From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 00:22:51 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id AAA23233 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sacusr.mp.usbr.gov (sacusr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id AAA23226 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:18:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.1 VAX) id 40; Wed, 01 Nov 1995 00:18:19 PST Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 00:18:16 PST From: "Henry W. Miller" To: list-managers@greatcircle.com CC: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <00998B78.0108E6A4.40@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: People requesting list information Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Has anyone else here gotten a message from Diane Kovacs (diane@kovacs.com) requesting information concerning the lists that your server supports? -HWM From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 09:53:08 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id JAA07452 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:51:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from schoneal.com (wildride.zilker.net [198.252.182.211]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id JAA07445 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from meo@localhost) by schoneal.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA05229; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:52:39 -0600 Message-Id: <199511011752.LAA05229@schoneal.com> Subject: Re: philosophy: linked vs. autonomous list servers To: PMDAtropos@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:52:39 -0600 (CST) Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <951031215901_94712365@emout04.mail.aol.com> from "PMDAtropos@aol.com" at Oct 31, 95 09:59:03 pm From: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Reply-To: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Organization: Schober O'Neal, Inc / Net Ads X-WWW-URL: http://www.netads.com/~meo/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk PMDAtropos@aol.com said... | |If you're running a LISTSERV list, one way to pretty much seal out spammers |is to use the SUBSCRIPTION=By Owner option along with SEND=Private. You'll |need to approve every person who joins the list, but that barrier should be |effective against virtually all mailspammers. We started to switch our majordomo list to this config. It already requires subscription approval, but tying senders to users wouldn't work, because many of the members post from multiple accounts, or at least multiple systems within domains that don't hide system names. This requires maintaining a separate list of posters from members, and in a couple of cases, would require many, many entries for one person (some ISPs give dialup SLIP/PPP customers a system name based on the line they dial in on, as in slip142.isp.com). From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 10:26:24 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id KAA08055 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from vger.tripcom.com (vger.tripcom.com [198.5.220.33]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id KAA08046 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by vger.tripcom.com with id MAA20352 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:07:43 -0600 From: Adam Horwitz Message-Id: <199511011807.MAA20352@vger.tripcom.com> Subject: How do you handle bouncing messages To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:07:42 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I've recently set up a list that now has about 70 people on it. I have been surprised to see so many delivery problems. A couple of the subscribers are in other countries, while others are at major U.S. companies like Microsoft, AT&T, etc.. I've seen intermittant sendmail configuration errors (won't talk to itself, etc.), destination unreachables, host not found, etc. In the majority of instances they are soft errors so the mail eventually gets through, other times they are hard so it's bounced and I'm left to decide what to do. This is a new list so it's important to me that everyone has a good impression and no one remove themself because they find they are losing mail. I'm reluctant to move people to the bounces list as soon as there's a problem and was wondering how other folks typically handle this - do you move people at the first sign of problems? Do you notify the users that there have been problems? Etc. BTW, here's my favorite of all the problems I've seen: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: microsoft.com.: no data known) In case anyone is interested the list is for the discussions of triplets and other multiples. Send mail to majordomo@tripcom.com if you're interested. I'm sure you know the rest... Thanks in advance for all replies! -- Adam Horwitz (708) 778-9531 Tripcom Systems Inc. adam@tripcom.com From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 11:37:16 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id LAA10042 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay5.UU.NET (relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id LAA10034 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from kitsune.swcp.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQznzw19457; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:14:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from lazlo@localhost) by kitsune.swcp.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA00783 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:08:17 -0700 From: Lazlo Nibble Message-Id: <199511011908.MAA00783@kitsune.swcp.com> Subject: Re: philosophy: linked vs. autonomous list servers To: list-managers@greatcircle.com (lm) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 12:08:17 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > We started to switch our majordomo list to this config. It already > requires subscription approval, but tying senders to users wouldn't > work, because many of the members post from multiple accounts, or at > least multiple systems within domains that don't hide system names. If you turn on domain-munging under majordomo, someone who's subscribed at foo@bar.com can post from foo@.bar.com. > (some ISPs give dialup SLIP/PPP customers a system name based on the > line they dial in on, as in slip142.isp.com). Uh, you mean, like, outgoing mail has a different "From" address every time they connect? Sounds kind of broken to me... -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 11:59:04 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id LAA09832 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay5.UU.NET (relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id LAA09817 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from wilma.cs.utk.edu by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQznzw16286; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:04:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALHOST by wilma.cs.utk.edu with SMTP (cf v2.11c-UTK) id NAA27293; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 13:53:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199511011853.NAA27293@wilma.cs.utk.edu> X-URI: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~moore/ From: Keith Moore To: Adam Horwitz cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com, moore@cs.utk.edu Subject: Re: How do you handle bouncing messages In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 01 Nov 1995 12:07:42 CST." <199511011807.MAA20352@vger.tripcom.com> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 13:53:06 -0500 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk How I handle bounced mail: 1. our local mail system can deal with mail to user+folder@cs.utk.edu, and the mail gets delivered to that particular folder. All of my bounced mail goes to a special folder rather than to my personal inbox, so I don't have to deal with it at the same time as my regular mail. 2. "temporary" bounces of the form "mail delivery didn't succeed within X amount of time but we're still trying" get recognized by filters and deleted before I ever see them. 3. other bounces: from time to time I clean out my "bounces" folder as follows: a. if the mail bounced because of "user unknown", "host unknown", or some other reason that looks like the user is really gone, I: delete the user from the list, and send a message to the bounced address saying "you've been deleted because your mail bounced", including a copy of the bounced message. In a surprising number of cases the message gets through and the person asks to be re-added to the list, but this way they find out that there's a problem with their mail system. b. if the mail bounced because of "local configuration error", a forwarding loop, or something that looks like the user might still exist but their mail system is messed up, I send a warning message to that address and the user's postmaster and sometimes also to the DNS administrator for the recipient's domain or the technical contact person for that domain. I have scripts to do both of these, so it's just typing in a one-line command. 4. after processing a bounce for a recipient, I then delete every other bounced message in the folder for that recipient, so I don't have to deal with duplicates. (this is another one-line command...usually "rmm `pick -search !$`" does the job) Keith From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 16:23:06 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id QAA15306 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from village.ios.com (village.ios.com [198.4.75.49]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id QAA15299 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gsp@localhost) by village.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA29038; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:11:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:11:57 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Pfarrer To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM cc: mstrait@CAPACCESS.ORG, Lunardi@EWORLD.COM Subject: Returned Mail: Undeliverable (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Well, it also apears that the address dataquest@eworld.com does not/no longer exists! ****************************************************************************** Daniel Pfarrer SBA: daniel.pfarrer@sbaonline.gov CEO of GSP Services, Inc. CompuServe: 71324.212@compuserve.com Located in Washington, DC, USA Business: dpfarrer@gsp.com For more info, e-mail info@gsp.com FTP: village.ios.com:/pub/users/gsp/ ****************************************************************************** ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:57:06 -0800 From: Mailer-daemon@hp1.online.apple.com To: gsp@village.ios.com Subject: Returned Mail: Undeliverable The mail you sent could not be delivered to: 550 dataquest is not a known user The text you sent follows: >From gsp@village.ios.com Wed Nov 1 15:56:53 1995 Return-Path: gsp@village.ios.com Received: from village.ios.com (root@village.ios.com [198.4.75.49]) by hp1.online.apple.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA20341; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:56:46 -0800 Received: (from gsp@localhost) by village.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA27221; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:53:21 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:53:19 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Pfarrer To: DataQuest@eWorld.com cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, mstrait@CAPACCESS.ORG, Lunardi@eWorld.com Subject: Fresh Spam! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Did anyone else get this slice of spam? It appears to be hitting mainly CapAccess users, but it is well planned to scam just about anyone. This message is being cc'ed to the Administrative contacts at both the CapAccess Freenet and E-world (where the msg. is orig. sent from). I'm tired of these junk messages in my mailbox! ****************************************************************************** Daniel Pfarrer SBA: daniel.pfarrer@sbaonline.gov CEO of GSP Services, Inc. CompuServe: 71324.212@compuserve.com Located in Washington, DC, USA Business: dpfarrer@gsp.com For more info, e-mail info@gsp.com FTP: village.ios.com:/pub/users/gsp/ ****************************************************************************** ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 16:28:07 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id QAA14781 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (mycroft.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.35]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id QAA14774 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:01:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (8.6.10/SMI-4.1/Brent-950602) id QAA10552; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:01:05 -0800 Received: from village.ios.com(198.4.75.49) by mycroft via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma010547; Wed Nov 1 16:00:03 1995 Received: (from gsp@localhost) by village.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA27221; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:53:21 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:53:19 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Pfarrer To: DataQuest@eWorld.com cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, mstrait@CAPACCESS.ORG, Lunardi@eWorld.com Subject: Fresh Spam! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Did anyone else get this slice of spam? It appears to be hitting mainly CapAccess users, but it is well planned to scam just about anyone. This message is being cc'ed to the Administrative contacts at both the CapAccess Freenet and E-world (where the msg. is orig. sent from). I'm tired of these junk messages in my mailbox! ****************************************************************************** Daniel Pfarrer SBA: daniel.pfarrer@sbaonline.gov CEO of GSP Services, Inc. CompuServe: 71324.212@compuserve.com Located in Washington, DC, USA Business: dpfarrer@gsp.com For more info, e-mail info@gsp.com FTP: village.ios.com:/pub/users/gsp/ ****************************************************************************** ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From DataQuest@eworld.com Wed Nov 1 01:26:54 1995 Received: from cap1.CapAccess.org (cap1.CapAccess.org [198.69.201.50]) by village.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA18568 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 01:26:51 -0500 From: DataQuest@eworld.com Received: from hp1.online.apple.com (hp1.online.apple.com [192.215.65.17]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id BAA10810; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 01:30:29 -0500 Received: by hp1.online.apple.