From owner-list-managers-list Sun Nov 2 17:59:26 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id RAA20055; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from outlawnet.com (outlawnet.com [204.245.248.202]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id RAA20046 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:56:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.103.66] (houston2-mc36.access.sinet.slb.com [163.185.166.47]) by outlawnet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA00898 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:55:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199710201518.LAA28277@kelvin.internic.net> References: <199710192016.QAA14210@rs2.internic.net> from "Gary E. Bickford" at Oct 19, 97 04:16:18 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 19:53:38 -0600 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: "Gary E. Bickford" Subject: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I recently whined to internic about the fact that their DNS records are full of bad information, making it difficult to track down and respond appropriately to spam (for instance, sending complaints to their hosting providers) Their response is of interest. This is excerpted from the entire thing, which is long and boring. I don't think I've left out significant context. First, the relevant part of my mail: >> Folks, >> InterNIC can be a useful and important tool in the self-management (as >>opposed to regulation) of the Internet. >> >> I often use your whois database as a tool in reporting Spam to the >>various ISP's abuse email teams, e.g., abuse@aol.com. I laboriously view >>the email headers of spam, and look up any that aren't obviously bogus in >>whois. I also look up the parent domain, and the owner of the IP address >>block, and send copies to the responsible parties for all of the domains >>I can match. With this method, I have been about 50% successful in >>getting abusers' accounts removed. >> 1. However, I've noticed that a significant percentage of the DNS >>records for valid domains and handles associated with known spammers are >>bogus - false or impossible email addresses and false snailmail addresses >>and phones. >> >> This must mean that your authentication system for email addresses for >>responsible parties' handles is not working as well as it could. I >>suggest that you require more authentication and/or other means of >>assuring a valid, permanent email address for handles. >Dear Customer, > >Thank you for contacting Network Solutions Inc., InterNIC Registration >Services. > >It is the responsibility of the domain holder to update the domain >information. Failure to provide this information does not constitute >grounds for shutting down a domain. At this time, we will take no action >against the domain. > >It is the responsibility of each contact to update their personal >information. > >The InterNIC, like all Internet users, is impacted by individuals who >propagate "spam" (bulk e-mailing) on the network. However, we are >responsible for the administration of the name space and not for >policing its content or use. > >Many Internet Service Providers (ISPs) have policies regarding bulk >e-mails. You may wish to contact the ISP of the user who sent you >the e-mail. > >Best Regards, > >Network Solutions, Inc. /CW From owner-list-managers-list Sun Nov 2 20:14:32 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id UAA03030; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id UAA03023 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tibbs@localhost) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA18963; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:03:43 -0600 (CST) To: "Gary E. Bickford" Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database References: <199710192016.QAA14210@rs2.internic.net> from "Gary E. Bickford" at Oct 19, 97 04:16:18 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.100) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Jason L Tibbitts III Date: 02 Nov 1997 22:03:43 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Gary E. Bickford"'s message of Sun, 2 Nov 1997 19:53:38 -0600 Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.46/Emacs 19.34 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >>>>> "GEB" == Gary E Bickford writes: [Quoting InterNIC response] >> It is the responsibility of each contact to update their personal >> information. I bet they make sure the billing address is correct, though. Why do they even bother to keep the information if they don't care whether or not it's useful? - J< From owner-list-managers-list Sun Nov 2 20:59:01 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id UAA05484; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:50:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from outlawnet.com (outlawnet.com [204.245.248.202]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id UAA05466 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.103.66] (houston2-mc36.access.sinet.slb.com [163.185.166.47]) by outlawnet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02334; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:50:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: "Gary E. Bickford"'s message of Sun, 2 Nov 1997 19:53:38 -0600 <199710192016.QAA14210@rs2.internic.net> from "Gary E. Bickford" at Oct 19, 97 04:16:18 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:44:43 -0600 To: Jason L Tibbitts III From: "Gary E. Bickford" Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >>>>>> "GEB" == Gary E Bickford writes: > >[Quoting InterNIC response] >>> It is the responsibility of each contact to update their personal >>> information. > >I bet they make sure the billing address is correct, though. You got that right. No, actually in my experience they don't care if you get the bill, only that you pay it. > >Why do they even bother to keep the information if they don't care whether >or not it's useful? Kinda what I wondered. Also, how they can consider themselves authoritative. What do they think they are supposed to be doing with that money? From owner-list-managers-list Sun Nov 2 21:44:09 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id VAA09775; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 21:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id VAA09768 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 21:37:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail.execpc.com [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.6) id XAA20186 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:37:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from presario-7212 (jaemus-22.mdm.mad.execpc.com [169.207.41.215]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA17192 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:37:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <345D5D72.3B6D@mail.execpc.com> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 23:13:22 -0600 From: Gillam Kerley X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: sunyjefferson.edu Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6CD511612218" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6CD511612218 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried sending this several days ago, but it doesn't seem to have gone through. So I'm trying again. GK --------------6CD511612218 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Message-ID: <3458AB3A.8BB@mail.execpc.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:43:54 -0600 From: Gillam Kerley X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: sunyjefferson.edu References: <199710300834.AA15211@jive.rahul.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michelle Dick wrote: Every now and then I find myself sending this > form response to a person more than once and having them finally write > with another incorrect attempt and addendum to the effect "if this > doesn't work, I'm giving up, I don't care about your stupid list." My > feelings are: good riddance. If they can't follow the confirm > instructions, how likely are they to follow my posting rules? Or to > be able to successfully unsubscribe themselves when needed? I don't > want folks that clueless on my list, honestly. As a subscriber to lists (who is considering starting a list or two), I have never had any trouble following confirmation instructions, and agree that they are a good idea for the reasons already stated on this list. However, my gripe is with confirmation messages that expire in 24 hours. Depending on my schedule, I may only be able to check my e-mail once or twice a week. By the time I see the confirmation notice, it has expired and I have to start all over or say "to hell with your list." >From the subscriber's standpoint, non-expiring confirmation messages (or messages expiring in 30 days) would be easier to deal with. From the mail bomb victim's standpoint, it shouldn't make any difference, since s/he wouldn't get any mail until/unless s/he confirmed. Does it make a difference from the list manager's perspective? BTW, and forgive my ignorance, given that confirmation commands follow pretty standard formats (and can be obtained by anyone just be requesting to be subscribed), couldn't the creep who is subscribing a victim to unwanted lists just send confirm commands to the list-managers in the victim's name 24 hours after requesting the subscriptions? If not (meaning that the confirm command can come only from the new subscriber's address), why can't a list manager only accept subscription requests that originate from the same address that the subscription is to be sent to? GK --------------6CD511612218-- From owner-list-managers-list Sun Nov 2 23:29:12 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id XAA15048; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:19:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from bolero-x.rahul.net (bolero.rahul.net [192.160.13.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id XAA15014 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from jive.rahul.net by bolero-x.rahul.net with SMTP id AA27790 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:19:32 -0800 Received: by jive.rahul.net (5.67b8/jive-a2i-1.0) id AA27232; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:19:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199711030719.AA27232@jive.rahul.net> To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: sunyjefferson.edu In-Reply-To: <345D5D72.3B6D@mail.execpc.com> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 97 23:19:30 -0800 From: Michelle Dick Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sun, 02 Nov 1997 23:13:22 -0600 gkerley@execpc.com wrote: > > >From the subscriber's standpoint, non-expiring confirmation messages (or > messages expiring in 30 days) would be easier to deal with. From the > mail bomb victim's standpoint, it shouldn't make any difference, since > s/he wouldn't get any mail until/unless s/he confirmed. Does it make a > difference from the list manager's perspective? My list confirmation for SmartList saves a "cookie" for each subscription request. The number of cookies (unused cookies) saved onsite is configurable. They expire so that the disk spaced used doesn't grow without bounds. I generally set my limits so that about 2 weeks are allowed. This is generally a configurable option for all list software that I know of (for those that save cookies onsite). > BTW, and forgive my ignorance, given that confirmation commands follow > pretty standard formats (and can be obtained by anyone just be > requesting to be subscribed), couldn't the creep who is subscribing a > victim to unwanted lists just send confirm commands to the list-managers > in the victim's name 24 hours after requesting the subscriptions? Because the confirmation request includes a unique code. The creep would have to guess the right code. I use a combination of date (to the second) and process ID. > If > not (meaning that the confirm command can come only from the new > subscriber's address), why can't a list manager only accept subscription > requests that originate from the same address that the subscription is > to be sent to? Because the message headers can and are easily forged. -- Michelle Dick artemis@rahul.net East Palo Alto, CA From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 09:01:23 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id IAA01658; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:47:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.proper.com (mail.proper.com [206.86.127.224]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id IAA01634 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from prabhava.proper.com (prabhava.proper.com [165.227.249.110]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17780; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:47:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971103084713.008e64f0@mail.imc.org> X-Sender: paulh@mail.imc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 08:47:13 -0800 To: Jason L Tibbitts III , "Gary E. Bickford" From: Paul Hoffman / IMC Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: References: <"Gary E. Bickford"'s message of Sun, 2 Nov 1997 19:53:38 -0600> <199710192016.QAA14210@rs2.internic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 10:03 PM 11/2/97 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: >I bet they make sure the billing address is correct, though. Not necessarily. As long as they got paid the first time (such as by credit card), I bet they don't even check the billing address. Spammers could easily want to spend the $100 for one year's use of a name and completely hide any contact with the organization. After a year (plus however long NSI lets them get away with not renewing), they simply get a different domain name. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 09:29:01 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id JAA04892; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexus.pigsfly.com ([207.226.181.210]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id JAA04811 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:22:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pslfl5-52.gate.net ([199.227.131.52]) by nexus.pigsfly.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-40113U100L100S0) with SMTP id AAA258; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:26:22 +0000 From: jtlist@pigsfly.com (Jerry Trowbridge) To: Gillam Kerley Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: sunyjefferson.edu Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 17:22:47 GMT Organization: Flying Pig Ranch Reply-To: jtlist@pigsfly.com Message-ID: <346307cb.10398812@pop.pigsfly.com> References: <345D5D72.3B6D@mail.execpc.com> In-Reply-To: <345D5D72.3B6D@mail.execpc.