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Subject: Re: fresh horror from AOL
From: "Dr. Manion" <CEO @ Citadel . Net>
Organization: Execu/Quest Marketing Consultants
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:12:45 +0000
To: list-managers @ greatcircle . com
Comments: Authenticated sender is <citadel@citadel.net>
Reply-to: CEO @ Citadel . Net

On 30 Jan 97 ,Brad Knowles insightfully wrote:

> At 12:47 PM -0500 1/23/1997, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> 
> >And the point is, Anne, that AOL has behaved like an unruly leech on the
> >back on the Internet community since the day it was plugged in.  AOL does
> >not give, it only takes.
> 
 
>  AOL does give back to the 'net, and in fact has a program *named*
> "Give Back to the 'Net", and anyone (whether they work for AOL or
> not) can give recommendations to this program.

Again, to the benefit of AOL rather than to the people. Brad, you 
seem to waste a lot of resources telling us how grateful we should  
all be because AOL exists. This is simply the illusion of gradeaur on 
your part and on AOL's part. 

This "give back" is great to help AOL but exactly how does it help 
anyone else? Your "give back" program is more "help me because I 
don't know what I'm doing."

>  In fact, there have
> been times when we've tried to give large sums of money to the
> authors of certain pieces of software, when it turned out that those
> authors didn't want money, but instead wanted something we weren't in
> a position to provide. 

Is this meant to impress  us? That they were willing to give money? 
Again, this is something that benefits AOL, doesn't benefit the Net.

> Trust me, we give back to the 'net *big
> time*, every single day.

Sorry, I haven't seen any of this. I've been on the Internet for more 
than two years. I have yet to see anything positive coming from AOL.
Besides offering of money to individuals for code or software that 
would benefit AOL, you seem to be at a loss to give any examples 
which do not directly benefit AOL.

>  I'm sorry guy, if you want to rant and rave, go to alt.aol-sucks.
> Let's keep the conversations on this list to *useful* ones.

Just because *you* don't believe the conversation is "useful" 
doesn't mean that no one else does, either. Apparently there are a 
few who do.  The email you have answered in response to AOL was not 
meant as a "bashing" as you say. It was a statement of fact, no 
matter how hard you try to twist the words.

As listowners we are trying to find a way to deal with AOL and the 
problems it causes. Their tying up of resources due to bounced 
messages, AOL allowing their subscribers to arbitrarily turn off 
email, AOL not giving their subscribers some basics about the 
Internet and how to subscribe and unsubscribe, AOL not responding to 
messages from Net users about spams sent by AOL and the list goes on 
and on.

This list is not about AOL bashing. But, these are problems many of 
us are having and we must deal with. I'm sorry if AOL doesn't benefit 
from this discussion. From your email, I gather that AOL intends to 
remain part of the problem rather than being part of the solution.

Leonard

>
> 
> 


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From: "Dr. Manion" <CEO@Citadel.Net>
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From: "William P. Barr" <wbarr@leland.Stanford.EDU>
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