From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Oct 3 12:33:12 2003 Received: from mx2.biglist.com (westside.urbanblight.com [216.223.208.40]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DE3125098A for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23955 invoked by uid 601); 3 Oct 2003 19:33:09 -0000 Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:33:09 -0400 From: Omar To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: delivery to hotmail - closing connection prematurely Message-ID: <20031003153309.A23763@westside.urbanblight.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Archive-Number: 200310/1 X-Sequence-Number: 1706 Hi, I'm seeing an unusual number of not-quite-complete connections when delivering to hotmail, causing our MTA to re-queue the message. The subscriber is getting duplicates because of this. For those of you familiar with qmail, here's a typical log entry: Oct 3 09:12:04 h01 qmail: 1065186724.676195 delivery 37903571: deferral: Connected_to_65.54.252.99_but_connection_died._Possible_duplicate!_(#4.4.2)/ This basically means that our MTA didn't receive the final confirmation from hotmail that the message was delivered, and so puts it back in the queue for re-try later. Is anyone else seeing this? Omar From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Oct 3 12:48:37 2003 Received: from yertle.kcilink.com (yertle.kcilink.com [216.194.193.105]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE89951A4D for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yertle.kcilink.com (Postfix, from userid 100) id C96362178C; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:48:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivek Khera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16253.53907.704574.218394@yertle.int.kciLink.com> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:48:35 -0400 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: delivery to hotmail - closing connection prematurely In-Reply-To: <20031003153309.A23763@westside.urbanblight.com> References: <20031003153309.A23763@westside.urbanblight.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.4 (patch 12) "Portable Code" XEmacs Lucid X-Archive-Number: 200310/2 X-Sequence-Number: 1707 >>>>> "o" == omar writes: o> This basically means that our MTA didn't receive the final confirmation o> from hotmail that the message was delivered, and so puts it back in the o> queue for re-try later. o> Is anyone else seeing this? I've been seeing *massive* backlogging going to hotmail for the last few weeks. I had to set up a dedicated mail queue just for it so it wouldn't block other mail from going out by hogging the entire 'active' queue. I'm sure there are reasonable number of such duplicate deliveries from not getting the acknowledgement of end of message back from them. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: khera@kciLink.com Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497 AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/ From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Oct 3 20:32:25 2003 Received: from mx2.biglist.com (westside.urbanblight.com [216.223.208.40]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5492A516EC for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 39210 invoked by uid 601); 4 Oct 2003 03:32:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:32:21 -0400 From: Omar To: Vivek Khera Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: delivery to hotmail / list for delivery issues? Message-ID: <20031003233221.B23763@westside.urbanblight.com> References: <20031003153309.A23763@westside.urbanblight.com> <16253.53907.704574.218394@yertle.int.kciLink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <16253.53907.704574.218394@yertle.int.kciLink.com>; from khera@kcilink.com on Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 03:48:35PM -0400 X-Archive-Number: 200310/3 X-Sequence-Number: 1708 On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 03:48:35PM -0400, Vivek Khera wrote: > >>>>> "o" == omar writes: > > o> This basically means that our MTA didn't receive the final confirmation > o> from hotmail that the message was delivered, and so puts it back in the > o> queue for re-try later. > > o> Is anyone else seeing this? > > I've been seeing *massive* backlogging going to hotmail for the last > few weeks. I had to set up a dedicated mail queue just for it so it > wouldn't block other mail from going out by hogging the entire > 'active' queue. Thanks for the data point. By backlogging, you mean they're deferring connections, or their servers aren't responding? On a semi-related note, is there another list manager mailing list that's more actively posted to? I'm interested in keeping on top of any issues that impact large mailing list deliveries, such as problems or changes at large ISPs. I've been on this list for years (in various email incarnations), but only once in a blue moon does someone post such a heads-up. If no such list exists, I'd be happy to create one should there be sufficient interest. Omar From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Oct 3 22:12:28 2003 Received: from kanga.nu (kanga.nu [157.22.12.214]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A3F50E10 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Delivery-date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:12:27 -0700 Received: from pcp03381044pcs.groton01.ct.comcast.net ([68.54.123.49]:63462 helo=yabbie) by kanga.nu with asmtp (Exim 4.22 #1 (Debian)) id 1A5eiJ-00070U-Iz; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:12:19 -0700 Received: from yabbie ([127.0.0.1] helo=kanga.nu) by yabbie with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A5eiE-00075o-00; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 01:12:14 -0400 To: Omar Cc: Vivek Khera , list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: delivery to hotmail / list for delivery issues? In-Reply-To: Message from Omar of "Fri, 03 Oct 2003 23:32:21 EDT." <20031003233221.B23763@westside.urbanblight.com> References: <20031003153309.A23763@westside.urbanblight.com> <16253.53907.704574.218394@yertle.int.kciLink.com> <20031003233221.B23763@westside.urbanblight.com> X-face: ?^_yw@fA`CEX&}--=*&XqXbF-oePvxaT4(kyt\nwM9]{]N!>b^K}-Mb9 YH%saz^>nq5usBlD"s{(.h'_w|U^3ldUq7wVZz$`u>MB(-4$f\a6Eu8.e=Pf\ X-image-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/kanga.face.tiff X-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 01:12:14 -0400 Message-ID: <27267.1065244334@kanga.nu> From: J C Lawrence X-Archive-Number: 200310/4 X-Sequence-Number: 1709 On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:32:21 -0400 omar wrote: > On a semi-related note, is there another list manager mailing list > that's more actively posted to? I'm not aware of one, and am on a half-dozen list operator related lists. > I'm interested in keeping on top of any issues that impact large > mailing list deliveries, such as problems or changes at large ISPs. I usually find such commentary first on the Mailman lists (I run Mailman), quickly followed up by a post here. If the problem is standards/technical in nature there may be a post or three on NANOG or ASRG, but that's not common. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Oct 6 07:46:34 2003 Received: from yertle.kcilink.com (yertle.kcilink.com [216.194.193.105]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D6D50C5B for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yertle.kcilink.com (Postfix, from userid 100) id 982D9217B2; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:46:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivek Khera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16257.32840.525148.125629@yertle.int.kciLink.com> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:46:32 -0400 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: delivery to hotmail / list for delivery issues? In-Reply-To: <20031003233221.B23763@westside.urbanblight.com> References: <20031003153309.A23763@westside.urbanblight.com> <16253.53907.704574.218394@yertle.int.kciLink.com> <20031003233221.B23763@westside.urbanblight.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.4 (patch 12) "Portable Code" XEmacs Lucid X-Archive-Number: 200310/5 X-Sequence-Number: 1710 >>>>> "o" == omar writes: o> Thanks for the data point. By backlogging, you mean they're deferring o> connections, or their servers aren't responding? Connection timeouts mostly, trickle of email going thru, and I limit outbound connections to hotmail to 5 simultaneous sessions. o> On a semi-related note, is there another list manager mailing list that's o> more actively posted to? I'm interested in keeping on top of any I think that if you create a new list for that purpose, you'll have just as much activity as you have here ;-) If nobody posts heads up here, then I doubt they would anywhere else... I'll make a mental note to post such observations here in the future. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: khera@kciLink.com Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497 AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/ From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Wed Oct 15 11:07:39 2003 Received: from ntegmfmc1.gulfcouncil.org (ntegmfmc1.gulfcouncil.org [216.202.125.194]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B355228B for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by NTEGMFMC1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4WTFC59N>; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:05:57 -0400 Message-ID: <15926A7A1869D31190CA0008C73354A1290B09@NTEGMFMC1> From: Steven Atran To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Get ready for an onslaught of polital spam in 2004 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:05:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Archive-Number: 200310/6 X-Sequence-Number: 1711 I have seen the future of politcal campaigning, and it's spelled S P A M. A few weeks ago there were local elections in New Orleans, Louisiana. Although I live and work in Florida, my office e-mail domain somehow got added to the e-mail campaign lists of the candidates. For weeks prior to the election, I and others in my office, along with my e-mail lists, were getting political ads via e-mail almost daily. These ads had fake return addresses and no remove lines. And it wasn't just one candidate. The e-mails were for at least two candidates. This was just for a small local election. 