From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 3 22:57:55 2002 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [66.89.201.78]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB386195AC4 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smoe.org (ident-user@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smoe.org (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g246vRDH016963 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:57:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from jeffw@localhost) by smoe.org (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g246vODl016960 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:57:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:57:24 -0500 From: Jeff Wasilko To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: heads-up: mediaone.net domain going away 3/15 Message-ID: <20020304015724.A15801@jane.smoe.org> Mail-Followup-To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Archive-Number: 200203/1 X-Sequence-Number: 74 The mediaone.net domain is going away 3/15. Mediaone.net users are getting new addresses in the attbi.com domain, but there's no way to tell what the user's email address will be (since the @home customers got first dibs, lots of Mediaone.net customers had to change their usernames). You might wanna prod your subscribers to make sure they have moved their subscriptions to their new addresses. Also, please feel free to pass this on to other list-owners you may know... -jeff From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Mar 4 17:08:07 2002 Received: from bingo.va1.corp.loudcloud.com (spongebob.va1.corp.loudcloud.com [66.54.52.5]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84D5E195B52 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:08:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from loudcloud.com (gearloose.corp.loudcloud.com [192.168.7.238]) by bingo.va1.corp.loudcloud.com (8.11.3/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g251A5h10611 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:10:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C841A73.7090104@loudcloud.com> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:08:03 -0800 From: Michael Coxe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020205 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list managers Subject: FYI: Yahoo Groups has been down most of the day Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200203/2 X-Sequence-Number: 75 Not that I care much, but I know they've been surveying list managers about pay options (pay for no spam, etc). I wonder if this outage is releated to sotware changes for supporting this new (to them) option. I run 4 low volume lists there, though my biggie (700 subscribers, 50-70 messages per day) is on a majordomo server. - michael From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 00:10:42 2002 Received: from scifi.squawk.com (glock.squawk.com [208.176.124.157]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D144E1959E1 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:10:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from toshiba.scifi.squawk.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by scifi.squawk.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50B663501C; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:10:31 -0500 (EST) X-America-Has-Resolve: yes X-Message-Flag: Microsoft Outlook is insecure. Upgrade your Mail Program Now! Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: njs@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:10:17 -0500 To: Anastasios Kotsikonas , mc@loudcloud.com (Michael Coxe) From: Nick Simicich Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com (list managers) In-Reply-To: <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> References: <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200203/3 X-Sequence-Number: 76 When I saw that listproc was going open source, I was sort of pleased - I have managed mailing lists that ran under Listserv for some time, and now under Listproc, and I had a sentimental spot in my heart for it. There are a whole bunch of things it does just really, really well. But I run this stuff as a hobby, from my home system, and I could not imagine paying for a MLM, and I also was in the situation of not quite fitting into their "Lite" license (including that minor issue of not having source). So it was never an option for my home system. So when I heard that listproc was open source now, I ran off and grabbed a copy, and began trying to install it. I grabbed the stuff off of the sourceforge site, and started following directions to do the installation. I blew it by not following the directions closely enough, and then started doing things step by step. Finally, I got to a point where the instructions seemed to be calling for a section that was not there, the tar of text files. I could not find them. There was some indication that I might not need them (there was one point in the doc where they implied that you would only need the text files if you were going to run the test suite which they said up front was not included with the released source. I got through compiling on Linux (I needed to write one patch that was rather minor, a one liner involving a call to va_arg with a char - the new instructions say that you call with an "int" and cast the output to a char, because of argument promotion) but other than a lot of warning messages, I had no issues and got the compile and what they called the