My appolgies in advance to Brent and the other denizens on this list
for raising the noise level on this subject but I feel, as a personal afront,
this should not stand unchallenged...
In this matter, I am speaking solely for myself and my personal
opinion and NOT for Internet Security Systems, Inc.
I took this last week to research issues brought up in these two
messages. I asked other engineers as Internet Security Systems not to reply
to these messages until I had completed my research and had replied myself.
On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 Todd Graham Lewis <lists @
reflections .
mindspring .
com> enscribed thusly:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Feeney, Tim wrote:
> > Well since Mr. Klaus refuses to play by the rules I would like to see
> > all mail from iss.net bounced back to them. I realize that some people
> > want to see what they have to offer but there are plenty of "HELP" posts
> > to this list that Mr. Klaus can put his (and his company's) two cents
> > in. He instead insists on posting non-solicited marketing dribble to a
> > list that already has quite a volume. Any comments or seconds?
I reviewed the archives for the firewalls mailing list for all of 1996
looking for postings by Chris. In that last year there have been a grand
total of 18 messages. Five of these were "Re:'s" replying to someone else's
questions or information. Several of them were providing security related
information or commentary on such subjects as the InfoWorld firewalls
comparison and Dan Farmers security survey. One was a announcement that
ISS would make an alpha version of some of our development software available
free to combat the raging SYN flood problem that was occuring at that time.
Several ISP's used that software to successfully abate crippling SYN flood
attacks. Two messages, in December, were product announcements.
Chris has played by the rules. He posted a grand total of two
"Announcements" clearly labeled as such and both on products very relevant
to security and firewalls. One is even a product being actively used to test
firewalls. Commercial, yes, but no more commercial than hundreds (yes I
said hundreds and I mean hundreds) of other commercial messages that have
appeared on this list.
His one "sin" was that one of the messages was excessive and he
should have posted a URL in a short message rather than the longer
announcement. When I mentioned that matter to him he agreed that he had
made a mistake on that and that he was wrong there. His mistakes are ones
of enthusiasm more than anything else. He is rightfully proud of what
we have created and continue to create.
He has actually behaved much better than some of the other slime
who have attempted to use underhanded, thinly veiled excuses, to get their
commercial messages across. Let's NOT forget "Dr Fredrick Cohen, PhD" and
his piles and piles of messages, some relevant, some not, some trivial to
the point of ridiculous, and some even destructive (remember his suggestion
to "cut the wire to the record head on the floppy drive to make it read
only" :-) ), that were used as a vehicle to plaster us with his advertisement
signatures. That continued unabated for months until Brent was finally
forced to pull the plug on Ol' Freddy... His nonsense got so bad it prompted
some of the members of this list to include signatures which read "So you've
got a PhD, just don't touch anything". That was well over a year ago
(probably before your time Todd, so you're excused) and I STILL see that
sig line showing up all over the place.
We are talking about two, TWO, (yes Todd even you can count to two)
announcements, both of which were topic relavent, for new products which
could well have been of interest to the participants on this list. And
unlike many other messages posted to this list, they were clearly and
appropriately labeled as "Announcements".
> I've never found Klaus to be helpful at anything other than selling his
> product and treating his employees like crap. The second point is
> really unrelated to the motion, but mentioning it makes me feel better
> about seconding that Klaus be banished.
I read this message last Tuesday and went on an immediate hunt to
figure out just what you were talking about. Every employee I talked to
at ISS wants me to ask you some burning questions...
WHAT DRUGS ARE YOU ON AND WHERE CAN WE BUY SOME?!?!?
Since you are obviously not high on reality, we've all come to the
conclusion that you must be participating seriously in some better living
through modern chemistry! I even checked with some of our ex-employees.
I've had three whole engineers out of our entire staff leave for other,
bigger, positions. Nobody seems to know what the F*CK you are talking
about. What's more, most of us have never heard of you. A few of us,
myself included, did hear you speak in front of the Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
meeting a while ago. My opinion of you at this point is that you have
hit a new all time low and you've started to dig!