2004 is going to be a major election year in the U.S., and I suspect we are going to have to deal with a lot more e-mail politcal ads in the coming months, much of it mis-directed as were the New Orleans ads to me. Steven From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Wed Oct 15 13:23:41 2003 Received: from mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu (mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu [128.84.231.97]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C2BF52631 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saruman.ccmr.cornell.edu (saruman.ccmr.cornell.edu [128.84.249.196]) by mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FKNbXt026080; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:23:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (mitch@localhost) by saruman.ccmr.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FKNbKP029225; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:23:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: saruman.ccmr.cornell.edu: mitch owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:23:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitch Collinsworth To: Steven Atran Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Get ready for an onslaught of polital spam in 2004 In-Reply-To: <15926A7A1869D31190CA0008C73354A1290B09@NTEGMFMC1> Message-ID: References: <15926A7A1869D31190CA0008C73354A1290B09@NTEGMFMC1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200310/7 X-Sequence-Number: 1712 It's too bad I don't look at spam anymore. Now I won't know who not to vote for... -Mitch On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Steven Atran wrote: > I have seen the future of politcal campaigning, and it's spelled S P A M. A > few weeks ago there were local elections in New Orleans, Louisiana. > Although I live and work in Florida, my office e-mail domain somehow got > added to the e-mail campaign lists of the candidates. For weeks prior to > the election, I and others in my office, along with my e-mail lists, were > getting political ads via e-mail almost daily. These ads had fake return > addresses and no remove lines. And it wasn't just one candidate. The > e-mails were for at least two candidates. This was just for a small local > election. 2004 is going to be a major election year in the U.S., and I > suspect we are going to have to deal with a lot more e-mail politcal ads in > the coming months, much of it mis-directed as were the New Orleans ads to > me. > > Steven From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Wed Oct 15 15:10:43 2003 Received: from smtp3.mail.ctc.net (smtp3.mail.ctc.net [166.82.29.3]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725CC52480 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from katie.vnet.net (katie.vnet.net [166.82.1.7]) by smtp3.mail.ctc.net (Switch-3.1.2/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id h9FMAXI7004418 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (murr@localhost) by katie.vnet.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9FMAXh12170 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:10:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: katie.vnet.net: murr owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:10:33 -0400 (EDT) From: murr rhame To: Subject: Re: Get ready for an onslaught of polital spam in 2004 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sig: dc593be3c52eb1bfbdd3a84addde087a X-Archive-Number: 200310/8 X-Sequence-Number: 1713 On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: > It's too bad I don't look at spam anymore. Now I won't know who > not to vote for... > > -Mitch > > > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Steven Atran wrote: > > > I have seen the future of politcal campaigning, and it's > > spelled S P A M... Steve, It's been years since I've seen a spam on any mailing list I administer. You're not accepting email from strangers are you? - murr - From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Thu Oct 16 05:34:30 2003 Received: from ntegmfmc1.gulfcouncil.org (ntegmfmc1.gulfcouncil.org [216.202.125.194]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD47503ED for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 05:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by NTEGMFMC1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4WTFC6LQ>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:33:33 -0400 Message-ID: <15926A7A1869D31190CA0008C73354A1290B10@NTEGMFMC1> From: Steven Atran To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Get ready for an onslaught of polital spam in 2004 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:33:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Archive-Number: 200310/9 X-Sequence-Number: 1714 The mailing list that the campaign e-mail went to is an announcement only list, so that e-mail didn't get through. Nothing gets posted on that list it comes from me, but that doesn't stop some people from trying. It might be a problem for people who have interactive lists, though. Steven -----Original Message----- From: murr rhame [mailto:murr@vnet.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:11 PM To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Get ready for an onslaught of polital spam in 2004 Steve, It's been years since I've seen a spam on any mailing list I administer. You're not accepting email from strangers are you? - murr - From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Thu Oct 16 06:47:11 2003 Received: from yertle.kcilink.com (yertle.kcilink.com [216.194.193.105]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30BB5099A for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yertle.kcilink.com (Postfix, from userid 100) id 6AB3021C29; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:47:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivek Khera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16270.41304.280688.992553@yertle.int.kciLink.