binary install done. But the issue at the end was that I could not get it to work. My belief is that the stuff available on the open source site is not complete - that is, the source does not contain all of the pieces that are actually required to do an installation of listproc. You need a set of text files (and sample config files would be nice) to actually do an installation, and the listproc sources don't contain them. When you look at the instructions, at some point, once you have a clean compile, they tell you to get a copy of an installation, which it still seems you have to pay for unless you are a member. The text files include, I believe, command responses, the text that is returned by an info command, and some other things like that. I may well be wrong about this --- but I did an installation using what was labeled as the stable source off of sourceforge, and things are failing, and in so far as I can analyze the problem, this seems to be the issue, missing files. I sent a note off to the support list, but it is too soon to tell if I will get an answer yet or not. I do note that the sample config files are not included with the source package either, and you are going nowhere fast without them. However, the main config was published a few days ago on the support list and I grabbed a copy. (Someone else is doing an install from source). This allowed me to get far enough to create a list, but this does not allow me to do other things with the list, like subscribe people to it. Bummer. But, as noted here, if you have an existing license, the new sources might be a good thing for you. If you do not, it may not be possible to start with the sources on sourceforge and arrive at a working listproc. As I continue to look for a replacement for my much modified Majordomo 1, listproc was tempting, for sentimental reasons if nothing else. However, Mailman might well be the winner. Or I could just have screwed up something. But my belief is that if you go to sourceforge looking for the sources to try and do a from scratch listproc install, you are going to feel burned at the end of the process. (Or maybe you are smarter than I am, in that case, help.) If someone knows better than I do, please enlighten me. I was really hoping that we would have an industrial strength open-source mailing list manager available. And I was hoping that I could replace my aging Majordomo 1 installation with Listproc. But I don't want to run around scrounging for stuff to try to run the installation - if the sources and support files are not all in one place, I may just run something else. If my diagnosis is correct, and the people who prepare custom installs want to keep doing it, they just want to say, "Our product is open-source," well, I'll use something else. When you go to the site, you see a pointer to builds and the source. If you are lazy like I am, you check the builds first, and this is all it says on the page: http://listproc.sourceforge.net/builds.html >If you are interested in becoming a CREN member, or if you are interested in >purchasing a pre-compiled version of CREN-ListProc, contact Jim Reynolds, >CREN System Administrator. From the build instruction under the source page: http://listproc.sourceforge.net/source/BUILD.txt >No existing ListProc Installation: > > If you do not have an existing ListProc install the safest thing is > to get one from us and install and configure it according to the > instructions, and play with it a bit. ListProc depends on a number > of text files being installed and configured correctly. Do this > even if you are making a port to a new system---just don't run any > of the binaries before you've untarred your new ones according to > the instructions above. > > It would also be a good idea to look at the recently changed files > in the the source text directory; config has almost certainly been > changed, and you may want to merge those changes in to customize > new features. This, I think, supports my conclusion. If you don't have an installation, you need to get one, which means you either need to be a CREN member or you need to purchase one. In either case, I am out in the cold trying to use listproc. At 08:45 AM 2002-02-15 -0500, Anastasios Kotsikonas wrote: >I just saw CREN's announcement to abandon their re-write effort, 9.0. >When I left the project I had hoped it would get the attention it >deserved. Nonetheless, I think this is good news. I hope the community >will take care of the product. I will go around announcing to all >6.0x registered users that the 8.2_09 source code is now available! > >tasos > > > > > If you want to take a look-see/use/contribute-to an industrial > > strength mailing-list manager, CREN's ListProc was has been > > open-sourced and made available via Sourceforge. > > > > http://listproc.sourceforge.net/index.html > > > > - michael -- War is an ugly thing, but it is not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill Nick Simicich - njs@scifi.squawk.com From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 08:36:45 2002 Received: from imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk (imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.179]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52BF01959EA for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [195.92.168.141] (helo=tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk) by imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16k6JL-00011M-00 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:36:39 +0000 Received: from modem-627.