Since all of the messages Chris has posted have been on security and
firewalls related topics and the vast majority have been non-commercial, I've
come to the conclusion that your first point is either a bald-face lie or
sheer blatant ignorance (or, I suspect, BOTH).
Where you came up with that "second" point is totally and absolutely
beyond any of us! Seeing as the vast majority of ISS employees don't even
know who the F*CK you are (and those of us who do now wish we didn't), this
claim is total and complete bullshit! You have absolutely no knowlege
of the working conditions at ISS (which in my 30 years of participation
in Corporate America are by far some of the best).
Perhaps there IS another motive here though. Several times in the
past, Mindspring has been soliciting for engineers at the Atlanta Unix Users
Group. Being one of the resident "gurus" there for over eight years, I have
also been looking for engineers to add to my staff at those meetings. Some
of you even asked me, one night, why I hadn't signed on over at Mindspring.
Perhaps this has more to do with your recruitment attempts than anything to
do with this list. Make it sound like ISS is not such a good place to work
for and maybe you would have a better shot at recruiting around AUUG?
> __
> Todd Graham Lewis Linux! Core Engineering
> Mindspring Enterprises tlewis @
mindspring .
com (800) 719 4664, x2804
On Wed, 1 Jan 1997 Todd Graham Lewis <lists @
reflections .
mindspring .
com> enscribed thusly:
> On Tue, 31 Dec 1996, Robert Hanson wrote:
> > no disrespect intended to you Todd, yet....
Naw - go ahead. Intend the disrespect he deserves... He's earned it!
> > kill! maime! shoot! my goodness... we are all capitalist pigs... what
> > makes anyone better than anyone else standing next to them...
> I not only like corporations, I work for one. Believe it or not, I don't
> even have a problem with vendors discussing their products on the list.
> Those who offer help to newbies, contribute to technical discussions,
> etc., are more than entitled to mention once in a while "BTW (disclaimer:
> I work for 'em), our product X is designed to address this problem", or
> even to say "In light of the discussion last month, I thought that the
> list might be interested in our new product, SuperBlammo4000."
> What I don't appreciate are bone-headed sales pitches coming from people
> who never participate in the discussions on the list, and whose sole
> purpose is to use the list as a free advertising channel.
Chris Klaus is not a sales person. Quite the contrary, he's an
engineer, who wrote and released the "shareware" version of ISS long before
Dan Farmer announced SATAN. That version is still available from CERT.
He does have the common sense NOT to post just for the sake of posting.
He posts when he has something to contribute to the list, either to an
existing discussion or providing new information. This list would be
a terribly empty (but noisy) place if anyone with commercial information
were forbidden to mention it in mixed company.
Chris Klaus has made serious contributions to the state of the
art in network security. This is far more than anyone can say about you.
> I don't think that this is too far off the mark, and the fact that Klaus
> is a complete asshole just makes the decision that much easier.
Off the mark? You aren't even on the same plain of reality.
Chris Klaus doesn't know you and you don't know him. I do know both of
you and as far as assholes go, I would rather work FOR Chris Klaus than
WITH an asshole like you!
You really need to see a doctor about that case of optical rectitus.
It's begining to look like it's on steroids now. It's no wonder that, having
had your head up your ass so deep and for so long, that you now have such
a shitty outlook on life.
> (BTW, I'm sorry I wasn't able to participate in the discussion about Linux
> firewalls. I was visiting family during the holidays.)
> __
> Todd Graham Lewis Linux! Core Engineering
> Mindspring Enterprises tlewis @
mindspring .
com (800) 719 4664, x2804
Regards,
Mike
--
Michael H. Warfield | Voice: (770)395-0150x123 (770)552-4823
Senior Engineer | Fax: (770)395-1972
Internet Security Systems, Inc. | E-Mail: mhw @
iss .
net mhw @
wittsend .
com
41 Perimeter Center East, Suite 660 | http://www.iss.net/
Atlanta, GA 30328 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471 http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/pubkey.txt
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