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA05112; Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:40:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:40:47 -0800 Message-ID: <951031212602_17602538@hp1.online.apple.com> Subject: Information Technology Newsletter Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: Apparently-To: X-Status: Status: OR Thank you for taking the time to read this note. I am contacting you with regards to an important publication called the DataQuest Journal which helps business people and scholars alike by providing comprehensive information regarding the electronic village in which we all live. As the President of Executive Information Services (EIS), I am contacting you personally as I know the DataQuest Journal provides information that will significantly help you in your professional or academic pursuits. I'm in business to provide high-level information for detail-oriented PROFESSIONALS, people seeking advancement, and assist students in their search for a career in this exceedingly competitive marketplace. This publication is IDEAL for busy IS EXECUTIVES who need make "do or die" information based decisions. Never ENOUGH Time ----------------- There are numerous Computer, Internet, and IS Newsletters on the market, none of which contain more than mere shreds of USEFUL information. As a devoted IS Executive I needed an INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY source of news that would dig deeply into the material to provide the ESSENTIAL information I needed for my business endeavors. BUSY EXECUTIVES DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO READ HUNDREDS OF PUBLICATIONS TO FIND INFORMATION THAT IS A NECESSITY! I created the DataQuest Journal to be a SINGLE, COMPREHENSIVE, EXECUTIVE INFORMATION SOURCE that covers the facts in "Plain Talk." NEWS tailored around the INDIVIDUAL Subscriber ---------------------------------------------- DataQuest is designed to provide information you can use. Therefore, to get articles that "hit home" I am constantly open to subscriber requests for specific article topics. This is a publication FOR THE PEOPLE, therefore it's time there was a newsletter that is truly "interactive" and responds to YOUR NEEDS. DataQuest Journal Specifications -------------------------------- DataQuest is published monthly as an 8 page newsletter. It is in a league of its own without any competition. It contains: * NO Advertisement * UNBIASED Reviews and Commentaries * EXTENSIVE and INDEPENDENT Research and Analysis The Journal provides information which is INVALUABLE to busy executives, students, computer, and detail oriented professionals. This is simply the ONLY authoritative source of industry information for anyone whose livelihood involves computers. DataQuest is divided into six sections: Section 1) Executive Overviews Section 2) Mainframe, Midrange, and Client/Server Product Reviews Section 3) Comprehensive VENDOR Profiles Section 4) Finding a JOB and Advancing your CAREER Section 5) Money MAKING INTERNET Resources Section 6) International vs. U.S. Corporate Operations DataQuest is my effort to give something back to EXECUTIVES and SCHOLARS alike where information is at the core of business. It provides ESSENTIAL facts accompanied by charts and tables which give a graphic representation of the current DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL marketplace. DataQuest is information that NEVER goes out of date. The DataQuest Journal costs: $295/year for 12 issues ($325 outside U.S.) However, CHARTER SUBSCRIBERS will receive the INTRODUCTORY RATE of: $150/year ($175 outside U.S.) --> Shipped FIRST CLASS/AIR MAIL in the U.S. and Around the World If you prefer to receive the ELECTRONIC EDITION instead please inquire within. PLEASE REMEMBER: --------------- 1) Mail payment (Check or Money order ONLY in U.S. Dollars) to: ------------------------------- Executive Information Services P.O. Box 188115 Carlsbad, CA. 92009 ------------------------------- 2) E-mail a message to: DataQuest@eWorld.com Subject: SUBSCRIBE Body of Message: Your name and address IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED: -------------------------- Please delete this message if you don't want to receive any more information. This is not "spam" so don't be the one who throws stones. This journal is designed for Information Professionals who have LOST their job, those who NEED to advance their career, students who are fearful of a LESS THAN ACCEPTING job market, and busy IS EXECUTIVES whose extensive career depends on timely, accurate, and factual information. Both the United States and Global Economic situations are slippery at best, therefore I have dedicated ALL my time and company's resources to produce this journal to HELP people. If you don't want it, don't respond. There is a great need for this information, and as an honest professional this is my extensive effort to give something VERY IMPORTANT back to the business community. Thank you. Respectfully yours, Stewart Miller President Executive Information Services P.S. This in an EXECUTIVE NEWSLETTER in a league of its OWN. Upon request, I will e-mail you a current sample electronic edition of the DataQuest Journal. Best wishes for your continued and future success! ************* E.I.S. ************** ********************************* * Executive Information Services | DataQuest Journal * *-----------------------------------|---------------------------------* * P.O. Box 188115 | The ONLY EXECUTIVE SOURCE of * * Carlsbad, CA. 92009 | Authoritative and Definitive * * | INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES * * U.S.A. | RESEARCH * *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* *===================================| "Combining Scientific Accuracy * * E-Mail: DataQuest@eWorld.com | with Emerging Technologies" * *********************************** ********************************* From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 17:29:11 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id RAA17685 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:09:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uumail2.netcom.com [163.179.3.52]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id RAA17676 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:09:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from znyx.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with SMTP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id RAA28503; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:07:59 -0800 Received: from alan.znyx.com by znyx.com (5.65/1.35) id AA04603; Wed, 1 Nov 95 17:07:48 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 17:07:48 -0800 Message-Id: <9511020107.AA04603@znyx.com> X-Sender: alan@znyx.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: alan@znyx.com (Alan Deikman) Subject: Enough is enough Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk O mighty listmaster: Is anyone besides me getting more than their fill of these "here is a spam I got" type of messages out of this list? Spamming is now a sad fact of life on the Internet, and we all have our own strong opinions about it and what to do about it. These postings of the latest-and-greatest spam are becoming more tiresome than productive. They tend to bury the more worthwhile topics on list-managers. So, could we call a moratorium on this subject? If there is enough interest, perhaps we could spin off a spam-frenzy@GreatCircle.COM list. -------------------------------- Alan Deikman, ZNYX Corporation alan@znyx.com From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 18:25:03 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id SAA20989 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hera.cuci.nl (cuci.ixe.net [205.244.45.192]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id SAA20974 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srb@localhost) by hera.cuci.nl (8.7.1/BuGless_1.02) id DAA26482 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 03:10:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199511020210.DAA26482@hera.cuci.nl> From: srb@cuci.nl (Stephen R. van den Berg) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 03:10:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: Keith Moore's message as of 1995 Nov 1 Wed 13:53. <199511011853.NAA27293@wilma.cs.utk.edu> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: How do you handle bouncing messages Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Warning, carefully disguised plug for SmartList ahead :-). Keith Moore wrote: >How I handle bounced mail: >2. "temporary" bounces of the form "mail delivery didn't succeed within > X amount of time but we're still trying" get recognized by filters > and deleted before I ever see them. SmartList has this filter built-in. >3. other bounces: from time to time I clean out my "bounces" folder > as follows: > a. if the mail bounced because of "user unknown", "host unknown", > or some other reason that looks like the user is really gone, I: > delete the user from the list, and send a message to the bounced > address saying "you've been deleted because your mail bounced", > including a copy of the bounced message. In a surprising number This is exactly what SmartList does automatically for you. > b. if the mail bounced because of "local configuration error", > a forwarding loop, or something that looks like the user might > still exist but their mail system is messed up, I send a warning > message to that address and the user's postmaster and sometimes > also to the DNS administrator for the recipient's domain or the > technical contact person for that domain. Alas, SmartList follows the same procedure here as for 3a. -- Sincerely, srb@cuci.nl Stephen R. van den Berg (AKA BuGless). The eleventh commandment: Thou shalt not re-curse! From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 18:53:13 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id SAA21670 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id SAA21655 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:30:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA29696 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:20:36 -0600 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA20837 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:45:05 -0600 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199511020045.SAA20837@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: How do you handle bouncing messages To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:45:04 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > I have been surprised to see so many delivery problems. Sounds about par. One of my lists fluctuates in volume and when it goes high, I can get 150-200 bounce notices a day (this list only has about 190 subscribers on it). > This is a new list so it's important to me that everyone has a good > impression and no one remove themself because they find they are > losing mail. I'm reluctant to move people to the bounces list as > soon as there's a problem and was wondering how other folks typically > handle this - do you move people at the first sign of problems? I kick their lazy asses off the list... Oh, sorry, I shouldn't watch Fresh Prince of Bellaire before reading mail. Ahem. On my new list, if they bounce, they're off. On my other list, it depends on the kind of bounce, how long the user has been a member, and how much bounced mail I'm getting back overall. If the list is important to the user, they will find their way back on. > Do you notify the users that there have been problems? How do you notify someone whose mail is bouncing? > BTW, here's my favorite of all the problems I've seen: Mine was the one where I was informed some user wasn't a typewriter.... From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 1 20:23:23 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id TAA26165 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilinx.ilinx.com (ilinx.bctel.net [204.174.66.10]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id TAA26158 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by ilinx.ilinx.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.1) id ; Wed, 1 Nov 95 19:55 PST Message-Id: Subject: Re: Enough is enough To: alan@znyx.com (Alan Deikman) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:55:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian J. Murrell" Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <9511020107.AA04603@znyx.com> from "Alan Deikman" at Nov 1, 95 05:07:48 pm X-Phone: '1 604 983 UNIX' Organization: 'InterLinx Support Services, Inc.' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk As enscripted by Alan Deikman: > Is anyone besides me getting more than their fill of these "here is > a spam I got" type of messages out of this list? Spamming is now > a sad fact of life on the Internet, and we all have our own strong > opinions about it and what to do about it. These postings of the > latest-and-greatest spam are becoming more tiresome than productive. Here here!! b. -- Brian J. Murrell brian@ilinx.com InterLinx Support Services, Inc. brian@wimsey.com North Vancouver, B.C. 604 983 UNIX Platform and Brand Independent UNIX Support - R3.2 - R4 - BSD From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 2 08:14:47 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id HAA18662 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 07:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from hera.cuci.nl (cuci.ixe.net [205.244.45.192]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id HAA18653 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 07:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srb@localhost) by hera.cuci.nl (8.7.1/BuGless_1.02) id QAA08242 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 16:45:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199511021545.QAA08242@hera.cuci.nl> From: srb@cuci.nl (Stephen R. van den Berg) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 16:45:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: Alan Deikman's message as of 1995 Nov 1 Wed 17:07. <9511020107.AA04603@znyx.com> To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Enough is enough Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Alan Deikman wrote: >opinions about it and what to do about it. These postings of the >latest-and-greatest spam are becoming more tiresome than productive. >They tend to bury the more worthwhile topics on list-managers. >So, could we call a moratorium on this subject? If there is enough >interest, perhaps we could spin off a spam-frenzy@GreatCircle.COM >list. Hmmm..., well, I don't think anyone would want to be on that list... Except, as it happens, I'm currently collecting E-mail spams (in order to extract characteristics which might be used to automatically detect and divert possible spam messages to, mostly, mailinglists). So, if anyone receives any spams in, say, the next month, I'd appreciate a copy. But only, for the next month. Please watch this mailinglist, because if I'm going to be snowed under in sample spams I'll ask here to stop spamming me :-). The most valuable would be copies that are in a pristine state (i.e. exactly the way they (header and body) looked *before* going through your mailinglist). -- Sincerely, srb@cuci.nl Stephen R. van den Berg (AKA BuGless). On a computer printed rental car receipt: *FOR GREAT BLOW JOBS (619) 279-2900* From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 2 08:24:00 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id IAA19235 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:07:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from maytag.graphics.cornell.edu (MAYTAG.GRAPHICS.