From list-managers-owner Tue Jan 3 13:06:25 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id NAA02059 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:04:56 -0800 Received: from CENSSW.GOV.AB.CA (censsw.gov.ab.ca [198.161.6.9]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id NAA02054 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:04:52 -0800 Received: by CENSSW.GOV.AB.CA (Soft*Switch Central V4L380P6) id 813856080095003FCENTAO; 03 Jan 1995 08:56:08 MST Message-Id: Date: 03 Jan 1995 08:56:08 MST From: "David.Williams" Subject: List Manager for MVS SoftSwitch/ To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Comment: TAO.PWIPNW.0047 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Date: Tuesday, 3 January 1995 8:52am MT To: SoftSw.InternetFWD* From: David.Williams@CENTAO Subject: List Manager for MVS SoftSwitch/TAO? Hi, We are an MVS shop with SoftSwitch and TAO. All SoftSwitch and TAO users can communicate with one another via electronic mail. We would like to set up a list server that runs on MVS and allows everyone to communicate with it by mail. We do have some RS/6000 machines running AIX, however it is not desireable at this time to set up a list server on one of these machines. They are not currently part of our electronic mail network. My question: is there list server software available to run under MVS? Your replies will be appreciated. David Williams Senior Systems Analyst Software Services Branch Alberta PWSS SoftSwitch Nickname: WILLID Phone 403/427-7622 Internet: willid@censsw.gov.ab.ca Fax 403/427-3876 From list-managers-owner Wed Jan 4 14:42:05 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id OAA21114 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:29:07 -0800 Received: from uu6.psi.com (uu6.psi.com [38.145.155.3]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id OAA21108 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:28:59 -0800 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA23071 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 95 17:12:41 -0500 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA09725; 4 Jan 95 16:34:21 EST (Wed) Subject: Starting from scratch To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 16:34:20 EST In-Reply-To: <199501040900.BAA13676@miles.greatcircle.com>; from "list-managers-digest-owner@GreatCircle.COM" at Jan 4, 95 1:00 am Organization: SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] From: chuck@synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Message-Id: <9501041634.AA09725@synchro.com> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk After a decade of yoeman service, it is time to retire Synchro, our 286 Xenix system. I figured I would replace it with a 486 box and one of those inexpensive CD-ROM Unixes (BSD, Linux, etc). My question to this group is: are any of the inexpensive CD-ROM-based Unixes better or worse than the others for supporting mailing lists, email, news, and Internet interfacing in general? I haven't picked a specific one yet, but I plan on installing one of the automated mailing list managers. Do you know of any Unix CD-ROM that includes one? Are any of the cheap Unixes better or worse for porting any of the popular automated managers? -- Chuck Cox SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass. From list-managers-owner Thu Jan 5 11:37:39 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id LAA04207 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:31:09 -0800 Received: from hamp.hampshire.edu (newhamp.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.137]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id LAA04202 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:31:06 -0800 Received: by hamp.hampshire.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19437; Thu, 5 Jan 95 14:31:50 EST Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:31:50 -0500 (EST) From: Michelle Murrain Subject: Re: Starting from scratch To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199501050900.BAA27056@miles.greatcircle.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Jan 1995 chuck@synchro.com (Chuck Cox) wrote: > After a decade of yoeman service, it is time to retire Synchro, our 286 > Xenix system. I figured I would replace it with a 486 box and one of > those inexpensive CD-ROM Unixes (BSD, Linux, etc). > > My question to this group is: are any of the inexpensive CD-ROM-based > Unixes better or worse than the others for supporting mailing lists, > email, news, and Internet interfacing in general? > > I haven't picked a specific one yet, but I plan on installing one of the > automated mailing list managers. Do you know of any Unix CD-ROM that > includes one? Are any of the cheap Unixes better or worse for porting > any of the popular automated managers? Well, I don't know about whether any of the inexpensive unixes include list management software, but I can tell you about Linux. We've got linux here on a 486, and we run a few lists, some simple smail lists, and a couple using the software Smartlist. However, Linux is so compatible, that I understand that any list managment software can run on it. I know of folks running majordomo, and listproc on linux.In fact, just about any software written for Unix works on Linux, and it's pretty fast. There is no problem in terms of Linux being able to handle high volume lists. So, I'd check linux out. Besides it's FREE (or if you want to go CD-ROM - pretty damn cheap). Can't beat that. Michelle --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michelle Murrain, Ph.D. email and finger: School of Natural Science mpmNS@hamp.hampshire.edu Hampshire College mmurrain@family.hampshire.edu Amherst, MA 01002 URL: http://www.hampshire.edu/Hampshire/ns/html/Murrain.html From list-managers-owner Thu Jan 5 16:36:58 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id QAA08863 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 16:17:16 -0800 Received: from gagme.wwa.com (root@gagme.wwa.com [198.49.174.33]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id MAA11575 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:38:12 -0800 Received: by gagme.wwa.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0rOtdX-000FCcC; Mon, 2 Jan 95 14:45 CST Message-Id: From: dattier@wwa.com (David W. Tamkin) Subject: place for ListProc 6 help? To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 14:45:51 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 368 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Is there a mailing list or other discussion area for ListProc 6.0? Thanks. I've been corresponding with someone stumped with a question, and, having no experience with ListProc (except as a subscriber to lists running under it), cannot help her myself. David W. Tamkin Box 3284 Skokie, Illinois 60076-6284 dattier@wwa.com MCI Mail: 426-1818 +1 312 714 5610 From list-managers-owner Tue Jan 10 09:39:19 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id JAA23232 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:28:28 -0800 Received: from netcom9.netcom.com (root@netcom9.netcom.com [192.100.81.119]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id JAA23227 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:28:24 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom9.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id JAA26153; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:25:40 -0800 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:25:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199501101725.JAA26153@netcom9.netcom.com> X-Sender: lewrose@netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: lewrose@netcom.com (Lewis Rose) Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I have been having a problem with messages sent via majordomo to a mailing list that I am managing. Specifically, some, but not all, of the subscribers get the message "Mime-Version: 1.0" repeated on line after line of the approved message (it's a moderated list). Not everyone on the list has the problem, though. An example of one today is set forth below. Does anyone know what may be causing this problem and how to fix it? Many thanks. Lew > >Return-Path: owner-net-lawyers@webcom.com >Received: from webcom.com by support.psi.com (4.1/SMI-4.1.2-PSI+) > id AA08650; Tue, 10 Jan 95 11:56:55 EST >Message-Id: <9501101656.AA08650@support.psi.com> >Received: by webcom.com > (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA266953647; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:00:48 -0800 >Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:00:48 -0800 >From: dpvan@interaccess.com (David P. Vandagriff) >Subject: Re: Internet legal seminar >Sender: owner-net-lawyers@webcom.