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sun, 02 Nov 1997 23:13:22 -0600, Gillam Kerley wrote: >As a subscriber to lists (who is considering starting a list or two), I >have never had any trouble following confirmation instructions, and >agree that they are a good idea for the reasons already stated on this >list. > >However, my gripe is with confirmation messages that expire in 24 hours. >Depending on my schedule, I may only be able to check my e-mail once or >twice a week. By the time I see the confirmation notice, it has expired >and I have to start all over or say "to hell with your list." I think the best answer to this is a fast list-server. If you can get the confirmation notice back to the user in less than 5 minutes, then they can either confirm or ignore right then and there. This, of course, depends on not only your list-server, but on the mail queue from the potential subscriber's ISP. I'd hope that somebody that checks their email and uploads responses would check it again fairly soon, to catch misdirected messages, bounces, and autoresponses. But of course, we're neither perfect nor living in a perfect world. Jerry Trowbridge --at the Flying Pig Ranch From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 10:29:31 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id KAA11671; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from panix.com (panix.com [198.7.0.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id KAA11661 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:14:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jac@localhost) by panix.com (8.8.5/8.7/PanixU1.3) id NAA24063; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:14:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971103131439.24255@panix.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:14:39 -0500 From: John Clear To: Paul Hoffman / IMC Cc: Jason L Tibbitts III , "Gary E. Bickford" , list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database References: <"Gary <199710192016.QAA14210@rs2.internic.net> <3.0.3.32.19971103084713.008e64f0@mail.imc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971103084713.008e64f0@mail.imc.org>; from Paul Hoffman / IMC on Mon, Nov 03, 1997 at 08:47:13AM -0800 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Mon, Nov 03, 1997 at 08:47:13AM -0800, Paul Hoffman / IMC wrote: > At 10:03 PM 11/2/97 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >I bet they make sure the billing address is correct, though. > > Not necessarily. As long as they got paid the first time (such as by credit > card), I bet they don't even check the billing address. Spammers could > easily want to spend the $100 for one year's use of a name and completely > hide any contact with the organization. After a year (plus however long NSI > lets them get away with not renewing), they simply get a different domain > name. No need to get another domain name, just call NSI and put it on a credit card again. For all the money they collect, you'd think they at least be able to do a minimal check of the information given to them before calling it authoritative. John -- John Clear - jac@panix.com PP-ASEL 1Lt, CAP-CAWG http://www.panix.com/~jac "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." - Unknown From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 12:44:02 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id MAA29939; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from quilla.tezcat.com (quilla.tezcat.com [204.128.247.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id MAA29930 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:35:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.230.56.44] (adamb.tezcat.com [206.230.56.44]) by quilla.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id OAA04943 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:35:30 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711032035.OAA04943@quilla.tezcat.com> Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 14:35:40 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Adam Bailey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On 11/3/97 11:47 AM CST, Paul Hoffman / IMC wrote... >At 10:03 PM 11/2/97 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: >>I bet they make sure the billing address is correct, though. > >Not necessarily. As long as they got paid the first time (such as by credit >card), I bet they don't even check the billing address. Spammers could >easily want to spend the $100 for one year's use of a name and completely >hide any contact with the organization. After a year (plus however long NSI >lets them get away with not renewing), they simply get a different domain >name. It's worse than that. The InterNIC gives you one month to pay for your domain registration. I've heard stories of organizations that register a domain, wait for it to lapse, and then register it again - all without spending a cent. -- Adam Bailey | Chicago, Illinois -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| "Do not take life too seriously; adamb@tezcat.com | you will never get out of it alive." adamkb@aol.com | - Elbert Hubbard Finger for PGP | http://www.tezcat.com/~adamb From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 16:33:46 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id QAA29753; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:14:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu (BROCCOLI.GRAPHICS.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.247.53]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id PAA19414 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from graphics.cornell.edu (LOCALHOST) by broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA026708873; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:27:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199711032027.AA026708873@broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John Clear Cc: Paul Hoffman / IMC , Jason L Tibbitts III , "Gary E. Bickford" , list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Nov 1997 13:14:39 EST." <19971103131439.24255@panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 15:27:53 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >For all the money they collect, you'd think they at least be able >to do a minimal check of the information given to them before calling >it authoritative. Where do they make the claim that the contact info is authoritative? I thought that only referred to the top level dns. -Mitch -- "Families can't trust Disney" From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 16:44:27 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id QAA29782; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu (BROCCOLI.GRAPHICS.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.247.53]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id PAA19232 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:12:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from graphics.cornell.edu (LOCALHOST) by broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA026378528; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:22:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199711032022.AA026378528@broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Paul Hoffman / IMC Cc: Jason L Tibbitts III , "Gary E. Bickford" , list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Nov 1997 08:47:13 PST." <3.0.3.32.19971103084713.008e64f0@mail.imc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 15:22:08 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >Not necessarily. As long as they got paid the first time (such as by credit >card), I bet they don't even check the billing address. Spammers could >easily want to spend the $100 for one year's use of a name and completely >hide any contact with the organization. After a year (plus however long NSI >lets them get away with not renewing), they simply get a different domain >name. The initial $100 gets you 2 years. -Mitch -- "Families can't trust Disney" From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 18:14:01 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id RAA10541; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id RAA10517 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kidzen@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA06663 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:44:31 -0800 Received: from erzo.org by erzo.org (8.7.5/LUCK-AND-DEATH-1.3) id BAA16704; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:41:27 GMT Message-Id: <199711040141.BAA16704@erzo.org> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database Reply-To: appel@erzo.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Nov 1997 15:22:08 EST." <199711032022.AA026378528@broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 17:41:27 -0800 From: Shannon Appel Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I must ask: How exactly do you expect Internic to verify postal addresses and phone numbers? Are they supposed to call/mail every single contact? Do you realize the number of people it would take to verify the hundreds of thousands of phone numbers and addresses? How about the cost in postage and phone tolls? And how often are they going to do this? Every year? Every month? Every day? I'm happy to pay my $50 a year to Internic to have them keep a top level record of my domain, and maintain their infrastructure. I don't want to double or triple my fees just so that Internic can verify my postal address and phone number are right. It would help very marginally against spammers and only then for a limited amount of time (as history has shown us). I'm not willing to permanently increase my Internic bill for that gain. Shannon From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 19:30:17 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id TAA18724; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from quilla.tezcat.com (quilla.tezcat.com [204.128.247.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id TAA18707 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.230.56.44] (adamb.tezcat.com [206.230.56.44]) by quilla.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id VAA23562 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:00:40 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711040300.VAA23562@quilla.tezcat.com> Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 21:00:50 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Adam Bailey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On 11/3/97 8:41 PM CST, Shannon Appel wrote... >How exactly do you expect Internic to verify postal addresses and >phone numbers? As per the subject, we're not. The primary concern is email addresses. Many records will have "no mailbox" or "nobody@nowhere." Of course, there are cases where the phone number and/or address are clearly fake/nonexistent. They should at least do something about that. I don't expect the InterNIC to investigate every entry. I expect them to be responsible about obvious cases of misinformation. -- Adam Bailey | Chicago, Illinois -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| "Do not take life too seriously; adamb@tezcat.com | you will never get out of it alive." adamkb@aol.com | - Elbert Hubbard Finger for PGP | http://www.tezcat.com/~adamb From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 20:14:04 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id TAA26144; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id TAA26136 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.azstarnet.com (mailhost.azstarnet.com [169.197.1.8]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id KAA04279 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from p166 (dialup11ip16.tus.azstarnet.com [169.197.35.80]) by mailhost.azstarnet.com (8.8.5-nerd/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA14985 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:50:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710311750.KAA14985@mailhost.azstarnet.com> X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bob & Lauren" Organization: http://www.humvee.com To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:50:21 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Funny "bounce" message from Italy Reply-to: bish@azstarnet.com In-reply-to: <199710310900.BAA23038@honor.greatcircle.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk The seem to have a sense of humor. Here's an excerpt: > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx13.netvision.net.il. > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. > This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. > > : > 194.90.1.108 does not like recipient. > Remote host said: 550 ... User unknown > Giving up. ...Bob From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 20:15:36 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id TAA24832; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id TAA24807 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com (netcom17.netcom.com [192.100.81.130]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id HAA21133 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (grafolog@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id HAA04913; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:20:30 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: netcom17.netcom.com: grafolog owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:20:30 +0000 (GMT) From: jonathon X-Sender: grafolog@netcom17 To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: List owners are a public nuisance? In-Reply-To: <30483.878166124@monkeys.com> Message-ID: x-no-archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > system where the sysadmins refuse to install _any_ kind of list management > software. Is there anything that I can do for myself in this case? That Two possible solutions. #1: If the ISP were to set up the required dummy addresses, you could run SmartList out of your shell. This also assumes that the ISP would let you run procmail and smartlist. This isn't always the case. #2: Have your list at a "Mailing List Farm." There are several of them. xan jonathon grafolog@netcom.com From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 20:15:46 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id TAA25361; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id TAA25350 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.bsdi.com (austin.BSDI.COM [205.230.232.49]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id MAA08975 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.bsdi.com ({CSHd8MMrOhPd4V0+DY2oUKC5KyS9J8k/}@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by austin.bsdi.