this technical issue yet, but I wonder if it is possible to use the Auth daemon to get confirmation of a user's remote address? -HWM From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 17 17:30:07 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id RAA28571 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:07:36 -0700 Received: from Tandem1.opennet.net.au (server1.opennet.net.au [203.5.208.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id RAA28562 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:07:30 -0700 Received: (from reagan@localhost) by Tandem1.opennet.net.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA08374; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:13:52 +1100 From: "Reagan Blundell" Message-Id: <9509181013.ZM8371@Tandem1.opennet.net.au> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:13:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Henry W. Miller" "Re: mailto: (and phony addresses)" (Sep 17, 4:56pm) References: <009968A7.103E5116.9@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: "Henry W. Miller" , ahyman@oise.on.ca Subject: Re: mailto: (and phony addresses) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sep 17, 4:56pm, Henry W. Miller wrote: > > I've not looked into this technical issue yet, but I wonder > if it is possible to use the Auth daemon to get confirmation of a > user's remote address? > > -HWM Thats all fine if they are on a multi-user system which supports such things. What happens if they are using a TCP/IP stack on their windows machine? -- Reagan Blundell "In the Temple of Love you hide together Beleiving pain and fear outside" - SOM. Unix Guru and Phone (mobile): 015 657 366 These opinions are all.round.nice.guy Phone (work): 07 34055758 mine and mine only From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 17 17:32:03 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id RAA28598 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:07:46 -0700 Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id RAA28582 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:07:42 -0700 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA27045 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:06:32 -0700 Received: by bolero.rahul.net id AA25947 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:06:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199509180006.AA25947@bolero.rahul.net> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: mailto: (and phony addresses) In-Reply-To: <199509172330.TAA12308@access2.digex.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 95 17:06:31 -0700 From: Michelle Dick Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Al wrote: > I don't have proof for any of these cases, but I have helped > enough newbies escape from the lynx-dev list who claim they don't > know how they got on that I think it has been borrowed from time > to time as a mail-bomb by pranksters. That happens. Worse, I had one prankster try to subscribe another mailing list to my high-volume list. At the time I was operating the list totally manually and caught it before damage was done. As more and more mailing list prohibit outside posting, this type of prank won't be successful even if the subscribe is done. Incidently, I think the prankster then tried to set up an auto-forward from my list to the one he wanted to bother. Naturally, the mail headers told the true tale and I only heard 3rd-hand about the problem. -- Michelle Dick artemis@rahul.net East Palo Alto, CA Owner, FATFREE Vegetarian Mailing List http://www.fatfree.com From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 17 19:30:10 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id TAA00622 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:03:53 -0700 Received: from Thinkage.On.CA (thinkage.thinkage.on.ca [192.102.11.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id TAA00615 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:03:49 -0700 Received: (kgdykes@localhost) by thinkage (8.6.10(.4)/Thinkage950227) id WAA20834; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 22:02:58 -0400 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 22:02:58 -0400 From: Ken Dykes Message-Id: <199509180202.WAA20834@Thinkage.On.CA> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: evil-doer or incompetent software? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk i'm getting a lot of the following. all the 'victims' are different, most of them valid addresses, some like Psychosis do not exist. (although the ones that do not exist i suspect are an effect of an entirely different irritation - namely that of dynamic IP (ppp/slip) access creating pseudo workstation names like ppp17.site.domain. user@ppp17 does not exist, but user@site does) back to what i started writing about, the following is either a forgery/bombing (i'm getting several a day this last week) or some "easy to use how to subscribe to mailing lists" interface that is badly written. note that the Recived comes allegedly from UPENN, via LUTH.SE for a user that is on neither. LUTH.SE appears to be inserting the Message-ID and Apparently-To headers indicating real sloppiness on the forgers or easy-to-use-interface software. this is only happening to my metallica (a rock band :-) mailing list, my harley-davidson list hasn't seen it yet. has anyone else noticed this, any ideas if it's evil-doer work or simply really sloppy software? -ken, i too hate mailto: kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca postmaster@thinkage.on.ca metallica-request@thinkage.on.ca harley-request@thinkage.on.ca --- >From Psychosis@iii1.iii.net Sun Sep 17 21:24:44 1995 >From: >Received: from lunic.luth.se (root@lunic.luth.se [130.240.19.2]) > by thinkage (8.6.10(.4)/Thinkage950227) with ESMTP > id VAA19508 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 21:24:38 -0400 >Received: from a (FUTURES.