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.247.157]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id IAA19228 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by maytag.graphics.cornell.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/07Nov94-0649PM) id AA09874; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:07:23 -0500 Message-Id: <9511021607.AA09874@maytag.graphics.cornell.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6gamma 3/31/95 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Enough is enough In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Nov 95 17:07:48 PST." <9511020107.AA04603@znyx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 11:07:19 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth X-Mts: smtp Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >Is anyone besides me getting more than their fill of these "here is >a spam I got" type of messages out of this list? >[...] > >So, could we call a moratorium on this subject? Personally I appreciate early notification of spams-in-progress that I receive through this list. I have added a trap section to my list script where I can add identifying characteristics of known spams (typically From: or Subject: header regexps) so they will be trapped if they occur. Spam notifications posted on this list *have* saved my lists from some spams already. (Also, the newsfeed-gateway-delay script I posted here recently trapped it's first spam last weekend.) I vote that we continue to post *early-warnings* here. Note: "This one hit my list last week while I was on vacation" is less than interesting. Particularly useful, I think, are Stephanie's early- warning-detector hits from people running the PAML. IMO, this list is low-enough traffic that spam warnings are not burying anything. -Mitch From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 2 08:36:05 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id HAA18841 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 07:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu [128.163.144.19]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id HAA18834 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 07:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from morgan@localhost) by skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA15184 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:51:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:51:56 -0500 From: Wes Morgan Message-Id: <199511021551.KAA15184@skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: linked vs autonomous list servers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >But the philosophy of the LISTSERV system is that ALL list servers >are linked together, they share information on what lists are available. > >Majordomo, on the other hand, and SmartList, do not share this linking >philosophy. > >So there are these two philosophies about mailing lists, as reflected in these >various software implementations. I wouldn't read *too* much into the differing approaches. LISTSERV grew up in the BITNET world; BITNET was a tree-structured network, in which sites could only talk to their nearest neighbors. (Due to the lack of a direct link, BITNET traffic between UKentucky and ULouisville once traversed *8* sites!) Keep in mind, too, that BITNET did not use routers _per se_; each site along the way had to actively process each transaction. In that environment, it made perfect sense for the LISTSERVs to communicate as peers; since every site was acting as a router for someone else, this peered approach was far more effective than routing all those individual requests across the net. Over in the uucp and nascent TCP/IP Internet world, however, the picture was different. It was a simple matter for a TCP/IP site (and even some uucp sites) to connect directly to the destination site and drop the mail; intermediate sites would not be bothered by this. Internet sites did not face the traffic management problem suffered by BITNET; once placed on the network, the routers - instead of the actual intermediate sites - han- dled traffic flow. Given that environment, peering listservers would actually *create* a middleman! I don't perceive these differences as philosophical. I see them as the natural reactions to the network topologies/technologies in use at the time. For tree-structured BITNET, peering servers was a *HUGE* win; for the TCP/IP Internet, peering would actually add steps to the process. Each of these decisions was a no-brainer in terms of network load and burden on participating sites. It will be interesting to see how the LISTSERV model works out on the TCP/IP Internet in the long term. Personally, I foresee the larger lists benefitting from the peering approach; I don't know if smaller lists will see *that* much of a windfall. --Wes From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 2 09:27:20 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id IAA20260 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilinx.ilinx.com (ilinx.bctel.net [204.174.66.10]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id IAA20253 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by ilinx.ilinx.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.1) id ; Thu, 2 Nov 95 08:58 PST Message-Id: Subject: Re: Enough is enough To: mkc@graphics.cornell.edu (Mitch Collinsworth) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:58:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian J. Murrell" Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <9511021607.AA09874@maytag.graphics.cornell.edu> from "Mitch Collinsworth" at Nov 2, 95 11:07:19 am X-Phone: '1 604 983 UNIX' Organization: 'InterLinx Support Services, Inc.' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk As enscripted by Mitch Collinsworth: > Personally I appreciate early notification of spams-in-progress that > I receive through this list. Then why not start an "early-spam" mailing list where listmanagers can send their warnings?? > I vote that we continue to post *early-warnings* here. Note: "This > one hit my list last week while I was on vacation" is less than > interesting. Particularly useful, I think, are Stephanie's early- > warning-detector hits from people running the PAML. I vote we don't clutter up the listmanagers mailing list with this stuff. I'm already starting to get heavy "d-fingered" as soon as I see listmanager mail in my mailbox. b. -- Brian J. Murrell brian@ilinx.com InterLinx Support Services, Inc. brian@wimsey.com North Vancouver, B.C. 604 983 UNIX Platform and Brand Independent UNIX Support - R3.2 - R4 - BSD From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 2 10:56:06 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id KAA22919 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:31:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (searn.sunet.se [192.36.125.4]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id KAA22910 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:31:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199511021831.KAA22910@miles.greatcircle.com> Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7268; Thu, 02 Nov 95 20:09:46 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin ERIC@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with RFC822 id 6193; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 18:45:24 +0200 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 18:43:02 +0200 From: Eric Thomas Subject: Re: linked vs autonomous list servers To: list-managers@greatcircle.com, Wes Morgan In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:51:56 -0500 from list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Peering has been considered obsolete on BITNET since 1988-1990, depending on who you ask, with the exception however that it has the nice side effect of creating multiple online copies of the list archives, which is a good thing for large lists. This way not everyone hits on a single server and there are other copies available if it goes down. It can be accomplished with simple slave lists of course. Eric From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 2 11:24:58 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id KAA23866 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id KAA23859 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA08329 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM); Thu, 2 Nov 1995 12:35:51 -0600 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA01855 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:03:41 -0600 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199511021703.LAA01855@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Enough is enough To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:03:39 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > I vote that we continue to post *early-warnings* here. Note: "This > one hit my list last week while I was on vacation" is less than > interesting. Particularly useful, I think, are Stephanie's early- > warning-detector hits from people running the PAML. On the same tack, I appreciate the warnings because the spams often come in looking like mailing list correspondence (pointers to web sites, notifications of commercial mailing lists and stuff). Knowing beforehand that they're spams would save me the trouble of writing back and asking for more information, etc, etc. From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 2 13:23:17 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id NAA28088 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk (livbird.liv.ac.uk [138.253.31.12]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id NAA28080 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:13:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk by liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk via Local channel id <04132-0@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk>; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 21:12:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Enough is enough To: alan@znyx.com (Alan Deikman) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 21:12:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <9511020107.AA04603@znyx.com> from "Alan Deikman" at Nov 1, 95 05:07:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alan Thew Message-ID: <"liverbird.li:041340:951102211301"@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In the last mail, Alan Deikman wrote: > > > O mighty listmaster: > > Is anyone besides me getting more than their fill of these "here is > a spam I got" type of messages out of this list? Spamming is now > a sad fact of life on the Internet, and we all have our own strong > opinions about it and what to do about it. These postings of the > latest-and-greatest spam are becoming more tiresome than productive. > They tend to bury the more worthwhile topics on list-managers. > > So, could we call a moratorium on this subject? If there is enough > interest, perhaps we could spin off a spam-frenzy@GreatCircle.COM > list. > 2 lists already on spams. I vote for the info though. -- Alan Thew alan.thew@liv.ac.uk ...!uknet!liv!alan.thew Tel: +44 151 794-4497 University of Liverpool, Computing Services Fax: +44 151 794-4442 From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 2 17:24:27 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id RAA06568 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from CU.NIH.GOV (cu.nih.gov [128.231.64.112]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id TAA23226 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:01:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199511020301.TAA23226@miles.greatcircle.com> To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: "Roger Fajman" Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 22:01:08 EST Subject: Re: Enough is enough Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > So, could we call a moratorium on this subject? If there is enough > interest, perhaps we could spin off a spam-frenzy@GreatCircle.COM > list. No need. There's already SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM. To subscribe, send "SIGNON SPAM-L your name" to LISTSERV@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM. From list-managers-owner Fri Nov 3 00:23:25 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id AAA18594 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 00:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (searn.sunet.se [192.36.125.4]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id AAA18587 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 00:10:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199511030810.AAA18587@miles.greatcircle.com> Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3183; Fri, 03 Nov 95 10:09:59 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin ERIC@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with RFC822 id 9008; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:09:59 +0200 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:05:36 +0200 From: Eric Thomas Subject: Re: philosophy: linked vs. autonomous list servers To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com, ckk@uchicago.edu In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:01:19 -0600 from list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:01:19 -0600 ckk@uchicago.edu said: >Majordomo, on the other hand, and SmartList, do not share this linking >philosophy. They implement an autonomous list server host. Many list >managers require privacy in varying degrees, and would actively RESIST >having their list info shared among all list servers in the world. > >So there are these two philosophies about mailing lists, as reflected in >these various software implementations. There are 21,811 LISTSERV lists, of which only 7,518 are globally advertised. The rest are completely private, you have no way to find the name unless someone tells you. On top of that there are servers which are not linked to the worldwide LISTSERV network at all (mostly internal corporate servers where not one list should be advertised). So this isn't a philosophical difference, it's a simple policy decision. Eric From list-managers-owner Fri Nov 3 09:34:45 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id JAA04433 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:10:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (mycroft.