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: net-lawyers@webcom.com >Apparently-To: net-lawyers-outgoing@webcom.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >James Cameron responded: >> >>These are all excellent observations. The downside of a single legal seminar >>is it will not provide the majority of the audience with the skills to jump >>onto the Internet, let alone be productive. I would view a seminar as more of >>an overview of the Internet as a legal resource/tool whose limited goal was >>general education and awareness. > >I think you're right for the slow learners. For lawyers with some computer >aptitude, however, turning them loose with directions on how to find a >couple of big Web indices may be all they need. > >>The point about the difficulty people have connecting to the Internet is >>absolutely correct, as is that concerning shell-based vs the newer GUI-based >>toolsets. The point is not to struggle with connections or tools, but to use >>the Internet as a resource that makes people more productive. > >The smarter ISP's are making it very easy. The one I use provides a >one-disk plug 'n play Windows setup that has you up and running within about >5 minutes of putting the disk in the computer. As I recall, I typed in two >numbers, just copying them off a sheet of paper that came with the disk. As >far as ease of installation and use, it was right up there with America Online. > > >David > > ======================================================== >| David P. Vandagriff | dpvan@interaccess.com | >| 315A Broadway, P.O. Box 187 | ABA/net: !dvandagriff | >| Monett, MO 65708-0187 | voice: 417-235-3858 | > ======================================================== > > > > >------- End of Forwarded Message > > > Lewis Rose 202-857-6012 (voice) Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn 202-857-6395 (fax) 1050 Connecticut Avenue, NW lewrose@netcom.com (email) Washington DC 20036 Advertising and Marketing Law Advertising Law Interest Site http://www.webcom.com/~lewrose/home.html From list-managers-owner Wed Jan 11 01:53:57 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id BAA04609 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 01:42:13 -0800 Received: from mutton.csv.warwick.ac.uk (cudep@mutton.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.148.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id BAA04604 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 01:42:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:39:57 GMT From: Ian Dickinson Message-Id: <8539.199501110939@mutton.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Received: by mutton.csv.warwick.ac.uk id JAA08539; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:39:57 GMT In-Reply-To: list-managers-digest-owner@GreatCircle.COM "List-Managers-Digest V4 #4" (Jan 11, 1:00am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: lewrose@netcom.com (Lewis Rose) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Jan 10, 9:25am, lewrose@netcom.com wrote: } Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 > I have been having a problem with messages sent via majordomo to a mailing > list that I am managing. Specifically, some, but not all, of the > subscribers get the message "Mime-Version: 1.0" repeated on line after line > of the approved message (it's a moderated list). Not everyone on the list > has the problem, though. An example of one today is set forth below. > > Does anyone know what may be causing this problem and how to fix it? It sounds like the bug in some versions of the OpenWindows mailtool. Early MIME (read-only) support in this program had a bug with these symptoms. Get them to get the relevant patch, or upgrade to a later version of SunOS. I can't quote patch numbers, but I believe it's included in the OpenWindows jumbo patch. Cheers, -- Ian 'Vato' Dickinson [ID17] Kibo bait :-) cudep@csv.warwick.ac.uk ...!uknet!warwick!cudep vato@spuddy.uucp MIME mail welcome - don't send me no steenkin' X.400 Click here. From list-managers-owner Wed Jan 11 12:24:03 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id MAA11983 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:23:08 -0800 Received: from uu9.psi.com (uu9.psi.com [38.145.107.9]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id MAA11959 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:23:01 -0800 Received: from uu0981.UUCP by uu9.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA29093 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 95 15:09:23 -0500 To: List-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: List problem From: ted.kraus@syncomm.com (TED KRAUS) Message-Id: <8A1632B.03E800DEBE.uuout@syncomm.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 13:31:00 -0400 Organization: Synergy Online, Parsippany, NJ (201) 331-1797 Reply-To: ted.kraus@syncomm.com (TED KRAUS) References: <8A16243.03E800DE6E.uuout@syncomm.com> X-Mailreader: PCBoard Version 15.21 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.10 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I'm operating 4 lists using a PC with pcbuucp to manage the list. We have had several users 'sign off" but continue to receive message. I've checked the list but they're not on iy. Any ideas what the problem is. I'm also get "bounced" messages from an address not on the list, so how do I take it off? thanks ted From list-managers-owner Tue Jan 17 11:40:48 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id LAA25301 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Jan 1995 11:23:35 -0800 Received: from topcat.bridgew.edu (topcat.bridgew.edu [199.93.64.3]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id LAA25296 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 1995 11:23:32 -0800 Received: by topcat.bridgew.edu (MX V4.1 VAX) id 29; Tue, 17 Jan 1995 14:19:06 EST Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 14:19:05 EST From: Dave Doherty Reply-To: ddoherty@bridgew.edu To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Message-ID: <0098A99D.C01FF860.29@topcat.bridgew.edu> Subject: List Policies and guidelines. Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hello again everyone, Several months ago I posted the message; -> Hello All, -> -> I am trying to develop a policy statement to distribute to faculty members on -> campus who are being given the ability to run a local list. I was wondering -> if anyone knows of an encapsulated version of questions such as; -> -> What do I do with rude/offensive users? -> What responsibilities does a list manager have to the recipients? -> What type of messages should I screen? (Offensive language? Disagreements?) -> What responsibility does a list manager have to keep the topic on track? -> How does a list manager keep the topic on track? -> What should policy be when the list manager leaves? Takes a sabatical? Goes on -> vacation? -> -> I would appreciate opinions or a direction to pursue such research. I thank -> you for your help. -> Sincerely -> David Doherty I received a little bit of help and a great deal of interest with regards to this posting. Many of you informed me that you knew of no such document but requested that I send my final copy to individuals or the list. Since November I have had other work which required more attention and have not had the time to work on this document, now I am back on the case. What I need from the list is any kind of official or unofficial policy with regards to the above posting, opinions or comments included. What I will do with this is attempt to construct a policy statement from all of your input, which I will forward to the list upon completion. Thanks to all of you whom have already sent either policy or ideas my way, I have saved them all. If any list managers can help with information on this topic, I would again, greatly appreciate it. Regards David Doherty ======================================================================= Dave Doherty DDOHERTY@TOPCAT.BRIDGEW.EDU Bridgewater State College DDOHERTY@PIANO.MECN.MASS.EDU Computer Science Major DDOHERTY@BENNY.BRIDGEW.EDU I think talented people should take a vow. "At least, do no harm." ======================================================================= From list-managers-owner Tue Jan 24 08:51:44 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id IAA26961 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:24:40 -0800 Received: from ruby.ora.com ([198.112.208.25]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id IAA26956 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:24:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ruby.ora.com (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id LAA01166 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:22:58 -0500 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Proposed method for automated bounce notification -- worth reading From: jerry@ora.com (IETF-Announce list via Jerry Peek) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" X-Original-To: IETF-Announce:; X-Original-From: Internet-Drafts@CNRI.Reston.VA.US X-Original-Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@CNRI.Reston.VA.US X-Original-Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-notary-mime-delivery-04.txt X-Original-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 17:15:55 -0500 X-Orig-Sender: cclark@CNRI.Reston.VA.US X-Original-Message-ID: <9501231715.aa07278@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:22:57 -0800 Message-ID: <1164.790964577@ruby.ora.com> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk --NextPart A Revised Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Notifications and Acknowledgements Requirements Working Group of the IETF. Title : An Extensible Message Format for Delivery Status Notifications Author(s) : K. Moore, G. Vaudreuil Filename : draft-ietf-notary-mime-delivery-04.txt Pages : 33 Date : 01/20/1995 This memo defines a MIME content-type that may be used by a message transfer agent (MTA) or electronic mail gateway to report the result of an attempt to deliver a message to one or more recipients. This content-type is intended as a machine-processable replacement for the various types of delivery status notifications currently used in Internet electronic mail. Because many messages are sent between the Internet and other messaging systems (such as X.400 or the so-called "LAN-based" systems), the DSN environment. To this end, the protocol described in this memo provides for the carriage of "foreign" addresses and error codes, in addition to those normally used in Internet mail. Additional attributes may also be defined to support "tunneling" of foreign notifications through Internet mail. Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-notary-mime-delivery-04.txt". A URL for the Internet-Draft is: ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-notary-mime-delivery-04.txt Internet-Drafts directories are located at: o Africa Address: ftp.is.co.za (196.4.160.2) o Europe Address: nic.nordu.net (192.36.148.17) o Pacific Rim Address: munnari.oz.au (128.250.1.21) o US East Coast Address: ds.internic.net (198.49.45.10) o US West Coast Address: ftp.isi.edu (128.9.0.32) Internet-Drafts are also available by mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ds.internic.net. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-notary-mime-delivery-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ds.internic.net can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e., documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. For questions, please mail to Internet-Drafts@cnri.reston.va.us. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ds.internic.net" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <19950123171454.I-D@CNRI.Reston.VA.US> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-notary-mime-delivery-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-notary-mime-delivery-04.txt"; site="ds.internic.net"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <19950123171454.I-D@CNRI.Reston.VA.US> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From list-managers-owner Wed Jan 25 15:16:48 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id OAA27121 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Jan 1995 14:36:55 -0800 Received: from bob.telalink.net (rmcmail@bob.telalink.net [199.1.88.62]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id KAA00117 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 10:10:46 -0800 Received: (from rmcmail@localhost) by bob.telalink.net (8.6.9/RMC-1.92) id MAA13634 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:12:23 -0600 From: Bob Collie Message-Id: <199501241812.MAA13634@bob.telalink.net> Subject: Disabling the WHO command for anyone but listmanaer To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:12:22 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 467 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I would like to know how to disable the 'who' command on certain lists and make them only availiable to the list owner. The people on the list, nor the world should be able to get this information. Thanks in advance for your help. Bob Collie -- Bob Collie P.O. Box 1107, Station B Bob@Telalink.Net Nashville, TN 37235 "I do not let my schooling get in the way of my education" -- Mark Twain From list-managers-owner Thu Jan 26 12:22:44 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id LAA03066 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Jan 1995 11:52:41 -0800 Received: from relay1.UU.NET (relay1.UU.NET [192.48.96.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id QAA00787 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 1995 16:13:46 -0800 Received: from postmodern.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyagu10934; Wed, 25 Jan 1995 19:11:51 -0500 Received: by postmodern.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4/GCA-Makitso-941228-mcb1) id AA10197; Wed, 25 Jan 95 16:07:20 PST Message-Id: <9501260007.AA10197@postmodern.com> From: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 16:07:19 -0800 In-Reply-To: <199501241812.MAA13634@bob.telalink.net> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Bob@Telalink.Net Subject: Re: Disabling the WHO command for anyone but listmanaer Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com content-length: 805 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > I would like to know how to disable the 'who' command on certain lists > and make them only availiable to the list owner. The people on the > list, nor the world should be able to get this information. > Thanks in advance for your help. This should be directed to a mailing list or other support forum for whatever mailing list software you are using; list-managers readers use several packages, including Majordomo, LISTSERV, ListProc, SmartList, etc., and the answer will be different for each. There are several Majordomo lists hosted at GreatCircle.COM; for info on subscribing to majordomo-users send a message to majordomo-users-request@greatcircle.com. There are undoubtedly lists elsewhere for the other packages as well. -- Michael C. Berch List-managers list manager mcb@postmodern.com From list-managers-owner Fri Jan 27 14:47:42 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id OAA14594 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:19:27 -0800 Received: from dub-img-3.compuserve.com (dub-img-3.compuserve.com [198.4.9.3]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id OAA14583 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:19:22 -0800 Received: by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.9/5.941228sam) id RAA24381; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 17:17:07 -0500 Date: 27 Jan 95 17:15:07 EST From: Tim Miller <70611.410@compuserve.com> To: list-managers Subject: majordomo on the Internet Message-ID: <950127221506_70611.410_FHG37-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Yo! Tim Miller here. First posting on this list. I'm on a LISTSERV list and a Majordomo list. They've both been a joy and headache-free, even though my only internet access is thru CompuServe, which is not exactly internet-friendly. Now I want to host a Majordomo or LISTSERV list. It would probably start small and slow, but could grow over a period of years to perhaps a couple of hundred subscribers. I don't think the average number of postings per subscriber per period of time would ever be very high. Please help! I'm having major difficulties finding a commercial Internet access provider that makes Majordomo or LISTSERV available. Can anyone suggest some? Don' know nothin' 'bout Greatcircle.com. Perhaps it's what I'm looking for. Additional criteria: I want to publish the email address in the next printing of my book, so that readers who liked my book can talk to each other. (It's an author's unorthodox self-promotion scheme.) Therefore, it is very