From list-managers-owner Tue Dec 8 12:44:11 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id MAA03275; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) id MAA03265 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from doris.estnet.ee (doris.estnet.ee [193.40.248.20]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id HAA01936 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from blackout.online.ee (blackout.online.ee [194.106.96.210]) by doris.estnet.ee (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA29086 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:08:06 +0200 (EET) Received: from www [127.0.0.1] by blackout.online.ee [194.106.96.210] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP4.R) for ; Sat, 05 Dec 1998 18:03:17 +0200 Message-ID: <005d01be2068$c58ad410$0100007f@www.blakout.net> Reply-To: "Roman Melihhov" From: "Roman Melihhov" To: Subject: Why don't I get fters added to message? Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:03:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM X-Return-Path: roman@blackout.online.ee Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk There's no footers added to outgoing messages allthough I have following in my config: # message_footer [string_array] (undef) # Text to be appended at the end of all messages posted to the # list. The text is expanded before being used. The following # expansion tokens are defined: $LIST - the name of the current # list, $SENDER - the sender as taken from the from line, $VERSION, # the version of majordomo. If used in a digest, no expansion # tokens are provided message_footer << END * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Address: HOMIES-FORUM@blakout.net To join/leave, send command: SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE $LIST via email to Majordomo@blakout.net or use online List-Homie wizard http://www.blakout.net/cgi-bin/webdriver.pl?step=listhomie Help: owner-homies-forum@blakout.net END From list-managers-owner Wed Dec 9 04:20:37 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id DAA16876; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.urz.uni-wuppertal.de (mailgate.urz.uni-wuppertal.de [132.195.20.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id DAA16866 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni-wuppertal.de.uni-wuppertal.de (isdn74.dialin.uni-wuppertal.de [132.195.23.74]) by mailgate.urz.uni-wuppertal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA15682; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:10:19 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981209130418.0085aac0@mailgate.uni-wuppertal.de> X-Sender: guzman@mailgate.uni-wuppertal.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:04:18 +0100 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, roman@blackout.online.ee From: "Dr.-Ing.H. Guzman" Subject: Re: Why don't I get fters added to message? In-Reply-To: <005d01be2068$c58ad410$0100007f@www.blakout.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi, I had/have the same troubles with the footer. My conclusion is that the 'resend' program don't understand the command of the List.configuration. So I'm trying to understand the resend... Henry From list-managers-owner Wed Dec 9 06:20:13 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id GAA18255; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:00:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from recife.di.ufpe.br (di.ufpe.br [150.161.2.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id GAA18239 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:00:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from paulista.di.ufpe.br (paulista [150.161.2.50]) by recife.di.ufpe.br (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA23339; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:16:15 -0300 (EST) Received: from localhost (jftm@localhost) by paulista.di.ufpe.br (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29876; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:16:15 -0300 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: paulista.di.ufpe.br: jftm owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:16:14 -0300 (EST) From: Jose Fernando Tepedino Martins X-Sender: jftm@paulista To: Roman Melihhov cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Why don't I get fters added to message? In-Reply-To: <005d01be2068$c58ad410$0100007f@www.blakout.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Roman, I've found the same problem in my lists. It seems that Majordomo is getting confused with the first blank line defined in the footer. In the initial comments of a list's config file, there is: > # Within a here document for a string_array, the '-' sign takes on a > # special significance. > # > # To embed a blank line in the here document, put a '-' as the first > # and ONLY character on the line. > # > # To preserve whitespace at the beginning of a line, put a - on the > # line before the whitespace to be preserved > # > # To put a literal '-' at the beginning of a line, double it. > # The solution seems to be putting a "-" in the first (blank line), like: message_footer << END - ... (text) ... END Regards, ---------------------------------------- | Jose Fernando Tepedino | My first act of free will | e-mail: jftm@di.ufpe.br | shall be to believe in free will [...] | www: http://www.di.ufpe.br/~jftm | Consciousness is essentially free; | Departamento de Informatica | it is freedom itself | Universidade Federal de Pernambuco | | Recife Brasil | (Henri Bergson) ---------------------------------------- On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Roman Melihhov wrote: > There's no footers added to outgoing messages allthough I have following in > my config: > > # message_footer [string_array] (undef) > # Text to be appended at the end of all messages posted to the > # list. The text is expanded before being used. The following > # expansion tokens are defined: $LIST - the name of the current > # list, $SENDER - the sender as taken from the from line, $VERSION, > # the version of majordomo. If used in a digest, no expansion > # tokens are provided > message_footer << END > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Address: HOMIES-FORUM@blakout.net > To join/leave, send command: > SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE $LIST > via email to Majordomo@blakout.net or use online List-Homie wizard > http://www.blakout.net/cgi-bin/webdriver.pl?step=listhomie > Help: owner-homies-forum@blakout.net > END > From list-managers-owner Wed Dec 9 12:45:24 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id MAA22861; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id MAA22854 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:30:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Default (pool044-max3.ontario-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.151.144]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA26287 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:47:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:47:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812092047.MAA26287@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: sbrooks@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Sam Brooks Subject: Why don't I get fters added to message? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk "Roman Melihhov" asked: >There's no footers added to outgoing messages allthough I have following in >my config: >message_footer << END Roman---Get rid of this blank line! >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Address: HOMIES-FORUM@blakout.net >To join/leave, send command: >SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE $LIST >via email to Majordomo@blakout.net or use online List-Homie wizard >http://www.blakout.net/cgi-bin/webdriver.pl?step=listhomie >Help: owner-homies-forum@blakout.net >END If you want "white space" between footer and text, use hyphen "-" or an underscore____________. Sam sbrooks@earthlink.net From list-managers-owner Wed Dec 9 13:16:13 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id MAA23137; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:49:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from cyberq.quality.org (cyberq.quality.org [199.181.80.151]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id MAA23130 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:49:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (help@localhost) by cyberq.quality.