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:47:04 -0400 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Get ready for an onslaught of polital spam in 2004 In-Reply-To: References: <15926A7A1869D31190CA0008C73354A1290B09@NTEGMFMC1> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.4 (patch 12) "Portable Code" XEmacs Lucid X-Archive-Number: 200310/10 X-Sequence-Number: 1715 With spam being such a political hot-button these days, I'm sure a very public "outing" of these offenders will be very effective at getting it to stop, especially when the public knows that the spam is sent using techniques to hide its origins by stealing network services. Last fall, I had some local candidate spam me. After my second complaint to his ISP, his web site was yanked and all access cut off. This was two days before the election. Needless to say, he was not pleased. ;-) At least he didn't hide behined a criminal spammer. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: khera@kciLink.com Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497 AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/ From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Thu Oct 16 14:33:02 2003 Received: from mail3.pe.net (mail13.pe.net [64.38.64.103]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D4DF503A3 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lehel.goldmark.private (jpg.dsl.pe.net [64.38.71.68]) by mail3.pe.net (8.11.7/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9GLWlG25455 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from betty.goldmark.private ([192.168.1.51]) by lehel.goldmark.private with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1AAFjq-0005m5-00 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:32:54 -0700 Received: from jeffrey (helo=localhost) by betty.goldmark.private with local-esmtp (Exim 4.10) id HMVD6U-000A7X-00 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:32:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:32:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Goldberg X-X-Sender: jeffrey@betty.goldmark.private To: List Managers Mailing list Subject: [OT] Get ready for an onslaught of polital spam in 2004 In-Reply-To: <16270.41304.280688.992553@yertle.int.kciLink.com> Message-ID: References: <15926A7A1869D31190CA0008C73354A1290B09@NTEGMFMC1> <16270.41304.280688.992553@yertle.int.kciLink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200310/11 X-Sequence-Number: 1716 [my comments below have nothing to do with list management. This is an off-topic posting] On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Vivek Khera wrote: > With spam being such a political hot-button these days, I'm sure a > very public "outing" of these offenders will be very effective at > getting it to stop That will only work for candidates who have something to lose. But as a last ditch effort of a candidate who will very well behind in the polls, it might seem like a risk worth taking. > Last fall, I had some local candidate spam me. After my second > complaint to his ISP, his web site was yanked and all access cut off. > This was two days before the election. Needless to say, he was not > pleased. ;-) The same thing happened to Bill Jones who was running in primary elections to be the Republican party candidate for governor of California last year. He was a distant third behind Bill Simon (who won the primary) and Richard Riorden. I think Jones was polling at about 10%. At first I thought that the Jones campaign was subject to a joe-job. They used a criminal spammer, hijacking vulnerable relays in S. Korea. As soon as I got the spam, I called the campaign and offered to help track down who was "joe-ing" them. After a few phone calls and faxes, it became clear that it had been authorized by the Jones campaign. I was one of many who reported it to their hosting company, along with a large number of recipients in Canada. (Most hit addresses were in the .ca TLD) One of the many articles about the incident is http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/2996334.htm Anyway, sorry for the off-topic rambling, but I do believe that we will see more spam from desparate politicians, but not from those who have a lot to lose. -j -- Jeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice Hate spam? Boycott MCI! http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/anti-spam/mci/ From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Oct 19 01:20:09 2003 Received: from mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu (brahma.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.200]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5051051307 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 01:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vitesse.cs.utah.edu (vitesse.cs.utah.edu [155.99.197.71]) by mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E541F346E0 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 02:14:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vitesse.cs.utah.edu (Postfix, from userid 124) id 88B2311803F; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 02:14:08 -0600 (MDT) From: "Mark J. Bradakis" To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Quick Question Message-Id: <20031019081408.88B2311803F@vitesse.cs.utah.