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.35]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id JAA04426 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:10:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (8.6.10/SMI-4.1/Brent-950602) id JAA16449; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:10:30 -0800 Received: from ns.fsc.follett.com(192.217.228.33) by mycroft via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma016447; Fri Nov 3 09:10:25 1995 Received: by fscmail.fsc.follett.com id <12684>; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 11:12:40 -0600 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:07:59 -0600 From: "Scharf, Sandy" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Wrapper - Permission Denied Message-Id: <95Nov3.111240cst.12684@fscmail.fsc.follett.com> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I am running Majordomo 1.93 on a Linux 1.21 machine. I think everything is installed right, however I get permission denied when it tries to run the wrapper. I have read and re-read all the FAQ's and info. on this error, but can't seem to fix it. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks, Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------ @..@ Ribit Sandy Scharf (----) Ribit Follett Software Company, McHenry, IL, U.S.A. ( >__< ) sscharf@fsc.follett.com ^^ ~~ ^^ ------------------------------------------------------------------ From list-managers-owner Fri Nov 3 10:57:01 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id KAA06266 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu [128.163.144.19]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id KAA06255 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from morgan@localhost) by skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id NAA02688; Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:25:11 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:25:11 -0500 From: Wes Morgan Message-Id: <199511031825.NAA02688@skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu> To: spam-l@eva.dc.lsoft.com Subject: Re: Response from ixc.net (magazine spam) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk As you may remember, ixc.net was implicated as a source of the infamous magazine spam. I received the attached note today, in response to an inquiry I dispatched last week. As the ixc.net contact suggests, I'll be sending a note to the relevant USPS postmaster; you may wish to do the same, since ixc.net was kind enough to provide the real-world contact address for this scam. --Wes >From: Kathryn Kelly >Subject: Spamming complaint >To: morgan@engr.uky.edu > >Dear Mr. Morgan: > >We regret that you received electronic mail of an inappropriate nature >from our site, ixc.net, about magazine subscriptions. > >This was out of our control as we provide free internet accounts to >those who need them. > >We have turned off our program to allow automatic creation of new accounts. >We now check each user's phone number and are not opening multiple accounts >for the same individual. > >We wish you to do something for us. >We have the address where the individual sending out this >material receives his physical mail. >Please send a letter of complaint to the postmaster at > Postmaster > Staten Island NY 10312 >Regarding the person at this address: > Magazine Club Inquiry Center > Att. Internet Services Department > P. O. Box 120990 > Staten Island NY 10312 0990 From list-managers-owner Mon Nov 6 21:22:54 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id VAA05056 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:13:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sgi.sgi.com (SGI.COM [192.48.153.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id VAA05049 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from lunch.engr.sgi.com by sgi.sgi.com via ESMTP (950405.SGI.8.6.12/910110.SGI) for <@sgi.engr.sgi.com:list-managers@greatcircle.com> id VAA01109; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:13:23 -0800 Received: by lunch.engr.sgi.com (950511.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH526/940406.SGI.AUTO) for list-managers@greatcircle.com id VAA12566; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:13:15 -0800 From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Message-Id: <199511070513.VAA12566@lunch.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Subscription Forgery Alert To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:12:59 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0a8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I got six of these. It appears that Kyle Hsieh-Chen is getting mass-subscribed to a LOT of mailing lists without his knowledge by Roger Carasso or someone pretending to be Roger Carasso. The requests I got appear to be forged in Kyle's name, as only the SYSLOG showed they actually came from rdc@carasso.com. It was the bad formatting of the request that caused Majordomo to trap it and send it to me for further examination (the mailing address wasn't separated from the name by any punctuation or brackets). -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 09:38:32 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id HAA21813 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:51:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from access5.digex.net (access5.digex.net [205.197.245.196]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id HAA21808 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jjflash@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA21341 ; for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:51:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:51:17 -0500 (EST) From: jjflash X-Sender: jjflash@access5.digex.net To: Roland Zuk cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Subject: Sites Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk BTW I have actually found one site that is very reasonably priced: POBOX. They charged me $50 for the first year (including setup and transfer of current subscribers) and then it will cost me $20/year after that, regardless of volume. They also have a pretty unique feature (IMHO) for maintenance of the list. They have a web site (called WebDomo) where the list-owner with the correct password can do all necessary maintenance. Their home page url is: http://www.pobox.com Jack ************************************************* Jack Schnapper - jjflash@digex.net ------------------------------------------------- http://www.access.digex.net/~jjflash/jjflash.html ************************************************* From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 09:38:33 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id XAA09419 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Thinkage.On.CA (thinkage.thinkage.on.ca [192.102.11.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id XAA09411 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (kgdykes@localhost) by thinkage (8.7.1(8.6.4)/Thinkage951022) id CAA21439 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:56:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:56:42 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Dykes Message-Id: <199511070756.CAA21439@Thinkage.On.CA> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Subscription Forgery Alert Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk i'm blessed too :-) >From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) >Subject: Subscription Forgery Alert >Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:12:59 -0800 (PST) >I got six of these. It appears that Kyle Hsieh-Chen > is getting mass-subscribed to a LOT of mailing >lists without his knowledge by Roger Carasso or >someone pretending to be Roger Carasso. The requests I got appear to i noticed the following because of the "To:" line actually... ---begin sloppy message to harley-request@thinkage.on.ca--- >From rdc@carasso.com Mon Nov 6 21:09:48 1995 >Received: from shellx.best.com (rdc@shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) > by thinkage (8.7.1(8.6.4)/Thinkage951022) with SMTP > id VAA00800; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:08:55 -0500 (EST) >Received: (rdc@localhost) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) id VAA17132; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:52:06 GMT >Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:52:06 GMT >Message-Id: <199511062152.VAA17132@shellx.best.com> >From: weichen@chaph.usc.edu (Kyle Hsieh-Chen) >Sender: >Reply-To: >To: lists@shellx.best.com >Subject: Please subscribe me... > > > > >subscribe weichen@chaph.usc.edu Kyle Hsieh-Chen > >Please subscribe me to your list. Thank you much. >... From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 09:38:35 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id XAA07877 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sacmgr.mp.usbr.gov (sacmgr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.4]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id XAA07872 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:17:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.1 VAX) id 22; Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:16:57 PST Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:16:53 PST From: "Henry W. Miller" To: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <00999026.6C673F56.22@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: RE: Subscription Forgery Alert Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"close@lunch.engr.sgi.com" 6-NOV-1995 21:35:15.68 > Subj: Subscription Forgery Alert > I got six of these. It appears that Kyle Hsieh-Chen > is getting mass-subscribed to a LOT of mailing > lists without his knowledge by Roger Carasso or > someone pretending to be Roger Carasso. The requests I got appear to > be forged in Kyle's name, as only the SYSLOG showed they actually came > from rdc@carasso.com. It was the bad formatting of the request that > caused Majordomo to trap it and send it to me for further examination (the > mailing address wasn't separated from the name by any punctuation or > brackets). > -- > Diane Close > close@lunch.engr.sgi.com > I'm at lunch all day. :-) Diane, Thanks for the heads-up. Since it appears that Carasso "owns" carasso.com, have you notified his ISP? -HWM From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 14:22:56 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id OAA25296 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:15:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sgi.sgi.com (SGI.COM [192.48.153.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id OAA25291 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:15:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com by sgi.sgi.com via ESMTP (950405.SGI.8.6.12/910110.SGI) id OAA28282; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:08:37 -0800 Received: from lunch.engr.sgi.com by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com via ESMTP (950511.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH526/911001.SGI) id KAA18586; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:14:12 -0800 Received: by lunch.engr.sgi.com (950511.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH526/940406.SGI.AUTO) id KAA19604; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:13:41 -0800 From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Message-Id: <199511071813.KAA19604@lunch.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Subscription Forgery Alert To: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov (Henry W. Miller) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:13:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <00999026.6C673F56.22@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> from "Henry W. Miller" at Nov 06, 1995 11:16:53 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0a8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Henry W. Miller wrote: > > I got six of these. It appears that Kyle Hsieh-Chen > > is getting mass-subscribed to a LOT of mailing > > lists without his knowledge by Roger Carasso or > > Thanks for the heads-up. Since it appears that Carasso "owns" > carasso.com, have you notified his ISP? I did an nslookup, but couldn't figure out what his ISP was. I figured he "owns" carasso.com, but I sent a postmaster complaint there anyway as it might just give him the idea that he's not making any friends this way. :-) Does anyone know who his ISP is? Is it netcom? -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 14:52:55 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id IAA00408 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:37:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id IAA00387 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA21013 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:37:32 -0800 Received: from jive.rahul.net by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA06274 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:37:32 -0800 From: Steve Portigal Received: by jive.rahul.net (5.67b8/jive-a2i-1.0) id AA28010; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:37:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199511071637.AA28010@jive.rahul.net> Subject: I got one of those forged requests, too To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:37:28 -0800 (PST) Organization: GVO - Interface Design Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Interesting how this wasn't even TO: my request address. jive% whois carasso.com Carasso Design (CARASSO-DOM) 101 Rowland Way Suite 310 Novato, CA 94945 Domain Name: CARASSO.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Carasso, Roger (RC237) info@CARASSO.COM +1 415 388 7333 Record last updated on 27-Jun-95. Record created on 13-Jan-95. Domain servers in listed order: NS.BEST.COM 204.156.128.1 NS2.BEST.COM 204.156.128.10 NS3.BEST.COM 204.156.128.20 > From rdc@carasso.com Mon Nov 6 22:42:14 1995 > Return-Path: > Received: from shellx.best.com by tempest.cis.uoguelph.ca (NX5.67d/NX3.0M) > id AA07036; Mon, 6 Nov 95 22:42:14 -0500 > Received: (rdc@localhost) by shellx.best.com (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/8.6.5) id VAA17132; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:52:06 GMT > Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:52:06 GMT > Message-Id: <199511062152.VAA17132@shellx.best.com> > From: weichen@chaph.usc.edu (Kyle Hsieh-Chen) > Sender: > Reply-To: > To: lists@shellx.best.com > Subject: Please subscribe me... > > > > > subscribe weichen@chaph.usc.edu Kyle Hsieh-Chen > > Please subscribe me to your list. Thank you much. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Kyle Hsieh-Chen "Go America! Number 1" -- Wally George > weichen@chaph.usc.edu > "I Can Banking" -- Ken Sony-Mihara > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Weichens mailbox is full. I contaced the postmaster and his site, and at best.com and at carasso.com. Jeez, my list just hit 3 years and 780 people today. -- | steve portigal G V O | user interface dude | culturally aware interface design From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 15:22:57 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id PAA27035 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from imc.imc.org (center.imc.org [165.227.249.12]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id PAA27028 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [165.227.40.38] (user38.znet.com [165.227.40.38]) by imc.imc.org (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id PAA15526; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:16:03 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: paulh@imc.imc.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:17:19 -0800 To: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) From: paulh@imc.org (Paul Hoffman) Subject: Re: Subscription Forgery Alert Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >Does anyone know who his ISP is? Is it netcom? Domain servers in listed order: NS.BEST.COM 204.156.128.1 NS2.BEST.COM 204.156.128.10 NS3.BEST.COM 204.156.128.20 I imagine it's best.com. :-) --Paul Hoffman From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 15:34:05 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id PAA26791 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from torii.triple-i.com (torii.triple-i.com [192.94.150.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id PAA26786 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:07:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from siesta (siesta+.triple-i.com [192.94.150.7]) by torii.triple-i.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA05110; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:07:16 -0800 Received: from pak by siesta (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17798; Tue, 7 Nov 95 15:07:15 PST From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Message-Id: <9511072307.AA17798@siesta> Subject: Re: Subscription Forgery Alert To: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:07:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199511071813.KAA19604@lunch.engr.sgi.com> from "Diane Barlow Close" at Nov 7, 95 10:13:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Diane Barlow Close writes: > I did an nslookup, but couldn't figure out what his ISP was. I figured he > "owns" carasso.com, but I sent a postmaster complaint there anyway as it > might just give him the idea that he's not making any friends this way. > :-) Does anyone know who his ISP is? Is it netcom? It appears to be Best.com. You can probably contact Schwartz, Mike [President] (MS142) mykes@BEST.COM for complaints. dig carasso.com mx ; <<>> DiG 2.0 <<>> carasso.com mx ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6 ;; flags: qr rd ra ; Ques: 1, Ans: 1, Auth: 3, Addit: 4 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; carasso.com, type = MX, class = IN ;; ANSWERS: carasso.com. 259156 MX 10 blob.best.net. ;; AUTHORITY RECORDS: carasso.com. 246197 NS NS.BEST.com. carasso.com. 164100 NS NS2.BEST.com. carasso.com. 164100 NS NS3.BEST.com. ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS: blob.best.net. 235544 A 204.156.128.88 NS.BEST.com. 259156 A 204.156.128.1 NS2.BEST.com. 244188 A 204.156.128.10 NS3.BEST.com. 244188 A 204.156.128.20 -- Jeff Wasilko, Systems Rep., Information International Inc. +1 617 937 9400 (jeffw@triple-i.com, jeffw@jane.camex.com) "I'll be youah race-cah drivah..." -- Jewel "Pahrk youah race-cah in Havahad Yahd?" -- Anja [smoe] From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 16:03:40 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id PAA27872 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:42:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from miso.wwa.com (miso.wwa.com [198.49.174.33]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id PAA27866 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 15:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by miso.wwa.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tCxeW-000Y6VC; Tue, 7 Nov 95 17:42 CST Message-Id: From: dattier@wwa.com (David W. Tamkin) Subject: Re: Subscription Forgery Alert To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:42:04 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199511071813.KAA19604@lunch.engr.sgi.com> from "Diane Barlow Close" at Nov 7, 95 10:13:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I was suspicious to start because (1) From_ bore no resemblance to From:; (2) the earliest Received: line was on best.com, which might make sense for mail from carasso.com but not for mail from chaph.usc.edu; (3) the request was addressed to an alias for a bunch of lists ("lists@shellx.best.com") rather than to my list; and (4) the text asked to be added to "your list" rather than giving the list's name. Based on the alias and on the whois info Steve Portigal posted, apparently carasso.com's ISP is best.com. From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 17:54:54 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id RAA01581 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:11:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sgi.sgi.com (SGI.COM [192.48.153.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id RAA01565 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:11:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com by sgi.sgi.com via ESMTP (950405.SGI.8.6.12/910110.SGI) for <@sgi.engr.sgi.com:list-managers@GreatCircle.COM> id RAA06445; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:11:55 -0800 Received: from lunch.engr.sgi.com by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com via ESMTP (950511.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH526/911001.SGI) for <@sgi.engr.sgi.com:list-managers@GreatCircle.COM> id QAA13617; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:31:33 -0800 Received: by lunch.engr.sgi.com (950511.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH526/940406.SGI.AUTO) for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM id QAA09141; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:31:29 -0800 From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Message-Id: <199511080031.QAA09141@lunch.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Subscription Forgery Alert To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:31:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Paul Hoffman" at Nov 07, 1995 03:17:19 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0a8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Paul Hoffman wrote: > (I asked:) > >Does anyone know who his ISP is? Is it netcom? > > NS.BEST.COM 204.156.128.1 > [snip] > I imagine it's best.com. :-) Thanks! I sent a note to postmaster@best.com but haven't heard anything back yet. I thought best.com was the ISP from doing nslookup, but Kyle-the-victim :-) wrote to me thanking me for removing him from my lists asap and he cc'd support@netcom and postmaster@netcom. Since Kyle-the-victim is from a .edu site, that threw me off track, wondering if he knew something I didn't. :-) -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 18:04:20 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id RAA01557 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:11:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM (tymix.tymnet.com [131.146.2.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id RAA01550 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04504; Tue, 7 Nov 95 17:11:42 PST Received: from gnsmp-gw by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 7 Nov 95 17:11:42 PST Received: by tardis.tymnet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11377; Tue, 7 Nov 95 17:11:39 PST From: jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) Message-Id: <9511080111.AA11377@tardis.tymnet.com> Subject: Re: Subscription Forgery Alert To: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:11:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov, list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <199511071813.KAA19604@lunch.engr.sgi.com> from "Diane Barlow Close" at Nov 7, 95 10:13:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Diane Barlow Close > > Henry W. Miller wrote: > > > I got six of these. It appears that Kyle Hsieh-Chen > > > is getting mass-subscribed to a LOT of mailing > > > lists without his knowledge by Roger Carasso or > > > > Thanks for the heads-up. Since it appears that Carasso "owns" > > carasso.com, have you notified his ISP? > > I did an nslookup, but couldn't figure out what his ISP was. Use 'whois' to determine the ISP: whois carasso.com Carasso Design (CARASSO-DOM) 101 Rowland Way Suite 310 Novato, CA 94945 Domain Name: CARASSO.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Carasso, Roger (RC237) info@CARASSO.COM +1 415 388 7333 Domain servers in listed order: NS.BEST.COM 204.156.128.1 I recognize that name server. Its the same one I use for inwap.com. finger carasso@shellx.best.com [shellx.best.com] Login name: rdc In real life: Roger David Carasso Office: NET.GOD, 213.931.3363 Home phone: 213.931.3363 No Plan. That explains the mail to lists@shellx.best.com that was reported. I had two idiots try to subscribe to all four of my lists via majordomo@lists.best.com before I made them all be private lists. -- Joe Smith MCI Data Services Div, Systems Tech Support (TYMNET Code Gen) 2560 N 1st St, MS-5046/746, San Jose, CA 95131 (408)922-6220 From list-managers-owner Tue Nov 7 23:52:56 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id XAA12077 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from schoneal.com (wildride.zilker.net [198.252.182.211]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id XAA12060 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:28:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from meo@localhost) by schoneal.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id BAA11586; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:28:50 -0600 Message-Id: <199511080728.BAA11586@schoneal.com> Subject: Carasso.com's ISP (was Subscription Forgery Alert) To: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:28:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: From: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Reply-To: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Organization: Schober O'Neal, Inc / Net Ads X-WWW-URL: http://www.netads.com/~meo/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Diane Barlow Close said... | |I did an nslookup, but couldn't figure out what his ISP was. I figured he |"owns" carasso.com, but I sent a postmaster complaint there anyway as it |might just give him the idea that he's not making any friends this way. |:-) Does anyone know who his ISP is? Is it netcom? Good heavens, no! Roger and netcom - they are not best buddies! Two things to try: whois, and traceroute. So I try both, and they both indicate best.com as carasso.com's ISP. But again, I'd try carasso.com first, in case it's a spoof, and wasn't him (though nothing Roger does would surprise me). wildride:meo[114]>whois carasso.com [rs.internic.net] Carasso Design (CARASSO-DOM) 101 Rowland Way Suite 310 Novato, CA 94945 Domain Name: CARASSO.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Carasso, Roger (RC237) info@CARASSO.COM +1 415 388 7333 Record last updated on 27-Jun-95. Record created on 13-Jan-95. Domain servers in listed order: NS.BEST.COM 204.156.128.1 NS2.BEST.COM 204.156.128.10 NS3.BEST.COM 204.156.128.20 The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's). Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. ------------------------------------ wildride:meo[115]>traceroute carasso.com traceroute carasso.com traceroute: unknown host carasso.com wildride:meo[116]>traceroute www.carasso.com traceroute to www.carasso.com (204.156.144.6), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 fnord.schoneal.com (198.252.182.212) 2.844 ms 1.796 ms 1.704 ms 2 buffalo.zilker.net (198.252.182.138) 29.246 ms 26.863 ms 26.213 ms 3 gw.zilker.net (198.252.182.130) 51.837 ms 31.781 ms 29.301 ms 4 fr.austin.tx.psi.net (38.2.245.1) 40.027 ms 40.459 ms 40.659 ms 5 leaf.net121.psi.net (38.1.10.15) 74.222 ms 93.791 ms 97.646 ms 6 38.1.2.19 (38.1.2.19) 96.443 ms 135.496 ms 104.408 ms 7 Net99-Mae-East01.net99.net (192.41.177.170) 118.407 ms 116.378 ms 98.169 ms 8 mae-w-pb-E0-0.SanJose.net99.net (204.157.38.2) 184.635 ms 180.097 ms 168.994 ms 9 mae-west.best.net (198.32.136.36) 177.955 ms 270.426 ms 218.969 ms 10 204.156.144.1 (204.156.144.1) 205.784 ms 218.392 ms 174.424 ms ^^^^^^^^^^^ ... wildride:meo[116]>whois 204.156.144 [rs.internic.net] Best Internet Communications, Inc. (NET-BEST2-156-144) 421 Castro Street Mountain View, CA 94040 US Netname: BEST2-156-144 Netnumber: 204.156.144.0 Coordinator: White, Richard P. (RPW) rpwhite@BEST.COM +1 415 964 2378 Record last updated on 03-Apr-95. The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's). Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. ------------------------------------------------ -Miles meo@schoneal.com From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 8 08:12:10 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id HAA25525 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:50:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from tango.rahul.net (tango.rahul.net [192.160.13.5]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id HAA25520 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:50:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from bolero.rahul.net by tango.rahul.net with SMTP id AA29480 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:50:36 -0800 Received: from jive.rahul.net by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA25584 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:50:35 -0800 From: Steve Portigal Received: by jive.rahul.net (5.67b8/jive-a2i-1.0) id AA29871; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:50:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199511081550.AA29871@jive.rahul.net> Subject: thought this was fairly ironic. Small net, huh? To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:50:32 -0800 (PST) Organization: GVO - Interface Design Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Steve Portigal spake: From stevep Wed Nov 8 06:45:29 1995 From: Steve Portigal Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:45:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199511080645.AA25954@jive.rahul.net> To: stevep@rahul.net Subject: (fwd) WEB DESIGNERS Newsgroups: alt.design.graphics Organization: GVO INC. Path: rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!svc.portal.com!news1.best.com!shellx.best.com!shellx.best.com!not-for-mail From: rdc@shellx.best.com (Roger David Carasso) Newsgroups: alt.design.graphics Subject: WEB DESIGNERS Date: 7 Nov 1995 17:49:32 -0800 Organization: Carasso Design -- (415) 388-7333 Lines: 22 Message-ID: <47p2bc$p8p@shellx.