On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Basically, they won't archive any list that doesn't want to be
>> archived, but if the list is open for subscription, the list
>> owner has to either notice the subscription message or opt out.
> That makes sense. Either the list owner pays attention to who
> subscribes or doesn't. As a list member, I know that anyone or
> anything can be lurking on most lists. I really don't see a
> problem here.
I disagree. Most list-owners by default doesn't pay attention to
who subscribes because the default setting of the
"notify-list-owner of subscriptions-and-unsubscriptions" setting
is set to no; that includes Mailman and many other listservers.
So it takes an active effort, choice and knowledge about the
listserver on the list-owner's part just to be able to receive
the notifications. 95 % of list-owners just go with the default
settings when they create a list. Because of the default
settings, paying attention to subscriptions is "going against
the grain", and since only a small minority will go against the
grain, the end result is a license to hijack lists.
>> Hm. Yeah, I think Lars hasn't thought hard enough about this.
>> He's a smart guy, though, and quite willing to work with
>> people, so maybe someone here who runs a list with public
>> subscription but that they don't consider public should try to
>> explain their point of view.
> And maybe we should take this discussion to gmane.discuss.
Forwarding is OK with me.
>> (I consider all lists that I run with public subscription to be
>> public lists exactly as described on that page, so I'm not of
>> any help there.)
> Me, too.
Well, I don't. Two of my lists have voted against public archives
even though the subscription mode for both lists is open. Concern
about spam-harvesting of addresses is one concern, but not the only
one. The list members feel that they are a community, and that
access to the community should at least require the minimum effort
of being a member of the community (even if a passive/lurking one).
Also: Why should a list-owner have to manually approve every
subscription just to avoid public archiving?
Incidentally, there is no such thing as a "public subscription",
unless you regularly or automatically post a log of all your
subscriptions to a public web page or newsgroup.