important that the internet access provider be stable and financially sound, likely to remain in existence indefinitely. A change of email address would spoil my plans bigtime. Ideally, also, the access provider would be at least a little Macintosh-friendly. I'm in Northern California, so some reasonaly inexpensive method of access would be helpful, i.e., 800 number, northern California area code, etc. Thanks a googolplex, Tim Miller From list-managers-owner Fri Jan 27 15:47:57 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id PAA16599 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:16:47 -0800 Received: from belnet.bellevue.k12.wa.us (belnet.bellevue.k12.wa.us [192.147.163.201]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id PAA16594 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:16:42 -0800 Received: by belnet.bellevue.k12.wa.us (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA11543; Fri, 27 Jan 95 15:16:41 -0800 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:16:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Sandi Ackerman Subject: majordomo on the Internet To: list-managers Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk From: Tim Miller <70611.410@compuserve.com> To: list-managers Subject: majordomo on the Internet I'd appreciate receiving a copy of any replies. I'm currently running a list from my personal e-mail and it's too time consuming. (My site is not agreeable to running majordomo or other such software here.) Sandi From list-managers-owner Fri Jan 27 15:50:21 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id PAA16825 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:22:43 -0800 Received: from relay1.UU.NET (relay1.UU.NET [192.48.96.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id PAA16820 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:22:39 -0800 Received: from postmodern.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyaob14805; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 18:20:46 -0500 Received: by postmodern.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4/GCA-Makitso-941228-mcb1) id AA13146; Fri, 27 Jan 95 15:15:59 PST Message-Id: <9501272315.AA13146@postmodern.com> From: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 15:15:58 -0800 In-Reply-To: <950127221506_70611.410_FHG37-1@CompuServe.COM> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Tim Miller <70611.410@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: majordomo on the Internet Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com content-length: 2105 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Now I want to host a Majordomo or LISTSERV list. It would probably start small > and slow, but could grow over a period of years to perhaps a couple of hundred > subscribers. I don't think the average number of postings per subscriber per > period of time would ever be very high. > > Please help! I'm having major difficulties finding a commercial Internet > access provider that makes Majordomo or LISTSERV available. Can anyone suggest > some? Don' know nothin' 'bout Greatcircle.com. Perhaps it's what I'm looking > for. Great Circle Associates (GreatCircle.COM) is an Internet security training and consulting firm, NOT a service provider. GCA makes the Majordomo *software* available, but does not offer list hosting services. Majordomo is at GCA because its author, Brent Chapman, is GCA's principal. I do know that Netcom Online Communications (netcom.com) allows its shell account users to host Majordomo lists, and I thought that The World (world.std.com) did as well. Don't know about others. > Additional criteria: I want to publish the email address in the next printing > of my book, so that readers who liked my book can talk to each other. (It's an > author's unorthodox self-promotion scheme.) Therefore, it is very important > that the internet access provider be stable and financially sound, likely to > remain in existence indefinitely. A change of email address would spoil my > plans bigtime. The best way to do this is to pick your own domain name and register it, and have mail routed to you by whatever service provider you choose. This is obviously a bit more complicated and expensive than just having a single account with a provider, but you will "own" the domain and be able to move it among providers relatively easily (I say "relatively" since it now seems to take almost a month to get the InterNIC to do domain updates and name server changes). You also get the flexibility of having multiple user names or aliases in your domain. -- Michael C. Berch Postmaster and List Manager, Great Circle Associates mcb@greatcircle.com / mcb@postmodern.com From list-managers-owner Sat Jan 28 09:16:19 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id IAA03619 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 08:55:10 -0800 Received: from hamp.hampshire.edu (newhamp.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.137]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id IAA03614 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 08:55:07 -0800 Received: from by hamp.hampshire.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB26520; Sat, 28 Jan 95 11:55:50 EST Date: Sat, 28 Jan 95 11:55:50 EST Message-Id: <9501281655.AB26520@hamp.hampshire.edu> To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: mpmNS@hamp.hampshire.edu (Michelle Murrain) Subject: Re: List-Managers-Digest V4 #10 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Tim Miller <70611.410@compuserve.com> writes: >Now I want to host a Majordomo or LISTSERV list. It would probably start small >and slow, but could grow over a period of years to perhaps a couple of hundred >subscribers. I don't think the average number of postings per subscriber per >period of time would ever be very high. > >Please help! I'm having major difficulties finding a commercial Internet >access provider that makes Majordomo or LISTSERV available. Can anyone suggest >some? Don' know nothin' 'bout Greatcircle.com. Perhaps it's what I'm looking >for. I think Netcom sets up mailing lists for it's customers. I'd also try a small unix shell account provider. They would be the most likely to do that sort of thing for customers. The big providers, (AOL, CI$, etc are impossible about that sort of thing - mostly because they just have too many users). Also, depending upon what kind of list you are talking about, try sending some queries to lists and newsgroups that are related. You might find someone at an academic or .com site willing to give you an account, or host the list for you. (That's how I became manager of one of my lists). Michelle =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Michelle Murrain, Ph.D. email and finger: School of Natural Science mpmNS@hamp.hampshire.edu Hampshire College, mmurrain@family.hampshire.edu Amherst, MA 01002 (413) 582-5688 fax:(413) 582-5448 URL: http://www.hampshire.edu/Hampshire/ns/html/Murrain.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From list-managers-owner Sat Jan 28 10:16:23 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id KAA04202 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 10:00:02 -0800 Received: from ari.net (ari.ari.net [198.69.192.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id JAA04183 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 09:59:55 -0800 Received: by ari.net (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM id AA09233; Sat, 28 Jan 95 12:57:37 -0500 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 12:57:36 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Altner To: Michelle Murrain Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: List-Managers-Digest V4 #10 In-Reply-To: <9501281655.AB26520@hamp.hampshire.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Tim Miller <70611.410@compuserve.com> writes: > > >Now I want to host a Majordomo or LISTSERV list. It would probably start small > >and slow, but could grow over a period of years to perhaps a couple of hundred > >subscribers. I don't think the average number of postings per subscriber per > >period of time would ever be very high. > > > >Please help! I'm having major difficulties finding a commercial Internet > >access provider that makes Majordomo or LISTSERV available. Can anyone suggest > >some? Don' know nothin' 'bout Greatcircle.com. Perhaps it's what I'm looking > >for. > Tim: ARInternet provides this service at very reasonable rates for non-subscribers and even more reasonable for those who have accounts with us. We also offer automatic hypertext archiving of the messages. Write to me if you want more details. Bruce ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Altner, Ph.D. |e-mail: altner@ari.net Director of Technical Services |voice: (301)459-7171 ARInternet Corporation |fax: (301)459-7174 8201 Corporate Drive Landover, MD 20785 |URL: http://www.ari.