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU [130.91.163.132]) by lunic.luth.se (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.1) with SMTP id DAA28455 for metallica-request@thinkage.on.ca; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 03:23:15 +0200 (MET DST) >Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 03:23:15 +0200 (MET DST) >Message-Id: <199509180123.DAA28455@lunic.luth.se> >Apparently-To: > >subscribe From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 18 10:01:31 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id JAA25072 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:46:20 -0700 Received: from maytag.graphics.cornell.edu (MAYTAG.GRAPHICS.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.247.157]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id JAA25064 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:46:12 -0700 Received: from localhost by maytag.graphics.cornell.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/07Nov94-0649PM) id AA27737; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:45:42 -0400 Message-Id: <9509181645.AA27737@maytag.graphics.cornell.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6gamma 3/31/95 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: list probes from Wendy Murdock? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 12:45:39 -0400 From: Mitch Collinsworth X-Mts: smtp Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Gang, Are other people seeing these? I got one for my list that's listed in the PAML but not for the one that's not. (My reaction is shown below.) -Mitch ------- Forwarded Message From: Wendy Murdock Message-Id: <199509180627.XAB01028@coyote.rain.org> Subject: orienteering mailing list To: orienteering-request@graphics.cornell.edu Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:27:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 134 I am doing research for a resource publication and need to know if this list is still active. Thanks for your time. - - Wendy Murdock ------- End of Forwarded Message To: Wendy Murdock From: orienteering-REQUEST@Graphics.Cornell.EDU Subject: Re: orienteering mailing list In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Sep 95 23:27:43 PDT." <199509180627.XAB01028@coyote.rain.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 11:38:40 -0400 Hi Wendy, What publication? Your note is rather cryptic and incomplete. Are you planning to publish information about this list in your publication? If so you MUST provide me with more information regarding your plans before I will grant permission for this. Too many people have published too much incorrect information about the net that this is becoming a rather sore subject for list owners. -Mitch From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 18 11:00:14 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id KAA27110 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:36:43 -0700 Received: from sunic.sunet.se (sunic.sunet.se [192.36.125.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id KAA27090 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:36:36 -0700 Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.8/2.03) id TAA17905; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:35:20 +0200 Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA07410; Mon, 18 Sep 95 19:35:15 +0200 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 19:35:15 +0200 Message-Id: <9509181735.AA07410@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> From: Per Starback To: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <9509181645.AA27737@maytag.graphics.cornell.edu> (message from Mitch Collinsworth on Mon, 18 Sep 95 12:45:39 -0400) Subject: Re: list probes from Wendy Murdock? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk It's the McGraw Hill "Internet Yellow Pages". I guessed that as I recognized the domain rain.org and wrote back that I don't want my list to be listed in that book as it lists list addresses as well as administrative addresses for the lists, which has caused me some non-neglible trouble. Wendy wrote back and confirmed that that's the book and said that only the administrative addresses will be listed in the next edition. -- " Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback@minsk.docs.uu.se "Life is but a gamble! Let flipism chart your ramble!" From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 18 12:30:31 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id MAA03498 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:19:31 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id MAA03490 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:19:26 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07113 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:00:34 -0500 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06482 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:55:07 -0500 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199509181855.NAA06482@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: list probes from Wendy Murdock? To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:55:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 562 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Mitch Collinsworth: > Are other people seeing these? I got one for my list that's listed in > the PAML but not for the one that's not. (My reaction is shown below.) > From: Wendy Murdock > Subject: orienteering mailing list > > I am doing research for a resource publication and need to know if this > list is still active. > > Thanks for your time. > - - Wendy Murdock I believe this is the entity who asked me for permission to use the PAML and was none too pleased when I refused. Looks like she's going to use it in spite of me. From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 18 13:30:54 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id NAA07398 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:18:45 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id NAA07384 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:18:39 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07492 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:50:35 -0500 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07098 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:14:06 -0500 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199509181914.OAA07098@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: list probes from Wendy Murdock? To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:14:06 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 340 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Per Starback: > It's the McGraw Hill "Internet Yellow Pages". It is? Oh, ghod, this is the book that has my personal address listed as a listserver. I have received literally hundreds of messages in email over the past 9 to 10 months saying nothing but "send interest-groups/netinfo". Grrr. (tho it is kind of funny in retrospect) From list-managers-owner Tue Sep 19 13:00:33 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id MAA12478 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:50:38 -0700 Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id MAA12471 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:50:31 -0700 Received: from mne.ifi.uio.no (1232@mne.ifi.uio.no [129.240.70.5]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:49:12 +0200 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Received: (from kjetilho@localhost) by mne.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:49:11 +0200 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:49:11 +0200 Message-Id: <199509191949.3671.mne.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no> To: space-1999-request@quack.kfu.com, jbotari@uoguelph.ca, tadream-request@cs.uwp.edu, haskell-request@CS.YALE.EDU, info-ingres-errors@axp12.ams.org, owner-libernet@Dartmouth.EDU, tingsell@vinga.hum.gu.se, femuscle-owner@pcg.com, space-music-request@cs.uwp.edu, flashadm@FlashBack.com, jarre-request@cs.uwp.edu, chady@cris.com, paglia-l-error@ac.dal.ca Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Cc: usenet@ifi.uio.no Subject: Problems at ifi.uio.no soon resolved Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk We are having problems with our news server, and as a result you have been seeing some bounces from our mail -> news gateway. This is just to let you know that the problems should be resolved shortly, and the subscriber address (often fa.*@ifi.uio.no) should not be removed. I'd also like to point out that the only reason you are seeing bounces is that you add "Errors-To" to your headers. I don't know how to convince Sendmail to ignore it. The bounces are really only of interest to usenet@ifi.uio.no. Kjetil T. PS. List-managers: Hey, we're not AOL, but I thought this might be used as an argument against adding Errors-To, legacy though it is. From list-managers-owner Tue Sep 19 23:00:23 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id WAA23955 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:38:22 -0700 Received: from ornette.uchicago.edu (ornette.uchicago.edu [128.135.99.101]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id OAA20730 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:32:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost.uchicago.edu [127.0.0.1]) by ornette.uchicago.edu (8.6.10/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA27603 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:30:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199509192130.QAA27603@ornette.uchicago.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 Reply-To: ckk@uchicago.edu From: ckk@uchicago.edu To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: fun with DNS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:30:44 -0500 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here's something I thought was amusing, because it's so twisted. It all came because we finally deactivated a machine (uhuru.uchicago.edu) that had previously housed miscellaneous users who don't qualify for accounts on any of our "real" systems here. Someone didn't unsubscribe from a mailing list before their host was deactivated, and apparently there were some very creative interpretations of how to set up Internet Domain Nameserver records by the administrators down in Brazil where the mailing list came from. So mail starts bouncing back and forth, and it comes to Mailer-Daemon/postmaster (i.e., me). So I have to try and untangle the DNS mess to get a message through to the list administrators, so that I don't start getting all the bounced messages from the list to this deactivated user. Moral of the story? I don't know, just don't screw up your DNS records and sendmail configuration like these guys did, especially not if you host an