From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Thu Feb 3 17:08:16 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from listproc.corp.opsware.com (olly.opsware.com [66.54.20.10]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FBF32C2B5 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.7.19] (tuner.corp.opsware.com [192.168.7.19]) by listproc.corp.opsware.com (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j1418F3h028590 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:08:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4202CAFE.4010603@opsware.com> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:08:14 -0800 From: Michael Coxe User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200502/1 X-Sequence-Number: 1828 Hi all, We've been running Listproc for a number of years now and it's time to migrate to something maintained & updated. Our use is typical for a mid-size company: about 300 lists, many low-volume alias replacements, maybe 100 with serious volume, a need for a range of subscription, posting & access controls depending on need, web access for list-owner management, archiving, web access to archives - both viewing & searching, mail2news/news2mail, RSS would be nice. We also dynamically build subscriber lists from LDAP datao but that's easily scripted. Privately I've run a Majordomo 2 server but would prefer to look at other products. What's hot? Mailman of course. What about Sympa? Any others worth serious consideration. Any strong opinions? No interest in Listserv and Lyris seems targeted at marketeers. I guess Exchange could be considered a list manager... But why buy with several excellent opon source options. - michael coxe sunnyvale, ca From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Thu Feb 3 17:42:30 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from xel008.hosting.thruport.com (lists.neighborhood.net [64.237.102.165]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3682D32C2BC for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:42:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from xel008.hosting.thruport.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by xel008.hosting.thruport.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j141d6oq029874; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:39:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (milesf@localhost) by xel008.hosting.thruport.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id j141d5Cb029870; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:39:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:39:05 -0500 (EST) From: mfidelman@ntcorp.com X-X-Sender: milesf@xel008.hosting.thruport.com To: Michael Coxe Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw In-Reply-To: <4202CAFE.4010603@opsware.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.70, clamav-milter version 0.70j X-Archive-Number: 200502/2 X-Sequence-Number: 1829 I've become a big fan of sympa. It takes a little work to set up and tune, but it's a serious tool. Lot's of flexibility. I know at least one university (Brandeis) that replaced Lyris with Sympa. Miles Fidelman On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Michael Coxe wrote: > Hi all, > > We've been running Listproc for a number of years now and it's > time to migrate to something maintained & updated. > > Our use is typical for a mid-size company: about 300 lists, many > low-volume alias replacements, maybe 100 with serious volume, a > need for a range of subscription, posting & access controls > depending on need, web access for list-owner management, > archiving, web access to archives - both viewing & searching, > mail2news/news2mail, RSS would be nice. We also dynamically build > subscriber lists from LDAP datao but that's easily scripted. > > Privately I've run a Majordomo 2 server but would prefer to look > at other products. > > What's hot? Mailman of course. What about Sympa? Any others worth > serious consideration. Any strong opinions? > > No interest in Listserv and Lyris seems targeted at marketeers. > I guess Exchange could be considered a list manager... > But why buy with several excellent opon source options. > > - michael coxe > sunnyvale, ca > -- From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Thu Feb 3 18:33:36 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from mail.iopen.co.nz (203-97-50-115.dsl.clear.net.nz [203.97.50.115]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077EF32C1D3 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:33:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.3.19] (unknown [10.128.0.223]) by mail.iopen.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2D239A37B for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:33:35 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <4202DEF8.3040704@groupsense.co.nz> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:33:28 +1300 From: Dan Randow User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw References: <4202CAFE.4010603@opsware.com> In-Reply-To: <4202CAFE.4010603@opsware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200502/3 X-Sequence-Number: 1830 Michael, All, I can not offer a review but you may be interested in this project that I am participating in. Our software is called GroupServer. It is open source and will be available to download and install this quarter. GroupServer is orientated towards collaboration. It has the usual list management features but our main goal has been to make the web interface as good as web forum/collaboration server tools. It is open standards-based. It provides RSS feeds. There is lots of scope for scripted processes. More at http://groupserver.org. cheers Dan -- Dan Randow, GroupSense Ltd :: Online Collaboration :: ph 03-377-5377 027-431-4928 Kenton Chmbrs, 190 Hereford St PO Box 739, Christchurch Aotearoa (New Zealand) http://www.groupsense.co.nz http://www.groupserver.org skype: vonrandow