Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(June 1996)

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Subject: ALL: and
From: cubabe @ netset . com (Dana Katherine Kressierer)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:34:16 -0400 (EDT)
To: postmaster @ compuserve . com, postmaster @ wow . com
Cc: list-managers @ GreatCircle . COM

Dear Compuserve and Wow:

Enclosed is a recent letter I sent to my mailing list of
over 1100 people regarding the technical ineptness of
both and  I'm no expert on
RFC822, but the way that you bounce messages is different
from all standard 'net conventions, and is slowly convincing
me to not allow your members to join my list (an action already
taken by some other list owners).

Your refusal to conform to standards is not helpful to your
members.  As such, I will continue to recommend that my
members drop you as their ISP, and find a local ISP that
will better meet their needs.


Dana K. Kressierer


Dear AIML Listmembers:

This is a notice to our members that if you receive a bounced
message from or you should just ignore it.
You do not need to resend your message to the list.

Furthermore, if you are a or member and
you suddenly stop receiving mail, it's because your mail is
bouncing and creating problems for the list.  When your mail
bounces we turn off your mail settings so that we don't have
to deal with your bounced mail anymore.  To turn your mail
back on please refer to your welcome message.

Compuserve, which owns and runs the WOW service, uses a really
bad mail program which does not conform to internet standards ITO
bounced mail. As such, their mail often bounces to inappropriate places
(e.g., to list members) rather than bouncing where it should (e.g.,
the list owners).

This problem is getting bad.  I'm not yet to the point of
deleting all compuserve and wow users, but if things get
much worse we may have to do that.  It's nothing personal,
but more and more lists are being forced to not allow compuserve
and wow members to join only because these services are too
ignorant or simply do not care enough about you, or us, to
conform to simple internet standards for bounced mail (among
other things).

For those of you using compuserve and wow, I strongly suggest
that you complain to your service provider (
or and let them know that your membership
on this and other lists is in jeopardy because they cannot be bothered to
follow simple 'net conventions.  Too, complain about their
unreasonable quotas on the amount of mail you are allowed to
receive.  If they didn't have such arbitrary message
limits to begin with, most mail wouldn't bounce (this goes for
AOL as well).

Sorry for the rant, but I get really annoyed having to put up
with and and their inexcusable technical
problems.  I'm not upset at any of our members who use these
services, but I would like to suggest that you can find much
less expensive, no quota, unlimited 'net access through a local
ISP rather than any of the big companies.  For a listing of
local ISP's near you, head to:
Prices usually run around $20/month for *unlimited* email,
www, telnet, irc, etc.  If you cannot find a local ISP at
that location, just call your nearest computer store and they
will be able to put you in touch with such a service.



Dana Katherine Kressierer,
Co-Manager, Adoptees' Internet Mailing List
Dana's URL:

I'm so glad that you came tonight.  I sometimes worry that
no one will show up, and without you, there would be little
point in my being here. - Jane Wagner

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