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **** Curiosity has its own reason for existing. --Albert Einstein **** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From list-managers-owner Sat Jan 28 11:46:17 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id LAA05198 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 11:20:38 -0800 Received: from netcom17.netcom.com (root@netcom17.netcom.com [192.100.81.130]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id LAA05193 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 11:20:30 -0800 Received: from [192.187.167.52] by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id LAA22902; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 11:17:20 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: Level Seven Design X-PGP-KeyID-Fprnt: 4AAF00E5 - 30D81F3484E6A83F 6EC8D7F0CAB3D265 X-PGP-KeyLocation: ftp.netcom.com:/pub/dd/ddt/crypto/ddtPGPkey.txt Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 11:20:09 -0800 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: Dave Del Torto Subject: Poor Man's List-Maintenance (was: Re: majordomo on the Internet) Cc: Tim Miller <70611.410@compuserve.com>, mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Replying to Tim Miller <70611.410@compuserve.com> at 3:15 pm 1/27/95, Michael C. Berch wrote: >> Now I want to host a Majordomo or LISTSERV list. It would probably start >>small and slow, but could grow over a period of years to perhaps a couple >[elided] > >[elided] >I do know that Netcom Online Communications (netcom.com) allows its >shell account users to host Majordomo lists, and I thought that The >World (world.std.com) did as well. Don't know about others. > >> Additional criteria: I want to publish the email address in the next >>printing of my book, so that readers who liked my book can talk to each >>>>[elided] it is very important that the internet access provider be >>stable >>[elided] > >The best way to do this is to pick your own domain name and register >it, and have mail routed to you by whatever service provider you >choose. This is obviously a bit more complicated and expensive than >just having a single account with a provider, but you will "own" the >domain and be able to move it among providers relatively easily (I say >"relatively" since it now seems to take almost a month to get the >InterNIC to do domain updates and name server changes). >[elided] Michael's comments and suggestions are right on the money. Registering your own domain name is a good idea no matter what ISP you choose, and will help you maintain the "stability" you seek for your email address. BTW, even just registering the domain name may also take a few weeks to over a month to clear the InterNIC (assuming the domain name you want isn't already taken), so get started on this immediately, especially if you want to meet a publishing deadline. As far a maintaining a list, you can do that through any ISP that supports Majordomo or LISTSERV, but you are at the mercy of their support staff, and any changes you want to make can become complicated. With the current increase in interest about hte net, this may take a looong time to set up as well. You'll have to learn how to interact with support staff as well as the list-maintenance software on your ISPs host. Let me describe another scenario for reasonably low-cost access and list-maintenance that leaves you in pretty reasonable control of your own shop. First you need live access to the Internet. The simplest (and most cost-effective) way to do this without setting up a UNIX box ($1-4,000) on a leased ISDN, T1 (approx $1200/month) or T3 line is with a SLIP (Serial Line Internet Protocol) account at an ISP with a local access dial-in. You won't be on the net 24/7, but it won't cost you an arm and a leg either. In the case of Netcom or CRL (to use two No. Cal. examples), you'll need to spend a relatively small amount of money to set up a (business) SLIP account (approx $400? setup fee, $150? monthly, your mileage may vary), as the low-cost (~$20/month) "personal" SLIP accounts that offer _fixed_ IP addressing (which is necessary to support your custom domain scheme) are pretty impossible to find. The fixed IP address means that the ISP can configure their nameserver to route all mail (no matter what the userid@yourdomain.xxx) to your POP account where you can pick it up at your convenience. Shop around. Once you establish a business SLIP account you'll no longer have to run your "domain" from a shell account. Shell accounts are not bad per se, but they're not as friendly as could be if you aren't a UNIX guru, and they get rather frustrating to deal with if you handle a substantial amount of traffic, say a few hundred msgs per day maintaining your own distribution list. All of the above decisions are based on how much knowledge, money and time you have. So, let's say you get your custom domain registered and your SLIP access to the ISP's POP server is up and running. Now the problem is how to handle your volume of mail. Running a list is another order of complexity above just handling a lot of mail, but I'll get to that in a moment. If you want to make mail-handling more friendly to use, choose some good mail software. Filtering of incoming mail is *crucial* feature, especially if you subscribe to a lot of lists from several addresses at your domain. You should also look for good mailbox handling, as you'll have to create and maintain a lot of mailboxes while getting yourself organized. Personally, I use Qualcomm's Eudora software on a very fast Macintosh workstation. It's a well-crafted piece of software and IMHO deserves the awards it wins. Its sophisticated filtering capabilities, especially with the multiple addresses I've established at my domain, are *essential* to my operation - it's a sort of "poor man's mail center/list maintainer." In a nutshell, mail coming into each one of the many addresses at my domain gets filtered into different mailboxes, based on what address it's been sent to at the "lsd.com" domain (Level Seven Design). It also gets prioritized and labelled and subjects get tailored based on who/where it came _from_. All of this you can have _today_, with a registered domain name and Eudora 2.1 (the commercial version, which has the filtering capabilities). A dedicated SLIP account to a POP3 server means that you can run at fairly high speeds and have live access to the net as well, should you want to use the Web, etc. For the type of traffic it sounds like you'll be dealing with, I highly recommend getting a high-speed SLIP account with access to a POP server. While I don't know about specific features in future versions of Eudora, if you're interested in running a *modest* distribution list by yourself without getting into serious list-management software NOW, the only missing missing ingredient in the current version of Eudora (2.1.1) is the ability to filter mail on an incoming "To:" address at your domain, queue it up and automatically _send it back out_ from your SLIP connection to either a list address maintained elsewhere, or a distribution list _you_ define. Eudora already supports group aliases ("Nicknames") for outgoing mail, and though you'd have to do some outbound processing manually, rumor is that the automated outbound capability may fall into place "soon." If your distributions are limited to a few hundred names and your outgoing list traffic is fairly simple to maintain (eg. you digest a few dozen msgs once a day and send them back out to a dist list, etc.), Eudora is a good option today, and you'll get a really nice mail app in the bargain. Once it handles automated outgoing mail, it'll be a great list solution for those of us on a limited budget. I wouldn't get into running a high-volume list (thousands of subscribers) this way, though. In that case, either deal with your ISPs list-maintenance service and support, or buy a cheap UNIX box, strap it to a leased T1 line (or an ISDN line if its available where you are) and run Majordomo or LISTSERV, etc. Netcom is at: 1.800.353.6600 CRL is at: 1.415-837-5300 BTW, there's a new ISP in Berkeley called "Community ConneXion" that sounds interesting. They are the only outfit that I know of that offers completely anonymized accounts. They also run an anonymous remailer and are encryption-friendly. I don't know if they offer SLIP access, but you can inquire at . dave PS: I've no financial interest in Eudora, except as a user, but info is available either by sending mail to: or by calling: 1.800.3.EUDORA If you want to learn more by interacting with Eudora users, there's a new list you can subscribe to by sending mail to: To: majordomo@qualcomm.com From: [your address] Subject: [ignored] Msg-Body: subscribe mac-eudora-forum OR subscribe windows-eudora-forum From list-managers-owner Sat Jan 28 17:16:22 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id QAA11559 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 16:58:47 -0800 Received: from jazzie.com (NS1.JAZZIE.COM [192.147.229.18]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id QAA11554 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 16:58:42 -0800 Received: by jazzie.