On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:58:22 -0800 (PST)
Jeffrey Goldberg <email@example.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, murr rhame wrote:
>> At the risk of being even more pro-spam that you, I expressly allow
>> limited on-topic commercial posts.
Many of my members have commercial interests in the field, either for
their own careers, or companies they own. I explicitly disallow
commercial postings, with the relevant text from the list charter being:
Note from the List Owner:
The list has a number of members who work professionally in the
field. Their presence raises certain concerns for intellectual
property, trade secrets, copyrights, etc for the list and for list
postings. The below should give an overview of this area, what I
expect of list members, commercially affiliated or otherwise, as well
as the intended character of the list.
As list owner I expect all list members to be responsible for what
they post. The rules are obvious: If there is something your company
or affiliations does not want publicised, then don't post it to the
list. If you see one of your commercial or other partners post
something to the list that shouldn't have been, then don't bring it up
on the list -- take it to direct email. Raising such issues on the
list will be used as an excuse for removing membership.
Please do not use this as an alibi to start adding disclaimers to your
posts. You are the members on this list, not your companies. If it
isn't your opinion don't write it. If you are reporting someone else's
opinion, state it as such.
If a post is written as a representative of your company or
affiliation, then identify it as such. Adding a signature which
identifies your affiliation is not enough. That can be too easily
automated and is not an explicit statement of representation. A
leading paragraph identifying the source or representation placed
above all the textual body including the attributions, will do (keep
Commercial grandstanding, advertisements, chest puffing, or other
forms of promotion are not appreciated on the list and will be
rewarded with removal of membership. The list is an expressly
non-commercial venue. It is intended as an intelligent and free
discussion by peers in the field, both hobbyist and professional.
Membership of the list is not a right. You are here as my guests. This
is a private list run as a personal contribution to the field. I trust
the list's membership to behave accordingly.
Posting to the list may be considered analagous to having a
conversation in my living room using bull horns while the windows are
open and everyone has tape recorders. There is no secrecy, or control
of the dissemination of data once it is posted.
And on a final note: Attempting to invalidate or discourage a
discussion or avenue of investigation on the list because it strays
too close to a commercial project's field or other such interest will
be deemed an intentional personal insult and due cause for permanent
removal from the list along with all associates.
J C Lawrence
> Me, too. The vendor (and list participant) asked me first. We worked
> out a few restrictions, and I agreed. They can make a general
> announcement once every 3 months. And if a reasonable answer to some
> query would refer to their product, they should feel free to answer
> the query (noting who they are). I had a few complaints after the
> first announcement, and posted my rationale asking people to complain
> to me if they were unhappy with my decision. It was largely
I've had off-list toast-wars (not up to the level of flames) for the few
members I have who regularly walk the edge of the line in regard to
commercial postings. Those members don't exact cross the line (they
can't, its a hand moderated list), but they regularly approach the line
and I equally regularly trim their posts back from the line (which is
obvious to the list membership as I annotate the messages I trim).
>> We've discussed allowing ads with various restrictions before on
>> listmanagers. I've averaged less than one abuse of comercial posting
>> privileges a year. Most of those abuses have been a matter of
>> degree: excessive length, excessive frequency, off-topic yard-sale
>> type post from a regular participant.
> Again, that was the bulk of my discussion with the vendor in question.
My main offender is a local company who was instrumental in arranging
hosting for the list servers etc. They are young, eager, aggressive,
and media hungry. The CEO has stated that my posting requitements
(which are more than just the above) are, "prissy", but has not
attempted to act or persuade against them.
The company sponsors and collects articles and columns in regard to the
field for their website and then advertise those texts on my list in
less than a subtle self-promoting manner (even after I've castrated
their postings down). This has raised hackles with the rest of the list
who freely admit that my handling of the scene as moderator is
acceptable, but seem to think that I and the list are being abused by
said company persistently walking the borders of acceptability.
Funny really. I've got list members who flame when they think someone
is abusing or wasting their moderator's time.
J C Lawrence
---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
firstname.lastname@example.org He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.