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 02:14:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Archive-Number: 200310/12 X-Sequence-Number: 1717 RFC 1035, I think it was, dating back a few years, specified that reverse DNS lookups were optional. Has a newer RFC made them mandatory? mjb. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Oct 19 08:37:38 2003 Received: from xuxa.iecc.com (xuxa.iecc.com [208.31.42.42]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4AB005052F for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25944 invoked by uid 100); 19 Oct 2003 15:37:31 -0000 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Path: xuxa.iecc.com!not-for-mail From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Newsgroups: iecc.lists.list-managers Subject: Re: Quick Question Date: 19 Oct 2003 11:37:31 -0400 Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <20031019081408.88B2311803F@vitesse.cs.utah.edu> X-Archive-Number: 200310/13 X-Sequence-Number: 1718 > RFC 1035, I think it was, dating back a few years, specified that > reverse DNS lookups were optional. Has a newer RFC made them > mandatory? No, but if you want to get your mail delivered, you'd better have one on your mail sending host. Networks from AOL on down now reject mail from no-rDNS hosts because the amount of non-spam that comes from them is vanishingly small. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://iecc.com/johnl, Sewer Commissioner "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Wed Oct 22 13:15:44 2003 Received: from itiescorp.interactivetelesis.com (unknown [63.251.117.4]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9171850600 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by itiescorp.interactivetelesis.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:15:42 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Johnson To: "'list-managers@greatcircle.com'" Subject: Looking for a server Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:15:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Archive-Number: 200310/14 X-Sequence-Number: 1719 I'm trying to start a list for some students and myself, and I'd like to avoid yahoo. Does anyone know of an available server that could provide list services? From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Thu Oct 23 12:39:07 2003 Received: from hail.he.net (hail.he.net [64.62.223.2]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BA52D5103E for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zzmain.zz.com ([66.122.8.66]) by hail.he.net for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:39:00 -0700 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023123822.052dfb48@hail.he.net> X-Sender: zz.com/buzz@hail.he.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:38:55 -0700 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: Buzz Lange Subject: Re: Looking for a server Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_32988454==.ALT" X-Archive-Number: 200310/15 X-Sequence-Number: 1720 --=====================_32988454==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Charles, >I'm trying to start a list for some students and myself, and I'd like to >avoid yahoo. >Does anyone know of an available server that could provide list services? If your list is small, try this.. http://www.softventures.com/htm/SVListblue.htm This does all the grunt work on your local computer and uses your ISP's SMTP for sending--with NO permission, NO fees, and NO endless phone calls required. It can be remote controlled via web browser it and allows moderation and digests. Even though it is not supported (last build was MAR 2003, author moving on..), it requires none of the geek tweaks Majordomo seems to continuously require. I couldn't find anyone who would run Majordomo (a) for no monthly fee and (b) in my lifetime. I run multiple instances (many lists) as a service on my desktop computer. One list cruises at 450 subs with 130 digest subs all user or moderator controlled. Minimal bother to my computer, and almost noise to my SMTP since all addresses are qualified here before sending. Sorry for the blow-out. SVList works and may solve your problem until you can find a Majordomo host. I was frustrated trying to find an ISP that had a three digit IQ for Majordomo and who would allow me to set up a list within an hour. Same day would have been nice. Hell, same week, even. I didn't want to start a UNIX box, unscramble Majordomo, make a few stupid mistakes, and stick my butt out there with a giant bullseye painted on it. I'm not a UNIX guru, and I am not up to date on all the defenses required to survive on the NET with an unknown like that. With my routers and existing network, SVList was a better choice. Your mileage may vary. Cheers, Buzz. -- Buzz Lange buzz@zz.com Sysadmin zz.com midnight!west Mojave Desert USA http://www.zz.com ..Space is very big. --Dan Quayle.. --=====================_32988454==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi Charles,

I'm trying to start a list for some students and myself, and I'd like to
avoid yahoo.