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.210.115] helo=oemcomputer) by tmailb1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16k6JK-0005pW-00 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:36:38 +0000 Reply-To: From: "Martin MacLeod" To: Subject: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:36:52 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Disposition-Notification-To: "Martin MacLeod" X-Archive-Number: 200203/4 X-Sequence-Number: 77 From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 09:55:12 2002 Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C73D1959EA for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ee-nt.climber.org ([12.236.47.35]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020310175511.VDVO1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@ee-nt.climber.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:55:11 +0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020310094533.02824e40@mail.attbi.com> X-Sender: steveeckert@mail.attbi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:50:55 -0800 To: Nick Simicich From: SRE Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com (list managers) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> References: <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Archive-Number: 200203/5 X-Sequence-Number: 78 At 12:10 AM 3/10/02, Nick Simicich wrote: >I was really hoping that we would have an industrial strength open-source mailing list manager available. Have you looked at Majordomo2 ? It's technically not released, or even in beta, but I've been using Mj2 for a couple dozen lists for several years now. Lots of stuff (like per-user moderation) that Mj1 didn't have. I'm certain you're enough of a techie to check out the source using CVS, but the code snapshot tarballs may not be up to date. Start at http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/#mj2 SRE mailto:eckert@climber.org | http://www.climber.org/eckert/ Info on peak climbing email lists mailto:info@climber.org Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 16:21:32 2002 Received: from scifi.squawk.com (glock.squawk.com [208.176.124.157]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FC31959E3 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from toshiba.scifi.squawk.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by scifi.squawk.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48DC33507D; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:20:38 -0500 (EST) X-America-Has-Resolve: yes X-Message-Flag: Microsoft Outlook is insecure. Upgrade your Mail Program Now! Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310190534.0e856060@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: njs@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:08:53 -0500 To: SRE From: Nick Simicich Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com (list managers) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020310094533.02824e40@mail.attbi.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200203/6 X-Sequence-Number: 79 At 09:50 AM 2002-03-10 -0800, SRE wrote: >At 12:10 AM 3/10/02, Nick Simicich wrote: > >I was really hoping that we would have an industrial strength > open-source mailing list manager available. > >Have you looked at Majordomo2 ? I was on the developers list for quite a while. It seemed that Mj2 was not ready for prime time and might never be. >It's technically not released, or even in beta, but I've >been using Mj2 for a couple dozen lists for several years now. >Lots of stuff (like per-user moderation) that Mj1 didn't have. Hmmmm....mine does. Which is one of the reasons I am looking to replace it. It is hacked beyond recognition and I want to have something that I can stop playing with. -- War is an ugly thing, but it is not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill Nick Simicich - njs@scifi.squawk.com From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 16:47:31 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (unknown [144.139.71.251]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5431959F1; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:47:27 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brent@mycroft.greatcircle.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310190534.0e856060@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020310190534.0e856060@127.0.0.1> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:47:17 +1100 To: Nick Simicich , SRE From: Brent Chapman Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com (list managers) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Archive-Number: 200203/7 X-Sequence-Number: 80 At 7:08 PM -0500 3/10/02, Nick Simicich wrote: >At 09:50 AM 2002-03-10 -0800, SRE wrote: >>At 12:10 AM 3/10/02, Nick Simicich wrote: >> >I was really hoping that we would have an industrial strength >>open-source mailing list manager available. >> >>Have you looked at Majordomo2 ? > >I was on the developers list for quite a while. It seemed that Mj2 >was not ready for prime time and might never be. I switched all the GreatCircle.COM lists (including List-Manglers) over to Mj2 a about 3 months ago. We've been pretty happy with it. The only area where we've had some difficulties has been with digests; I haven't had time to dig into it yet, but the digest code seems somewhat flaky (one of our more active digests, for example, keeps getting stuck in a time warp, with old messages reappearing in the digest). I'd have to say that the Mj2 documentation is already far better than the Mj1 documentation ever was... In my opinion, about all that Mj2 needs in order to be "released" is for somebody to package it up into the common distribution formats (Redhat .rpm and Debian .deb, to begin with). -Brent -- Brent Chapman From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 17:16:42 2002 Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC27195ADD for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from user-112vubs.biz.mindspring.com ([66.47.249.124] helo=attitude.queernet.org) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16kEQK-0004Dd-00; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:16:25 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020310171207.0a91c3f8@gopostal.onlinepolicy.net> X-Sender: rogerk@queernet.org@gopostal.onlinepolicy.