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07316 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:18:27 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710302018.NAA07316@austin.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: List owners are a public nuisance? In-reply-to: List-Managers-Digest's message of Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:33:52 PST. References: <199710300833.AAA17222@honor.greatcircle.com> From: Tony Sanders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:18:22 -0700 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: David Shaw ... > Many people here seem to be in favor of some sort of list confirmation > system. The thing is - what does this do to your average clueless luser? One step in towards solving that would be to have a web based confirmation URL so they just have to point and click: CLICK BELOW TO CONFIRM YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO ``inet-access'': http://www.earth.com/cfrm/inet-access/7UygM8kVZPu6TUcp3sgIZd0O0s5TEPC4 ---- DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT IF THE ABOVE WORKS ---- If the above isn't working email blah.blah.blah That's what I'm currently thinking about doing for inet-access... From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 20:15:59 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id TAA26552; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:57:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id TAA26544 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux.ilinx.com (adm200.mutl-max01.bctel.net [204.174.213.200]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id PAA20224 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brian@localhost) by linux.ilinx.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id IAA32486; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:28:30 -0800 From: "Brian J. Murrell" Message-Id: <199710291628.IAA32486@linux.ilinx.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:28:28 -0800 (PST) To: dshaw@cs.jhu.edu Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Reply-To: brian@ilinx.com Subject: Re: sunyjefferson.edu In-Reply-To: <19971029093512.16668@cnds.jhu.edu> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.2-970722-linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk from the quill of David Shaw on scroll <19971029093512.16668@cnds.jhu.edu> > > Many people here seem to be in favor of some sort of list confirmation > system. The thing is - what does this do to your average clueless luser? You mean those same lusers that won't know how to unsubscribe when they are done. Instead they will send unsubscribe messages to the list, and get all pissed off when that doesn't work and start abusing the list users, etc. Don't want 'em thanks. > Speaking as someone who routinely gets *scribe requests to every possible > address _except_ majordomo, and who has seen people reply to a list > message with "t a k e m e o f f" and quote the whole messsage, INCLUDING > the un*sub instructions attached to every message, I have serious doubts > of the ability of these lusers to comphehend what a list confirmation IS! So the confirmation has an added bonus of being a "mailling-list IQ test" at the same time. Whooopeee, bonus. :-) b. -- Brian J. Murrell brian@ilinx.com InterLinx Support Services, Inc. brian@wimsey.com North Vancouver, B.C. 604 983 UNIX Platform and Brand Independent UNIX Support - R3.2 - R4 - BSD From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 20:16:18 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id TAA24904; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:44:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id TAA24852 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.16.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id IAA27447 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 08:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail.execpc.com [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.6) id KAA10503 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:08:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from presario-7212 (ibanjji-4.mdm.mad.execpc.com [169.207.40.197]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA26710 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:08:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3458AB3A.8BB@mail.execpc.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:43:54 -0600 From: Gillam Kerley X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: sunyjefferson.edu References: <199710300834.AA15211@jive.rahul.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Michelle Dick wrote: Every now and then I find myself sending this > form response to a person more than once and having them finally write > with another incorrect attempt and addendum to the effect "if this > doesn't work, I'm giving up, I don't care about your stupid list." My > feelings are: good riddance. If they can't follow the confirm > instructions, how likely are they to follow my posting rules? Or to > be able to successfully unsubscribe themselves when needed? I don't > want folks that clueless on my list, honestly. As a subscriber to lists (who is considering starting a list or two), I have never had any trouble following confirmation instructions, and agree that they are a good idea for the reasons already stated on this list. However, my gripe is with confirmation messages that expire in 24 hours. Depending on my schedule, I may only be able to check my e-mail once or twice a week. By the time I see the confirmation notice, it has expired and I have to start all over or say "to hell with your list." >From the subscriber's standpoint, non-expiring confirmation messages (or messages expiring in 30 days) would be easier to deal with. From the mail bomb victim's standpoint, it shouldn't make any difference, since s/he wouldn't get any mail until/unless s/he confirmed. Does it make a difference from the list manager's perspective? BTW, and forgive my ignorance, given that confirmation commands follow pretty standard formats (and can be obtained by anyone just be requesting to be subscribed), couldn't the creep who is subscribing a victim to unwanted lists just send confirm commands to the list-managers in the victim's name 24 hours after requesting the subscriptions? If not (meaning that the confirm command can come only from the new subscriber's address), why can't a list manager only accept subscription requests that originate from the same address that the subscription is to be sent to? GK From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 21:00:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id UAA03957; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from hyperreal.org (taz.hyperreal.org [204.62.130.147]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id UAA03830 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13333 invoked from network); 4 Nov 1997 04:48:30 -0000 Received: from localhost.hyperreal.com (HELO brianb.organic.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost.hyperreal.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 1997 04:48:30 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971103204651.009e8100@hyperreal.org> X-Sender: brian@hyperreal.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 20:46:51 -0800 To: bish@azstarnet.com, List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Brian Behlendorf Subject: Re: Funny "bounce" message from Italy In-Reply-To: <199710311750.KAA14985@mailhost.azstarnet.com> References: <199710310900.BAA23038@honor.greatcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk 1) it's isreal. 2) the message came from qmail, lots of sites have this. As a human being, wouldn't you rather see this than sendmail's message? :) Brian At 10:50 AM 10/31/97 +0000, Bob & Lauren wrote: > The seem to have a sense of humor. Here's an excerpt: > >> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx13.netvision.net.il. >> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. >> This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. >> >> : >> 194.90.1.108 does not like recipient. >> Remote host said: 550 ... User unknown >> Giving up. > >...Bob > > --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- "it's a big world, with lots of records to play."-sig brian@hyperreal.org From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 21:14:13 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id UAA01057; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from grinch.whoville.leftbank.com (grinch.leftbank.com [139.167.128.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id UAA01027 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from zax.whoville.leftbank.com by grinch.whoville.leftbank.com via smtpd (for honor.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.44]) with SMTP; 4 Nov 1997 04:29:03 UT Received: from horton-x.whoville.leftbank.com (horton.whoville.leftbank.com [139.167.32.35]) by zax.leftbank.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/LeftBank-1.1/http://www.leftbank.com/) with ESMTP id XAA07155; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:31:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from nmehl@localhost) by horton-x.whoville.leftbank.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/http://www.LeftBank.Com) id XAA29655; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:26:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971103232646.24474@leftbank.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:26:46 -0500 From: "Nathan J. Mehl" To: bish@azstarnet.com Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Funny "bounce" message from Italy References: <199710310900.BAA23038@honor.greatcircle.com> <199710311750.KAA14985@mailhost.azstarnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: <199710311750.KAA14985@mailhost.azstarnet.com>; from Bob & Lauren on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 10:50:21AM +0000 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In the immortal words of Bob & Lauren (bish@azstarnet.com): > The seem to have a sense of humor. Here's an excerpt: > > > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx13.netvision.net.il. > > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. > > This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. Oh dear lord. That's not an unusual bounce at all. That's just qmail. Probably the 2nd or 3rd most popular freeware unix MTA out there. Very surprising that you haven't seen it before. http://www.qmail.org/ -n -- The life of a sysadmin is always intense! Nathan J. Mehl --- The LeftBank Operation nmehl@leftbank.com -- http://www.leftbank.com A Global Internet Company. http://www.gi.net From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 21:29:27 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id VAA10031; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (mycroft.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.35]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id VAA09974 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from windlord.stanford.edu by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (8.8.5/SMI-4.1/Brent-970426) id VAA15519; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 10624 invoked by uid 500); 4 Nov 1997 05:17:27 -0000 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Funny "bounce" message from Italy References: <199710311750.KAA14985@mailhost.azstarnet.com> From: Russ Allbery In-Reply-To: "Bob & Lauren"'s message of Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:50:21 +0000 Date: 03 Nov 1997 21:17:27 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Bob & Lauren writes: > The seem to have a sense of humor. Here's an excerpt: >> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx13.netvision.net.il. I'm >> afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following >> addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't >> work out. That's a standard qmail bounce message. They all look like that. :) The bounce format is descriped in RFCQSBMF in the qmail distribution and is designed to be much more human-readable and friendly while retaining machine parseability. BTW, .il is Israel, not Italy (.it). -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 21:35:42 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id UAA27524; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from grinch.whoville.leftbank.com (grinch.leftbank.com [139.167.128.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id UAA27488 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:04:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from zax.whoville.leftbank.com by grinch.whoville.leftbank.com via smtpd (for honor.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.44]) with SMTP; 4 Nov 1997 04:03:55 UT Received: from horton-x.whoville.leftbank.com (horton.whoville.leftbank.com [139.167.32.35]) by zax.leftbank.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/LeftBank-1.1/http://www.leftbank.com/) with ESMTP id XAA06927; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:06:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from nmehl@localhost) by horton-x.whoville.leftbank.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/http://www.LeftBank.Com) id XAA29623; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:01:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971103230138.55566@leftbank.com> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:01:38 -0500 From: "Nathan J. Mehl" To: Adam Bailey Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database References: <199711040300.VAA23562@quilla.tezcat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: <199711040300.VAA23562@quilla.tezcat.com>; from Adam Bailey on Mon, Nov 03, 1997 at 09:00:50PM -0500 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In the immortal words of Adam Bailey (adamb@tezcat.com): > > Of course, there are cases where the phone number and/or address are > clearly fake/nonexistent. They should at least do something about that. At least in the case of phone numbers, I'm not so sure. We've probably all had at least one run-in with a random creep, psycho or stalker on the net. (Does the name John Grubor ring any bells?) Putting that information out there is not necessarily a good thing. -n, who set the phone number for the blank.org contact info to 617-936-1234 for a reason. -- The life of a sysadmin is always intense! Nathan J. Mehl --- The LeftBank Operation nmehl@leftbank.com -- http://www.leftbank.com A Global Internet Company. http://www.gi.net From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 22:29:08 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id WAA20919; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:21:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from chiba.netxn.com (chiba.netxn.com [205.180.106.