Does anyone know of an available server that could provide list services?

If your list is small, try this..

http://www.softventures.com/htm/SVListblue.htm

This does all the grunt work on your local computer and uses your ISP's SMTP for sending--with NO permission, NO fees, and NO endless phone calls required.  It can be remote controlled via web browser it and allows moderation and digests.  Even though it is not supported (last build was MAR 2003, author moving on..), it requires none of the geek tweaks Majordomo seems to continuously require.  I couldn't find anyone who would run Majordomo (a) for no monthly fee and (b) in my lifetime.  I run multiple instances (many lists) as a service on my desktop computer.  One list cruises at 450 subs with 130 digest subs all user or moderator controlled.  Minimal bother to my computer, and almost noise to my SMTP since all addresses are qualified here before sending. 

Sorry for the blow-out. SVList works and may solve your problem until you can find a Majordomo host. 

I was frustrated trying to find an ISP that had a three digit IQ for Majordomo and who would allow me to set up a list within an hour.  Same day would have been nice.  Hell, same week, even.  I didn't want to start a UNIX box, unscramble Majordomo, make a few stupid mistakes, and stick my butt out there with a giant bullseye painted on it.  I'm not a UNIX guru, and I am not up to date on all the defenses required to survive on the NET with an unknown like that.  With my routers and existing network, SVList was a better choice.  Your mileage may vary.

Cheers,
Buzz.
--
Buzz Lange                                            buzz@zz.com
Sysadmin zz.com           midnight!west
Mojave Desert USA                               http://www.zz.com

               ..Space is very big. --Dan Quayle..
 --=====================_32988454==.ALT-- From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Thu Oct 23 12:54:34 2003 Received: from mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (mailbox.onlinepolicy.net [64.62.161.194]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1D05117F for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roger (dsl081-190-082.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.190.82]) by mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33388168020; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:27:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" To: "'Buzz Lange'" , Subject: Re: Looking for a server Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:54:32 -0700 Message-ID: <7CEFA9CA4D5BE74586551915EC9C9C335274B2@consera1.corpnet.consera.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023123822.052dfb48@hail.he.net> Importance: Normal X-Archive-Number: 200310/16 X-Sequence-Number: 1721 > I couldn't find anyone who would run Majordomo (a) for no monthly fee and (b) in my lifetime.=20 > I was frustrated trying to find an ISP that had a three digit IQ for Majordomo=20 > and who would allow me to set up a list within an hour.=20=20=20 =20 Online Policy Group (http://www.onlinepolicy.org) is a non-profit service provider that will host lists for you in its own domains (either the general-purpose groups.onlinepolicy.net or the g/l/b/t-related groups.queernet.org) or in the lists.* subdomain of a domain you register.= =20=20 Setup time of the first list varies, frankly, with the volunteer workforce but has been taking less than a day. If you use your own domain, you get admin privileges in it so can do subsequent list setups. We use the alpha-but-stable Majordomo 2, and have had it in production for over two years. List services are free -- we are 100% donation-supported. (We will shill you for donations, of course.) And if you look for us on Slashdot or Wired, you'll see where we stand on content and free speech issues. (Hint: apparently the first ISP to refuse a DMCA takedown order based on false claims...)