From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Feb 4 05:52:58 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from mercury.bard.edu (mercury.bard.edu [192.246.229.25]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A2232C341 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 05:52:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from femailcop.bard.edu ([10.20.10.28]) by mercury.bard.edu (AIX5.2/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id j14Dqto778320; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:52:55 -0500 Received: from ([10.20.10.252]) by femailcop.bard.edu (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:47:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42038024.6030709@bard.edu> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 09:01:08 -0500 From: Stewart Dean User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: A vote for Majordomo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200502/4 X-Sequence-Number: 1831 What? A Luddite for Majordomo? Yes. System Adminstrators can be divided into the white-hot geniuses and the rest of us that just want to go home at the end of the day and have an uninterrupted weekend. Or, as they say in aviation, there are bold pilots and there are old pilots, there are no old bold pilots. One of the top two or three requirements for a software package to me has to do with quick, clean, little-or-no-impact-to-the-users upgrades. Better yet if they are infrequent. Number 2, I like monolithic packages. One executable to roll into place...or back out if things go bad. I'm not big on messy, super-hero upgrades with 3000+ users who don't pay any attention to your warnings to stay the *&^% away from software X for Y hours...and a college is a 25x8x367 environment. Heartburn, migraines and pressure, oh my! I was interested in Mailman too, until I saw that upgrading would be frequent, include Apache and Python (combinatorial problemation), and was done by untaring and building in place, thus destroying the previous constellation of whirling bits. This is hope as an upgrade success plan. Now, I'm no genius and will freely admit it, but /if/ the MM crowd wants acceptance in the heavy duty commercial arena, the name of the games is /NOT/ just functionality...it has to include maintainability and serviceability...which to me, MM ignore. 'Course I got huffily weeweed all over when I tried to raise that issue on the MM list. And they said I should get binaries from Linux...but the binaries aren't available for my *nix and even if they were, they prolly wouldn't have much in the way of support. People will probably weewee over me here, too. But....... Majordomo is very stable (a release every year, laughably infrequent), perl that it needs is part of my *nix image and very well supported by my *nix's vendor, and there's relatively few pieces...I can build MD elsewhere and bring it in. OK, I've got on my Nomex raincoat. Let fly......... -- ==== Stewart Dean, Unix System Admin, Henderson Computer Resources Center of Bard College, Annandale-on-Hudson, New York 12504 sdean@bard.edu voice: 845-758-7475, fax: 845-758-7035 From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Feb 4 07:24:34 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from nina.cs.keele.ac.uk (nina-2.cs.keele.ac.uk [160.5.89.35]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08B032C35C for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from jonathan by nina.cs.keele.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1Cx5Jf-0007X0-00; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:24:15 +0000 Subject: Re: A vote for Majordomo To: sdean@bard.edu (Stewart Dean) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:24:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <42038024.6030709@bard.edu> from "Stewart Dean" at Feb 04, 2005 09:01:08 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Jonathan Knight X-Archive-Number: 200502/5 X-Sequence-Number: 1832 I just read your mail with my mouth open going "what?!?". Having run both majordomo and mailman I was having trouble believing what you were saying. I run around 4000 mailing list for 13000 users in a University. We used to run majordomo, but the amount of systems admin work that needed doing was just getting ridiculous. Majordomo was showing up a few bugs and I wasn't happy jumping from majordomo 1 to 2 as 2 didn't have an official release. I went for mailman and since then my life has got much simpler and I've had much greater reliability and the users have had much more functionality. > One of the top two or three requirements for a software package to me > has to do with quick, clean, little-or-no-impact-to-the-users upgrades. Yes? I will admit that majordomo 1 didn't need much upgrading. That was because it had been abandoned and bug fixes were passed around in email messages rather than being rolled into a release. I've done one upgrade to mailman in 3 years. The underlying linux is updated using yum every week and I've had no failures. I was aware that upgrading might be risky and so I took some care to minimise teh risk. 1. I built my own version of apache and put it in /usr/local/mailman. I took out everything that wasn't strictly needed for mailman. 2. I built my own python in the same way. 3. I built mailman to use my python and apache So my mailman, apache and python aren't hit by linux updates and I can upgrade when I want to. Upgrading is also quite simple. 