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #63) id m0rYNvX-000OVkC; Sat, 28 Jan 95 16:55 PST Message-Id: From: sds@jazzie.com (Sean Shapira) Subject: Re: Poor Man's List-Maintenance (was: Re: majordomo on the Internet) To: ddt@lsd.com (Dave Del Torto) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 16:55:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com, 70611.410@compuserve.com, mcb@postmodern.com In-Reply-To: from "Dave Del Torto" at Jan 28, 95 11:20:09 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2109 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Michael C. Berch wrote: > >The best way to do this is to pick your own domain name and register > >it, and have mail routed to you by whatever service provider you > >choose. Absolutely solid advice. Your domain name service can come from any provider, not just from the guy providing you with access! (I'm biased here, since I offer inexpensive name service but not inexpensive access. ;-) Regarding email list service, Dave Del Toro wrote: > you are at the mercy of [the provider's] support staff, > and any changes you want to make can become complicated. Any good email list software (like Majordomo) provides list owners with the ability to configure the list without intervention by the system administrator. Dave then describes: > another scenario for reasonably low-cost access and list-maintenance > that leaves you in pretty reasonable control of your own shop. > You'll need [...] _fixed_ IP addressing [so] the ISP > can [...] route all mail [for your domain] to your POP account. A technically competent provider can route all mail for your domain to POP accounts, regardless of whether you have a fixed IP address. > Personally, I use Qualcomm's Eudora software on a very fast Macintosh > workstation. [...] Once it handles automated outgoing mail, it'll > be a great list solution for those of us on a limited budget. Agreed. Until it arrives though, it's vapor. And it won't ever scale smoothly if one of the lists you run takes off in volume. > In [the high volume] case, either deal with > your ISPs list-maintenance service and support, or buy a cheap UNIX box, > strap it to a leased T1 line (or an ISDN line if its available where you > are) and run Majordomo or LISTSERV, etc. Heck, if you really want total control of the machine handling your lists, buy a cheap box (it could even be a Mac ;-) and set it up as a dedicated server co-located on your provider's network. This can be quite inexpensive if you find the right provider.... -- Sean Shapira sds@jazzie.com (206) 443-2028 Jazzie Systems From list-managers-owner Sat Jan 28 17:46:30 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id RAA12316 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 17:32:36 -0800 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (searn.sunet.se [192.36.125.4]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id RAA12311 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 17:32:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199501290132.RAA12311@miles.greatcircle.com> Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8703; Sun, 29 Jan 95 02:27:27 +0100 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin ERIC@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with RFC822 id 8011; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 02:27:26 +0100 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 02:04:11 +0100 From: Eric Thomas Subject: Re: Poor Man's List-Maintenance (was: Re: majordomo on the Internet) To: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 28 Jan 1995 11:20:09 -0800 from list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sat, 28 Jan 1995 11:20:09 -0800 Dave Del Torto said: >As far a maintaining a list, you can do that through any ISP that >supports Majordomo or LISTSERV, but you are at the mercy of their >support staff, and any changes you want to make can become complicated. >[...] Let me describe another scenario for reasonably low-cost access >and list-maintenance that leaves you in pretty reasonable control of >your own shop. [...] In the case of Netcom or CRL (to use two No. Cal. >examples), you'll need to spend a relatively small amount of money to >set up a (business) SLIP account (approx $400? setup fee, $150? monthly, >your mileage may vary), as the low-cost (~$20/month) "personal" SLIP >accounts that offer _fixed_ IP addressing (which is necessary to support >your custom domain scheme) are pretty impossible to find. The fixed IP >address means that the ISP can configure their nameserver to route all >mail (no matter what the userid@yourdomain.xxx) to your POP account >where you can pick it up at your convenience. Ok, so your alternative costs $400 setup + $150/month. This price includes SLIP service for your personal needs. Your list is only operational when you care to call the service provider, and you have to use what list management software may be available for your Mac or Windows machine. You seem to say that for $20/month you can get the same SLIP service except with a random IP address (the figures I've seen on the wire were a bit higher, but then I don't live in the US and admit my ignorance on the subject). For $30-50/month you can get a mailing list on a professionally managed system with the real LISTSERV. This machine will of course be reachable 24h a day and will have much better Internet connectivity (probably T1). Even if they're not otherwise very helpful, you can trust the support staff to keep the machine up because they'd have a lot of phone calls from angry customers and subscribers otherwise. You only need their intervention to create the list, and after that you can manage it yourself remotely. So it's not like you're really all that dependent on the support staff. For a more stable/permanent address, you can register your own domain and have "someone" create a mailbox under your domain that points to the list. I'm not sure if service providers offer that kind of service, though. If you use LISTSERV, your list will be reachable as xxxx@LISTSERV.NET no matter where it is located, so you can publish that address. If the list host turns out to provide lousy service, you just switch to another provider. In fact SUBSCRIBE requests sent to the old provider will continue to work, assuming of course that they deleted the list when you stopped paying, which seems a reasonable assumption. Eric From list-managers-owner Sun Jan 29 03:17:33 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id DAA22030 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 03:00:29 -0800 Received: from jazzie.com (NS1.JAZZIE.COM [192.147.229.18]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id DAA22025 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 03:00:25 -0800 Received: by jazzie.