Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(July 1993)
 

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Subject: Re: How to recognize mail from an MLM
From: "F. Scott Ophof" <Ophof @ CS . UWindsor . Ca>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 04:51:22 -0400
To: <LSTSRV-L @ UGA . cc . uga . edu>
To: <List-Managers @ GreatCircle . COM>
To: <ListNix @ grasp1 . univ-lyon1 . fr>
To: <Unix-Listserv @ stormking . com>
To: <comp-mail-misc @ CS . UTexas . edu>
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 12 Jul 93 22:40:52 EDT

I received 3 copies of the body of this item.  The headers were
slightly different, and only in one case could I to some extent
identify the list-address using what I feel are normal/obvious
headers.
Here follow all three sets, though I've taken the liberty of
leaving in only those headers which are relevant to an item.
(I couldn't care less about "Received:", "X-...:", "Lines:",
"Phone:", etc.  Note that "Prece[n]dence:" doesn't tell me anything,
so I've instructed my mailreader to delete it also.
Note also that in some cases the address-casing in the "Cc:" line
is not the same as in the other(s).

| Message-Id: <199307130240.AA12321@mailman.nsf.gov>
| To: "F. Scott Ophof" <Ophof@CS.UWindsor.Ca>
| From: "Ravin Asar" <rasar@nsf.gov>
| Cc: LSTSRV-L@UGA.cc.uga.edu, comp-mail-misc@CS.UTexas.edu,
|         List-Managers@greatcircle.com, ListNix@grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr,
|         Unix-Listserv@stormking.com
| Subject: Re: How to recognize mail from an MLM
| In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:44:49 -0400.
|              <930712.164449-0400@MReXX-0.18>
| Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 22:40:52 EDT
| Sender: rasar@nsf.gov
| Reply-To: Come on MLMs - fill this in <rasar@nsf.gov>

| Message-Id: <199307130240.AA12321@mailman.nsf.gov>
| To: "F. Scott Ophof" <Ophof@CS.UWindsor.Ca>
| From: "Ravin Asar" <rasar@nsf.gov>
| Cc: LSTSRV-L@UGA.cc.uga.edu, comp-mail-misc@CS.UTexas.edu,
|         List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM, ListNix@Grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr,
|         Unix-Listserv@stormking.com
| Reply-To: Come on MLMs - fill this in <rasar@nsf.gov>
| Subject: Re: How to recognize mail from an MLM
| In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:44:49 -0400.
|              <930712.164449-0400@MReXX-0.18>
| Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 22:40:52 EDT
| Sender: List-Managers-Owner@GreatCircle.COM

| Message-Id: <199307130240.AA12321@mailman.nsf.gov>
| To: "F. Scott Ophof" <Ophof@CS.UWindsor.Ca>
| From: "Ravin Asar" <rasar@nsf.gov>
| Cc: LSTSRV-L@UGA.cc.uga.edu, comp-mail-misc@CS.UTexas.edu,
|         List-Managers@greatcircle.com, ListNix@Grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr,
|         Unix-Listserv@stormking.com
| Reply-To: Come on MLMs - fill this in <rasar@nsf.gov>
| Subject: Re: How to recognize mail from an MLM
| In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:44:49 -0400.
|              <930712.164449-0400@MReXX-0.18>
| Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 22:40:52 EDT
| Sender: rasar@nsf.gov

The ONLY item which has a header displaying anything which could
imply it's coming from a list is the second one, and even there it's
of the <listname-OWNER@..> variety.
All three I found in my mailbox, and none show the always clearly
recognizable "Revised LISTSERV" setup, so none were from LSTSRV-L or
comp.mail.misc.
The second one says <List-Managers-Owner@...> in the "Sender:" line,
so it's probably from <List-Managers@Greatcircle.com>.
So which of the others comes from ListNix, which from Unix-Listserv?
Or did you send me one directly, Ravin?  In other words, could I be
missing one?
And no, Ravin, none of these Unix MLMs seems to have the "Reply-To:"
set to the equiv. of "ignore poster, use list-addr-only".  I don't
even think it's possible in those MLMs.


On Mon, 12 Jul 93 22:40:52 EDT Ravin Asar said:
>The message I received from "F. Scott Ophof"  said:
>...
>> If addresses like <listname-REQUEST@..>, <OWNER-listname@..>, or
>> (gasp!) <listname-OWNER@..> (as a/the MLM at GreatCircle.com does)
>> are indeed implementation-dependant, then they too are effectively
>> not too useful as a general case.
>It occurred to me that none of the above should really be used as
>indicators of MLM-generated mail for the simple reason that they
>occur on the RHS of a field name.

Come again?  You mean the <submit-to-list-address> should be on the
LEFT-hand side, ie. it should be the field-NAME?  I misunderstand
you, right?


>> If there ain't none, then I'd like to propose that:
>>    Listname:  Name of List <listaddr@...>
>> be used for this purpose, and for no other purpose.  And that this
>> header and its purpose be registered, etc.
>Yes, that does seem sensible to have, especially considering that
>X-List* fields have been floating around for a while now, waiting to
>be "adopted".  A small semantic point here, though: just as one
>doesn't use a "Sendername:", "Subjectmatter:" or a "Fromname:" field,
>it would appear to be more appropriate and consistent (imho) to name
>the field "List:".

Agreed re semantics.  From the same point of view I'd almost suggest
to request that "Newsgroup:" be shortened to simply "News:";.  ;-)


>I wonder if the people who started using the X-List* fields (I'm a
>little short on history here) have anything in the works for
>formalizing a definitive field now.  The SRI-NIC was listed in
>RFC822 as the keeper of registered field names.  This might now be
>a function of rs.internic.net.

My experience with SRI-NIC (and now its successor) is less than
phenomenal, so anyone who knows the magic incantations needed to
extract info from that source I beg to do so and share that info
with us.


Regards.
$$\


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From: berg@pool.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (Stephen R. van den Berg)
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From: "F. Scott Ophof" <Ophof@CS.UWindsor.Ca>

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