Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(May 2001)

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Subject: Re: Spam Filters vs. Mailing Lists
From: Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui @ plaidworks . com>
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 21:24:20 -0700
To: "David W. Tamkin" <dattier @ ripco . com>
Cc: Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui @ plaidworks . com>, list-managers @ GreatCircle . COM (list-managers)
In-reply-to: <>

On Friday, May 18, 2001, at 03:20 PM, David W. Tamkin wrote:

> Having never run a list with an essential business purpose, I've found 
> that
> writing to adminstrators was counterproductive.

Essential business is in the eye of the beholder. And even then, it's 
still counterproductive...

(if you want to have a fun discussion about "essential business", get 
into a discussion of how to subset USENET so that you're only 
distributing "business" newsgroups -- when you run USENET for a company 
involved in electronic music, video, computer games... There's a lot to 
life beyond comp.sys.mac, but management doesn't always realize that 
until you start asking...

> On a re-
> tail provider, the postmaster was willing to listen only to paying 
> customers,
> leading to Chuq's policy:

if then (grin)

> (In some
> cases I found the old site's behavior or policy so unacceptable that I 
> banned
> the site from the list, telling all future applicants from it that they 
> had
> to get an address elsewhere to join and any other current subscribers 
> on it

I've banned a few sites over time; almost always because their software 
is braindamaged to the point of being dangerous to my lists -- there are 
some sites out there that either break and start feeding stuff back at 
the list, or wh's idea of a bounce is to simply redirect messages back 
at the list. When I find those, they go away.

I think there are only two sites I've banned for administrative 
malfeasance -- one is, and the other is one that's no longer 
with us. juno did (perhaps, does) no checking of new accounts, so a user 
could create an infinite number of accounts to circumvent a ban. When 
one finally did, and juno's admins were MIA, I banned the site (FWIW, 
juno's admins answered my complains six weeks later with an apology, but 
refused to take responsibility, change their policies, or actually do 
anything. They stayed banned...). The other, when I had problem with one 
of their users, was actually more abusive than the original troublemaker 
was. That made it easy...

> I wouldn't be surprised if many articles from mailing lists are 
> rejected be-
> cause the listserver's sending IP address in the SMTP transaction 
> doesn't
> match the author's domain in the RFC822 From: line and therefore is 
> assumed
> to be relayed spam.  That's an absolutely ridiculous way to run a site, 
> but
> there's no telling what's out there.

but it's a good reminder to sweat the details, and not give them any 
reason to reject stuff. You never know what stupid things people will 
come up with, so try to avoid doing stupid things... (grin)

Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <>
[<> = <> = <>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

When an agnostic dies, does he go to the "great perhaps"?

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