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA05019 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:05:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:05:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)" Reply-To: "Bill Casti (System Admin)" To: List Managers List Subject: Re: Why don't I get fters added to message? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981209130418.0085aac0@mailgate.uni-wuppertal.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk From help@quality.org Wed Dec 9 16:04:56 1998 Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:10:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)" To: Roman Melihhov Subject: Re: Why don't I get fters added to message? You have to replace the "<< END" with an equal sign and some text to see footers, eg. message_footer = To leave this list, send an "unsubscribe LISTNAME" message to..."" Make sure that the entire text is on a SINGLE LINE, even if it goes past the right margin, or it won't work at all. "<< END" is the default, which is NO footer. Read your Majordomo documentation which is VERY clear on all this! ============================================================================= Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149 President, AQC, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shop our Online Quality Resources Website and Marketplace at http://www.quality.org/shopping.htm ============================================================================= On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Roman Melihhov wrote: > There's no footers added to outgoing messages allthough I have following in > my config: > > # message_footer [string_array] (undef) > # Text to be appended at the end of all messages posted to the > # list. The text is expanded before being used. The following > # expansion tokens are defined: $LIST - the name of the current > # list, $SENDER - the sender as taken from the from line, $VERSION, > # the version of majordomo. If used in a digest, no expansion > # tokens are provided > message_footer << END > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Address: HOMIES-FORUM@blakout.net > To join/leave, send command: > SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE $LIST > via email to Majordomo@blakout.net or use online List-Homie wizard > http://www.blakout.net/cgi-bin/webdriver.pl?step=listhomie > Help: owner-homies-forum@blakout.net > END > > On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Dr.-Ing.H. Guzman wrote: > Hi, > I had/have the same troubles with the footer. > My conclusion is that the 'resend' program > don't understand the command of the List.configuration. > > So I'm trying to understand the resend... > > Henry > > From list-managers-owner Wed Dec 9 23:30:17 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id XAA02238; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id XAA02230 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.054 #18) id 0zntoR-000FYm-00; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:18:35 +0000 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:18:35 +0000 From: Ben Smithurst To: "Bill Casti (System Admin)" Cc: List Managers List Subject: Re: Why don't I get fters added to message? Message-ID: <19981210001835.A59652@scientia.demon.co.uk> References: <3.0.1.32.19981209130418.0085aac0@mailgate.uni-wuppertal.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/0.94.17i (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Bill Casti (System Admin) wrote: > You have to replace the "<< END" with an equal sign and some text to see > footers, eg. [...] > "<< END" is the default, which is NO footer. Read your Majordomo > documentation which is VERY clear on all this! Try again, << END means the footer will consist of everything up to the line containing "END". Someone else has pointed out that the problem seems to be the blank line, which shouldn't be there. Using message_footer = "foo" also seems to work, though, but << END looks nicer with multiple lines. -- Ben Smithurst ben@scientia.demon.co.uk send a blank message to ben+pgp@scientia.demon.co.uk for PGP key From list-managers-owner Thu Dec 10 02:17:06 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id BAA04982; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:53:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from praline.no.neosoft.com (praline.no.NeoSoft.COM [206.27.160.253]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id BAA04975 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:53:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 2012 invoked by uid 10086); 10 Dec 1998 10:09:24 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:09:24 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Jones To: roman@blackout.online.ee cc: List Managers List Subject: Re: Why don't I get fters added to message? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Bill Casti (System Admin) wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:05:28 -0500 (EST) > You have to replace the "<< END" with an equal sign and some text to see > footers, eg. I think this guy is just trying to be a wiseass OR he may really be that stupid. Regardless, not one word of what he sent you is true. I don't have your original message but think I may have already replied to it. It is PROBABLY because you have a blank line in your footer. Blank lines must be designated by a "-" -- Regards, "Big Ray the Cab Driver" Jones - Licensed Tour Guide ICQ UIN 1473313 Author of "The Complete Idiot's Travel Guide to New Orleans" ISBN 0-02-862303-7 Disseminating info about New Orleans & Louisiana via my web page at http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html or you can join "Big Ray's" New Orleans Mailing List by sending: subscribe noml To: majordomo@communique.net /"\ \ / X ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML Usenet posts and e-mail / \ From list-managers-owner Thu Dec 10 06:52:41 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id GAA10053; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id GAA10045 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:20:03 -0800 (PST) From: ChuckMiro@aol.com Received: from ChuckMiro@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LSQJa15057 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:35:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:35:18 EST To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Legal Disclaimers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I'm interested in including some kind of legal disclaimer in the material that is automatically sent to new subscribers. I have rules against copyright infringement, email-address harvesting, etc., but would like some disclaimer just in case. Could others who have legal disclaimers for their lists please post copies of them so that I can see what others have done? Thanks! :) Chuck From list-managers-owner Thu Dec 10 10:04:31 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id JAA12165; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.tssi.com (gw.tssi.com [198.147.197.