1. Stop email and web 2. tar up /usr/local/mailman as a backup 3. Install the updates 4. Check everything and run some test email 5. Turn email and web back on If it all goes pear shaped I can remove /usr/local/mailman and untar my backup to return to the normal state. No fuss and no bother. As a bonus we use "exim" http://www.exim.org/ as our mail system which has a gadget to detect mailman lists automatically. This means adding or removing a list only requires a single command and no fiddling with alias files. As creating and deleting mailing lists is that one command, our operations staff now do that job. Everything else is done via a web page by the mailing list owner so i don't have to do any of that either (majordomo 1 used to require emailed text files which mystified windows users). Mailman has enough functionality to remind everyone what they are supposed to be doing by email which avoids me having to remind them. All in all our mailman system just sits there and works and the only workload I have is to settle disputes on moderation decisions. -- ______ jonathan@cs.keele.ac.uk Jonathan Knight, / Department of Computer Science / _ __ Telephone: +44 1782 583437 University of Keele, Keele, (_/ (_) / / Fax : +44 1782 713082 Staffordshire. ST5 5BG. U.K. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Feb 4 07:46:25 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from yertle.kcilink.com (yertle.kcilink.com [65.205.34.180]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC1A32C356 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.7.149] (host-149.int.kcilink.com [192.168.7.149]) by yertle.kcilink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BCEB831 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:46:23 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <4202CAFE.4010603@opsware.com> References: <4202CAFE.4010603@opsware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Vivek Khera Subject: Re: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:46:23 -0500 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Archive-Number: 200502/6 X-Sequence-Number: 1833 On Feb 3, 2005, at 8:08 PM, Michael Coxe wrote: > Hi all, > > We've been running Listproc for a number of years now and it's > time to migrate to something maintained & updated. > The last few days we've been evaluating mlmmj (see http://mlmmj.mmj.dk/ ) and it looks quite nice. Very simple feature set, but quite complete. Pretty actively maintained. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Feb 4 08:18:04 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E384732C35E for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id B06281800236 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:18:03 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.55) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 4 Feb 2005 16:17:59 -0000 Received: by ws1-3.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 23D0C101D0; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:17:59 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [217.11.245.98] by ws1-3.us4.outblaze.com with http for uhura80@email.com; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 11:17:58 -0500 From: "Uhura Winston" To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 11:17:58 -0500 Subject: Re: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw X-Originating-Ip: 217.11.245.98 X-Originating-Server: ws1-3.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050204161759.23D0C101D0@ws1-3.us4.outblaze.com> X-Archive-Number: 200502/7 X-Sequence-Number: 1834 I've recently been evaluating AML (Adaptive Mailing List (see http://www.co= mmtact.com/AML/ ) and it looks promising. Several very advanced feautures. Uhura > Hi all, > We've been running Listproc for a number of years now and it's > time to migrate to something maintained & updated. --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Feb 4 19:55:16 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from kanga.nu (alice.kanga.nu [198.144.204.211]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB40332C1FA for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 19:55:15 -0800 (PST) Delivery-date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:55:15 -0800 Received: from ocker.kanga.nu ([198.144.204.213] helo=yabbie.home.kanga.nu) by kanga.nu with asmtp (Exim 4.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1CxH2K-00038p-1j; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:55:08 -0800 Delivery-date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:55:08 -0800 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52233 helo=kanga.nu) by yabbie.home.kanga.nu with esmtp (Exim 4.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1CxH2J-0002aa-Tb; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:55:07 -0800 To: Stewart Dean Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: A vote for Majordomo In-Reply-To: Message from Stewart Dean of "Fri, 04 Feb 2005 09:01:08 EST." <42038024.6030709@bard.edu> References: <42038024.6030709@bard.edu> X-face: ?^_yw@fA`CEX&}--=*&XqXbF-oePvxaT4(kyt\nwM9]{]N!>b^K}-Mb9 YH%saz^>nq5usBlD"s{(.h'_w|U^3ldUq7wVZz$`u>MB(-4$f\a6Eu8.e=Pf\ X-image-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/kanga.face.tiff X-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:55:07 -0800 Message-ID: <9955.1107575707@kanga.nu> From: J C Lawrence X-Archive-Number: 200502/8 X-Sequence-Number: 1835 On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 09:01:08 -0500 Stewart Dean wrote: > I was interested in Mailman too, until I saw that upgrading would be > frequent... New Mailman versions are released a little under once a year. Whether to upgrade or not, as always, is your choice. > ... include Apache ... Apache is not required to run Mailman. All that is required is a web server that supports standard CGIs, and that's pretty much everything from Apache to thttpd, boa, roxen aolserver and on down. I run Mailman under boa here, tho you wouldn't be able to tell that from the outside world...(boa isn't exposed to direct client requests). > ...and Python (combinatorial problemation)... Mailman's python version requirements have changed precisely once in the 7 years I've been running it. > ... and was done by untaring and building in place, thus destroying > the previous constellation of whirling bits. False. Builds can be done that way if wished, but there's no requirement to do it that way. > 'Course I got huffily weeweed all over when I tried to raise that > issue on the MM list. If your posts there were as factual and well supported as this post, I'm not surprised. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sat Feb 5 09:32:37 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from listproc.corp.opsware.com (olly.opsware.com [66.54.20.10]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C0A32C323 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:32:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.6.42] (dhcp-6-042.corp.opsware.com [192.168.6.42]) by listproc.corp.opsware.com (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j15HWM3h015530 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:32:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <42050325.3030300@opsware.com> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:32:21 -0800 From: Michael Coxe User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: [Fwd: RE: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200502/9 X-Sequence-Number: 1836 Fwd'ing as it appears that Jill's post didn't arrive @ list-managers. Interesting survey with some excellent comments, but the sample size was too low to gather concensus, IMO. But thankfully someone has gone beyond product proselytizing; this is the first contempory review of list mgmt sw I've found so far - the rest of what you online are years out-of-date. The survey idea is a good one. We have a survey srver at work and a more detailed and company-centric version is now in the works. Thanks for sharing Jill. - michael -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:48:48 -0600 From: Jill B Gemmill To: Michael Coxe , Hi - It so happens that the Internet2 Middleware-enabled Mailing List working group has just completed a survey of university list administrators. It turns out that about 50% of them are looking for mailing list software that is more functional than what they are currently using. At least one of the respondents was a current listproc user. The survey and results can be found here: http://middleware.internet2.edu/mlist/#Docs You will find what people like and don't like about Mailman, Sympa, ListProc, Majordomo, etc. I will attempt to post this reply to list-managers but it will probably bounce - feel free to forward this information to that list if you like. -------------------- Jill Gemmill jgemmill@uab.edu 205-975-2850 --------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com > [mailto:list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Coxe > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:08 PM > To: list-managers@greatcircle.com > Subject: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw > > Hi all, > > We've been running Listproc for a number of years now and > it's time to migrate to something maintained & updated. > > Our use is typical for a mid-size company: about 300 > lists, many low-volume alias replacements, maybe 100 with > serious volume, a need for a range of subscription, > posting & access controls depending on need, web access > for list-owner management, archiving, web access to > archives - both viewing & searching, mail2news/news2mail, > RSS would be nice. We also dynamically build subscriber > lists from LDAP datao but that's easily scripted. > > Privately I've run a Majordomo 2 server but would prefer > to look at other products. > > What's hot? Mailman of course. What about Sympa? Any > others worth serious consideration. Any strong opinions? > > No interest in Listserv and Lyris seems targeted at marketeers. > I guess Exchange could be considered a list manager... > But why buy with several excellent opon source options. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sat Feb 5 10:15:35 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from listproc.corp.opsware.com (olly.opsware.com [66.54.20.10]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2874932C34D for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:15:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.6.42] (dhcp-6-042.corp.opsware.com [192.168.6.42]) by listproc.corp.opsware.com (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j15IFY3h016478 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:15:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <42050D44.6070800@opsware.com> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:15:32 -0800 From: Michael Coxe User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE: any recent reviews/roundups of list management sw] References: <42050325.3030300@opsware.com> In-Reply-To: <42050325.3030300@opsware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200502/10 X-Sequence-Number: 1837 Apologies for the typos - michael Michael Coxe wrote: > But thankfully someone has gone > beyond product proselytizing; this is the first contemporary review of > list mgmt sw I've found so far - the rest of what's online is years > out-of-date. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Feb 25 17:01:49 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D8B432C1D2 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 17:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from xp (pcp09146440pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net[69.142.209.39]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005022601014601600sfv74e>; Sat, 26 Feb 2005 01:01:46 +0000 Message-ID: <034b01c51b9e$c701e4e0$6401a8c0@xp> From: "hilbro" To: Subject: Orphans seeking host Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:02:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Archive-Number: 200502/11 X-Sequence-Number: 1838 Hi, group, I've just joined and been looking for archives to avoid posting something redundant, but I can't find what I'm looking for. I'm speaking on behalf of several Majordomo listowners who have recently been set adrift due to the sudden, tragic death of our 41-year old list and web host, Paul Rice at vlists. net. Paul served us with unfailing competence and reliability for