On Fri, 05 Jul 2002 09:11:52 -0700
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> wrote:
> I think you both did, and didn't. I *have* worked to make my stuff as
> easy to use as possible. This is because I want my lists to be
> inclusive, not exclusive.
Precisely. Approachability and barriers to entry are a significant
concern. Ideally joining, leaving, and performing basic operations on a
list (eg selecting single message, digest, etc) should be so obvious and
simple that a proverbial 95 year old grandmother should be able to
easily figure out and do everything she wants to without ever feeling
confused or asking a question.
We are nowhere even close to meeting that criteria. Some list servers
go better than others, but the gap remains huge.
> I don't see "use of the list" as a hoop someone has to jump through
> before being "allowed" to participate (the classic example of these
> todays are the Wikis.. Nice try, flawed design).
WikiwWiki's combine three basic concepts: WikiMarkup as a simplified
form of HTML, WikiLinking for auto A-REF generation from BunpyCase words
and InterWiki links, and the EditThis link. That's two more new things
than any new system should have for a reasonable and approachable
learning curve, especially since WikiWikis are unusuable until you have
grokked all three -- and that doesn't even count having to grok the
mental model of how the ad-hoc hypertextual mesh of a WikiWiki works and
is productive (typically the biggest and toughest mental bullet for
people to swallow)
None of which means that WikiWikis are inherently flawed as a technology
or tool for use by the great unwashed and the 95yr old grandmother. Its
just their UI that is so broken. In many ways WikiWikis are in the same
position as list servers of 10 years ago: still in love with their own
fiddliness and cultivating and grooming their cognoscenti. I have some
ideas as to how to improve this, mostly centered on knocking out having
to grok hypertext, but I've yet to roll them out to see how they work in
reality.
Aside: Zope's ZWiki makes an interesting ad hoc extension of mailing
lists. You can subscribe to a ZWiki page, whereupon you will receive,
via email, copies of all updates and changes to that page. Any replies
you make to those messages are auto-appended to the WikiPage, thus
causing a new message to be sent out to all the subscribers with the
changes.
> I don't want to end up running a bunch of virtual moose lodges full of
> 80 year old codgers whining about how the young whippersnappers don't
> understand how it used to be...)
The normal term for this problem in game design (where it occurs
commonly), is "elder games". Once your group stratifies out entrenched
experts you're likely in trouble -- what game do they play now, with
what, and whom?
> You also have to look at WHAT you're teaching. The easier you make the
> software, the less time you spend teaching people how to geek that
> software, and the more time you can spend on other issues, especially
> subjective things like reply formatting and editing issues. If you're
> always teaching users to jump through hoops, are they going to be
> receptive to other comments, or do you start sounding like a nag? And
> do you have time to do it?
<nod>
If you're going to have a learning curve, minimise it to only those
things you actually need and which contribute to your purpose. Adding
on other bits just creates artificial and unnecessary barriers.
--
J C Lawrence
---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
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