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id JAA12153 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:35:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from celery.tssi.com (nolan@celery.tssi.com [198.147.197.6]) by gw.tssi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11690; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:51:21 -0600 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA31659; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:51:20 -0600 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199812101751.LAA31659@celery.tssi.com> Subject: Re: Legal Disclaimers To: ChuckMiro@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:51:20 -0600 (CST) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) In-Reply-To: from "ChuckMiro@aol.com" at Dec 10, 98 09:35:18 am Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ChuckMiro@aol.com wrote: > > I'm interested in including some kind of legal disclaimer in the material that > is automatically sent to new subscribers. I have rules against copyright > infringement, email-address harvesting, etc., but would like some disclaimer > just in case. > > Could others who have legal disclaimers for their lists please post copies of > them so that I can see what others have done? My guidelines and disclaimers document is quite long, and probably not worth the bandwidth to send to this list, but anyone who wants a copy can get it, along with the FAQ, by sending e-mail to unlfaq@tssi.com. It is also available at http://www.tssi.com/husker. -- Mike Nolan From list-managers-owner Thu Dec 10 10:46:47 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id KAA13015; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:30:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp2.vnet.net (smtp2.vnet.net [166.82.1.32]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id KAA13001 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:30:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from katie.vnet.net (katie.vnet.net [166.82.1.7]) by smtp2.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06214; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (murr@localhost) by katie.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03917; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:46:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: katie.vnet.net: murr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:46:44 -0500 (EST) From: murr rhame To: ChuckMiro@aol.com cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Legal Disclaimers (sample) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here is an excerpt from the disclaimer for a mailing list I host which deals with fireworks and other pyrotechnics. This has NOT been checked by a lawyer. You are welcome to reuse this text as you see fit. DISCLAIMERS Posts distributed by the PML mailing list should not be taken as inherently sound advice. All PML information is for educational purposes only. Any judgment regarding the validity or utility of information distributed by this mailing list must be made by the reader. There are substantial risks to health, property and general safety whenever pyrotechnic materials are handled. Misapplication or abuse of pyrotechnics can result in serious consequences for yourself and or others who may be affected by your activities. Information distributed by this mailing list is not confirmed or endorsed by the mailing list administrator. Posts are composed by individual PML subscribers and forwarded to the list by automatic software. Readers are advised to use appropriate caution if they choose to apply any of the techniques discussed on this mailing list. Don't presume that a technique is reliable/accurate/sound just because someone posted it to PML. Read the follow ups. If a truly bad idea is posted, chances are that several people will point out the problem. You are the only one who can be responsible for both your own safety and the safety of others who might be affected by your actions. - murr - From list-managers-owner Thu Dec 10 23:00:41 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id WAA25026; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from loom.online.ee (loom.online.ee [194.106.96.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id WAA25012 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 29711 invoked from network); 11 Dec 1998 08:52:09 +0200 Received: from blackout.online.ee (194.106.96.210) by loom.online.ee with SMTP; 11 Dec 1998 08:52:09 +0200 Received: from www [127.0.0.1] by blackout.online.ee [194.106.96.210] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP4.R) for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:48:45 +0200 From: "Roman Melihhov" To: Subject: RE: Legal Disclaimers Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:48:44 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 9.0, Build 4.71.2233.5 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM X-Return-Path: roman@blackout.online.ee Reply-To: roman@blackout.online.ee Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here's one I have for WWW board. Generally it goes like that: DISCLAIMER: This is a public forum. Freedom of speech is the name of the = game here. Server side includes will be removed. We don't want our = server to get sour, do we? Messages posted are not endorsed neither by = THE CLUB, nor International Production team or Q-PRESS. Hope this helps From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 11 04:59:59 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id EAA03483; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from arthur.monkman.org (cpu1787.adsl.bellglobal.com [206.47.37.18]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id EAA03468 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:41:22 -0800 (PST) Received: id HAA01630; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:51:01 -0500 Received: by gateway id HAA22408 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:54:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brian@monkman.org) Message-Id: <199812111254.HAA22408@monkman.org> From: "Brian Monkman" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:56:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Legal Disclaimers Reply-to: brian@monkman.org In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here's what I use on the list I run. After a header before that contains the name and e-mail address of the poster I put the following footer after every message: === (c) 1998 === This message, and all e-mail to briards-online is copyrighted by its original author. Any copying, posting or other form of re-transmission to anywhere other then briards-online without the expressed consent of the author is a violation of this copyright. In addition, the owners and operators of briards.org, briards-online@briards.org and any affiliated entity do not necessarily share the opinions expressed by the author of this message. The opinions expressed are solely the responsibility of the author. Hope this helps. Brian Monkman --- Brian Monkman - Nepean, Ontario brian@monkman.org http://www.monkman.org Faith and reason are like the shoes on your feet. You can walk with one, but it is easier to travel farther with both. From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 11 08:48:38 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id IAA07420; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.tssi.com (gw.tssi.com [198.147.197.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id IAA07412 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from celery.tssi.com (nolan@celery.tssi.com [198.147.197.6]) by gw.tssi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28469 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:49:49 -0600 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA13658 for list-managers@GreatCircle.com; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:49:47 -0600 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199812111649.KAA13658@celery.tssi.com> Subject: hotmail problems? To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:49:47 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Not specifically a list problem, but is anyone else having problems with mail delivery to hotmail? I've been getting 'connection refused' with them since Wednesday. It looks like some mail may be getting through, but not much. -- Mike Nolan From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 11 10:01:00 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id JAA08628; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:42:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu (BROCCOLI.GRAPHICS.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.247.53]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id JAA08621 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from graphics.cornell.edu (LOCALHOST) by broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA165219135; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:58:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199812111758.AA165219135@broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: nolan@tssi.com Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) Subject: Re: hotmail problems? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:49:47 CST." <199812111649.KAA13658@celery.tssi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:58:54 -0500 From: Mitch Collinsworth Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk problems yes. big problems, no not yet. poking through the logs I see a lot of hit and miss. Lots of failed connections, but lots of good ones, too. There are not a large number of queued messages for them, so it's slowed, but not to a full stop. But we've only got 3 sizeable lists running here. Might be a different story at a "large" site. Errors I'm seeing: stat=Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with mail.hotmail.com stat=Deferred: Connection reset by peer during greeting wait with mail.hotmail.com stat=Deferred: Connection reset by peer during RCPT wait with mail.hotmail.com stat=Deferred stat=Deferred: Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable. delays are running from 0 to 5 hours. -Mitch >Not specifically a list problem, but is anyone else having problems with >mail delivery to hotmail? I've been getting 'connection refused' with >them since Wednesday. It looks like some mail may be getting through, >but not much. >-- >Mike Nolan -- "Families can't trust Disney" From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 11 17:07:27 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id QAA16866; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:51:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from scifi.squawk.com (scifi.squawk.com [199.74.151.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id QAA16859 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from tpad.squawk.com (dhcp004.squawk.com [199.74.151.224]) by scifi.squawk.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA18901 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:08:26 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981211200825.03b9ccb0@scifi.squawk.com> X-Sender: njs@scifi.squawk.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:08:25 -0500 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM (List Managers) From: Nick Simicich Subject: Re: hotmail problems? In-Reply-To: <199812111758.AA165219135@broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 12:58 PM 12/11/98 -0500, Mitch Collinsworth wrote: > >problems yes. big problems, no not yet. poking through the logs I >see a lot of hit and miss. Lots of failed connections, but lots of >good ones, too. There are not a large number of queued messages for >them, so it's slowed, but not to a full stop. But we've only got 3 >sizeable lists running here. Might be a different story at a "large" >site. Of 203 items of queued mail on my system, 162 have pending hotmail recipients. However, I just started a "sendmail -v -qNhotmail" and it got a connection to hotmail and is busily (but slowly) delivering mail. I'd say that they are having a problem, but they are taking mail. -- That which does not kill us, makes us stronger. That which does kill us makes us smell stronger, after a few days, anyway. Nick Simicich mailto:njs@scifi.squawk.com or (last choice) mailto:njs@us.ibm.com http://scifi.squawk.com/njs.html -- Stop by and Light Up The World! From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 11 18:22:12 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id SAA18290; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM (tymix.tymnet.com [131.146.2.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id SAA18280 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:10:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08207; Fri, 11 Dec 98 18:27:11 PST Received: from tardis by Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 11 Dec 98 18:27:10 PST Received: from romana.Tymnet.COM by tardis.Tymnet.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA15260; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:27:08 -0800 Received: from romana by romana.Tymnet.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA14740; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:27:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199812120227.SAA14740@romana.Tymnet.COM> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:27:06 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Smith Reply-To: Joe Smith Subject: Re: hotmail problems? To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Md5: TdVUlNLxkqSinXj2S75KRQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk There was an item in 11 o'clock news last night and today's paper: "ATT admits e-mail delivery is slow. Too many people sending multimedia Christmas and Hannuka cards are clogging up the system. Last year, e-mail peaked at 28 gigabytes per day, yesterday it was up to 91 gigabytes per day. Delays of up to 48 hours are expected." E-mail to MCI.COM is also running slow. Joe Smith MCI WorldCom, Network Management, Product Technical Support UNIX and Tech Sup: TYMNET Network, Xstream Packet Services (Public X.25) 2560 N 1st St, MS-5046/746, San Jose, CA 95131 Voice: vnet 854-6220 = 408-922-6220 Fax: vnet 854-6702 = 408-922-6702 From list-managers-owner Sat Dec 12 00:51:10 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id AAA25591; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:48:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ykbgate (ykbgate.ykb.com [195.33.225.162]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id AAA25583 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by ykbgate; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA06317; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:33:18 +0200 Received: by plaza.ykb.com; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA09043; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:53:34 +0200 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-Lotus-Fromdomain: YKBNOTES From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?"=DDHSAN_=C7AKMAKLI"?= To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Cc: Mike Nolan Message-Id: Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:05:20 +0200 Subject: hotmail problems? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi, Yes, I have got hundreds of mail waiting for hotmail. I haven't had a good connection since Wednesday. Regards. From list-managers-owner Tue Dec 15 02:04:55 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id CAA29433; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:02:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pakdis.ined.fr (pakdis.ined.fr [192.134.12.17]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id CAA29426 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:02:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sauvy.ined.fr (sauvy.ined.fr [192.134.12.3]) by pakdis.ined.fr (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA07706 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:18:46 GMT Received: from ppp00.ined.fr by sauvy.ined.fr (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA24438; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:14:29 +0100 From: "Nicolas Brouard" To: "list-managers" Subject: Etiquette of List Owners Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:10:48 +0100 Message-Id: <001101be2813$300b7720$600c86c0@brd> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Some years ago, Amy Stinson posted on this mailing list a short notice on List Etiquette. Is there something more substantial accessible from the WEB now. Here in France, we do have a hard discussion on the use of ethnicity in statitistics and its usefulness and its discriminatory aspects. The discussion escaped recently from the scientific world (scientific reviews) into the french media: books, news-papers (Le Monde, Libération, most of them), TV, reviews, radio etc. because some aspects are very political. Some of my colleagues are trying to put the discussion back on a scientific mailing list which just started but is successful because of the variety of the first subscribers. The etiquette of this list is not clearly enough advertised and the owners of the list are facing some problems which are probably common to others list owners. For example, when someone wants to subscribe to a list foo@host.edu is it enough to receive a message from an automated list server telling you