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shellx.best.com Already have a company web page? Or do you have one and it's boring? We can help. http://www.carasso.com CARASSO DESIGN The Artistic Professionals. "We've quickly and quietly produced some of the best sites -- clean, artistic, and professional -- on the entire internet for a reasonable price." -- -- CARASSO DESIGN Web Graphic Design / Builders info@carasso.com http://www.carasso.com -- | steve portigal G V O | user interface dude | culturally aware interface design -- | steve portigal G V O | user interface dude | culturally aware interface design From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 8 10:28:38 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id KAA28528 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from lokkur.dexter.mi.us (dexter-gw.dexter.msen.com [148.59.2.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id KAA28523 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:02:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (scs@localhost) by lokkur.dexter.mi.us (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA23212; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:00:52 -0500 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Path: lokkur.dexter.mi.us!not-for-mail From: scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) Newsgroups: local.list-managers Subject: Re: Subscription Forgery Alert Date: 8 Nov 1995 13:00:52 -0500 Organization: Inland Sea Lines: 9 Distribution: local Message-ID: <47qr8k$ml9@lokkur.dexter.mi.us> References: <00999026.6C673F56.22@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Before everyone decides Roger Carasso is the guilty party, allow me to point out that he is less than popular in a number of circles. It is well within the realm of possibility that some enterprising soul has decided to hit both him and Kyle Hsieh-Chen by forging the Hsieh-Chen giving the appearance of Carasso. -- ` . . . I'm a sysadmin, with an admitted preference for things I can reboot over things I have to negotiate with . . . ' Mike Shaver (shaver@neon.ingenia.com) From list-managers-owner Wed Nov 8 21:52:56 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id VAA15577 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from sgi.sgi.com (SGI.COM [192.48.153.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id VAA15547 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from lunch.engr.sgi.com by sgi.sgi.com via ESMTP (950405.SGI.8.6.12/910110.SGI) for <@sgi.engr.sgi.com:list-managers@GreatCircle.COM> id VAA25386; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:18:22 -0800 Received: by lunch.engr.sgi.com (950511.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH526/940406.SGI.AUTO) for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM id VAA13246; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:18:20 -0800 From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Message-Id: <199511090518.VAA13246@lunch.engr.sgi.com> Subject: Re: Where to complain (was Carasso.com's ISP) To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:18:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199511080728.BAA11586@schoneal.com> from "Miles O'Neal" at Nov 08, 1995 01:28:50 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0a8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Miles wrote: > wildride:meo[116]>whois 204.156.144 > [rs.internic.net] > Best Internet Communications, Inc. (NET-BEST2-156-144) > 421 Castro Street > Mountain View, CA 94040 Wow, that's local to me! Thanks for the info. I figured since I'm local I'd phone them directly about this. I talked to their head guru, who wasn't aware of the situation as they ignore postmaster e-mail ("cause it fills up with bounces"). He said if anyone wants to complain, send it to: abuse@best.com They've set up that address to deal with abuse complaints. He wasn't very competent at tracing down carasso.com (he claimed he kept getting "no such address"), but I pressed him on it and gave him a bunch of info and he said he'd look into it and get back to me. We'll see... Perhaps that's just what he's like without coffee! :-) -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 9 02:53:14 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id CAA28358 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:33:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id CAA28298 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA29767 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:35:59 -0600 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA29375 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:21:11 -0600 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199511090921.DAA29375@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Mailing list spam early warning To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 03:21:10 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk This warning may not be an early one given the length of the To: list. I received 4 copies of it, so I don't know what he's doing. Since he's mailing actual the listservers he's going to be getting a slew of error messages back. :-) Forwarded message: > From romed@regensburger.co.at Wed Nov 8 22:32:21 1995 > Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 23:21:55 PST > From: Romed Regensburger > To: .bitlistserv%jhuvmnet@s14.ibk1.Austria.EU.net, > act-up-request@world.std.com, JHBercovitz@lbl.gov, majordomo@ainet.com, > Majordomo@seatimes.com, 90210-request@ferkel.ucsb.edu, > adoption-request@listserv.law.cornell.edu, AEthics-L-owner@scu.edu.au, > AFinAcc-L-owner@scu.edu.au, af-request@crl.dec.com, james@wsyd.com, > listserv@mizzou1.missouri.edu, majordomo@io.com, mlacabe@best.com, > wtm@bunker.shel.isc-br.com, > 30something-request@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu, > AAccSys-L-owner@scu.edu.au, AAudit-L-owner@Relay1.Austria.EU.net, > abc-list-request@cwi.nl, ABooks-L-owner@scu.edu.au, > accordion-request@cs.cmu.edu, action@ACTIONPROPERTIES.COM, > ada-belgium-info-request@cs.kuleuven.ac.be, > ada-belgium-request@cs.kuleuven.ac.be, add-parents-request@mv.mv.com, > adlaw-request@webcom.com, adoptees-request@ucsd.edu, > AEthnog-L-owner@scu.edu.au, agarg@ces.cwru.edu, > agenda-users-request@newcastle.ac.uk, AGvNFP-L-owner@scu.edu.au, > aids-request@cs.ucla.edu, AIntAcc-L-owner@scu.edu.au, > albany-democrats-request@webcom.com, alife-request@cognet.ucla.edu, > Allergy-request@tamvm1.tamu.edu, allman-request@world.std.com, > alpha-osf-managers-request@ornl.gov, Altinst-request@cco.caltech.edu, > alwatson@sedona.net, amazons-request@math.uio.no, > amos-request@access.digex.net, awlist@primenet.com, > bgordon@pcsmtp.lcec.lockheed.com, cdrom-list-request@ben.com, > cvisser@math.UCR.EDU, dirk@offis.be, frabbani@epas.utoronto.ca, > J.Hale@latrobe.edu.au, jp@unl.edu, kinnaman@eden.com, > listproc@eartha.mills.edu, listproc@solar.rtd.utk.edu, > listproc@vast.unsw.edu.au, listproc2@bgu.edu, listserv@amsat.org, > listserv@eff.org, listserv@gu.uwa.edu.au, listserv@latrobe.edu.au, > listserv@listserv.law.cornell.edu, listserv@mizzou1.missouri.edu, > LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU, listserv@rutvm1.rutgers.edu, > listserv@scan.si.edu, LISTSERV@scan.si.edu, LISTSERV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU, > LISTSERV@tamvm1.tamu.edu, listserv@ucsd.edu, listserv@unl.edu, > LISTSERV@utoronto.bitnet, listserv@wsyd.com, listserv@wunet.wustl.edu, > madole@mills.edu, Majordomo@adfa.oz.au, majordomo@io.com, > majordomo@blob.best.net, majordomo@ornl.gov, majordomo@seatimes.com, > majordomo@virginia.edu, majordomo@webcom.com, mbm2y@virginia.edu, > odat@ccnet.com, otto@jyu.fi, postmaster@atheist.org, > rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au, stevea@vast.unsw.edu.au, vdpoll@fwi.uva.nl, > wsmith@wordsmith.org, year2020@seatimes.com, ZER0-request@neosoft.com > X-Mailer: Chameleon ENGP1, TCP/IP f|r Windows, NetManage Inc. > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > ------------------------------------- > Name: Romed Regensburger > E-mail: Romed Regensburger > Date: 11/08/95 > Time: 23:21:55 [ad for hair products deleted] > WDM > z.H. Romed Regensburger > Gstirnerweg 19 > 6424 Silz / Tirol > Fax: +43(0)5263 / 5477 - 4 > E-mail: regens@regensburger.co.at From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 9 11:48:17 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id LAA19319 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from wilma.cs.utk.edu (WILMA.CS.UTK.EDU [128.169.94.141]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id LAA19314 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:18:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALHOST by wilma.cs.utk.edu with SMTP (cf v2.11c-UTK) id OAA24484; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:18:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199511091918.OAA24484@wilma.cs.utk.edu> X-URI: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~moore/ To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: bulk_mailer 1.3 release cc: moore@cs.utk.edu From: Keith Moore Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 14:18:36 -0500 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I've just put the latest version of bulk_mailer out for anonymous ftp to ftp://cs.utk.edu/pub/moore/bulk_mailer/bulk_mailer-1.3.tar This release contains several bug fixes, plus the ability to do some on-the-fly header munging. It can be used as a more efficient alternative to majordomo's resend, though it has different command-line arguments and doesn't have all of the functionality of the majordomo tool. The readme file follows. Keith --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a C program to do "bulk" mailing. For input, it takes a file of recipient addresses (one address per line) and a message (with headers already attached) to be sent to the recipients. It sorts the recipient list by reversed domain (so similar ones sort together), splits up the recipients into several groups containing no more than N domains each, creates an SMTP envelope for each group of recipients, and feeds that envelope to "/usr/lib/sendmail -bs". Splitting the envelopes up allows sendmail to perform delivery in parallel, so instead of having one large queue entry (for which sendmail might take awhile to get around to attempting delivery for some recipients), it has several smaller queue entries. Depending on your point-of-view, this can still be considered "cluttering up your mail queue", but it does seem to deliver messages more quickly to most recipients. The core of this program was extracted from a somewhat strange mailing list manager called na-net; it was designed to efficiently send out mail to 5000 people at a time. I have used this program to attempt delivery of a message to over 12000 recipients around the world, within a few hours. I'm currently using bulk_mailer as a back-end for several mailing lists of modest size. However, the program is not extensively tested, and may not work well in all environments. (In particular, if your system has per-user process quotas, or a small number of process table entries, you will want to modify this program to recover gracefully.) There's no warranty on this, but you're welcome to use it if you want. Installation: a) edit the Makefile as necessary b) type "make" c) copy bulk_mailer to whereever you want it to live. Usage: bulk_mailer [options] envelope_from recipient_list_file The message is then fed to standard input. 'envelope_from' is the envelope return address for the mailing list. This should either be the address of a human list maintainer, or the address of a robot that tries to recognize bounced mail messages and grok it, forwarding anything it doesn't understand to a human. 'recipient_list_file' is a filename of a list of recipients, one recipient per line. bulk_mailer's address prefrobnicator tries to understand several forms of address, e.g.: Keith Moore moore@cs.utk.edu (Keith Moore) "Keith Moore" <"keith.moore"@cs.utk.edu> (Moore, Keith) should all do the right thing. Options: -debug don't actually mail the stuff. instead, spit SMTP to stdout -domain dom.ain Set the local domain name. if not set, bulk_mailer will try to figure out the name on its own. Note: This should be a fully-qualified domain name -- not just the first component (aka the "hostname"). If the domain name doesn't have a '.' it's rejected. -maxdomains ### set the maximum number of domains per envelope to ###. if not explicitly set, 20 is the default. -maxsize ##### reject any message larger than ##### bytes. -precedence xxx add a 'Precedence: xxx' header. 'xxx' should be a keyword recognized by sendmail. NOT RECOMMENDED. WARNING: some mailers will bounce the mail if they see a Precedence header with a keyword they don't understand; some list managers will silently drop the mail if they see a Precedence header with a keyword they do understand. There is NO safe value for the Precedence header that won't cause some mailer to mishandle the message. This option is therefore not recommended. -reply-to xxx add a 'Reply-to: xxx' header to the resent message if there wasn't one in the input. Use of the reply-to header by lists is questionable; see http://www.unicom.com/FAQ/reply-to-evil.html for some of the reasons why. +reply-to yyy add a 'Reply-to: xxx' header to the resent message, overriding any reply-to header in the input. THIS OPTION IS NOT RECOMMENDED. If having a list use reply-to is questionable, overriding the sender's reply-to header is even worse. This option should be used only in very unusual cases. -sendmail zzz Add the following flags to the sendmail command-line. For instance, "-sendmail -Odq" would have bulk_mailer pass the "-Odq" flag to sendmail, which tells it: "just queue the message, don't attempt to deliver it immediately". -v Be verbose. Use with sendmail: To have bulk_mailer distributed mail to a list, add the following lines to /etc/aliases: {FOO}-request: whoever-maintains-foo owner-{FOO}: whoever-maintains-foo {FOO}: "|{BULK_MAILER} owner-{FOO}@{YOUR.DOMAIN} {ADDRESS_LIST}" where {FOO} is the name of the list, {YOUR.DOMAIN} is your fully-qualified domain, {BULK_MAILER} is a full path name of the bulk_mailer program, and {ADDRESS_LIST} is a full path name of the file containing the list of addresses. From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 9 15:23:15 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id PAA26436 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mv.mv.com (mv.MV.COM [192.80.84.