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:12:56 -0800 To: Nick Simicich , SRE From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com (list managers) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310190534.0e856060@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020310094533.02824e40@mail.attbi.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200203/8 X-Sequence-Number: 81 At 07:08 PM 3/10/2002 -0500, Nick Simicich wrote: >I was on the developers list for quite a while. It seemed that Mj2 was >not ready for prime time and might never be. I'm running a site with over 50,000 subscribers in 13 subdomains, with lists of 5,000 or so, quite happily on it. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 18:20:54 2002 Received: from scifi.squawk.com (glock.squawk.com [208.176.124.157]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7613195BB4 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:20:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from toshiba.scifi.squawk.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by scifi.squawk.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7BF3502A for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:20:50 -0500 (EST) X-America-Has-Resolve: yes X-Message-Flag: Microsoft Outlook is insecure. Upgrade your Mail Program Now! Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310202416.0e860c10@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: njs@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:04:43 -0500 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com (list managers) From: Nick Simicich Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310190534.0e856060@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020310190534.0e856060@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200203/9 X-Sequence-Number: 82 At 11:47 AM 2002-03-11 +1100, Brent Chapman wrote: >>>Have you looked at Majordomo2 ? >> >>I was on the developers list for quite a while. It seemed that Mj2 was >>not ready for prime time and might never be. > >I switched all the GreatCircle.COM lists (including List-Manglers) over to >Mj2 a about 3 months ago. We've been pretty happy with it. The only area >where we've had some difficulties has been with digests; I haven't had >time to dig into it yet, but the digest code seems somewhat flaky (one of >our more active digests, for example, keeps getting stuck in a time warp, >with old messages reappearing in the digest). I guess I'd consider this sort of problem to be a show stopper. This is the sort of thing I was referring to when I said that I thought it might not be ready for prime time. >I'd have to say that the Mj2 documentation is already far better than the >Mj1 documentation ever was... In my opinion, about all that Mj2 needs in >order to be "released" is for somebody to package it up into the common >distribution formats (Redhat .rpm and Debian .deb, to begin with). Well, it is not hard for doc to be better than MJ1's doc was. The point to me is that there are a huge number of MLMs out there at this point, whereas back when I picked Majordomo, there was MJ and Listproc and listproc, even the "lite" version had this whacky license. Now there are a whole bunch of free ones. I at least want to pick one where the basic functions are straightforward and reasonably reliable. So far I have installed listproc and listar and I have mailman - it turns out it comes with the Redhat system. Someone else has suggested sympa in private e-mail. I suspect that every one of these packages have "doc" that is better than MJ1. I guess I'm just indecisive. -- War is an ugly thing, but it is not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill Nick Simicich - njs@scifi.squawk.com From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 20:25:12 2002 Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0B1A195AD2 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:21:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from user-112vubs.biz.mindspring.com ([66.47.249.124] helo=attitude.queernet.org) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16kHJf-0001H4-00; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:21:43 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020310201730.044d5b28@gopostal.onlinepolicy.net> X-Sender: rogerk@queernet.org@gopostal.onlinepolicy.