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id WAA20889 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from lsk (bak-ppp-4c.netxn.com [205.180.106.165]) by chiba.netxn.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA19915 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:27:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <345EBEE5.EE02BEB3@netxn.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 22:21:25 -0800 From: Linda Kennedy Organization: Linda Kennedy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Building links to Articles in Archives on list X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hello, I am Linda and I am new to the list manager's list. I have been running an author's list for about 3 months so bear with me please. I am a real newbie (AAAARGH! I hate that word) at list management. My question: What is the secret formula for building links on our site to individual stories on my majordomo server. I know I have seen this done. Have any of you seasoned professionals accomplished this seemingly elusive task. It seems there must be a simple formula for this as it must be needed all the time. It does not make sense to use space on two different servers just in order to build links directly to a specific article. It never occurred to me that this would be a problem but I have spent the better part of 3 days trying to figure it out. Any help will be appreciated. After three months of articles, I foresee a cutting and pasting nightmare. Thank you, and I am enjoying the list even though I am now paranoid about having given my real name and address when registering another domain name now. Linda Kennedy 'Bluedog Societe mismanager' mailto:lindaK@netxn.com From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 23:14:09 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id XAA29273; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:10:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from sky.net (solar.sky.net [198.70.175.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id XAA29254 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sky.net.sky.net (ppp-207-193-1-55.kscymo.swbell.net [207.193.1.55]) by sky.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA25621 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:09:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19971104010326.00849bc0@sky.net> X-Sender: price@sky.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 01:03:26 -0600 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Paul Allen Rice Subject: Re: sunyjefferson.edu In-Reply-To: <3458AB3A.8BB@mail.execpc.com> References: <199710300834.AA15211@jive.rahul.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On 09:43 AM 10/30/97 -0600, the following was written by Gillam Kerley: <-<-<-<-<-<-Start of Quoted Material >BTW, and forgive my ignorance, given that confirmation commands follow >pretty standard formats (and can be obtained by anyone just be >requesting to be subscribed), couldn't the creep who is subscribing a >victim to unwanted lists just send confirm commands to the list-managers >in the victim's name 24 hours after requesting the subscriptions? <-<-<-<-<-<-End of Quoted Material Coming out of lurk mode to jump on the thread... Almost every confirmation I have seen has included a unique key code, or serial number that must be included somewhere in the message. The mail bomber wouldn't have pre-existing knowledge of what the key code will be, and never will unless he is on the receiving end of the confirmation message, in which case he would be subscribing himself. That's why the bomber can not fully complete the subscription process. His lack of that special key prevents the confirmation from going through. Personally I like that. As for the expiration date of the confirmation notices being too short, I think 24 hours is enough. I've been on the net for three years now and have subbed and unsubbed to a ton of different lists. I've rarely had a confirmation message come to me later than ten minutes after I send the sub command to the server. (In fact, I recall thinking that the half hour I waited to get notice back from Great Circle was an unbareable length of time. Why is Great Circle so slow???) In my opinion, if a person has the desire to send the subscription command, he should have the patience to stick around long enough to get the reply back and confirm it. If they can't do that, then I don't think they even should consider being on a list. Just my opinion, remember? I'll return to lurkmode now. Paul ------------------------------------------------------------ (o)(o) Paul Allen Rice > Listowner: CircleJoke and Underground Mailing Lists \/ Homepage: ------------------------------------------------------------ "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." --Robert Wilensky, University of California ------------------------------------------------------------ Support the anti-Spam amendment, go to http://www.cauce.org ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-list-managers-list Mon Nov 3 23:59:30 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id XAA07931; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.postmodern.com (kristeva.postmodern.com [198.102.244.54]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id XAA07896 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from postmodern.com (foucault.postmodern.com [198.102.244.52]) by server.postmodern.com (8.8.5/mcb-960422) with ESMTP id XAA28010; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:50:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <345ED3E6.B5BED132@postmodern.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 23:55:23 -0800 From: "Michael C. Berch" Reply-To: mcb@postmodern.com Organization: Postmodern Consulting, California USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM CC: Paul Allen Rice Subject: Great Circle server slowness (was Re: sunyjefferson.edu) References: <199710300834.AA15211@jive.rahul.net> <3.0.5.32.19971104010326.00849bc0@sky.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Paul Allen Rice wrote: > I've rarely had a > confirmation message come to me later than ten minutes after I send the sub > command to the server. (In fact, I recall thinking that the half hour I > waited to get notice back from Great Circle was an unbareable length of > time. Why is Great Circle so slow???) Basically, the greatcircle.com server runs with a pretty decent load grinding through mailing list stuff, as well as serving up Web (we plan to separate those in the future), and we have things set so that Majordomo won't run new jobs if the load average is over some threshold, thus a delay for subscription processing and associated matters at peak periods. -- Michael C. Berch mcb@postmodern.com / mcb@greatcircle.com From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 05:14:08 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id EAA03036; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 04:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.launch.net ([208.225.168.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id EAA02985 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 04:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from jimw.airmail.net [206.66.11.231] by mail.launch.net (SMTPD32-4.02) id A8BA7B013E; Tue, 04 Nov 1997 07:44:42 EST Reply-To: "Jim Whitesell" From: "Jim Whitesell" To: "List Managers" Subject: looking for list server Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 06:46:16 -0600 Message-ID: <01bce91f$a49f69e0$e70b42ce@jimw.airmail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk For the past 3 years I've been running 4 or 5 small lists through a dial-up UUCP account. The UUCP account was provided by an individual that no longer offers the service to me. I'm looking for a kind soul who would be willing to talk about hosting these lists for me. I don't have the ability to pay a fee for the service, though. Are you aware of someone who might be willing to help out? Regards, Jim Whitesell http://www.launch.net From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 06:45:01 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id GAA13675; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 06:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from deepthought.armory.com (deepthought.armory.com [192.122.209.42]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id GAA13661 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 06:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from clovis by deepthought.armory.com id aa28818; 4 Nov 97 6:30 PST Received: by clovis.nerdnosh.org (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Tue, 04 Nov 97 06:28:40 PST for list-managers@greatcircle.com To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Building links to Articles in Archives on list From: Tim Bowden Message-ID: <40DNFe1w165w@clovis.nerdnosh.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 97 06:04:26 PST In-Reply-To: <345EBEE5.EE02BEB3@netxn.com> Organization: NERDNOSH - the story conference as cyber-community! Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Linda Kennedy writes: > Hello, > I am Linda and I am new to the list manager's list. Oh, boy, this one has troubles, all right, and linking is the least of them. Some background. She came into Nerdnosh after the heavy lifting, the planning and the implementation, had been going on for six years. She caused a series of odd childish uproars and then she quit in a public snit. She then proceeded to set up a copycat travesty of the Nosh, ripping off the format, scheme, even the very text from the Nosh. Not even her marketing is original; she leeches from my members. Now, I have more pride and a touch more creativity than to be satisfied with a mindless clone, and anyone with more soul than the average hyena would agree with me. Consequently I expect this forum to respond to this plea with all the assistance she so richly deserves. You offer too much help, and she may well visit your site to see what isn't nailed down. The subject is ripoffs of energy and ideas, and it's relevent here, just as is spamming and any other form of theft. I now return you to your more worthwhile pursuits, which do not include aiding and abetting a ripoff non-artist. Tim Bowden mailto:tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org (Tim Bowden) Proud member of NERDNOSH (tm)! mailto:majordomo@story.nerdnosh org the command: subscribe nerdnosh From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 08:17:22 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id IAA29379; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexus.pigsfly.com ([207.226.181.210]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id IAA29362 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from pslfl3-36.gate.net ([199.227.20.163]) by nexus.pigsfly.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-40113U100L100S0) with SMTP id AAA216 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:14:35 +0000 From: jtlist@pigsfly.com (Jerry Trowbridge) To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Anyone else running software.com Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 16:11:55 GMT Organization: Flying Pig Ranch Reply-To: jtlist@pigsfly.com Message-ID: <34624869.3157980@pop.pigsfly.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I am running post.office from software.com. In accordance with the guidelines for this list, I am not attempting to start an extensive application-specific thread...I'm really looking for a pointer to a list or Usenet group where likeminded folks hang out... The software house itself does not run a list. If there is no such list, we might volunteer to run one if there's interest. Jerry Trowbridge --at the Flying Pig Ranch From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 08:30:16 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id HAA27186; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from chiba.netxn.com (chiba.netxn.com [205.180.106.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id HAA27089 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from lsk (bak-ppp-5d.netxn.com [205.180.106.182]) by chiba.netxn.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA04000; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:01:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <345F455D.F370C9C8@netxn.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 07:55:09 -0800 From: Linda Kennedy Organization: Linda Kennedy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Bowden CC: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Building links to Articles in Archives on list X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <40DNFe1w165w@clovis.nerdnosh.