international mailing list... Chris Koenigsberg ckk@uchicago.edu, postmaster@uchicago.edu U. of Chicago Academic Computing Services ------- Forwarded Message From: postmaster@uchicago.edu To: root@bee.uspnet.usp.br Subject: problem with DNS records for if.usp.br Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:30:32 -0500 Hello, there seems to be some mistake in the Internet Domain Nameserver entries for "if.usp.br". There is also a problem with the mail configuration on the host "uspif.if.usp.br" which means that we can't get a message through to the system administrators there. (the following forwarded message is intended for them) The MX records for if.usp.br say that the mail exchanger with precedence 0 is uspif.if.usp.br, and the mail exchanger with precedence 10 is also uspif.if.usp.br! This looks kind of strange, to begin with, why is this mail exchanger host listed twice? But then the third MX mail exchanger host, with precedence 10, is listed as "uspif.cia-info.br". Unfortunately, there is no host with this name, not in the Internet Domain Nameserver system. I did some guessing and found out that there is actually a hostname "cia-info.if.usp.br". However, this is merely a CNAME, and the canonical name is.... "uspif.if.usp.br", the same host that is listed twice in the other MX records! So all the MX records lead to the host named uspif.if.usp.br. Someone should fix the 3rd MX record for if.usp.br, which incorrectly gives the non-existent hostname "uspif.cia-info.br". (also, perhaps you should have only one MX record, since there's only one real host acting as mail exchanger, i.e. uspif.if.usp.br) But anyway, there is a sendmail configuration problem on the mail exchanger host uspif.if.usp.br, so that our mailer gets a "read error" whenever it tries to deliver messages there! so there's no way to get mail through to if.usp.br addresses. Yet it is sending out messages, to an international mailing list. I found that bee.uspnet.usp.br is acting as an authoritative Nameserver for if.usp.br, so I thought perhaps you might be able to get this message to the if.usp.br administrators. Please ask them to unsubscribe "dkahane@uhuru.uchicago.edu" from the "bras-esportes-digest@if.usp.br" mailing list! Thank you, and good luck, Chris Koenigsberg postmaster@uchicago.edu U. of Chicago Academic Computing Services Chicago, IL. USA - ------- Forwarded Message >From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Sep 19 14:18:41 1995 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: uspif.cia-info.br.: host not found) The original message was received at Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:16:48 -0500 from localhost.uchicago.edu [127.0.0.1] ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- (unrecoverable error) (unrecoverable error) (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 ,,... reply: read error from uspif.if.usp.br. 550 ,,... Host unknown (Name server: uspif.cia-info.br.: host not found) ----- Original message follows ----- From: postmaster@midway.uchicago.edu To: bras-esportes-digest-request@if.usp.br Subject: unsubscribe dkahane@uhuru.uchicago.edu Cc: postmaster@midway.uchicago.edu, owner-bras-esportes-digest@if.usp.br, postmaster@if.usp.br unsubscribe bras-esportes-digest dkahane@uhuru.uchicago.edu end - - ---------- The host named "uhuru.uchicago.edu" has been deactivated. The address "dkahane@uhuru.uchicago.edu" is now invalid and should be removed from the bras-esportes-digest@if.usp.br mailing list. There was a problem and our Mailer-Daemon couldn't return an automatic non-delivery notice to the list owner. Chris Koenigsberg postmaster@uchicago.edu, postmaster@midway.uchicago.edu U. of Chicago Academic Computing Services - - --OAA26509.811538321/ornette.uchicago.edu-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Forwarded Message From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 20 00:03:00 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id AAA26445 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 00:00:52 -0700 Received: from gw2.att.com (gw2.att.com [192.20.239.134]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id AAA26438 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 00:00:48 -0700 Received: from cmprime.UUCP by ig1.att.att.com id AA18019; Wed, 20 Sep 95 02:58:36 EDT From: "Paul S R Chisholm" Received: by cmprime.cis.att.com (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA235540356; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:59:16 -0400 Posted-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:59:16 -0400 Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:59:16 -0400 Original-From: "Paul S R Chisholm" Message-Id: <9509200259.ZM23552@cmprime.cis.att.com> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:59:16 -0400 References: <199509200600.XAA24495@miles.greatcircle.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: netiquette pleas to List-Managers members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk (from a subscriber, *not* an administrator, of the list!) (1) If you're forwarding e-mail messages to the list to share their content with us all, could you please trim the extraneous headers of the messages first? I'm glad to see discussion about the editor of the Internet Yellow Pages, but if I didn't see her X-Mailer: lines, that'd save me (and all of our fellow subscribers to the list) just a little time. (2) If you're forwarding e-mail messages to the list to point out interesting technical points (loops, bad bounces, forgeries), please include a clue as to what's going on. Many of us are experts in SMTP and DNS; some of us aren't. The most recent Mailing-List-Digest had several messages that prompted this plea, and several that were very friendly and helpful along these veins. I'm not trying to pick on anyone in particular. --PSRC Paul S. R. Chisholm psrc@cmprime.att.com AT&T Bell Laboratories/ AT&T Mail !psrchisholm AT&T PersonaLink(sm) Services and AT&T WorldNet(sm) Services I'm not speaking for AT&T or anyone else, I'm just speaking my mind Disclaimer: I think AT&T WorldNet(sm) Services has some relationship with the Internet Yellow Pages folks, from what I read in the papers.