years. With Paul's passing, the world is a poorer place. Paul's family, concerned for his abandoned customers and entirely unfamiliar with his business, gave access to his operation and his servers to an acquaintance, another web host with a larger operation than Paul's. She very kindly offered to assume his customers and provide us uninterrupted service for our various accounts at the same prices and using the same set-ups. The cost part was graciously honored as most of us had prepaid for the upcoming year shortly before Paul passed away. The new organization began transferring accounts, waived set-up fees, and contacted owners for information about the services contracted for, etc. But the pledge to continue our Majordomo list service and our domain-list connections has failed rather miserably. Some of us, after repointing domain nameservers and providing our current and complete configs, etc., have sat for a couple of weeks wirh no list service at all, no access to our webs. We waited patiently because it was worth it to keep our systems unchanged. Imagine our surprise to wake up this morning to our new *Mailman lists, loss of branded list adddresses, non-functional webs, and various other unacceptable situations. We've been informed that they've changed their mind, won't run Majordomo because it's too complicated and support-intensive and our domains can't be properly integrated with lists, etc. Some of the customers, worried about the already long down time for their lists and sites, resigned themselves to the Mailman option and it will probably serve their purposes adequately. Others of us can not make operate our projects properly. Speaking for myself, as an example, I run an academically-oriented, fully moderated veterinary list in conjunction with a same-name web site. I have a longstanding commitment to the doctors and others in our group to maintain control of a number of functions that I have managed for years, issues of privacy and, most important, the ability to edit posts during the moderation process, correct errors and spellings, insert citations and resource links, etc., before posting the messages through still carrying the original author's ID headers. Others among us have some other issues that underlie their need to retain Majordomo lists and lodge them with a service that will also support their web sites. The problem is, we can't seem to find any such host that isn't either restricted to large commercial customers or that runs Majordomo as an afterthought with no host support available. We have been operating quite happily with Majordomo 1.94.5+ (some enhancements) and demime, and web pages requiring Front Page extensions and with a couple of POP mail acacounts for admin addresses.. We have current complete copies of configs for regular and digest lists. We are "easy keepers" with Majordomo understanding. So the question, after that long explanation of our dilemma, is if anyone here can confidently recommend (or be) a host service that would meet our needs. We understand that Majordomo is supposedly becoming a dinosaur, but if Majordomo is a dinosaur, Mailman is a fast-food drive-thru and does not offer the level of service necessary for specific needs of certain customers. If anyone can help, point us to a reliable and reasnable provider, or be one, I would be very relieved to be advised of it and will share the information with our group. Thanks so much. Hilary From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Fri Feb 25 21:58:09 2005 X-Original-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Received: from kanga.nu (alice.kanga.nu [198.144.204.211]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF2532C1D6 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:58:08 -0800 (PST) Delivery-date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:58:08 -0800 Received: from ocker.kanga.nu ([198.144.204.213] helo=yabbie.home.kanga.nu) by kanga.nu with asmtp (Exim 4.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1D4uxn-0004Xv-4d; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:58:03 -0800 Delivery-date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:58:03 -0800 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35948 helo=kanga.nu) by yabbie.home.kanga.nu with esmtp (Exim 4.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1D4uxn-00082H-0i; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:58:03 -0800 To: "hilbro" Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Orphans seeking host In-Reply-To: Message from "hilbro" of "Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:02:00 EST." <034b01c51b9e$c701e4e0$6401a8c0@xp> References: <034b01c51b9e$c701e4e0$6401a8c0@xp> X-face: ?^_yw@fA`CEX&}--=*&XqXbF-oePvxaT4(kyt\nwM9]{]N!>b^K}-Mb9 YH%saz^>nq5usBlD"s{(.h'_w|U^3ldUq7wVZz$`u>MB(-4$f\a6Eu8.e=Pf\ X-image-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/kanga.face.tiff X-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:58:03 -0800 Message-ID: <30892.1109397483@kanga.nu> From: J C Lawrence X-Archive-Number: 200502/12 X-Sequence-Number: 1839 On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:02:00 -0500 hilbro wrote: > Imagine our surprise to wake up this morning to our new *Mailman > lists... > ...I have a longstanding commitment to the doctors and others in our > group to maintain control of a number of functions that I have managed > for years, issues of privacy and, most important, the ability to edit > posts during the moderation process, correct errors and spellings, > insert citations and resource links, etc., before posting the messages > through still carrying the original author's ID headers. All of which is fully possible with Mailman and FWLIW is something I do for my lists. > Others among us have some other issues that underlie their need to > retain Majordomo lists and lodge them with a service that will also > support their web sites. Specifics would help here. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.