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Tim Bowden wrote: > > Linda Kennedy writes: > > > Hello, > > I am Linda and I am new to the list manager's list. > > Oh, boy, this one has troubles, all right, and linking is the least of > them. Some background. > > She came into Nerdnosh after the heavy lifting, the planning and the > implementation, had been going on for six years. She caused a series of > odd childish uproars and then she quit in a public snit. She then > proceeded to set up a copycat travesty of the Nosh, ripping off the > format, scheme, even the very text from the Nosh. Not even her > marketing is original; she leeches from my members. > > Now, I have more pride and a touch more creativity than to be satisfied > with a mindless clone, and anyone with more soul than the average hyena > would agree with me. Consequently I expect this forum to respond to > this plea with all the assistance she so richly deserves. You offer too > much help, and she may well visit your site to see what isn't nailed > down. > > The subject is ripoffs of energy and ideas, and it's relevent here, just > as is spamming and any other form of theft. I now return you to your > more worthwhile pursuits, which do not include aiding and abetting a > ripoff non-artist. > > Tim Bowden > > mailto:tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org (Tim Bowden) > Proud member of NERDNOSH (tm)! > mailto:majordomo@story.nerdnosh org > the command: subscribe nerdnosh Tim, This is not the time nor the place. Get a grip. You opened the door with this same kind of satire. Is this what the List manager's list is all about (question addressed to other's)? I shall not comment any further in this format to such rantings. Does anyone wish address my original question? Linda From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 08:59:55 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id IAA05949; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from allenpress.com (gopher.allenpress.com [204.52.204.65]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id IAA05833 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from renee.allenpress.com by allenpress.com with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA10313; Tue, 4 Nov 97 10:52:34 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971104105359.0090e210@ap-cov.allenpress.com> X-Sender: rrosen@ap-cov.allenpress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 10:53:59 -0600 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM, ListMom-Talk@SkyList.Net From: Renee Rosen Subject: visual representation of a mailing list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk This is kind of an odd question I know, but what would you use for a visual representation of a mailing list? I'm redoing the company webpage, and I need an image for our page of mailing list services. The photo I have on there now isn't really appropriate (and will be replaced soon), but it's the size that the picture needs to be (216x160, with a 16 pixel black border). I'm looking for something that I can get an image of fairly quickly (i.e., take a photo or screen capture). I tried email, but it didn't look very exciting, plus I already have a black text on white screen effect for the SGML page. If you want to see the layout of my page, it's at under "Electronic Publishing." The server it's on is on my own machine and has a limited license, so if you get a "busy signal," try back later. Any suggestions or ideas would be most appreciated! If you think this is too off-topic, feel free to answer me off-list. Thanks! ************************************************************ Renee Rosen email: rrosen@allenpress.com, Electronic Publishing rrosen@lists.allenpress.com Allen Press, Inc. voice: 785-843-1234 1041 New Hampshire St. url: http://www.allenpress.com Lawrence, KS 66044 ************************************************************ From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 09:14:42 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id JAA08225; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from onramp.armchair.mb.ca (onramp.armchair.mb.ca [198.163.115.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id JAA08199 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 28861 invoked from network); 4 Nov 1997 17:08:42 -0000 Received: from dave.armchair.mb.ca (HELO dave) (198.163.115.50) by onramp.armchair.mb.ca with SMTP; 4 Nov 1997 17:08:42 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971104111226.00bd2c30@armchair.mb.ca> X-Sender: dave@armchair.mb.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 11:12:26 -0600 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: Dave Voorhis Subject: Re: Building links to Articles in Archives on list In-Reply-To: <40DNFe1w165w@clovis.nerdnosh.org> References: <345EBEE5.EE02BEB3@netxn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 06:04 AM 11/4/97 PST, Tim Bowden wrote: >Linda Kennedy writes: > >> Hello, >> I am Linda and I am new to the list manager's list. >She came into Nerdnosh [...,] caused a series of >odd childish uproars and then she quit in a public snit. She then >proceeded to set up a copycat travesty of the Nosh [...] > >Now, I have more pride and a touch more creativity than to be satisfied >with a mindless clone, and anyone with more soul than the average hyena >would agree with me. I indeed have less soul than the average hyena, but at least I recognize and accept that lists split and get cloned all the time. Just a few weeks ago, for example, a fellow got pissed that the content wasn't following the lines he wanted, so he created a clone of one my busier lists. Does that hurt me? Not at all. In fact, when another list member asked about it, I posted an announcement about his list on my list and subcribed to it myself. If his list turns out better than mine and replaces it, more power to him; it would certainly save me some work. If his list is worse, it will die. Most likely, I suspect his list will find a different audience, and will ultimately serve a different purpose. All of these things are fine. If the issue is violation of copyright law, that's something else entirely. However, I question whether a list concept is copyrightable or not. If it isn't, learn to live with the "clone". In the business world, it's called "competition." As for the original question about searchable archives, here's what I did: I set up a Windows NT machine (already used for other things) with Microsoft Internet Server and Microsoft Index Server. Then I installed the freeware EMWAC mail transfer agent on the NT box. I set up a mail account on the NT box for each list I wished to index, and subscribed the mail accounts to the daily digests of my lists. By design, EMWAC stores the incoming digests in a directory. In the wee hours of the morning, the NT "at" facility wakes up a utility that I wrote, which reads the digests stored by EMWAC and converts each message to an individual HTML file in a destination directory. This allows the messages to automatically be indexed by Microsoft Index Server. Finally, I modifed the canned HTML that came with MS Index Server, and stamped it "finished." An example can be seen at http://www2.armchair.mb.ca/wings. While by no means the fanciest or slickest searchable archive, it was the best solution given the resources available. Prior to using this method, I used Glimpse running on a Linux machine, but found it consumed all available memory during reindexing, as well as using up hard drive space needed for something else. Dave Voorhis mailto:dave@armchair.mb.ca http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 09:59:31 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id JAA16251; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexus.pigsfly.com ([207.226.181.210]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id JAA16211 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:54:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1Cust16.max5.miami.fl.ms.uu.net ([153.34.119.144]) by nexus.pigsfly.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-40113U100L100S0) with SMTP id AAA259; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:57:41 +0000 From: jtlist@pigsfly.com (Jerry Trowbridge) To: appel@erzo.org Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Invalid Email addresses in InterNIC whois database Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 17:55:01 GMT Organization: Flying Pig Ranch Reply-To: jtlist@pigsfly.com Message-ID: <345f5f99.9093025@pop.pigsfly.com> References: <199711040141.BAA16704@erzo.org> In-Reply-To: <199711040141.BAA16704@erzo.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Mon, 03 Nov 1997 17:41:27 -0800, Shannon Appel wrote: >How exactly do you expect Internic to verify postal addresses and >phone numbers? As has been said, phone numbers are nice, but a valid email address is the biggest problem for me. Increasingly, we're finding not only the obvious bogus nohost.com type stuff, but also administrative contacts who wind up in the record because some provider put them there without telling them they've done so, or explaining what responsibilities might come in the package. I wouldn't mind an auto-generated message once a month or so from internic to my listed email address sending us a copy of all the internic records for which we're responsible and asking us to make any changes if they are necessary. A bounce could then be followed up by internic through more automated processes and, finally by a real live human being (TM). Ultimately, a bogus or non-responsive set of contacts could result in said RLHB making the records inactive...which would certainly get the attention of any active domain. Internic certainly bills enough to do this...one class action suit currently claims they're charging $35.00 of their fees for a slush fund to generally aid the internet. I can't think of a better way to aid the internet than to help all of us that spend too many hours running down bogus, clueless, and broken domains, many of which are bad on their face. Jerry Trowbridge --at the Flying Pig Ranch From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 10:17:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id JAA12914; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:34:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from Thinkage.On.CA (thinkage.thinkage.on.ca [192.102.11.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id JAA12765 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (kgdykes@localhost) by thinkage (8.7.1(8.6.4)/Thinkage960219) id LAA02252; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:51:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:51:15 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Dykes Message-Id: <199711041651.LAA02252@Thinkage.On.CA> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: netcom bogus email addresses [user@[internal].ix.netcom.com] Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk the answer netcom customer support gave you about your address showing up in the form of username@[internal-machine-name].ix.netcom.com is so full of bullshit, i'm amazed such a tall pile of crap hasnt toppled on them. i'm going to forward this discussion to the Mailing-List Managers discussion list to see what they think. Perhaps i'm naively out-to-lunch in believing that email addresses should be consistent and replyable. ask her (Lucy) to spell out "which headers" rather than saying obliquely "the headers" such vague non-specific answers are the bastion of help desks that know not what is going on. my software will give priority to "Reply-To" over "From". but your messages do not have Reply-To (or at least your message today did not). and if it happens to be the "Return-Path:" header she refers, then she is smoking good shit. That is not a header for client software to use. Her implication that it is the mailing-list software at fault is nasty at best. standard unix berkeley Mail and other mail client programs will use that same *useless* address from netcom if you do a 'reply' email function. secondly her implication that there is 'nothing they can do' about it is shear raving bunny doodoo. address rewriting at the gateway is done commonly all over the world to make addresses conform to a company-standard rather than reflect the internal topology of a private network. thirdly, they are in violation of an RFC or two about email and the internet. those very same random internal-machine addresses are NOT REPLYABLE and get bounced emails if they are used for replies. All email injected into the internet is supposed to have a replyable address. And to put the ONUS onto the innocent naive users of their service to configure a proper "Reply-To" address is also fecal. their software should test for the presence of the Reply-To, and if it is not there, then their gateway software should add/generate a valid one -- assuming their claim/belief that such a header is *so* necessary has any basis in reality. leave netcom. their incompetence is overshadowing AOL. hell, i'll even suspend my ban on aol subscriptions if you wish to use aol. -ken postmaster@thinkage.on.ca >Message-ID: <345E9348.595D@popd.ix.netcom.com> >Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 19:15:21 -0800 >From: Some User >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: Ken Dykes - Immoderator >Subject: Ken - Care to comment on this? >Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------34126ED74F67" > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >--------------34126ED74F67 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Ken, >I have been bitching at Netcom to try and get them to straighten out >their problems with return addresses. I received this today. Thought >you might like to comment on this. Feel free to respond direct to >Netcom as well. > >--------------34126ED74F67 >Content-Type: message/rfc822 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Disposition: inline > >Return-Path: >Message-Id: <199711040518.VAA15101@scotch.corp.netcom.com> >Subject: Re: NETCOM announcement >To: xxx@ix.netcom.com (Some User) >Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:18:43 -0800 (PST) >In-Reply-To: <345D3BD2.3CD0@popd.ix.netcom.com> from "Some User" at Nov 2, 97 06:49:54 pm >From: support@ix.netcom.com (NETCOM Technical Support) > >Some User writes: >> Return-Path: >> Message-ID: <345D3BD2.3CD0@popd.ix.netcom.com> >> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 18:49:54 -0800 >> From: Some User >> To: support@ix.netcom.com >> Subject: Re: NETCOM announcement >> References: <199710301305.SAA08993@ixmail2.ix.netcom.com> >> >> netcom-news@netcom.com wrote: >> > >> > >> > Dear Netcom Customer, >> > >> > We are pleased to inform you that Netcom has entered into a merger >> > agreement with ICG Communications, Inc... >> >> Great, now tell me when you're going to fix the problem with outgoing >> email addresses and I'll care. >> >> xxx@ix.netcom.com or >> xxx@ix5.netcom.com or >> xxx@ix12.netcom.com or >> xxx@ix21.netcom.com or >> xxx@ix32.netcom.com ? which is it today? >> > >Dear Some, > >Thank you for contacting NETCOM Technical Support. > >Your email address should be as you listed above: > > xxx@ix.netcom.com > >Some mailing lists have a problem with the NETCOMplete account system. >This stems from how the mailing list attributes a message to a subscribed >member. > >The NETCOMplete mail server is actually a collection of several different >machines. This means that in the headers, it will list one of the >machines which actually sent the message. All mail messages are still >listed with a return address of username@ix.netcom.com, though. > >The problem comes with how the mailing list check the sender's address. >Rather than looking at the return path of the message which would be the >username@ix.netcom.com, the list may take the actual name of the system >that sent the message and attributes this to the senders username making >it username@ix#.netcom.com. > >The username@ix#.netcom.com is different then the member list for >authorization to send the message out. As a result, it will bounce the >message back. NETCOM cannot correct this in any way. It is typically >necessary for the mailing list administrator to adjust how it reads the >senders email address. > >This problem can also occur in some third party email applications when a >return address is not specified by the sender. Please check to be sure >that you have a return address specified in your preferences area of your >mail client. > >If you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to >contact us again. > >- Lucy > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > _ _ > |_|_ |_| Email Technical Support > _ |_|_ NETCOM On-Line Communication Services, Inc. > |_| _|_| http://www.netcom.com/bin/webtech > |_| > 24-Hour Technical Support: (408) 881-1810 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--------------34126ED74F67-- From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 11:31:02 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id LAA04503; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from chiba.netxn.com (chiba.netxn.com [205.180.106.