-) From list-managers-owner Wed Sep 20 09:02:51 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id JAA13282 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:00:55 -0700 Received: from maytag.graphics.cornell.edu (MAYTAG.GRAPHICS.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.247.157]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id JAA13275 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:00:51 -0700 Received: from localhost by maytag.graphics.cornell.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/07Nov94-0649PM) id AA12641; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:00:27 -0400 Message-Id: <9509201600.AA12641@maytag.graphics.cornell.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6gamma 3/31/95 To: "Paul S R Chisholm" Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: netiquette pleas to List-Managers members In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 20 Sep 95 02:59:16 EDT." <9509200259.ZM23552@cmprime.cis.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:00:21 -0400 From: Mitch Collinsworth X-Mts: smtp Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >(1) If you're forwarding e-mail messages to the list to share their >content with us all, could you please trim the extraneous headers of >the messages first? I'm glad to see discussion about the editor of the >Internet Yellow Pages, but if I didn't see her X-Mailer: lines, that'd >save me (and all of our fellow subscribers to the list) just a little >time. That *was* an editted version of the headers. I'm just incredibly sorry I didn't trim every single extraneous line out of it just for you. I agree with the idea you're espousing here, but I really don't think my Wendy Murdock message is a good example of the problem. Moreover I think the people who post to this list are a lot better about this than on most lists. So basically I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. >(2) If you're forwarding e-mail messages to the list to point out >interesting technical points (loops, bad bounces, forgeries), please >include a clue as to what's going on. Many of us are experts in SMTP >and DNS; some of us aren't. I thought the point was to ask questions in hopes of getting an answer from someone who knows, not to give tutorials to newbies. If you want to learn, pay attention and ask questions. If you want a tutorial but a book or attend a seminar. -Mitch From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 21 13:30:48 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id NAA10826 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:04:16 -0700 Received: from camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu [137.229.18.50]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id NAA10802 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:04:08 -0700 Received: by camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (NX5.67d/NX3.0M) id AA06944; Thu, 21 Sep 95 11:59:29 -0800 From: John W Redelfs Message-Id: <9509211959.AA06944@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu> Subject: Host needed for list To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:59:27 -0800 (GMT-9:00) Cc: tsjwr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 522 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk My Majordomo list, ZION, needs a new home. It is an unofficial discussion list for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon). The membership has recently fluctuated between 165 and 220. Over the last four months the traffic has averaged about 500 MB per month. If anyone can donate resources, that would be great. If not, I can pay for these services so long as the price is not too high. I run the list as a personal hobby. Sincerely, John W. Redelfs, tsjwr@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu From list-managers-owner Thu Sep 21 14:30:33 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id OAA13426 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:23:38 -0700 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uumail1.netcom.com [163.179.3.50]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id OAA13408 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:23:31 -0700 Received: from znyx.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with SMTP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id OAA02736; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:09:44 -0700 Received: from alan.znyx.com by znyx.com (5.65/1.35) id AA05713; Thu, 21 Sep 95 14:02:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 14:02:19 -0700 Message-Id: <9509212102.AA05713@znyx.com> X-Sender: alan@znyx.