that your subscription message has been sent to "foo-owner@host.edu" where foo-owner is not the names of the owners but an alias to some hypothetical live people? I think that it is enough if the identity of the owners is revealed in the answer to the subscription request, but other potential subscribers might be hesitant. On the opposite, in this particular list on ethnicity, the owners received a subscription request from a meaningless email address without any mention of the name and institution of the subscriber. Asking for the ethnic origins of the subscriber might be a litle too provocative, but at least, asking for name and institute is probably necessary and sufficient. Where are the usual limits? We know that some people, from the press (journalists), from the court (lawers), from the political spheres who have been concerned by the recents controversial attacks, want to have access to the mails without subscribing to the list (voyeurisme). Can it be stated, for example, that messages posted to the list should not be forwarded? In summary, does anybody from list-managers-owners's list have ever lived such experience and written an etiquette useful for the owners and the subscribers. In addition, the owners of the list on ethnicity, put a selection of the messages posted to the list directly on the WEB. Many members from the list disagree because of this selection. Question: is it possible to archive on the WEB all the messages posted to this list? I know that programs like Mhonarc do it but how to retrict the access only to members of the mailing list? For example, is it possible to use the password which is sent after a subscription to a listproc (this password is used for an interactive internet service, ilp, to retrieve old messages) as a password in the .htaccess files. Is it operational to do it, or should the owners of the ethnicity list change from listproc to a more WEB oriented mailing list? What are them, preferably in the public domain? -- Nicolas Brouard Institut national d'études démographiques Paris brouard@ined.fr http://sauvy.ined.fr/~brouard -- Nicolas Brouard Institut national d'études démographiques Paris brouard@ined.fr http://sauvy.ined.fr/~brouard From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 08:50:09 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id IAA12282; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mushi.colo.neosoft.com (mushi.colo.neosoft.com [206.109.6.82]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id IAA12259 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:43:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 9424 invoked from network); 18 Dec 1998 17:01:37 -0000 Received: from bonkers.neosoft.com (HELO bonkers.taronga.com) (206.109.2.48) by mushi.colo.neosoft.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 1998 17:01:37 -0000 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA04887 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:01:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from arielle) From: Stephanie da Silva Message-Id: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Mailing List Clearinghouse To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:01:35 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I've been approached by someone who wants to use the PAML in a novel way. He's planning on setting up a web site to perform various mailing list services. One of the things he wants to do is put a button on all the mailing list pages so if you click on it, it will generate a s*bscr*ption request for that list from his site. Because of the dozens of different varieties of mailing list managers, I have my doubts that this will even work. But my question to you is, what would you think of a third party forwarding administrative requests to you/your listserver via their web interface? From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 11:49:05 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id LAA14535; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:43:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell7.ba.best.com (shell7.ba.best.com [206.184.139.138]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id LAA14528 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:42:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cnorman@localhost) by shell7.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) id MAA02926; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:00:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:00:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812182000.MAA02926@shell7.ba.best.com> From: Cyndi Norman To: arielle@Taronga.COM CC: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, cnorman@best.com In-reply-to: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> (message from Stephanie da Silva on Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:01:35 -0600 (CST)) Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse Reply-to: cnorman@best.com Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Well, I wrote too soon. Just after sending my last note, I got a message in my other account (the one for the mailing lists) that seems to be from the man that Stephanie is talking about. "I am the manager of the ListsNet Directory, a web site (http://www.listsnet.com/) whose mission is to provide users with automatic subscription to the best mailing lists available on the Internet. I have read your list's description in the PAML (Publicly Available Mailing List Directory, http://www.neosoft.com/internet/paml), and I think it would make a great addition to our database (if it is indeed a public list)." From: Scott Walldren ListsNet Directory Manager swalldren@groupworks.com It appears that users have to buy a product called ListsNet Tuner before they can use the database. $34.95. It's free to list a list. Listsnet also let's users get info about your list they may have lost, like unsubscribe directions or the webpage address. Of course, mine are at the bottom of every post. It implies, but I'm not sure, that you can customize for the type of list software you use. Well, I'm less impressed now. I suppose, if this takes off, I'll list my lists (assuming I won't get malformed requests) but it's hardly a boon to my subscribers. Oh well. Cyndi -- _______________________________________________________________________________ "There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cyndi@consultclarity.com http://www.consultclarity.com/ _________________ Owner of the Immune Website & Lists http://www.immuneweb.org/ From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 13:04:59 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id NAA15716; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:00:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gsp.org (rsk.itw.com [208.211.3.21]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id NAA15698 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rsk@localhost) by gsp.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA18778 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:18:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19981218161854.A18722@gsp.org> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:18:54 -0500 From: Rich Kulawiec To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse References: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com>; from Stephanie da Silva on Fri, Dec 18, 1998 at 11:01:35AM -0600 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Fri, Dec 18, 1998 at 11:01:35AM -0600, Stephanie da Silva wrote: > But my question to you > is, what would you think of a third party forwarding administrative > requests to you/your listserver via their web interface? I don't think it should be done without the acquiescence of each list-owner. If I wanted a web interface to facilitate subscriptions to the mailing lists that I run, I'd have one. However, I do not, and I think it's very intrusive for someone else to presume that I do and set one up on my behalf. This also creates a scalability and updating problem: when I transplant a mailing list to a new location (something I'm just about to do with one of mine) how do I get one or more web sites not under my direct control to update their references to my mailing lists *exactly* when I want them to? Or what happens if I change the MLM that handles list sub/unsub operations? In case it isn't obvious: I think this is a very bad idea for both technical and netiquette reasons. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk@gsp.org From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 13:48:54 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id NAA16374; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:44:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from commedia.cnds.jhu.edu (commedia.cnds.jhu.edu [128.220.231.250]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id NAA16367 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by commedia.cnds.jhu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16047 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:01:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:01:51 -0500 From: David Shaw To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse Message-ID: <19981218170150.A15642@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM References: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com>; from Stephanie da Silva on Fri, Dec 18, 1998 at 11:01:35AM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CB3B415/2048/4D 96 83 18 2B AF BE 45 D0 07 C4 07 51 37 B3 18 X-URL: http://www.jabberwocky.com/ X-Phase-Of-Moon: The Moon is New X-Current-Email-Backlog: 625 X-Pointless-Random-Number: 32 X-Silly-Header: It sure is. Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Fri, Dec 18, 1998 at 11:01:35AM -0600, Stephanie da Silva wrote: > > I've been approached by someone who wants to use the PAML in a novel > way. He's planning on setting up a web site to perform various > mailing list services. One of the things he wants to do is put a > button on all the mailing list pages so if you click on it, it will > generate a s*bscr*ption request for that list from his site. > > Because of the dozens of different varieties of mailing list managers, > I have my doubts that this will even work. But my question to you > is, what would you think of a third party forwarding administrative > requests to you/your listserver via their web interface? I plead with you, I humbly beg of you, I go down on my knees. PLEASE do not let him do this! I can't even count the number of hours I have spent trying to fix problems caused by the previous people who have had that bright idea.... David -- David Shaw | dshaw@jabberwocky.com | WWW http://www.jabberwocky.com/ +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." - Jeremy S. Anderson From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 14:04:53 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id OAA16706; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:01:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from deepthought.armory.com (deepthought.armory.com [192.122.209.42]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id OAA16699 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from clovis by deepthought.armory.com id aa25723; 18 Dec 98 14:19 PST Received: by clovis.nerdnosh.org (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Fri, 18 Dec 98 14:07:07 PST for list-managers@greatcircle.com To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse From: Tim Bowden Message-ID: <62eP1e4w165w@clovis.nerdnosh.org> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 98 14:02:04 PST In-Reply-To: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: NERDNOSH - the story continues... Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Stephanie da Silva writes: > Because of the dozens of different varieties of mailing list managers, > I have my doubts that this will even work. But my question to you > is, what would you think of a third party forwarding administrative > requests to you/your listserver via their web interface? All the user has to do is click and his current address is carried forth to the various lists with a join request? Or a click brings forth a blank where an address can be specified? Sounds interesting, if it does what we all want done, present the subscription suggestion to a lot of eyes to attract the ones who might stick. What's the traffic at PAML? mailto:tcbowden@clovis.nerdnosh.org (Tim Bowden) Proud member of NERDNOSH (tm)! mailto:majordomo@story.nerdnosh org the command: subscribe nerdnosh From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 14:18:56 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id OAA16781; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:07:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mushi.colo.neosoft.com (mushi.colo.neosoft.com [206.109.6.82]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id OAA16774 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:07:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 9820 invoked from network); 18 Dec 1998 22:25:06 -0000 Received: from bonkers.neosoft.com (HELO bonkers.taronga.com) (206.109.2.48) by mushi.colo.neosoft.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 1998 22:25:06 -0000 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA10252 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:24:47 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from arielle) From: Stephanie da Silva Message-Id: <199812182224.QAA10252@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:24:46 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Cyndi Norman: > Well, I wrote too soon. Just after sending my last note, I got a message > in my other account (the one for the mailing lists) that seems to be from > the man that Stephanie is talking about. This appears to be coincidental. I don't think this is the same party to which I referred before. It's kind of interesting to find out that people are using the PAML in this fashion, though not surprising. From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 14:33:53 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id OAA16858; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:10:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ac3.corenetworks.com (ac3.corenetworks.com [24.222.18.202]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id OAA16844 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jac@localhost) by ac3.corenetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA02930; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:28:12 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:28:12 -0400 (AST) From: "Jeffrey A. Campbell" To: Stephanie da Silva cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse In-Reply-To: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Stephanie da Silva wrote: > Because of the dozens of different varieties of mailing list managers, > I have my doubts that this will even work. But my question to you > is, what would you think of a third party forwarding administrative > requests to you/your listserver via their web interface? I don't have a problem with it since the sub requests are authed by the end user by confirming. So you can't sub someone else and actually cause a problem. Invariably people mess up the syntax and try 4-5 times so making it one touch is probably a good idea. -- Jeff From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 15:48:54 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id PAA17934; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:38:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp2.vnet.net (smtp2.vnet.net [166.82.1.32]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id PAA17927 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from katie.vnet.net (katie.vnet.net [166.82.1.7]) by smtp2.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00569; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (murr@localhost) by katie.