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id PAA26425 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:15:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (mem@localhost) by mv.mv.com (8.6.10/mv(b)/mem-940616) id SAA17146; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:15:18 -0500 From: "Mark E. Mallett" Message-Id: <199511092315.SAA17146@mv.mv.com> Subject: Re: Where to complain (was Carasso.com's ISP) To: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:15:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <199511090518.VAA13246@lunch.engr.sgi.com> from "Diane Barlow Close" at Nov 8, 95 09:18:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Wow, that's local to me! Thanks for the info. I figured since I'm local > I'd phone them directly about this. I talked to their head guru, who > wasn't aware of the situation as they ignore postmaster e-mail ("cause it > fills up with bounces"). Oh my. The only times I've ever heard anyone say this is when they had some reason to avoid postmaster mail. Not that this person does; just that ignoring postmaster mail isn't cool. -mm- From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 9 16:09:10 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id PAA27823 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from torii.triple-i.com (torii.triple-i.com [192.94.150.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id PAA27818 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:42:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from siesta (siesta+.triple-i.com [192.94.150.7]) by torii.triple-i.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01630 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:42:22 -0800 Received: from pak by siesta (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07985; Thu, 9 Nov 95 15:42:21 PST From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Message-Id: <9511092342.AA07985@siesta> Subject: regensb@regensburger.co.at attempted spam To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:42:20 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I just got a major attempted spam from regensb@regensburger.co.at. He's using majordomo and listname-owner address, so it shouldn't affect subscribers much. I sent mail to postmaster, but given that it looks like he's posting from his own domain I don't think we'll hear much in return. Jeff -- Jeff Wasilko, Systems Rep., Information International Inc. +1 617 937 9400 (jeffw@triple-i.com, jeffw@jane.camex.com) "I'll be youah race-cah drivah..." -- Jewel "Pahrk youah race-cah in Havahad Yahd?" -- Anja [smoe] From list-managers-owner Thu Nov 9 22:23:14 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id WAA14730 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:03:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id WAA14725 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:03:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA11818 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for list-managers@greatcircle.com); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:34:21 -0600 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA20485 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:02:21 -0600 From: ranger@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199511100102.TAA20485@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: The ML Spam Continues To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:02:20 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Mr. Regensburger is still at it, and up to the E's. Only got two copies of this one. He's still mailing all the contact addresses, including listservers. Guess he's not savvy enough to figure out he's really not reaching very many people. I got hit twice with this latest bunch, making 6 copies total. If he's using the most recent version of the PAML, I'll get hit again when he gets up to the S's (if someone hasn't stopped him by then). Send me email if you want to see the latest copies - I won't burden list-managers further with this unless something new develops. From list-managers-owner Fri Nov 10 22:19:02 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id VAA03401 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost1.primenet.com (mailhost1.primenet.com [198.68.32.51]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id VAA03387; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:25:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from usr5.primenet.com (root@usr5.primenet.com [198.68.32.15]) by mailhost1.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA27455; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:26:30 GMT Received: (from peterqz@localhost) by usr5.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) id WAA18716; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:25:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:25:31 -0700 (MST) From: Peter Quizert Message-Id: <199511110525.WAA18716@usr5.primenet.com> To: firewalls-digest@GreatCircle.COM, list-managers-digest@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, phonestation-digest@GreatCircle.COM, sunflash-f-usa@FlashBack.COM, sunworld@FlashBack.COM, usa@FlashBack.COM Subject: Are You Preapred? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk The Problem: Most companies require a pre-employment drug test. If you are seeking employment, on probation, or in the military, you will have to take a drug test. Another Problem: Eating the wrong breakfast, or using certain over-the- counter pain relievers will falsely identify you as a drug user. The Real Problem: Public and private employers spend 1.2 billion dollars each year (1992 figures) on drug tests that are unreliable and inaccurate. Even hard working employees that do not use drugs are at risk. The Solution: ================================ Know the Facts. Know what foods and over the counter medicines are routinely mistaken for common illegal drugs. Simply eating a poppy seed bagel before a drug test can identify you as an opiate user. Know how long different illicit drugs can be detected in your system. Marijuana can be detected for more than a month if nothing is done to conceal its use. Know the different types of drug tests, especially the ones you are likely to face. GC/MS tests are almost impossible to beat, but are seldom used. The more common EMIT test is much easier to fool -- if you know how. Be Prepared! Know when the test is coming. Do not use illicit drugs, or ingest cross-reactive substances before the test. Clean your system of drug metabolites and cross-reactive substances. Drink plenty of water and urinate as often as possible before the test. Do NOT give them your first urine of the day! Use Clean 'n Clear. Clean 'n Clear is a three phase system designed to Clean out your body, so you will give Clear urine and Clear the test. The unique Clean 'n Clear Package includes: 1. Simple step-by-step instructions 2. All natural blood purifiers 3. All natural urine flow stimulators 4. Coloring vitamins to put 'yellow' back in your clear urine 5. Information you need about drug testing 6. A guarantee! This is not a simplistic "tea" or golden seal approach to the problem! This amazing three phase system is guaranteed! And not just guaranteed ... We are so sure our unique three phase system will work for you that we are including a DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! Everyone has a friend who needs this information! =================================================================== -------------------------------- P R I N T and S A V E ! ! -------------------------------- Be prepared. Stop worrying now! You will pass. We guarantee it!! Order your guaranteed Clean 'n Clear package now by sending $19.95 along with your name and address to: Clean 'n Clear 2809 East Hamilton Av #121B Eau Claire, WI 54701 Most companies require pre-employment drug screens. You may only have a few days notice of a drug test. Be Prepared. Order Now! =================================================================== Sorry, Clean 'n Clear is not legal in Texas, and will NOT be mailed to Texas addresses. Distributor inquires welcome. From list-managers-owner Fri Nov 10 22:31:21 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id VAA03534 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost1.primenet.com (mailhost1.primenet.com [198.68.32.51]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id VAA03362; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from usr5.primenet.com (root@usr5.primenet.com [198.68.32.15]) by mailhost1.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA27447; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:26:27 GMT Received: (from peterqz@localhost) by usr5.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) id WAA18702; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:25:29 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:25:29 -0700 (MST) From: Peter Quizert Message-Id: <199511110525.WAA18702@usr5.primenet.com> To: bounces@GreatCircle.COM, firewalls-standards@GreatCircle.COM, firewalls@GreatCircle.COM, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-docs@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-workers@GreatCircle.COM, wvfc-members@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Are You Preapred? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk The Problem: Most companies require a pre-employment drug test. If you are seeking employment, on probation, or in the military, you will have to take a drug test. Another Problem: Eating the wrong breakfast, or using certain over-the- counter pain relievers will falsely identify you as a drug user. The Real Problem: Public and private employers spend 1.2 billion dollars each year (1992 figures) on drug tests that are unreliable and inaccurate. Even hard working employees that do not use drugs are at risk. The Solution: ================================ Know the Facts. Know what foods and over the counter medicines are routinely mistaken for common illegal drugs. Simply eating a poppy seed bagel before a drug test can identify you as an opiate user. Know how long different illicit drugs can be detected in your system. Marijuana can be detected for more than a month if nothing is done to conceal its use. Know the different types of drug tests, especially the ones you are likely to face. GC/MS tests are almost impossible to beat, but are seldom used. The more common EMIT test is much easier to fool -- if you know how. Be Prepared! Know when the test is coming. Do not use illicit drugs, or ingest cross-reactive substances before the test. Clean your system of drug metabolites and cross-reactive substances. Drink plenty of water and urinate as often as possible before the test. Do NOT give them your first urine of the day! Use Clean 'n Clear. Clean 'n Clear is a three phase system designed to Clean out your body, so you will give Clear urine and Clear the test. The unique Clean 'n Clear Package includes: 1. Simple step-by-step instructions 2. All natural blood purifiers 3. All natural urine flow stimulators 4. Coloring vitamins to put 'yellow' back in your clear urine 5. Information you need about drug testing 6. A guarantee! This is not a simplistic "tea" or golden seal approach to the problem! This amazing three phase system is guaranteed! And not just guaranteed ... We are so sure our unique three phase system will work for you that we are including a DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! Everyone has a friend who needs this information! =================================================================== -------------------------------- P R I N T and S A V E ! ! -------------------------------- Be prepared. Stop worrying now! You will pass. We guarantee it!! Order your guaranteed Clean 'n Clear package now by sending $19.95 along with your name and address to: Clean 'n Clear 2809 East Hamilton Av #121B Eau Claire, WI 54701 Most companies require pre-employment drug screens. You may only have a few days notice of a drug test. Be Prepared. Order Now! =================================================================== Sorry, Clean 'n Clear is not legal in Texas, and will NOT be mailed to Texas addresses. Distributor inquires welcome. From list-managers-owner Fri Nov 10 22:53:15 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id WAA04879 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost1.primenet.com (mailhost1.primenet.com [198.68.32.51]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id WAA04772; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:02:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from usr5.primenet.com (root@usr5.primenet.com [198.68.32.15]) by mailhost1.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA01866; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:03:15 GMT Received: (from peterqz@localhost) by usr5.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) id XAA27947; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:02:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:02:17 -0700 (MST) From: Peter Quizert Message-Id: <199511110602.XAA27947@usr5.primenet.com> To: firewalls-digest@GreatCircle.COM, list-managers-digest@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, phonestation-digest@GreatCircle.COM, sunflash-f-usa@FlashBack.COM, sunworld@FlashBack.COM, usa@FlashBack.COM Subject: Are You Preapred? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk The Problem: Most companies require a pre-employment drug test. If you are seeking employment, on probation, or in the military, you will have to take a drug test. Another Problem: Eating the wrong breakfast, or using certain over-the- counter pain relievers will falsely identify you as a drug user. The Real Problem: Public and private employers spend 1.2 billion dollars each year (1992 figures) on drug tests that are unreliable and inaccurate. Even hard working employees that do not use drugs are at risk. The Solution: ================================ Know the Facts. Know what foods and over the counter medicines are routinely mistaken for common illegal drugs. Simply eating a poppy seed bagel before a drug test can identify you as an opiate user. Know how long different illicit drugs can be detected in your system. Marijuana can be detected for more than a month if nothing is done to conceal its use. Know the different types of drug tests, especially the ones you are likely to face. GC/MS tests are almost impossible to beat, but are seldom used. The more common EMIT test is much easier to fool -- if you know how. Be Prepared! Know when the test is coming. Do not use illicit drugs, or ingest cross-reactive substances before the test. Clean your system of drug metabolites and cross-reactive substances. Drink plenty of water and urinate as often as possible before the test. Do NOT give them your first urine of the day! Use Clean 'n Clear. Clean 'n Clear is a three phase system designed to Clean out your body, so you will give Clear urine and Clear the test. The unique Clean 'n Clear Package includes: 1. Simple step-by-step instructions 2. All natural blood purifiers 3. All natural urine flow stimulators 4. Coloring vitamins to put 'yellow' back in your clear urine 5. Information you need about drug testing 6. A guarantee! This is not a simplistic "tea" or golden seal approach to the problem! This amazing three phase system is guaranteed! And not just guaranteed ... We are so sure our unique three phase system will work for you that we are including a DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! Everyone has a friend who needs this information! =================================================================== -------------------------------- P R I N T and S A V E ! ! -------------------------------- Be prepared. Stop worrying now! You will pass. We guarantee it!! Order your guaranteed Clean 'n Clear package now by sending $19.95 along with your name and address to: Clean 'n Clear 2809 East Hamilton Av #121D Eau Claire, WI 54701 Most companies require pre-employment drug screens. You may only have a few days notice of a drug test. Be Prepared. Order Now! =================================================================== Sorry, Clean 'n Clear is not legal in Texas, and will NOT be mailed to Texas addresses. Distributor inquires welcome. From list-managers-owner Fri Nov 10 22:59:16 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id WAA04973 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:04:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost1.primenet.com (mailhost1.primenet.com [198.68.32.51]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id WAA04758; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from usr5.primenet.com (root@usr5.primenet.com [198.68.32.15]) by mailhost1.