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: alan@znyx.com (Alan Deikman) Subject: Re: Host needed for list Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk John: >The membership has recently fluctuated >between 165 and 220. Over the last four months the traffic has >averaged about 500 MB per month. ONE HALF GIG per month! That is over 2MB per person per month, enough for a medium length novel! Even the ATM Forum "only" generates about 10MB per month. What do you guys find to talk about? -------------------------------- Alan Deikman, ZNYX Corporation alan@znyx.com From list-managers-owner Sun Sep 24 19:23:28 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id TAA28332 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 19:21:13 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id TAA28325 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 19:21:09 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA09068 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Sun, 24 Sep 1995 21:18:04 -0500 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA29611 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:55:44 -0500 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199509250155.UAA29611@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Mailing list Spam To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:55:43 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1955 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here's a somewhat clueless spam. Looks like he's running through the PAML, and is currently up to the D's. He might be using an older version, as I put in an early warning entry, and it didn't get hit. FYI. From SKOEHN@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU Sun Sep 24 20:47:37 1995 Received: from WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (uucp@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with UUCP id UAA29404 for ranger-list-request@TARONGA.COM; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:47:37 -0500 Received: from wvnvm.wvnet.edu by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with SMTP id AA08753 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 24 Sep 1995 20:03:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199509250103.AA08753@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU> Received: from WVNVM.WVNET.EDU by WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 2005; Sun, 24 Sep 95 21:02:33 EDT Received: from WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (NJE origin SKOEHN@WVNVM) by WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8572; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 21:02:34 -0400 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 21:02:33 -0400 (EDT) From: To: , , Cc: , , Subject: Lurking questionnaire Status: OR This post is a simple questionnaire on the topic of "lurking" on bulletin boards. This questionnaire is for a research study for graduate course work in electronic communication. Your assistance is appreciated. Please note that all responses are voluntary and complete confidentiality is guaranteed. Thank you. Question 1: What are your feelings regarding the phenomena of "lurking?" Question 2: What benefits or detriments do you feel or associate with "lurking" on a bulletin board? Question 3: Are there any similarities between your willingness to communicate to others in person and your willingness to post? Replay to: skoehn@wvnvm.wvnet.edu From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 25 08:54:19 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id IAA15059 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:30:24 -0700 Received: from aspen.plexus.com (aspen.plexus.com [192.217.104.193]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id IAA15051 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:30:19 -0700 Received: from cuckoo.pd.tgi.plexus.com (cuckoo.pd.tgi.plexus.com [192.217.104.40]) by aspen.plexus.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id KAA26824 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:28:38 -0500 Received: (from ctomasi@localhost) by cuckoo.pd.tgi.plexus.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA00283; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:28:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:28:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Chuck Tomasi X-Sender: ctomasi@cuckoo.pd.tgi.plexus.com To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: PERL5/Majordomo on AIX Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I was asked by someone to help them get Majordomo (and probably PERL5) running on an RS/6000 using AIX. I know little to nothing about the specifics of AIX. I don't even know if I'll be better off compiling Majordomo with the BSD options or POSIX options! I'm sure I'll have all kinds of fun with PERL5! I was wondering if someone could give me some insight (or the Makefiles) for either or both of the above two packages so I don't waste a lot of time trying to compile, install, and configure them. Chuck Tomasi // chuck.tomasi@plexus.com Systems Administrator // http://www.edsi.org/~ctomasi/ Technology Group Inc. // MiSTie#2356 A PLEXUS Company // "When in doubt... logout" -- me, date unknown From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 25 14:25:36 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id OAA27930 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 14:05:58 -0700 Received: from terminus.inforum.telub.se (terminus.inforum.telub.se [147.13.12.199]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id OAA27922 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 14:05:52 -0700 Received: from noak.vxo.telub.se by terminus.inforum.telub.se with SMTP (PP) id <19496-0@terminus.inforum.telub.se>; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:02:28 +0100 Received: by noak with Microsoft Mail id <30721563@noak>; Mon, 25 Sep 95 22:02:27 +02 From: "Eriksson Per Olof, SEME" To: majordomo list-managers Subject: through gateways Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 22:01:00 +02 Message-ID: <30721563@noak> Encoding: 30 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I have a majordomo 1.93 on an HP710 with 9.03 running just fine locally.