At 10:57 PM -0500 3/6/03, JC Dill is rumored to have typed:
> This is venturing off from the topic of this list (managing mailing
> lists) into the topic of fighting spam.
No, it isn't. You claim that U.S. civil law will help you keep spam off
your mailing list, while it's obvious to all but the most obtuse that it
won't. Depend on the law, you lose. Like it or not, you're stuck with
technological methods (i.e. moderation of newbies, IP blocks, scanners, etc.)
if you plan on keeping spam off your mailing list. (At no point did I waste
any time discussing how to "stop" spam - I only disputed your suggestion that
the hypothetical spammer was "tracable.")
> You HAVE
> the spammer, it's the person who gets email at that mail address, who
> confirmed the subscription request to the list.
<snip>
> > FOLLOW THE MONEY. You can sue the host, and force the host to either
> > accept responsibility for sending the spam, or pass the buck and
> > disclose who is behind the account.
(*sigh*) Big deal. Since you didn't bother checking the domain I used as
an example (I realise primary research might get in the way of your
arguments), it is hosted in China (China Netcom Corp.) with phony info in the
srsplus.com whois. Assuming someone at that domain (let's even assume they
live right down the block from you) SSH'd into their leased box overseas and
subscribed/confirmed/spammed directly from there instead of hacking some
other box in Taiwan, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hades of finding
out who they are, because suing a host in China for information is useless,
"confirmation loop" or no.
You "HAVE" nothing, except perhaps an IP. If you chose to block the
210.51.0.0/16 block, that might stop that one spammer...but again, that
solution's technological, not legal.
> This isn't a perfect system, but it's a workable one.
It is NOT workable, and if you think it is, you are deluding yourself.
These aren't the days when Sanford Wallace was spamming openly, daring people
to stop him...these guys are buried deeper into the darkness than ever, just
like the cockroaches they are, because they admit what they do is a bane on
the Internet's existance, and they saw how well things worked for Sanford
Wallice when he was spamming openly, and people took him up on his dare. If
you really believe you can track down any but the dumbest spammers, I have a
few bridges I'd like to sell you.
> In the specific case of spam sent to mailing lists: If you want to be
> able to sue someone who intentionally subscribes to and then spams your
> list,
....make sure the spammer is too stupid to set himself up in foreign
countries WHERE U.S. LAW DOESN'T APPLY, and the host companies will laugh off
your nusance suits. The domain that _started_ this thread is based in the
Netherlands (if you believe the DomainBank.com whois info); you might have a
little more luck there than China, but I'd cheerfully wager against anyone
suing that outfit, too. Heck, with that clown connecting to Hotmail through
wanadoo.nl aDSL pool IPs, you'd know roughly where he is, and STILL you
wouldn't stand much of a chance getting any kind of civil action anywhere.
You are right about one thing, though - I am through wasting time on this.
Charlie Summers
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