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:18:15 -0800 To: Nick Simicich , list-managers@greatcircle.com (list managers) From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310202416.0e860c10@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310190534.0e856060@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020310190534.0e856060@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200203/10 X-Sequence-Number: 83 At 09:04 PM 3/10/2002 -0500, Nick Simicich wrote: >At 11:47 AM 2002-03-11 +1100, Brent Chapman wrote: >>I switched all the GreatCircle.COM lists (including List-Manglers) over >>to Mj2 a about 3 months ago. We've been pretty happy with it. The only >>area where we've had some difficulties has been with digests; I haven't >>had time to dig into it yet, but the digest code seems somewhat flaky >>(one of our more active digests, for example, keeps getting stuck in a >>time warp, with old messages reappearing in the digest). > >I guess I'd consider this sort of problem to be a show stopper. This is >the sort of thing I was referring to when I said that I thought it might >not be ready for prime time. I've never seen this. And, like I said, we've been in production for about 6 months. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Mar 10 23:41:31 2002 Received: from BYHU.star2.net (star2.net [65.89.75.11]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E0B1959E2 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:41:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from big-dog.dogswood.com (unverified [67.226.74.108]) by BYHU.star2.net (Vircom SMTPRS 5.1.200) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:30:12 -0500 Received: (from jimo@localhost) by big-dog.dogswood.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id XAA17520 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:37:58 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:37:58 -0800 From: Jim Osborn To: list managers Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced Message-ID: <20020310233758.A17024@eskimo.com> References: <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1>; from njs@scifi.squawk.com on Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:10:17AM -0500 X-Archive-Number: 200203/11 X-Sequence-Number: 84 All this discussion of Majordomo and Listproc reminds me of the saga of MLManagement here at Eskimo, where I maintain a list (I'm just a user, not a sysadmin). When MJ became too much of a burden on Eskimo's resources, through inefficient delivery and lax dead-subscriber autoremoval, they tried Listproc. After fighting with LP for nearly a month, they finally switched to SmartList, which is built around Procmail. That was many years ago, maybe 1996 or 1998 and the system has been rock solid ever since. I can't speak for how hard it is to do the initial install, but knowing Procmail, I suspect it's not very hard. I know some of Eskimo's requirements were runtime efficiency, as they're a small ISP, and security. The best feature, from my list maintainer's perspective, is its ultimate configurability. With a few simple Procmail recipes I can do anything I've ever wanted to my list, from removing free-mailer advertisements, blocking html posts, moderating individual subscribers' posts, passing posters' test messages back to the poster without sharing them with the whole list, stripping excess quotation from the digest version, etc., as well as great spam blockage. The original poster wanted open source; you can't get more open source than SmartList... :) Cheers, Jim From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Mar 11 07:38:13 2002 Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 362B81959F1 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from user-112vubs.biz.mindspring.com ([66.47.249.124] helo=attitude.queernet.org) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16kRsD-0004PR-00; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:38:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311073335.04866d90@gopostal.onlinepolicy.net> X-Sender: rogerk@queernet.org@gopostal.onlinepolicy.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:34:31 -0800 To: Jim Osborn , list managers From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced In-Reply-To: <20020310233758.A17024@eskimo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200203/12 X-Sequence-Number: 85 At 11:37 PM 3/10/2002 -0800, Jim Osborn wrote: >The best feature, from my list maintainer's perspective, is its >ultimate configurability. Well, yes, for you and people like you, I'm sure. But I can assure you that 95% of my list owners couldn't code a procmail recipe if their lives depended on it. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Mar 11 16:13:40 2002 Received: from listproc.corp.loudcloud.com (olly.loudcloud.com [66.54.20.10]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5581959F1 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from loudcloud.com (gearloose.corp.loudcloud.com [192.168.7.238]) by listproc.corp.loudcloud.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2C0FdP10162 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:15:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C8D4832.5000206@loudcloud.