= (=20 between users on the same machine) But when I try to have it receive and= =20 send messages through our company gateway, it just core dumps.......... My ordinary mail to and from the machine works ok. Symptoms: When I send a command like : lists It answers with an incomplete answer like this: -- >>>> lists Majordomo serves the following lists: , and when I check the postmaster it has a message of a core dump Could it be anything with majordomo doesn=B4t like the added send and r= eceive=20 headers added by the mail gateways? If you have any ideas please make suggestions. p.o.eriksson@telub.se From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 25 15:55:57 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id PAA02694 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:51:41 -0700 Received: from torii.triple-i.com (torii.triple-i.com [192.94.150.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id PAA02678 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:51:36 -0700 Received: from siesta (siesta+.triple-i.com [192.94.150.7]) by torii.triple-i.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04915 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:48:31 -0700 Received: from pak by siesta (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27907; Mon, 25 Sep 95 15:48:20 PDT From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Message-Id: <9509252248.AA27907@siesta> Subject: bounces from Architext To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:48:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 569 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At the risk of bringing up a sore subject, I received a bounce from the Architext address (list@atext.com) I added to my mailing lists: list@mas.atext.com (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 MX list for mas.atext.com. points back to burntfungus.atext.com 554 list@mas.atext.com... Local configuration error I hope that the folks at Architext realize that they are in a position to cause a lot of mailing list managers a lot of grief if mail to list@atext.com continues to bounce. -Jeff From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 25 19:52:31 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id TAA11107 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 19:34:13 -0700 Received: from atext.com (mas.atext.com [204.62.245.24]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id TAA11099 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 19:34:10 -0700 Received: (from foopee@localhost) by atext.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA09978; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 19:26:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 19:26:27 -0700 From: Graham Spencer Message-Id: <199509260226.TAA09978@atext.com> To: jeffw@triple-i.com CC: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, graham@atext.com In-reply-to: <9509252248.AA27907@siesta> (jeffw@triple-i.com) Subject: Re: bounces from Architext Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) said: > list@mas.atext.com (unrecoverable error) > (expanded from: ) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 554 MX list for mas.atext.com. points back to burntfungus.atext.com > 554 list@mas.atext.com... Local configuration error > I hope that the folks at Architext realize that they are in a > position to cause a lot of mailing list managers a lot of grief > if mail to list@atext.com continues to bounce. We introduced the problem late last night, and fixed it early this morning (although given the way DNS operates, it may take a day or so for our fix to propagate). The problem is different from the ones that we had before. I apologize for any inconvenience we may have caused. --Graham ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Graham Spencer Phone: 415.934.3613 graham@atext.com Fax: 415.934.3610 Architext Software Mail: 2700 Garcia, Mountain View 94043 From list-managers-owner Mon Sep 25 21:52:50 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id VAA13705 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 21:46:58 -0700 Received: from cs.umass.edu (freya.cs.umass.edu [128.119.40.195]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id FAA13790 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 05:29:59 -0700 Received: by cs.umass.edu (5.65/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA09794; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:28:56 -0400 Message-Id: <9509221228.AA09794@cs.umass.edu> Subject: Re: mailto: (and phony addresses) To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199509200600.XAA24495@miles.greatcircle.com> from "list-managers-digest-owner@GreatCircle.COM" at Sep 19, 95 11:00:30 pm From: futplex@pseudonym.com (Futplex) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1433 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Avi Hyman, CSG writes: > For me the bigger problem are the c-punks who think it is funny to use > Netscape's mailer to subscribe to lists using phony addresses (or ones > they want to have spammed with list mail). I catch most of them, and a > list managers list I am on will often send out a warning about a bogus > address, but frankly, I find it very annoying - has anyone else dealt > with this issue? If by "c-punks" you're