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #63) id m0rYXJz-000OWhC; Sun, 29 Jan 95 02:57 PST Message-Id: From: sds@jazzie.com (Sean Shapira) Subject: Re: Poor Man's List-Maintenance To: ERIC@SEARN.SUNET.SE (Eric Thomas) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 02:57:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <199501290132.RAA12311@miles.greatcircle.com> from "Eric Thomas" at Jan 29, 95 02:04:11 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 432 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Eric Thomas wrote: > For a more stable/permanent address, you can register your own domain and > have "someone" create a mailbox under your domain that points to the > list. I'm not sure if service providers offer that kind of service, > though. Of course they do! (At least, some of them... ;-) -- Sean Shapira sds@jazzie.com (206) 443-2028 Jazzie Systems From list-managers-owner Sun Jan 29 07:17:33 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id HAA24639 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 07:04:52 -0800 Received: from hopf.dnai.com (root@hopf.dnai.com [140.174.162.10]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id HAA24634 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 07:04:49 -0800 Received: from arniec (arniec.dnai.com [140.174.162.233]) by hopf.dnai.com (8.6.9/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA13096 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 07:03:05 -0800 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 07:03:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199501291503.HAA13096@hopf.dnai.com> X-Sender: offshore@dnai.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com From: offshore@hopf.dnai.com (Arnold L. Cornez, J.D.) Subject: Resistration of Domain Name Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi, I am the list owner/manager/moderator/editor/digestifier of OFFSHORE. 465 subscribers in 26 countries. I am interested in registering a domain. Every attempt to correspond by email with xxxxxxx@is.internic.net is responded to by a dumb computer with an auto response that can*t reply to my simple questions of how to do it and where? I would appreciate any assistance is registering a domain name. Specifics such as how and where. Thanks for any assistance. Arnie... <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Arnold L. Cornez, J.D., Cornez & Associates, L.C., 1-800-541-1441 International Financial/Business Consultants, Fax: 1-408-738-4343, E-mail: arniec@dnai.com-Sponsors of OFFSHORE(tm), a FREE E-mail Newsletter. Providing offshore company & trust formations, private annuities, limited liability companies & creation of asset protection strategies. To subscribe: Send message SUB to OFFSHORE@dnai.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From list-managers-owner Sun Jan 29 10:16:18 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id KAA26675 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 10:08:39 -0800 Received: from ari.net (ari.ari.net [198.69.192.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id KAA26668 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 10:08:34 -0800 Received: by ari.net (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for list-managers@GreatCircle.com id AA14073; Sun, 29 Jan 95 13:06:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:06:18 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Altner To: offshore@hopf.dnai.com Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Subject: Re: Resistration of Domain Name In-Reply-To: <199501291503.HAA13096@hopf.dnai.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sun, 29 Jan 1995 offshore@hopf.dnai.com wrote: > Hi, > I am the list owner/manager/moderator/editor/digestifier of OFFSHORE. 465 > subscribers in 26 countries. I am interested in registering a domain. Every > attempt to correspond by email with xxxxxxx@is.internic.net is responded to > by a dumb computer with an auto response that can*t reply to my simple > questions of how to do it and where? > You need to fill out a form (see below) and submit it to the InterNIC. Note that you we to specify at least two cites which will act as domain name resolvers for your domain. Usually, the first is your ISP. Bruce Altner ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Altner, Ph.D. |e-mail: altner@ari.net Director of Technical Services |voice: (301)459-7171 ARInternet Corporation |fax: (301)459-7174 8201 Corporate Drive Landover, MD 20785 |URL: http://www.ari.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **** Curiosity has its own reason for existing. --Albert Einstein **** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ NETINFO:DOMAIN-TEMPLATE.TXT ] [ 04/93 ] To establish a domain, the following information must be sent to the InterNIC Domain Registrar (HOSTMASTER@INTERNIC.NET). Questions may be addressed to the Hostmaster by electronic mail at the above address, or by phone at (703) 742-4777 or (800) 444-4345. NOTE: The key people must have electronic mailboxes and "handles," unique NIC database identifiers. If you have access to "WHOIS", please check to see if you are registered and if so, make sure the information is current. Include only your handle and any changes (if any) that need to be made in your entry. If you do not have access to "WHOIS", please provide all the information indicated and a handle will be assigned. (1) The name of the top-level domain to join (EDU, COM, MIL, GOV, NET, ORG). 1. Top-level domain: (2) The name of the domain (up to 12 characters). This is the name that will be used in tables and lists associating the domain with the domain server addresses. [While, from a technical standpoint, domain names can be quite long we recommend the use of shorter, more user- friendly names.] 2. Complete Domain Name: (3) The name and address of the organization establishing the domain. 3a. Organization name: 3b. Organization address: (4) The date you expect the domain to be fully operational. 4. Date operational: (5) The handle of the administrative head of the organization -- or this person's name, mailing address, phone number, organization, and network mailbox. This is the contact point for administrative and policy questions about the domain. In the case of a research project, this should be the principal investigator. NOTE: Both the Administrative and the Technical/Zone contact of a domain MUST have a network mailbox, even if the mailbox is to be within the proposed domain. Administrative Contact 5a. Handle (if known) : 5b. Name (Last, First) : 5c. Organization: 5d. Mail Address: 5e. Phone Number: 5f. Net Mailbox : (6) The handle of the technical contact for the domain -- or the person's name, mailing address, phone number, organization, and network mailbox. This is the contact point for problems concerning the domain or zone, as well as for updating information about the domain or zone. Technical and Zone Contact 6a. Handle (if known): 6b. Name (Last, First) : 6c. Organization: 6d. Mail Address: 6e. Phone Number: 6f. Net Mailbox : (7) Domains must provide at least two independent servers on Government-sponsored networks that provide the domain service for translating names to addresses for hosts in this domain. * If you are applying for a domain and a network number assignment simultaneously and a host on your proposed network will be used as a server for the domain, you must wait until you receive your network number assigment and have given the server(s) a netaddress before sending in the domain application. Sending in the domain application without complete information in Sections 7 and 8 of this template will result in the delay of the domain registration. Also, establishing the servers in physically separate locations and on different PSNs and/or networks is strongly recommended. NOTE: All new hosts acting as servers will appear in the DNS root servers but will not apppear in the HOSTS.TXT file unless otherwise requested. Primary Server: HOSTNAME, NETADDRESS, HARDWARE, SOFTWARE 7a. Primary Server Hostname: 7b. Primary Server Netaddress: 7c. Primary Server Hardware: 7d. Primary Server Software: (8) The Secondary server information. 8a. Secondary Server Hostname: 8b. Secondary Server Netaddress: 8c. Secondary Server Hardware: 8d. Secondary Server Software: (9) If any currently registered hosts will be renamed into the new domain, please specify old hostname, netaddress, and new hostname. For example: BAR-FOO2.XYZ.COM (26.8.0.193) -> FOO2.BAR.COM BAR-FOO3.XYZ.COM (192.7.3.193) -> FOO3.BAR.COM BAR-FOO4.ARPA (34.6.0.193) -> FOO4.BAR.COM (10) Please describe your organization briefly. For example: Our Corporation is a consulting organization of people working with UNIX and the C language in an electronic networking environment. It sponsors two technical conferences annually and distributes a bimonthly newsletter. For further information contact InterNIC Registration Services: Via electronic mail: HOSTMASTER@INTERNIC.NET Via telephone: (800) 444-4345 or (703) 742-4777 Via postal mail: Network Solutions InterNIC Registration Services 505 Huntmar Park Drive Herndon, VA 22070 RECOMMENDED READING Feinler, E.J.; Jacobsen, O.J.; Stahl, M.K.; Ward, C.A., eds. DDN Protocol Handbook: Menlo Park, CA: SRI International, DDN Network Information Center; 1985 December; NIC 50004 and NIC 50005 and NIC 50006. 