Great Circle Associates Firewalls
(November 1996)
 

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Subject: Re[2]: DMZ
From: "Daniel Salenger" <dsalenger @ dttus . com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 09:59:11 CST
To: Joseph Hoopfer <joeh @ us . checkpoint . com>, Firewalls @ GreatCircle . COM

     
I have received many, MANY responses to this issue.  Perhaps I should clarify a 
bit more.  I am aware of the ability for Firewall-1 (and others) to establish 
additional subnets emanating from the firewall.  My client is concerned (I think
correctly) that this might present a dual performance hit on a single firewall 
as external HTTP traffic hits the wall from one end and Electronic Commerce 
traffic is passed from the WWW server (again hitting the same firewall) to the 
internal network.  (the performance of one firewall is a real issue at this 
client and a second one is being considered but it would operate in a parallel 
architecture to the previous one, not supplementing the security before the 
router)

My original question stands:  My preference is for a second internal firewall in
front of the internal router.  My client is convinced that their internal router
will suffice as a second firewall.  This router supposedly has so many 
'properly' configured rules as to protect itself.  My concerns are:

1.  Denial of service from a compromised WWW server to the router can paralyze 
internal traffic.

2.  The router does not have good audit trail capabilities and it would not be 
easy for external auditors to review ("are these new rules in the table really 
necessary?")

3.  Additional rules slow a router down at a linear rate.

My primary concern here is how well a router can protect itself.  Though 
suggestions for different network architectures are appreciated, I assure you 
that I have considered many if not most of them.  Any additional help would be 
appreciated.

Dan Salenger
Deloitte & Touche LLP
dsalenger @
 dttus .
 com

my last message was:
     
     I am working with a client that has the following configuration:
     
     
     {Internet}--[ISP]--[Firewall-1]-[WWW server]-[router]--[internal net]
     
     Due to prior conversations and observations from this list, I consider 
     WWW servers to be less than secure.  Though I promote the 
     Dual-Firewall DMZ approach, I am uncertain about the dependence that 
     my client may be placing on the router (as a second firewall) in this 
     diagram.
     
     To add detail:
     - The primary firewall will allow HTTP, HTTPS, and SMTP inbound 
     - Only HTTP and HTTPs will be allowed to the web server from the 
     Internet.
     
     My train of thought is that if the WWW server is compromised 
     (Firewall-1 does not seem to look at the 'insides' of the HTTP packet 
     traffic to look for harmful commands and buffer overflows, etc...) 
     then an attacker would have a launching point for the next phase of 
     the attack which would be against the router.  Any thoughts or 
     opinions concerning this situation?  Thank you for any assistance.
     
     Dan Salenger
     Deloitte & Touche LLP
     dsalenger @
 dttus .
 com
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
P. Joseph Hoopfer
Systems Engineer
CheckPoint Software
     
joeh @
 us .
 checkpoint .
 com
     
810 673-1952
     


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