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id LAA04295 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:23:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from lsk (bak-ppp-5d.netxn.com [205.180.106.182]) by chiba.netxn.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10372; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:30:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <345F7636.7BB729E6@netxn.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 11:23:34 -0800 From: Linda Kennedy Organization: Linda Kennedy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Voorhis , "list-managers@GreatCircle.COM" Subject: Re: Building links to Articles in Archives on list X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <345EBEE5.EE02BEB3@netxn.com> <3.0.3.32.19971104111226.00bd2c30@armchair.mb.ca> <3.0.3.32.19971104130248.00be51b0@armchair.mb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Dave Voorhis wrote: > > Perhaps I am not clear on what you wish to do. Do you wish to create > Web pages that refer to individual posts, or do you wish to provide > searchable archives, or both? Both. Finding a way to refer on Bluedog's web pages directly to individual posts while not physically moving them onto our web site would be the first priority. With minimal financial resources, the cost of space and any unnecessary duplication of posts (stories) is a very real concern for me. Searchable archives?.....I'd be flyin high! Feet firmly planted on the ground, Linda 'Bluedog mismanager' Mailto:lindak@netxn.com lindak@netxn.com From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 11:36:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id KAA29580; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from onramp.armchair.mb.ca (onramp.armchair.mb.ca [198.163.115.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with SMTP id KAA29502 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 32627 invoked from network); 4 Nov 1997 18:59:04 -0000 Received: from dave.armchair.mb.ca (HELO dave) (198.163.115.50) by onramp.armchair.mb.ca with SMTP; 4 Nov 1997 18:59:04 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971104130248.00be51b0@armchair.mb.ca> X-Sender: dave@armchair.mb.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 13:02:48 -0600 To: Linda Kennedy From: Dave Voorhis Subject: Re: Building links to Articles in Archives on list Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <345F6B7F.8FD1C4AE@netxn.com> References: <345EBEE5.EE02BEB3@netxn.com> <3.0.3.32.19971104111226.00bd2c30@armchair.mb.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 10:37 AM 11/4/97 -0800, Linda Kennedy wrote: >My other thought on this issue is that I might be able to request that >my >server not compile these in the 'list' (not digest) area separately. I >do not >know if he has that option. At least in that way...each story would have >an >address of their own to link to manually. Perhaps I am not clear on what you wish to do. Do you wish to create Web pages that refer to individual posts, or do you wish to provide searchable archives, or both? It might be that what you're looking for is Hypermail (http://www.eit.com/software/hypermail/hypermail.html), which converts messages into Web pages. Of course, if your lists are hosted by your ISP rather than being on your own server, you'll have to convince your ISP to install and configure it. The Web pages it creates can be indexed by Glimpse or other engines local to your server, or you can simply allow the pages to be indexed by Alta-Vista and other Web searches. Dave Voorhis mailto:dave@armchair.mb.ca http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 11:42:56 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id LAA01608; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from chiba.netxn.com (chiba.netxn.com [205.180.106.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id KAA25017 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:37:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from lsk (bak-ppp-5d.netxn.com [205.180.106.182]) by chiba.netxn.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09081; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:44:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <345F6B7F.8FD1C4AE@netxn.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 10:37:51 -0800 From: Linda Kennedy Organization: Linda Kennedy X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Voorhis CC: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Building links to Articles in Archives on list X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <345EBEE5.EE02BEB3@netxn.com> <3.0.3.32.19971104111226.00bd2c30@armchair.mb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Dave Voorhis wrote: > As for the original question about searchable archives, here's what I did: > Detailed and wonderful instructions by Mr. Voorhis were in this space. Mr. Voorhis, Thank you for your gracious response. Unfortunately I do not have the resources nor the equipment necessary to utilize the answer. I am not a major corporation. Merely a single mother with a special needs child and a hopped up 486. So, I guess it may well be cut and paste for me. I had hoped to avoid the extra work...but I am not a stranger to hard work and don't mind working within my means. My other thought on this issue is that I might be able to request that my server not compile these in the 'list' (not digest) area separately. I do not know if he has that option. At least in that way...each story would have an address of their own to link to manually. Linda Kennedy 'Bluedog Societe mismanager' mailto:lindak@netxn.com From owner-list-managers-list Tue Nov 4 13:06:01 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id LAA11045; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sportsurf.net (sportsurf.net [192.41.36.58]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id LAA10971 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:59:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.204.56.156] (sss.pittsburgh.net [192.204.56.156]) by sportsurf.net (8.8.5) id MAA13567; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:59:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199711041959.MAA13567@sportsurf.net> Subject: Re: Building links to Articles in Archives on list Date: Tue, 4 Nov 97 16:09:04 -0000 x-sender: mark@sportsurf.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Mark Rauterkus To: "Linda Kennedy" , "Dave Voorhis" cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi, There are two strong workarounds that come to mind here. I wouldn't mind starting a thread either... Reactions welcomed. #1. A searchable archive is nice, but aggressive FAQ authoring and of course, making that FAQ document available, can squash most of the need for a searchable archive. I'd suggest an auto-reply FAQ as a great way to start. Mention that document in your welcome messages and let people know whenever it gets updated. Putting one FAQ onto a www site (one per list) is a snap too. It is much better than making the whole blasted list web-residing. #2. Then there are other services, for free, that can help with the searchable archives too: Findmail.com Reference.com Listz.com -------------- Mark Rauterkus, Publisher, S.S.S. http://www.sportsurf.net mrauterkus@sportsurf.net http://www.SportSurf.Net/FootNotes FootNotes: Mac E-book authoring and distribution environment with built-in multi-media, lan, web, internet and e-mail capabilities. -------------- From owner-list-managers-list Wed Nov 5 17:31:54 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id QAA08109; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id QAA08099 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gb1-rio.rio.nutecnet.com.br (gb1-rio.rio.nutecnet.com.br [200.240.31.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id CAA17995 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sharon.rio.nutecnet.com.br (sharon.rio.nutecnet.com.br [200.240.31.87]) by gb1-rio.rio.nutecnet.com.br (8.8.5/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id LAA15121 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:42:48 GMT Message-Id: <199711041142.LAA15121@gb1-rio.rio.nutecnet.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Daniel Marques" To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:42:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Majordomo on another machine Reply-to: dmarques@rio.nutecnet.com.br X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm running Majordomo for 4 months, and it never gave me problems. Now I want to change Majordomo to another server, the problem is that I already have some lists running under the address "list@rio.nutecnet.com.br" and if I change it to another server called gb4-rio, that isn't the primary server for my domain, my users will receive a "reply-to" field like this: "list@gb4-rio.rio.nutecnet.com.br". Do you know how I can change that ? Thanks ! --- Daniel Marques NutecNet Rio http://www.rio.nutecnet.com.br Administrador do Sistema - dmarques@rio.nutecnet.com.br Tel: 55-21-5151155 Fax: 55-21-5151144 Av Presidente Vargas 3.131 sala 503 Teleporto Cep 22210-030 - Rio de Janeiro - Rj - Brasil From owner-list-managers-list Wed Nov 12 14:29:13 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id OAA25476; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:23:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from leslie.mystery.com (leslie.mystery.com [198.202.235.7]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id OAA25357 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:22:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from angus.mystery.com (gabe@angus.mystery.com [198.202.235.1]) by leslie.mystery.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09576 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 17:23:22 -0500 Received: (from gabe@localhost) by angus.mystery.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15911 for List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 17:23:21 -0500 From: Gabe Helou Message-Id: <199711122223.RAA15911@angus.mystery.com> Subject: Pro-Spammers mailing list To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 17:23:21 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: gabe@mystery.com X-URL: http://www.mystery.com/~gabe/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I'm still deciding whether I'm amused or annoyed . . . From: MarketServ Consumer Relations Subject: NEW: AdNetwork - Pro-Bulk Mail Listserver ADNETWORK on join-adnetwork@marketserv.com AdNetwork - The Bulk Email Advertising Support Forum on MarketServ.Com AdNetwork is an unmoderated discussion list for those in support bulk email, aka email SPAM or commercial email advertising. It is also a list that welcome opens advertisements to the general interest, UNLESS it is political or adult content. This is not a group that supports USENET cross-posting habits. The creation and maintainance of this list does not signify that we practice bulk mail advertisements on our domain or through our ISPs. The simple operation of this listserver does not violate our TOS and AUA for our ISP nor our domain-hosting ISP. This is a PRO-bulk email listserver. Any individuals causing trouble or posting negative attitudes toward commerical email are considered in violation of the acceptable posting policy, and their ISP systems admin will be notified of their misposting and abuses to our listserver. Termination will also occur immediately. Advertising is permitted, if not welcomed! We do not allow posting by non-subscribers, and if this is attempted at any time we will contact your systems admin of your ISP with your abuse(s). NOTE: This list is ad-hoc. Material for discussion is not provided by the list manager/owner. To join the AdNetwork List, send a message addressed to: join-adnetwork@marketserv.com with NOTHING in the subject or header necessary. There is NO digest version or archive. You will recieve via automessaging our listserver rules and guidelines. Contact the owner with any questions: Owner: Jon Hulett listmaster@marketserv.com MarketServ Domain Admin From owner-list-managers-list Wed Nov 12 19:42:56 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id TAA00579; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from almond.elite.net (almond.elite.net [205.199.220.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id TAA00572 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:42:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from almond.elite.net (ddave@almond.elite.net [205.199.220.5]) by almond.elite.net (8.8.3/ELITE) with SMTP id TAA00786 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:43:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:43:18 -0800 (PST) From: Dave/WebMaster X-Sender: ddave@almond.elite.net To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Pro-Spammers mailing list In-Reply-To: <199711122223.RAA15911@angus.mystery.com> Message-ID: X-NoArchive: yes X-SPAM: SPAM me and die! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Gabe Helou wrote: > I'm still deciding whether I'm amused or annoyed . . . > > From: MarketServ Consumer Relations > Subject: NEW: AdNetwork - Pro-Bulk Mail Listserver > > ADNETWORK on join-adnetwork@marketserv.com [...] > Advertising is permitted, if not welcomed! We do not allow posting > by non-subscribers, and if this is attempted at any time we will > contact your systems admin of your ISP with your abuse(s). Hmmm... A closed list. Guess they don't want anyone to SPAM them. :-) I propose we all join and post the UCE that is lining our inboxes. I don't see mention that it has to be your own personal advertising. Of course, it wouldn't take much to personalize a bunch of SPAM. ;) Regards, Dave/WebMaster Join www.cauce.org | Join Joke-L Help ban SPAM on the Internet | Listserv `````````````````````````````````````````````````` confirmed nukes... From owner-list-managers-list Thu Nov 13 10:14:43 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id JAA12127; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexus.pigsfly.com (www.pigsfly.com [207.226.166.137]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id JAA11944 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:48:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pslfl5-52.gate.net ([199.227.131.52]) by nexus.pigsfly.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-40113U100L100S0) with SMTP id AAA181; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:52:49 +0000 From: jtlist@pigsfly.com (Jerry Trowbridge) To: Dave/WebMaster Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Pro-Spammers mailing list Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:50:09 GMT Organization: Flying Pig Ranch Reply-To: jtlist@pigsfly.com Message-ID: <346e3d18.2775240@pop.pigsfly.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:43:18 -0800 (PST), Dave/WebMaster wrote: >Hmmm... A closed list. Guess they don't want anyone to SPAM them. :-) I >propose we all join and post the UCE that is lining our inboxes. I don't >see mention that it has to be your own personal advertising. Of course, >it wouldn't take much to personalize a bunch of SPAM. ;) >From my read, it looks like they like spam just fine, as long as its not prurient or political, so I don't think they'd take too kindly to cauce.org postings. I was particularly amused by the disclaimers. It sounded like an announcement for a Communist Party meeting in the 1930s. There doesn't seem to be any prohibition against religious postings. Anyone for the "church of the anti-spam?" - Jerry Trowbridge --at the Flying Pig Ranch From owner-list-managers-list Thu Nov 13 14:59:03 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id OAA02404; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:43:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id OAA26053 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id LAA14152 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:54:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from imail.safety1st.com ([206.119.32.177]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with SMTP id OAA23931 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:54:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by imail.safety1st.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 0A10D480; Wed, 8 Nov 95 15:04:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:57:20 -0500 Message-ID: <0A10D480.@safety1st.com> From: rgarraud@safety1st.com (Ron Garraud) Subject: help To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I sent the first email by mistake. Here's the problem: Users had no problem to subscribe to the baan list. But whenever I tried to send a message to baan@safety1st.com; the message did not go out to the list members. Is it a misconfiguration issue? Thanks for your help. Ron From owner-list-managers-list Thu Nov 13 15:05:29 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id OAA02673; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id OAA26116 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:10:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id LAA13495 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from imail.safety1st.com ([206.119.32.177]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with SMTP id OAA06147 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:47:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by imail.safety1st.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 0A10BA40; Wed, 8 Nov 95 14:57:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:50:12 -0500 Message-ID: <0A10BA40.@safety1st.com> From: rgarraud@safety1st.com (Ron Garraud) Subject: Help To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hello, Here's my configuration: OS: hpux 10.10 MTA: Netscape Messanging Server Perl: 5.0003 majordomo: 1.94.4 majordomo.aliases: baan: "|/home/majordomo/wrapper resend -l baan baan-list" baan-list: :include:/home/majordomo/lists/baan baan-outgoing: :include:/home/majordomo/lists/baan "|/home/majordomo/wrapper archive2.pl -a -m -f /home/majordomo/lists/archive/baan/baan.archive" owner-baan: rgarraud@safety1st.com baan-owner: rgarraud@safety1st.com baan-request: rgarraud@safety1st.com baan-approval: rgarraud@safety1st.com baan.config: # admin_passwd [word] (baan.admin) # The password for handling administrative tasks on the list. admin_passwd = # administrivia [bool] (yes) # Look for administrative requests (e.g. subscribe/unsubscribe) and # forward them to the list maintainer instead of the list. administrivia = yes # advertise [regexp_array] (undef) # If the requestor email address matches one of these regexps, #then # the list will be listed in the output of a lists command. Failure # to match any regexp excludes the list from the output. The # regexps under noadvertise override these regexps. advertise << END END # announcements [bool] (yes) # If set to yes, comings and goings to the list will be sent to the # list owner. These SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE event announcements are # informational only (no action is required), although it is highly # recommended that they be monitored to watch for list abuse. announcements = yes # approve_passwd [word] (baan.pass) # Password to be used in the approved header to allow posting to # moderated list, or to bypass resend checks. approve_passwd = baan.pass # archive_dir [absolute_dir] (undef) # The directory where the mailing list archive is kept. This item # does not currently work. Leave it blank. archive_dir = # comments [string_array] (undef) # Comment string that will be retained across config file rewrites. comments << END END # date_info [bool] (yes) # Put the last updated date for the info file at the top of the # info file rather than having it appended with an info command. # This is useful if the file is being looked at by some means other # than majordomo (e.g. finger). date_info = yes # date_intro [bool] (yes) # Put the last updated date for the intro file at the top of the # intro file rather than having it appended with an intro command. # This is useful if the file is being looked at by some means other # than majordomo (e.g. finger). date_intro = yes # debug [bool] (no) # Don't actually forward message, just go though the motions. debug = no # description [string] (undef) # Used as description for mailing list when replying to the lists # command. There is no quoting mechanism, and there is only room # for 50 or so characters. description = # digest_archive [absolute_dir] (undef) # The directory where the digest archive is kept. This item does # not currently work. Leave it blank. digest_archive = # digest_issue [integer] (1) # The issue number of the next issue digest_issue = 1 # digest_maxdays [integer] (undef) # automatically generate a new digest when the age of the oldest # article in the queue exceeds this number of days. digest_maxdays = # digest_maxlines [integer] (undef) # automatically generate a new digest when the size of the digest # exceeds this number of lines. digest_maxlines = # digest_name [string] (baan) # The subject line for the digest. This string has the volume and # issue appended to it. digest_name = baan # digest_rm_footer [word] (undef) # The value is the name of the list that applies the header and # footers to the messages that are received by digest. This allows # the list supplied headers and footers to be stripped before the # messages are included in the digest. This keyword is currently # non operative. digest_rm_footer = # digest_rm_fronter [word] (undef) # Works just like digest_rm_footer, except it removes the front # material. Just like digest_rm_footer, it is also non-operative. digest_rm_fronter = # digest_volume [integer] (1) # The current volume number digest_volume = 1 # digest_work_dir [absolute_dir] (undef) # The directory used as scratch space for digest. Don't change # this unless you know what you are doing digest_work_dir = # get_access [enum] (list) /open;closed;list/ # One of three values: open, list, closed. Open allows anyone # access to this command and closed completely disables the command # for everyone. List allows only list members access, or if # restrict_post is defined, only the addresses in those files are # allowed access. get_access = list # index_access [enum] (open) /open;closed;list/ # One of three values: open, list, closed. Open allows anyone # access to this command and closed completely disables the command # for everyone. List allows only list members access, or if # restrict_post is defined, only the addresses in those files are # allowed access. index_access = open # info_access [enum] (open) /open;closed;list/ # One of three values: open, list, closed. Open allows anyone # access to this command and closed completely disables the command # for everyone. List allows only list members access, or if # restrict_post is defined, only the addresses in those files are # allowed access. info_access = open # intro_access [enum] (list) /open;closed;list/ # One of three values: open, list, closed. Open allows anyone # access to this command and closed completely disables the command # for everyone. List allows only list members access, or if # restrict_post is defined, only the addresses in those files are # allowed access. intro_access = list # maxlength [integer] (40000) # The maximum size of an unapproved message in characters. When # used with digest, a new digest will be automatically generated if # the size of the digest exceeds this number of characters. maxlength = 40000 From owner-list-managers-list Thu Nov 13 15:13:36 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id PAA06383; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:07:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from CVOBKU.CVO.MP.USBR.GOV (cvobku.cvo.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.189.4]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id PAA06356 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:07:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by CVOBKU.CVO.MP.USBR.GOV (MX I5.0) id 25; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:08:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:08:41 -0800 From: "Henry W. Miller" To: rgarraud@safety1st.com CC: list-managers@GreatCircle.com, henrym@SACTO.MP.USBR.GOV Message-ID: <009BD3CE.7D87AAE4.25@CVOBKU.CVO.MP.USBR.GOV> Subject: RE: help Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"rgarraud@safety1st.com" "Ron Garraud" 13-NOV-1997 15:03:58.64 > To: MX%"list-managers@GreatCircle.com" > CC: > Subj: help > On Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:57:20 -0500, rgarraud@safety1st.com (Ron Garraud) said: rgarraud@safety1st.com (Ron Garraud) writes: > I sent the first email by mistake. > > Here's the problem: > > Users had no problem to subscribe to the baan list. But whenever I > tried to send a message to baan@safety1st.com; the message did not go > out to the list members. > > Is it a misconfiguration issue? > Probably. > Thanks for your help. > > > Ron > Ron, You've given us absolutely nothing to go on. You'll have to provide more information. We don't usually discuss platform specific issues here, but maybe someone can steer you to the correct resource. -HWM From owner-list-managers-list Sat Nov 15 14:10:33 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id NAA11078; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id NAA11067 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:46:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from taz.ulster.net (taz.ulster.net [208.148.73.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id SAA07942 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 18:45:52 -0800 (PST) From: cecb@mhv.net Received: from mhv.net (root@spice.mhv.net [199.0.0.21]) by taz.ulster.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA20620 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:47:03 -0500 Received: from default (fishkill-port14.mhv.net [205.244.248.34]) by mhv.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10499 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:46:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199711140246.VAA10499@mhv.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:37:47 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Blocking all attachments X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I wonder if anyone here can tell me if a listowner using listserv software can completely block all email messages which contain attachments. There's a mailing list to which I belong which has ongoing problems with members who continue to send *very* large attachments (meg or more) which causes great problems to list subscribers. Could the listowner solve the problem by just bouncing *all* messages to the listserv with any attachment? Inquiring minds would like to know.... Thanks From owner-list-managers-list Sat Nov 15 14:13:49 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id NAA10802; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id NAA10793 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:43:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from newfed.frb.gov (newfed.frb.gov [198.3.221.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id GAA09661 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 06:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from FRB.GOV (umailfwd@localhost) by newfed.frb.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id IAA10837; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:27:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jmb@FRB.GOV) Received: from kryten.frb.gov by frbgate.FRB.GOV (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA09632; Thu, 13 Nov 97 08:32:03 EST Received: from localhost.frb.gov (localhost.frb.gov [127.0.0.1]) by kryten.frb.gov (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11244; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:31:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jmb@kryten.frb.gov) Message-Id: <199711131331.IAA11244@kryten.frb.