2749 p. Garcia-Luna-Aceves, J.J.; Stahl, M.K.; Ward, C.A., eds. Internet Protocol Handbook: The Domain Name System (DNS) Handbook. Menlo Park, CA: SRI International, Network Information Systems Center; 1989 August; 219 p. AD A214 698. Postel, J.B.; Reynolds, J.K. Domain Requirements. Marina del Rey, CA: University of Southern California, Information Sciences Inst.; 1984 October; RFC 920. 14 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC920.TXT). Harrenstien, K.; Stahl, M.K.; Feinler, E.J. DoD Internet Host Table Specification. Menlo Park, CA: SRI International, DDN Network Information Center; 1985 October; RFC 952. 6 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC952.TXT). Obsoletes: RFC 810 Harrenstien, K.; Stahl, M.K.; Feinler, E.J. Hostname Server. Menlo Park, CA: SRI International, DDN Network Information Center; 1985 October; RFC 953. 5 p. (NIC.DDN.MIL RFC:RFC953.TXT). Obsoletes: RFC 811 Partridge, C. Mail Routing and the Domain System. Cambridge, MA: BBN Labs., Inc.; 1986 January; RFC 974. 7 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC974.TXT). Lazear, W.D. MILNET Name Domain Transition. McLean, VA: MITRE Corp.; 1987 November; RFC 1031. 10 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC1031.TXT). Stahl, M.K. Domain Administrators Guide. Menlo Park, CA: SRI International, DDN Network Information Center; 1987 November; RFC 1032. 14 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC1032.TXT). Lottor, M. Domain Administrators Operations Guide. Menlo Park, CA: SRI International, DDN Network Information Center; 1987 November; RFC 1033. 22 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC1033.TXT). Mockapetris, P. Domain Names - Concepts and Facilities. Marina del Rey, CA: University of Southern California, Information Sciences Inst.; 1987 November; RFC 1034. 55 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC1034.TXT). Updated-by: RFC 1101 Obsoletes: RFC 973; RFC 882; RFC 883 Mockapetris, P. Domain names - Implementation and Specification. Marina del Rey, CA: University of Southern California, Information Sciences Inst.; 1987 November; RFC 1035. 55 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC1035.TXT). Updated-by: RFC 1101 Obsoletes: RFC 973; RFC 882; RFC 883 Mockapetris, P. DNS Encoding of Network Names and Other Types. Marina del Rey, CA: University of Southern California, Information Sciences Inst.; 1989 April; RFC 1101. 14 p. (RS.INTERNIC.NET POLICY RFC1101.TXT). Updates: RFC 1034; RFC 1035 From list-managers-owner Sun Jan 29 13:48:12 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id NAA29617 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:35:13 -0800 Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [198.4.7.3]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id QAA21069 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:51:37 -0800 Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.9/5.941228sam) id TAA08480; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 19:49:23 -0500 Date: 27 Jan 95 19:47:48 EST From: Tim Miller <70611.410@compuserve.com> To: list managers list Subject: elementary questions Message-ID: <950128004747_70611.410_FHG66-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Tim Miller here. Thanks for the help so far, folks. I'm closing in on a solution, and have already contacted the sources you have suggested. However, I'm afraid I'm an internet ingenu (an intergenu?). I'm willing to do my homework and have already bought the books, but you could give me a little bit of a head start. mcb writes: <> Could someone give me a general idea of what domain names are, how one registers them, and how mail is routed to domains? Eric Thomas writes: <> Could someone give me the general idea of how one arranges to have internet access in one location and a list in another? Eric continues, <> Could someone give me a general idea of how and where one registers an alias, and approximately what aliases are? Thanks so much for sharing your time and knowledge. Best regards, Tim From list-managers-owner Sun Jan 29 13:50:13 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id NAA29250 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:21:55 -0800 Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (root@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with ESMTP id NAA29245 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:21:52 -0800 Received: from [192.187.167.52] by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id NAA02710; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:18:55 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: Level Seven Design X-PGP-KeyID-Fprnt: 4AAF00E5 - 30D81F3484E6A83F 6EC8D7F0CAB3D265 X-PGP-KeyLocation: ftp.netcom.com:/pub/dd/ddt/crypto/ddtPGPkey.txt Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:21:48 -0800 To: offshore@hopf.dnai.com (Arnold L. Cornez, J.D.) From: Dave Del Torto Subject: Re: Resistration of Domain Name Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 7:03 am 1/29/95, Arnold L. Cornez, J.D. wrote: >Hi, >I am the list owner/manager/moderator/editor/digestifier of OFFSHORE. 465 >subscribers in 26 countries. I am interested in registering a domain. Every >attempt to correspond by email with xxxxxxx@is.internic.net is responded to >by a dumb computer with an auto response that can*t reply to my simple >questions of how to do it and where? > >I would appreciate any assistance is registering a domain name. Specifics >such as how and where. Thanks for any assistance. Arnie, You can snailmail your registration forms directly to the InterNIC. Here's the whois reply: >WHOIS internic.net > >Network Solutions, Inc. (INTERNIC-DOM) > 505 Huntmar Park Drive > Herndon, VA 22070 > > Domain Name: INTERNIC.NET > > Administrative Contact: > Network Solutions, Inc. (HOSTMASTER) HOSTMASTER@INTERNIC.NET > (703) 742-4777 (FAX) (703) 742-4811 > Technical Contact, Zone Contact: > Kosters, Mark A. (MAK21) markk@NETSOL.COM > (703) 742-4795 > > Record last updated on 06-May-94. > > Domain servers in listed order: > > RS.INTERNIC.NET 198.41.0.5 > IS.INTERNIC.NET 192.153.156.15 > NOC.CERF.NET 192.153.156.22 > > >The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information >(Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's). >Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. From list-managers-owner Sun Jan 29 20:25:39 1995 Received: (daemon@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) id TAA04555 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 19:58:38 -0800 Received: from research.att.com (research.att.com [192.20.225.3]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.6.9/Miles-941015-1) with SMTP id TAA04550 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 19:58:34 -0800 Received: by research.att.com; Sun Jan 29 22:53 EST 1995 Received: from bandido.info.att.com by big.info.att.com; id AA10441; Sun, 29 Jan 95 22:53:18 EST Posted-Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 22:53:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by bandido.info.att.com (4.1/4.7) id AA23460; Sun, 29 Jan 95 22:53:17 EST From: tal@big.att.com (Tom Limoncelli) Message-Id: <9501300353.AA23460@bandido.info.att.com> Subject: Re: majordomo on the Internet To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 22:53:16 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <9501272315.AA13146@postmodern.com> from "Michael C. Berch" at Jan 27, 95 03:15:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 989 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Now I want to host a Majordomo or LISTSERV list. It would probably start small > and slow, but could grow over a period of years to perhaps a couple of hundred > subscribers. I don't think the average number of postings per subscriber per > period of time would ever be very high. > > Please help! I'm having major difficulties finding a commercial Internet > access provider that makes Majordomo or LISTSERV available. Can anyone suggest > some? Don' know nothin' 'bout Greatcircle.com. Perhaps it's what I'm looking > for. plts.org is willing to run a limited number of mailings lists for free. Preference given to mailing list of interest to local (New Jersey, USA) people, or lists of interest to gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and supportive straight people. We use Majordomo which has very good remote control. Our internet connection is a UUCP feed to an internet-connected site. --tal -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@big.att.com (work) -- tal@plts.org (play)