referring to the loose association of people that congregates around the cypherpunks mailing list, then I'd like to hear more specifics of this allegation. It has become something of a tradition in cypherpunk circles to sign up for free Web-distributed services that demand an address/password, and then broadcast the ID/password combination for general use. However, I've never heard of anyone subscribing to a mailing list for that sort of purpose. [Actually, the c'punk approach to mailing list subscription privacy is simple: use a pseudonymous address.] In fact, we were spammed for a while when someone used the c'punks list address to sign up for a free email-your-elected-representative Web service, which turned out to channel all the Senators' autoreplies back to the list. Cypherpunks were displeased. If you meant something else by "c-punks", I'd appreciate a clarification of your use of the term. Thanks -Futplex Disclaimer: I speak at most for myself. From list-managers-owner Tue Sep 26 01:53:49 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id BAA18569 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:42:52 -0700 Received: from zeus.ci.ua.pt (zeus.ci.ua.pt [193.136.80.3]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id BAA18562 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 01:42:47 -0700 Received: by zeus.ci.ua.pt (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA048468295; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 09:38:15 GMT From: Benjamim Junior Message-Id: <199509260938.AA048468295@zeus.ci.ua.pt> Subject: Re: through gateways To: P.O.Eriksson@telub.se (Eriksson Per Olof SEME) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 09:38:15 +0000 (PWT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <30721563@noak> from "Eriksson Per Olof, SEME" at Sep 25, 95 10:01:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1437 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > I have a majordomo 1.93 on an HP710 with 9.03 running just fine locally.= > between users on the same machine) But when I try to have it receive and= > send messages through our company gateway, it just core dumps.......... > > My ordinary mail to and from the machine works ok. > Symptoms: > When I send a command like : lists > It answers with an incomplete answer like this: > -- > >>>> lists > Majordomo serves the following lists: > > > , and when I check the postmaster it has a message of a core dump > Could it be anything with majordomo doesn=B4t like the added send and r= > eceive=20 > headers added by the mail gateways? > If you have any ideas please make suggestions. > p.o.eriksson@telub.se Have you attempted to use sendmail manually and with the -v flag? for instance 'echo help |/usr/lib/sendmail -v one-list'. That can give you an idea of what's wrong... I have a similar problem when installing Majordomo in my HP826, but it was PERL version. Now it's running without problems... -- -====================================================================- Benjamim Junior E-Mail -> junior@ua.pt University of Aveiro URL -> http://sweet.ua.pt/~junior/ Portugal Phone -> +351 34 370345/Ext:2255 UNIX System Administrator PGP Key on request. -====================================================================- From list-managers-owner Tue Sep 26 07:26:57 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id HAA26394 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 07:05:05 -0700 Received: from skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu [128.163.144.19]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id HAA26387 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 07:05:00 -0700 Received: (from morgan@localhost) by skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA08327 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:02:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:02:57 -0400 From: Wes Morgan Message-Id: <199509261402.KAA08327@skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Potential spam mailing Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Someone connected to the National Alliance (a white-power group, it would seem) dropped a spam in my mailbox this morning. I've appended the headers; those of you with preemptive rejection criteria might want to load this address up, just in case he decides to hit mailing lists. I've already forwarded a complaint to the appropriate postmasters. --Wes >From root@mc3.hq.eso.org Tue Sep 26 02:25:26 1995 >Return-Path: root@mc3.hq.eso.org >Received: from mc3.hq.eso.org (mc3.hq.eso.org [134.171.8.4]) by skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id CAA04383 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 02:25:00 -0400 >Received: by mc3.hq.eso.org (4.1/ eso-4.2) > id AA08724; Tue, 26 Sep 95 06:12:34 +0100 >Received: by slip-1.slip.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) > id AA27149; Mon, 25 Sep 95 20:11:43 -0700 >Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 20:11:43 -0700 >From: Crusader@National.Alliance (Crusader) >Message-Id: <568.32472628@National.Alliance> >Subject: The Long March >Apparently-To: Crusader >Status: R > > > >If you are concerned about the fate Western/American civiliztion >and its people, please take the time to read this artcle. [ remainder of rant deleted ] From list-managers-owner Tue Sep 26 09:33:18 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) id JAA01860 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 09:08:20 -0700 Received: from mv.mv.com (mv.MV.COM [192.80.84.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id JAA01853 for ; Tue,