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:13:38 -0800 From: Michael Coxe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020205 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list managers Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced References: <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200203/13 X-Sequence-Number: 86 Nick Simicich wrote: > My belief is that the stuff available on the open source site is not > complete - that is, the source does not contain all of the pieces that > are actually required to do an installation of listproc. You need a set > of text files (and sample config files would be nice) to actually do an > installation, and the listproc sources don't contain them. When you look > at the instructions, at some point, once you have a clean compile, they > tell you to get a copy of an installation, which it still seems you have > to pay for unless you are a member. The text files include, I believe, > command responses, the text that is returned by an info command, and > some other things like that. These files have been uploaded by the CREN people to the CVS tree @ http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/listproc/listproc/text.980325-1452.tar.Z I asked their representative to redo the tar file to have these included by default, and to also post a link to these files for those in the same state as Nick. - michael From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Mar 11 19:10:53 2002 Received: from dingo.home.kanga.nu (emu.kanga.nu [198.144.204.212]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46589195AAD for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kanga.nu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.home.kanga.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8105D2; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:10:43 -0800 (PST) To: Jim Osborn Cc: list managers Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced In-Reply-To: Message from Jim Osborn of "Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:37:58 PST." <20020310233758.A17024@eskimo.com> References: <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> <200202151345.g1FDjRY02144@csa.bu.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020309194152.02ee03f8@127.0.0.1> <20020310233758.A17024@eskimo.com> X-face: ?^_yw@fA`CEX&}--=*&XqXbF-oePvxaT4(kyt\nwM9]{]N!>b^K}-Mb9 YH%saz^>nq5usBlD"s{(.h'_w|U^3ldUq7wVZz$`u>MB(-4$f\a6Eu8.e=Pf\ X-image-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/kanga.face.tiff X-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:10:43 -0800 Message-ID: <17960.1015902643@kanga.nu> From: J C Lawrence X-Archive-Number: 200203/14 X-Sequence-Number: 87 On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:37:58 -0800 Jim Osborn wrote: > The original poster wanted open source; you can't get more open > source than SmartList... :) -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Mar 11 20:59:23 2002 Received: from scifi.squawk.com (glock.squawk.com [208.176.124.157]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35D3A1959E7 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:59:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from toshiba.scifi.squawk.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by scifi.squawk.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA64350EF for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:59:19 -0500 (EST) X-America-Has-Resolve: yes X-Message-Flag: Microsoft Outlook is insecure. Upgrade your Mail Program Now! Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311233239.0ea2a898@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: njs@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:53:22 -0500 To: list managers From: Nick Simicich Subject: Re: ListProc has been open-sourced In-Reply-To: <3C6AFC82.83ECB596@loudcloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200203/15 X-Sequence-Number: 88 Since I commented about this here in the first place, I thing I should mention that the listproc folks are working to make the text files available in an obvious place. There seems to be some confusion about exactly how it will be done. and apparently they were always available in CVS, there was just no instruction to go and look there. So, whereas things are still being put together, it does seem to be the listproc publisher's intention to make a complete set of installation files available. I have to admit that I was questioning this, but it is clear that I was premature. At 03:53 PM 2002-02-13 -0800, Michael Coxe wrote: >If you want to take a look-see/use/contribute-to an industrial >strength mailing-list manager, CREN's ListProc was has been >open-sourced and made available via Sourceforge. > > http://listproc.sourceforge.net/index.html > > - michael -- War is an ugly thing, but it is not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill Nick Simicich - njs@scifi.squawk.com From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Tue Mar 19 22:59:37 2002 Received: from plaidworks.com (www.plaidworks.com [64.81.78.180]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559F01959E4 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:59:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [64.81.78.186] (dsl081-078-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.78.186]) by plaidworks.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2K6xLF16381 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:59:21 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:59:18 -0800 Subject: FW: OT: orbz shutdown From: Chuq Von Rospach To: "list-managers@GreatCircle.COM" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020320011224.A27907@rom.oit.gatech.