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04057; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:56:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: katie.vnet.net: murr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:56:07 -0500 (EST) From: murr rhame To: Stephanie da Silva cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse In-Reply-To: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Stephanie da Silva wrote: > Because of the dozens of different varieties of mailing list managers, > I have my doubts that this will even work. But my question to you > is, what would you think of a third party forwarding administrative > requests to you/your listserver via their web interface? If he can accommodate the top half dozen or so most popular mailing list manager software packages, he should cover something on the order of 95% of all publicly accessible mailing lists. As for listing my own lists on such a service, I am absolutely NOT interested. The experience I've had with this type of service has been very poor. Forgeries and otherwise unwanted subscription requests outnumbered legitimate requests by a WIDE margin. I would NOT recommend such a service to another list manager. - murr - From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 16:48:56 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id QAA18965; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from firefly.cisco.com (firefly.cisco.com [171.69.63.22]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id QAA18958 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:41:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA23455; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:59:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812190059.QAA23455@firefly.cisco.com> To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, kenny@cisco.com Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:00:08 PST." <199812182000.MAA02926@shell7.ba.best.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:59:33 -0800 From: "Kenneth E. Paul" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ->"I am the manager of the ListsNet Directory, a web site ->(http://www.listsnet.com/) whose mission is to provide users with automatic ->subscription to the best mailing lists available on the Internet. I have ->read your list's description in the PAML (Publicly Available Mailing List ->Directory, http://www.neosoft.com/internet/paml), and I think it would make ->a great addition to our database (if it is indeed a public list)." -> I got basicly the same message from these folks about two weeks ago, expounding virtues of becoming one of thier "Channel Managers". As near as I could tell, a "Channel Manager" is just a buzzword they coined make it sound so much more important than "Mailing List Admin". I really didn't see the benefits to my list members either. Regards, Kenny Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kenneth E. Paul, Sr. Systems Administrator kenny@cisco.com Software Management & Delivery Systems 408-526-5210 Cisco Systems, Inc. 100 W. Tasman Dr. M-2, San Jose CA, 95134 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's a shame that our kids are dumb but our bombs are smart." -Danny Elfman From list-managers-owner Fri Dec 18 20:03:52 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id TAA21710; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gsp.org (rsk.itw.com [208.211.3.21]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id TAA21703 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rsk@localhost) by gsp.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA20386 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:10:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19981218221012.A20382@gsp.org> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:10:12 -0500 From: Rich Kulawiec To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse References: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> <199812182000.MAA02926@shell7.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812182000.MAA02926@shell7.ba.best.com>; from Cyndi Norman on Fri, Dec 18, 1998 at 12:00:08PM -0800 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > "I am the manager of the ListsNet Directory, a web site Ah, so they're spamming, too? As in carpet-bombing anyone whose list is mentioned at paml? Oh, yeah, this *really* makes me want to cooperate with them. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk@gsp.org From list-managers-owner Sat Dec 19 02:33:51 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id CAA28830; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 02:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mushi.colo.neosoft.com (mushi.colo.neosoft.com [206.109.6.82]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id CAA28823 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 02:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12227 invoked from network); 19 Dec 1998 10:37:47 -0000 Received: from bonkers.neosoft.com (HELO bonkers.taronga.com) (206.109.2.48) by mushi.colo.neosoft.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 1998 10:37:47 -0000 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA21517 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:37:46 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from arielle) From: Stephanie da Silva Message-Id: <199812191037.EAA21517@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:37:45 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk murr rhame: > If he can accommodate the top half dozen or so most popular mailing > list manager software packages, he should cover something on the order > of 95% of all publicly accessible mailing lists. I'm not sure this is true, at least in my experience. For example, right now the largest percentage of submission to the PAML are coming from Onelist lists. Onelist alone claims to have over 40,000 lists now. From list-managers-owner Sat Dec 19 07:20:16 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id HAA05940; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:14:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.tssi.com (gw.tssi.com [198.147.197.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id HAA05917 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from celery.tssi.com (nolan@celery.tssi.com [198.147.197.6]) by gw.tssi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00882; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:32:02 -0600 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23448; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:31:59 -0600 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199812191531.JAA23448@celery.tssi.com> Subject: Re: Clearinghouse, changing list engines To: arielle@Taronga.COM (Stephanie da Silva) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:31:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199812181701.LAA04887@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Stephanie da Silva" at Dec 18, 98 11:01:35 am Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Stephanie da Silva wrote: > Because of the dozens of different varieties of mailing list managers, > I have my doubts that this will even work. But my question to you > is, what would you think of a third party forwarding administrative > requests to you/your listserver via their web interface? Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I don't think getting on a mailing list should be _too_ easy. I've got a web archive with a 'how to subscribe' button on it, that gets you the subscripion help file. Even with all the hours I've spent trying to write readable instructions, I still get totally clueless folks who can't figure out that they need to use the -request address, even though it is specifically mentioned several times. I suspect that a reasonably competent programmer could write a parser for PAML in its current form that produces a web subscription form, though personally I would never attempt such a task. Stephanie, it's YOUR list, and I trust you to do what is right with it, both for the lists on it and for the net community. I do suggest, however, that if you do license out your list in this fashion, (and make SURE you get something in writing--among other things if this 'service' is charging money, you deserve a cut), you should make list managers aware of that, and/or give them the option to have their list excluded from the form. I doubt I would take such a step, or request my lists be dropped from PAML entirely, but others might. Changing the subject somewhat, I'm probably going to be switching list engines by spring, either by writing my own or hacking an existing package. Specifically, what I'm looking for is something that will allow folks to move between various list formats, e.g., regular, digest, news-only, and keyword based selection (only the posts that deal with those keywords--parsing posts to determine keywords is a somewhat different issue), allow subscribers to maintain their own list of posting addresses (home/work), go on vacation, etc. I don't know that any one package currently does everything I want, nor am I sure how the final product would fit into PAML. If I thought 100% of my target audience had web browsers, I'd probably just have a web-based subscription form with a bunch of radio buttons, but I think that 5-10% of them are webless or stuck behind e-mail only firewalls. Because I don't want to re-invent the wheel, especially things like bounce processing, I'm leaning towards an extension to an existing package as opposed to writing one from the ground up. Any suggestions? -- Mike Nolan From list-managers-owner Sat Dec 19 08:05:08 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id HAA06426; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from msa.attmil.ne.jp (ns.misawa.attmil.ne.jp [165.76.26.