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: kryten.frb.gov: localhost.frb.gov [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Dave/WebMaster Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Pro-Spammers mailing list In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:43:18 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:31:15 -0500 From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >> From: MarketServ Consumer Relations >> Subject: NEW: AdNetwork - Pro-Bulk Mail Listserver >> >> ADNETWORK on join-adnetwork@marketserv.com > >[...] >> Advertising is permitted, if not welcomed! We do not allow posting >> by non-subscribers, and if this is attempted at any time we will >> contact your systems admin of your ISP with your abuse(s). > >Hmmm... A closed list. Guess they don't want anyone to SPAM them. :-) I >propose we all join and post the UCE that is lining our inboxes. I don't >see mention that it has to be your own personal advertising. Of course, >it wouldn't take much to personalize a bunch of SPAM. ;) join using an alias for /dev/null. send them all the spam you receive. if they remove you, resubscribe under another alias for /dev/null. ;) jmb From owner-list-managers-list Sat Nov 15 14:29:08 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id NAA11760; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id NAA11748 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id SAA29455 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from imail.safety1st.com ([206.119.32.177]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with SMTP id VAA02163 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:01:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by imail.safety1st.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 0A4064C0; Fri, 10 Nov 95 21:11:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:05:32 -0500 Message-ID: <0A4064C0.@safety1st.com> From: rgarraud@safety1st.com (Ron Garraud) Subject: help To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk majordomo.aliases: baan: "|/home/majordomo/wrapper resend -l baan baan-list" baan-list: :include:/home/majordomo/lists/baan baan-outgoing: :include:/home/majordomo/lists/baan "|/home/majordomo/wrapper archive2.pl -a -m -f /home/majordomo/lists/archive/baan/baan.archive" owner-baan: rgarraud@safety1st.com baan-owner: rgarraud@safety1st.com baan-request: rgarraud@safety1st.com baan-approval: rgarraud@safety1st.com I have no problem to subscribe to the list. However, I was having problem to send mail at baan@safety1st.com. Two days later, I received the following message from the postmaster: This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: The Program-Deliver module couldn't deliver the message to one or more of the intended recipients because their delivery program(s) failed. The following error messages provide the details about each failure: The account for baan@safety1st.com has an invalid UNIX user ID (baan) . Was it misspelled or removed? The message was not delivered to: baan@safety1st.com Please reply to Postmaster@hp-d350.safety1st.com if you feel this message to be in error. My question is: Do I need create a Unix account for each mailing list that I have created? I did not recall in the past that I had to create an Unix account for a mailing list. By the way, I'm using Netscape Messaging server. Please let me know what to do next? Thanks for your help. Ron From owner-list-managers-list Sat Nov 15 14:29:46 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id NAA11267; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) id NAA11256 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from postfree.atos.be (postfree.atos.be [195.26.64.99]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id IAA03090 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 08:09:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by postfree.atos.be (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15202 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:11:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from tarifa.marben.be(172.20.0.254) by postfree.atos.be via smap (V2.0) id xma015200; Fri, 14 Nov 97 17:11:22 +0100 Message-ID: <346C779F.17B3147D@atos.be> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:09:03 +0100 From: Jean-Pierre Morant Reply-To: jpm@atos.be Organization: Atos SA-NV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Spammers are not always careful ... Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------msECEC193305486BEB77973942" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------msECEC193305486BEB77973942 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5F7AB8D2D12F1478F71A7268" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5F7AB8D2D12F1478F71A7268 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... for instance InternetEnterprises.com that does not protect itself against relaying mail. I hate them not for sending spam but mainly 'cause they claim that a reply with remove in the body/subject will remove the user from the spam list when the originator adress is a fdake and I postmaster end up with thousand of messages "non-delivery report : invalid user" in my mailbox. Now understand me well this is just for information indeed not for retaliation .... -- Jean-Pierre Morant c/o ATOS S.A./N.V. La vie serait tellement Boulevard du Souverain,400, Vorstlaan plus facile 1160 Bruxelles Si seulement Belgium nous avions les sources.... http://www.atos.be jpm@atos.be --------------5F7AB8D2D12F1478F71A7268 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Jean-Pierre Morant Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Jean-Pierre Morant n: Morant;Jean-Pierre org: ATOS SA-NV adr: 400 Bd du Souverain / Vorstlaan;;;Bruxelles / Brussel;;1160;BELGIUM email;internet: jpm@atos.be title: System Engineer tel;work: + 32 (0)2 663 1130 tel;fax: + 32 (0)2 663 1199 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE end: vcard --------------5F7AB8D2D12F1478F71A7268-- --------------msECEC193305486BEB77973942 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIIKWwYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIKTDCCCkgCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC CMkwggQPMIIDeKADAgECAhA2iyuXzOKEiRNiw4pxCaZLMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMGIxETAP BgNVBAcTCEludGVybmV0MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE0MDIGA1UECxMrVmVy aVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBDQSAtIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3Vic2NyaWJlcjAeFw05NzA5MDUwMDAw MDBaFw05ODAzMDcyMzU5NTlaMIIBCzERMA8GA1UEBxMISW50ZXJuZXQxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZl cmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTQwMgYDVQQLEytWZXJpU2lnbiBDbGFzcyAxIENBIC0gSW5kaXZpZHVh bCBTdWJzY3JpYmVyMUYwRAYDVQQLEz13d3cudmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkvQ1BT IEluY29ycC4gYnkgUmVmLixMSUFCLkxURChjKTk2MSYwJAYDVQQLEx1EaWdpdGFsIElEIENs YXNzIDEgLSBOZXRzY2FwZTEbMBkGA1UEAxMSSmVhbi1QaWVycmUgTW9yYW50MRowGAYJKoZI hvcNAQkBFgtqcG1AYXRvcy5iZTBcMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA0sAMEgCQQDaFLSZBXX5Df/N YFUlXb3asyQioqio+uqbvjPDYFE+/AUpcS5DOqJNxeB0UQtMf8DNwNzysZshcR1yRLTdX+Cv AgMBAAGjggFdMIIBWTAJBgNVHRMEAjAAMIGvBgNVHSAEgacwgDCABgtghkgBhvhFAQcBATCA MCgGCCsGAQUFBwIBFhxodHRwczovL3d3dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vQ1BTMGIGCCsGAQUFBwIC MFYwFRYOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4wAwIBARo9VmVyaVNpZ24ncyBDUFMgaW5jb3JwLiBieSBy ZWZlcmVuY2UgbGlhYi4gbHRkLiAoYyk5NyBWZXJpU2lnbgAAAAAAADARBglghkgBhvhCAQEE BAMCB4AwgYYGCmCGSAGG+EUBBgMEeBZ2ZDQ2NTJiZDYzZjIwNDcwMjkyOTg3NjNjOWQyZjI3 NTA2OWM3MzU5YmVkMWIwNTlkYTc1YmM0YmM5NzAxNzQ3ZGE1YzRlNDE0MWJlYWRiMmJkMmU4 OTIwNmFjNmFmN2Q3MTE0OTk2YTFiYTQzZjRlNTk3NjU0MTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFAAOBgQB2 mjWtSZvklgcNVoznph82+0k3mLfm8nblm7a2AW6//Rmz89WKcgjXKsflcsVl+nGvssRCfnOG rvtFaFXYTQCEZseio6V8IxVs7a881pE/PbTqzzsBBoS32fwVWThgSyqBuh7ol63JtYV0OxSs jZ5RixCEDXMm3nAGYsRIBY8sIDCCAn0wggHmoAMCAQICFHUTa1jzgGlXdaaiTVkQTZzqdkrx MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAgUAMF8xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5j LjE3MDUGA1UECxMuQ2xhc3MgMSBQdWJsaWMgUHJpbWFyeSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhv cml0eTAeFw05NzA2MjQwNzAwMDBaFw05OTA2MjQwNzAwMDBaMGIxETAPBgNVBAcTCEludGVy bmV0MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE0MDIGA1UECxMrVmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3Mg MSBDQSAtIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3Vic2NyaWJlcjCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkC gYEAthSmz03QBQ3YyiPQb6q0KZJjjiz4b5bXLp12SxGxNo1XycP9HMa6/h4IujPKleq+41vN Bqi3eR1EKu1z8rFSg2gQcGSR1z5r+fddnRRDm26XRZiBR9Ety927ctdMP3Gq4kDyVDm8Fu7P fOy62z9sKrMWsYYSna6TNNW41dD3PqkCAwEAAaMzMDEwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgEGMA8G A1UdEwQIMAYBAf8CAQEwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAgUAA4GBAJIMS+m6k83/ 2uZg/Z5kA2YVL1Y8OExoSkfF86uPJdlmQ3NDFXNEvhRIgVp3DMx66tmxvPKL/xGx3xRQSNxl HQuJ+aFeSFJv7bVr9LgITDjwuYlnKQ/g4Df3puvU9NVCqV39veeefBvnT4UtBKFgLoW46+L6 7xQFJhUYVW8ToR1xMIICMTCCAZoCBQKkAAABMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAgUAMF8xCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE3MDUGA1UECxMuQ2xhc3MgMSBQdWJsaWMg UHJpbWFyeSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw05NjAxMjkwMDAwMDBaFw05OTEy MzEyMzU5NTlaMF8xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE3MDUG A1UECxMuQ2xhc3MgMSBQdWJsaWMgUHJpbWFyeSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTCB nzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEA5Rm/baNWYS2ZSHH2Z965jeu3noaACpEO+jgl r0aIguVzqKCbJF0NH8xlbgyw0FaEGIeaBpsQoXPftFg5a27B9hXVqKg/qhIGjTGsf7A01480 Z4gJzRQR4k5FVmkfeAKA2txHkSm7NsljXMXg1y2He6G3MrB7MLoqLzGq7qNn2tsCAwEAATAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQIFAAOBgQBSc7qaVdzcP4J9sJCYYiqCTHYAbiU91cIJcFcBDA93Hxih+xxg DqB1O0khQf6nXC1MQknT/yjYjOqd/skH4neCUyPeVfPORJP6+ky9yjbzW2aynsjyDF5e1KG0 IQkzyjtZ/JLCOPyt2ZYk4C36oyn1M2h4TrS8n2k14qiYlHM7xDGCAVowggFWAgEBMHYwYjER MA8GA1UEBxMISW50ZXJuZXQxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTQwMgYDVQQLEytW ZXJpU2lnbiBDbGFzcyAxIENBIC0gSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJzY3JpYmVyAhA2iyuXzOKEiRNi w4pxCaZLMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgfTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3 DQEJBTEPFw05NzExMTQxNjA5MDRaMB4GCSqGSIb3DQEJDzERMA8wDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgw IwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFMIVkuwIAssvpumQYlf2us37RMAbMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABECa E41GTUOvVYjLmp8+D2PpLF7Mt153Oz5IjPDeh8kxMn+go6+4dTVNSoqICHO4Yo6g0QZHyku1 ysKFHZaPivOn --------------msECEC193305486BEB77973942-- From owner-list-managers-list Sat Nov 15 15:16:01 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id PAA20273; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from quilla.tezcat.com (quilla.tezcat.com [204.128.247.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id PAA20183 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:09:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.230.56.44] (adamb.tezcat.com [206.230.56.44]) by quilla.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id RAA06812 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:10:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711152310.RAA06812@quilla.tezcat.com> Subject: Re: Blocking all attachments Date: Sat, 15 Nov 97 17:11:27 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Adam Bailey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On 11/13/97 4:37 PM CST, cecb@mhv.net wrote... > I wonder if anyone here can tell me if a listowner >using listserv software can completely block all >email messages which contain attachments. Most proper MLM packages have some way to do this. It depends on what you're using. -- Adam Bailey | Chicago, Illinois -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| "Do not take life too seriously; adamb@tezcat.com | you will never get out of it alive." adamkb@aol.com | - Elbert Hubbard Finger for PGP | http://www.tezcat.com/~adamb From owner-list-managers-list Sat Nov 15 15:30:08 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id PAA21445; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from plaidworks.com (plaidworks.com [207.167.80.66]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id PAA21415 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:22:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.167.80.70] (zamboni.plaidworks.com [207.167.80.70]) by plaidworks.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18656 ; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:24:26 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711140246.VAA10499@mhv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:01:28 -0800 To: cecb@mhv.net, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: Blocking all attachments Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 1:37 PM -0800 11/13/97, cecb@mhv.net wrote: > I wonder if anyone here can tell me if a listowner > using listserv software can completely block all > email messages which contain attachments. Look in majordomo.cf for $admin_body. And add in: /^Content-Disposition:.*attachment/ -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) From owner-list-managers-list Sat Nov 15 15:59:16 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970926-1) id PAA23845; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.unicom.com (garcon.unicom.com [192.108.105.37]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-971021-1) with ESMTP id PAA23824 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:49:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chip@localhost) by mail.unicom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09047 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:51:02 -0600 (CST) From: Chip Rosenthal Message-Id: <199711152351.RAA09047@mail.unicom.com> Subject: Re: Blocking all attachments To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:51:00 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "Chuq Von Rospach" at Nov 15, 1997 03:01:28 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Chuq Von Rospach writes: > Look in majordomo.cf for $admin_body. And add in: > > /^Content-Disposition:.*attachment/ Cool. Can we get something similar setup on this list to stop up those Netscape S/MIME signature turds? half :-) -- Chip Rosenthal * Unicom Systems Development http://www.unicom.com/ Outlaw junk email * Support CAUCE http://www.cauce.org/ Spammers ate my mail server! http://www.unicom.com/anti-relay/ From owner-list-managers-list Sat Nov 15 16:13:44 1