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="B_3099423560_11606655" X-Archive-Number: 200203/16 X-Sequence-Number: 89 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3099423560_11606655 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Fyi. -- Chuq Von Rospach, Architech chuqui@plaidworks.com -- http://www.chuqui.com/ Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial. ------ Forwarded Message From: Will Day Reply-To: willday@rom.oit.gatech.edu Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:12:24 -0500 To: Postfix list Subject: OT: orbz shutdown fyi ----- Forwarded message from ORBZ ----- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 03:15:49 +0000 From: ORBZ To: list@orbz.org Subject: Shutdown Here's the email that those of you with forward sight have been fearing since the inception of ORBZ. As of this moment, ORBZ is shutting down. DNS zones are going to stop resolving, the website will disappear and mail will stop working (so furthur discussion on this list probably won't work -- use NANAE). I don't want to disappear in silence like ORBS, so I'll try for as much description as possible without compromising my own position. I received an official court notice this afternoon to turn over all information relation to ORBZ accounts. This came from the 10th Judicial District court of the State of Michigan. It appears that ORBZ may be facing criminal charges for denial of service relating to the Lotus Domino issue. I was happy to try to weather any civil issues that may have come up, and I was committed to seeing it through. However, the threat of jail time is too much; I don't believe in this fight quite that much. Thank you all for all your support. I sincerely hope that someone with the goal of carrying on the mission of ORBZ pops up in another country with a less foreboding legal system. Anyone who has copies of the current zones may do with them what they wish. For those of you stuck without good spam filtering, please consider ORDB and SpamCop; they both provide excellent free solutions. Ian Gulliver ORBZ ---------------------------------------------- This message was sent to the opt-in ORBZ list. If you do not want to receive ORBZ messages, please send mail to list-unsubscribe@orbz.org. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Will Day Those who would give up essential Liberty, to @rom.oit.gatech.edu purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither O&E / Tech Support Liberty nor Safety. UNIX System Programmer - Benjamin Franklin, Penn. Assembly, Nov. 11, 1755 -> Opinions expressed are mine alone and do not reflect OIT policy <- ------ End of Forwarded Message --B_3099423560_11606655 Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="Attachment (application/pgp-signature document)" Content-disposition: attachment Content-transfer-encoding: x-uuencode begin 644 M+2TM+2U"14=)3B!01U`@4TE'3D%455)%+2TM+2T-5F5R"YN970O=V0O M<'5B:V5Y+F%S8PT-:5%#5D%W54)02F=O4GA$2&Q/9%!W,EID05%%53)!44%L M.'IV>7E1<5=W=')T,GA8+SA3:W=#5&-!.7E13CEC80U/>&U1>7-V,'8R:&M* M270R2D159#%K+WI*#2TM+2TM14Y$(%!'4"!324=.05154D4M+2TM+0T- end --B_3099423560_11606655-- From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Mar 22 16:18:35 2002 Received: from clifford.inch.com (ns.biglist.com [216.223.208.40]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 18FDA1959F2 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 99123 invoked by uid 501); 23 Mar 2002 00:18:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:18:28 -0500 From: Omar Thameen To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: yahoo contact? Message-ID: <20020322191828.A85526@clifford.inch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Archive-Number: 200203/17 X-Sequence-Number: 90 Hi, Just this week, Yahoo has stopped accepting the same volume of mail from some large mailing lists that I host. There's no error message - our server connects to Yahoo's SMTP server, then the connection is closed. This doesn't happen every time. I've observed success/failure between 1/1 and 5/1 since this started. Is there any Yahoo contact on this list, or can anyone give me a phone number to contact? I've tried emailing, but have received no response, and Customer Care simply won't put me through to any network or mail admin. I'm trying to work out some kind of whitelisting, or at least to find out more about how we need to delivery email to them to have it accepted. Even a 20% failure rate clogs the queue and slows delivery for the entire mailing. Thanks, Omar From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sat Mar 23 00:42:05 2002 Received: from clifford.inch.com (ns.biglist.com [216.223.208.40]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 85C011959E8 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 57824 invoked by uid 501); 23 Mar 2002 08:41:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:41:50 -0500 From: Omar Thameen To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: yahoo contact? Message-ID: <20020323034150.A55326@clifford.inch.com> References: <20020322191828.A85526@clifford.inch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020322191828.A85526@clifford.inch.com>; from omar@clifford.inch.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 07:18:28PM -0500 X-Archive-Number: 200203/18 X-Sequence-Number: 91 I finally got the correct contact info from Yahoo Customer Service, and once I emailed, they called me back within hours. Impressive. The email address was bulk mail inquiry at yahoo dash inc dot com The issue is that Yahoo de-prioritizes email from IP addresses which generate a lot of bounces. This persists for about 4 hours. Hope this helps someone. Omar On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 07:18:28PM -0500, I wrote: > Just this week, Yahoo has stopped accepting the same volume of mail > from some large mailing lists that I host. There's no error > message - our server connects to Yahoo's SMTP server, then the > connection is closed. This doesn't happen every time. I've observed > success/failure between 1/1 and 5/1 since this started.