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id HAA06417 for ; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from msw0.attnet.or.jp (32.gate3.misawa.attmil.ne.jp [165.76.26.207]) by msa.attmil.ne.jp (8.8.8+Spin/3.6Wbeta7-CONS(12/07/98)) id BAA13823; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:03:38 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:03:44 +0900 From: Leif Gregory X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.18 Christmas Edition) S/N 90798968 Reply-To: Leif Gregory Organization: VBOK X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1744.981220@biogate.com> To: Rich Kulawiec Subject: Spammers - was Re: Mailing List Clearinghouse References: <19981218221012.A20382@gsp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Rich, I'm a subscriber to the NEW-LIST ML (a place to announce new mailing lists), and there are a few people on here that "spam" you with "I saw your ad on the NEW-LIST, come try this out!" etc. It never ceases to amaze me to what levels people will stoop to. A GOOD THING ABOUT A SHORT MEMORY; enjoy the same newspaper for a month ------------------------------ ------------------------------------- | Leif Gregory | Virtual Book Of Knowledge web site | | Editor, VBOK newsletter | | | Moderator, TBUDL | ICQ UIN: 216395 | ------------------------------ ------------------------------------- | VBOK is a free newsletter for newbies and the advanced user with | | articles, web site/software reviews, security, news and much more! | -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Saturday, December 19, 1998, at 12:10 PM you wrote: -- Begin Quote -- >> "I am the manager of the ListsNet Directory, a web site RK> Ah, so they're spamming, too? As in carpet-bombing anyone whose RK> list is mentioned at paml? RK> Oh, yeah, this *really* makes me want to cooperate with them. RK> ---Rsk RK> Rich Kulawiec RK> rsk@gsp.org -- End Quote -- From list-managers-owner Mon Dec 21 18:27:35 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id SAA22995; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from fre.fsu.umd.edu (fre.fsu.umd.edu [131.118.80.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id SAA22988 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from 209.201.108.65 by fre.fsu.umd.edu (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:29:57 EST5EDT4,M4.1.0,M10.5.0 Message-ID: <367EBE8B.79CF@fre.fsu.umd.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:33:01 +0000 From: Bill Southerly Reply-To: e2pysou@fre.fsu.umd.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Strategies for making the best use of lists Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I will be making a presentation regarding various strategies that can be used by subscribers to best deal with active lists (20-50 messages a day) and I am looking for ideas that other list managers may have on this topic. I will be discussing such things as: 1. the identification of appropriate software (suggestions are welcome) 2. techniques for controlling the list instead of allowing the list to control you (e.g., asking the questions you want answered vs lurking) 3. using the archives of a list and 4. the best use of the digest option Any suggestions including identification of additional lists to send this message would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill ********************************************************************** * TIPS IS PARTIALLY SUPPORTED BY A GRANT FROM THE SOCIETY FOR THE * * TEACHING OF PSYCHOLOGY, AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION - * * DIVISION 2 * * * * * * TIPS LISTOWNER - CONTACT DIRECTLY IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS * * BILL SOUTHERLY INTERNET: BSOUTHERLY@FRE.FSU.UMD.EDU * * DEPT. OF PSYCHOLOGY E2PYTIPS@FRE.FSU.UMD.EDU * * FROSTBURG STATE UNIVERSITY TIPSOWNER@FRE.FSU.UMD.EDU * * FROSTBURG, MARYLAND USA 21532 PHONE : (301) 687-4778 * * * ********************************************************************** From list-managers-owner Sun Dec 27 20:49:17 1998 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id UAA21686; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 20:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) id UAA21676 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 20:23:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from stl-17lssc (STL-17LSSC.ARMY.MIL [150.211.90.52]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id FAA10659 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 05:49:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812231349.FAA10659@honor.greatcircle.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 7:47:28 CST From: Rich Zellich To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Urban Legends Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Yes, I know this is off-topic to this list, but I figured that if _anyone_ would appreciate this one, it would be this group. Cheers and Merry [insert holiday of your choice here], Rich ------- I know this guy whose neighbor, a young man, was home recovering from having been served a rat in his bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. So anyway, one day he went to sleep and when he awoke he was in his bathtub and it was full of ice and he was sore all over. When he got out of the tub he realized that HIS KIDNEYS HAD BEEN STOLEN and he saw a note on his mirror that said "Call 911!" But he was afraid to use his phone because it was connected to his computer, and there was a virus on his computer that would destroy his hard drive if he opened an e-mail entitled "Join the crew!" He knew it wasn't a hoax because he himself was a computer programmer who was working on software to save us from Armageddon when the year 2000 rolls around. His program will prevent a global disaster in which all the computers get together and distribute the $600 Neiman-Marcus cookie recipe under the leadership of Bill Gates. (It's true-I read it all last week in a mass e-mail from BILL GATES HIMSELF, who was also promising me a free Disney World vacation and $5,000 if I would forward the e-mail to everyone I know.) The poor man then tried to call 911 from a pay phone to report his missing kidneys, but reaching into the coin-return slot he got jabbed with an HIV-infected needle around which was wrapped a note that said, "Welcome to the world of AIDS." Luckily he was only a few blocks from the hospital-the one where that little boy who is dying of cancer is, the one whose last wish is for everyone in the world to send him an e-mail and the American Cancer Society has agreed to pay him a nickel for every e-mail he receives. I sent him two e-mails and one of them was a bunch of x's and o's in the shape of an angel (if you get it and forward it to 20 people you will have good luck but 10 people you will only have OK luck and if you send it to less than 10 people you will have BAD LUCK FOR SEVEN YEARS). So anyway the poor guy tried to drive himself to the hospital, but on the way he noticed another car driving along without its lights on. To be helpful, he flashed his lights at him and was promptly shot as part of a gang initiation. And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages. -------