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA01862; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:03:14 GMT Received: (from peterqz@localhost) by usr5.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) id XAA27939; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:02:15 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:02:15 -0700 (MST) From: Peter Quizert Message-Id: <199511110602.XAA27939@usr5.primenet.com> To: bounces@GreatCircle.COM, firewalls-standards@GreatCircle.COM, firewalls@GreatCircle.COM, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-docs@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-workers@GreatCircle.COM, wvfc-members@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Are You Preapred? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk The Problem: Most companies require a pre-employment drug test. If you are seeking employment, on probation, or in the military, you will have to take a drug test. Another Problem: Eating the wrong breakfast, or using certain over-the- counter pain relievers will falsely identify you as a drug user. The Real Problem: Public and private employers spend 1.2 billion dollars each year (1992 figures) on drug tests that are unreliable and inaccurate. Even hard working employees that do not use drugs are at risk. The Solution: ================================ Know the Facts. Know what foods and over the counter medicines are routinely mistaken for common illegal drugs. Simply eating a poppy seed bagel before a drug test can identify you as an opiate user. Know how long different illicit drugs can be detected in your system. Marijuana can be detected for more than a month if nothing is done to conceal its use. Know the different types of drug tests, especially the ones you are likely to face. GC/MS tests are almost impossible to beat, but are seldom used. The more common EMIT test is much easier to fool -- if you know how. Be Prepared! Know when the test is coming. Do not use illicit drugs, or ingest cross-reactive substances before the test. Clean your system of drug metabolites and cross-reactive substances. Drink plenty of water and urinate as often as possible before the test. Do NOT give them your first urine of the day! Use Clean 'n Clear. Clean 'n Clear is a three phase system designed to Clean out your body, so you will give Clear urine and Clear the test. The unique Clean 'n Clear Package includes: 1. Simple step-by-step instructions 2. All natural blood purifiers 3. All natural urine flow stimulators 4. Coloring vitamins to put 'yellow' back in your clear urine 5. Information you need about drug testing 6. A guarantee! This is not a simplistic "tea" or golden seal approach to the problem! This amazing three phase system is guaranteed! And not just guaranteed ... We are so sure our unique three phase system will work for you that we are including a DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!! Everyone has a friend who needs this information! =================================================================== -------------------------------- P R I N T and S A V E ! ! -------------------------------- Be prepared. Stop worrying now! You will pass. We guarantee it!! Order your guaranteed Clean 'n Clear package now by sending $19.95 along with your name and address to: Clean 'n Clear 2809 East Hamilton Av #121D Eau Claire, WI 54701 Most companies require pre-employment drug screens. You may only have a few days notice of a drug test. Be Prepared. Order Now! =================================================================== Sorry, Clean 'n Clear is not legal in Texas, and will NOT be mailed to Texas addresses. Distributor inquires welcome. From list-managers-owner Fri Nov 10 23:40:46 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id XAA08521 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom18.netcom.com (netcom18.netcom.com [192.100.81.131]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id XAA08511; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:04:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by netcom18.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id XAA25789; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:02:53 -0800 From: jadestar@netcom.com (JaDe) Message-Id: <199511110702.XAA25789@netcom18.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Are You Preapred? To: peterqz@primenet.com (Peter Quizert) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:02:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: firewalls-digest@GreatCircle.COM, list-managers-digest@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, phonestation-digest@GreatCircle.COM, sunflash-f-usa@FlashBack.COM, sunworld@FlashBack.COM, usa@FlashBack.COM In-Reply-To: <199511110525.WAA18716@usr5.primenet.com> from "Peter Quizert" at Nov 10, 95 10:25:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > > > > The Problem: > > Most companies require a pre-employment drug test. > If you are seeking employment, on probation, or in > the military, you will have to take a drug test. I've already bounced copies two of these to my postmaster, and the postmaster at Primenet. I've also called the InterNIC administrative contact at Primenet (which is where this appears to be coming from). So, just this once, could we skip the secondary and tertiary waves of "I hate spammers" posts? (I realize that this won't be the last we hear about this -- but let's please keep the rest off the mailing lists themselves). From list-managers-owner Sat Nov 11 06:53:16 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id GAA20285 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 06:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.net (phoenix.phoenix.net [199.3.232.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id GAA20279 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 06:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from spiralnet.phoenix.net ([199.3.234.29]) by phoenix.net (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA26768 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:34:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199511111434.IAA26768@phoenix.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Siberia" Organization: SpiralNet Technologies, Inc. To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:34:27 -0600 Subject: That annoying magazine spam Reply-to: klong@phoenix.net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.20) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I know everyone on this list is sick of spam related email but I am wondering...are my lists the only ones that continue to be hit by the magazine subscription spam? I am still getting them sent to my lists atleast every 3-5 days. Fortunatly the sender is inserting an invalid approve header which keeps it from hitting the general list population but it is still annoying. BTW, could someone send me the subscription information for the SPAM list? Thanks in advance. Namaste' Kimberly Long klong@phoenix.net Nothing is more dangerous than an idea, when it's the only one we have. Emile Auguste Chartier ) O ( From list-managers-owner Sat Nov 11 08:53:17 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id IAA22053 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:27:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from hera.cuci.nl (hera.cuci.nl [194.183.100.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id IAA22048; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srb@localhost) by hera.cuci.nl (8.7.1/BuGless_1.02) id RAA22009; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:27:46 +0100 Message-Id: <199511111627.RAA22009@hera.cuci.nl> From: srb@cuci.nl (Stephen R. van den Berg) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:27:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: Peter Quizert's message as of 1995 Nov 10 Fri 23:02. <199511110602.XAA27947@usr5.primenet.com> To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Are You Preapred? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Does anybody happen to know if it is possible to extract the original version of this spam from a majordomo archive? I.e. in the state it was (including exact headers) before it went through the mailinglist? -- Sincerely, srb@cuci.nl Stephen R. van den Berg (AKA BuGless). Auto repair rates: basic labor $40/hour; if you wait, $60; if you watch, $80; if you ask questions, $100; if you help, $120; if you laugh, $140. From list-managers-owner Sat Nov 11 09:10:27 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id IAA22092 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:34:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from hera.cuci.nl (hera.cuci.nl [194.183.100.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with ESMTP id IAA22087 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srb@localhost) by hera.cuci.nl (8.7.1/BuGless_1.02) id RAA22271; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:33:34 +0100 Message-Id: <199511111633.RAA22271@hera.cuci.nl> From: srb@cuci.nl (Stephen R. van den Berg) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:33:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: klong@phoenix.net's message as of 1995 Nov 11 Sat 8:34. <199511111434.IAA26768@phoenix.net> To: klong@phoenix.net, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: That annoying magazine spam Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk klong@phoenix.net wrote: >wondering...are my lists the only ones that continue to be hit by the >magazine subscription spam? I am still getting them sent to my lists >atleast every 3-5 days. Fortunatly the sender is inserting an No, two of my lists have it as a regularly scheduled broadcast. Although last time (today) it was filtered out. Also, the frequency isn't that high. More like every 2 weeks. -- Sincerely, srb@cuci.nl Stephen R. van den Berg (AKA BuGless). Auto repair rates: basic labor $40/hour; if you wait, $60; if you watch, $80; if you ask questions, $100; if you help, $120; if you laugh, $140. From list-managers-owner Sat Nov 11 09:23:16 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id IAA22256 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:55:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from access.netaxs.com (access.netaxs.com [198.69.186.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id IAA22249; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:55:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from unix2.netaxs.com (jgreshes@unix2.netaxs.com [198.69.186.4]) by access.netaxs.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA05014; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:55:55 -0500 Received: (jgreshes@localhost) by unix2.netaxs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA18222; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:55:53 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:55:52 -0500 (EST) From: Jason and Jill To: JaDe cc: list-managers-digest@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Are You Preapred? In-Reply-To: <199511110702.XAA25789@netcom18.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > > I've already bounced copies two of these to my postmaster, > and the postmaster at Primenet. I've also called the > InterNIC administrative contact at Primenet (which is where > this appears to be coming from). > > So, just this once, could we skip the secondary and tertiary > waves of "I hate spammers" posts? (I realize that this won't > be the last we hear about this -- but let's please keep the > rest off the mailing lists themselves). > Sorry, one thing to add: Anyone else think its about time the lists command was chucked altogether? It doesn't serve much of a purpose--all you get is a list of the listnames at a certain host, few listowners put in the one-line info about the purpose of the list, so what good is the command to anyone besides spammers putting together their distribution list. All of my lists at eskimo.com were spammed tonight, and it was exceedingly obvious that it was done using the output of a lists command sent to the majordomo. In the six hours since the spam hit, I've seen discussion on everyone of the hit lists about restricting posting to list members. This is a solution without a solution--if every lists does it, spammers will simply send out a burst of sub messages before their spams, and they'll send out a ton of unsubs afterwards. I also don't see the use of sending back a ton of replies to a spammer. People almost never change the subject of their reply, and procmail can be sent to quietly dump any incomming mail with that subject to /dev/null. So a spammer can get in a gigabyte of hate mail, core files, uudecoded gifs of Orson Well's butt, etc., and with three simple lines in their .procmailrc set things so they never see a single reply. Without the lists commands, spammers will stuck trying to build distributions lists from meta-lists and the like, a much more daunting process than getting a nice, perfectly arranged, column of address to mail to. Jason From list-managers-owner Sat Nov 11 12:53:17 1995 Received: (majordom@localhost) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) id MAA27060 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 12:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from CU.NIH.GOV (cu.nih.gov [128.231.64.111]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.7.1/Miles-950430-1) with SMTP id MAA27053 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 12:33:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199511112033.MAA27053@miles.greatcircle.com> To: klong@phoenix.net, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: "Roger Fajman" Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:33:40 EST Subject: Re: That annoying magazine spam Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > BTW, could someone send me the > subscription information for the SPAM list? Thanks in advance. SPAM-L@P