From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 1 00:22:30 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA24096; Thu, 1 Jul 93 00:22:30 GMT Received: from onion.rain.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA24089; Wed, 30 Jun 93 17:22:10 PDT Received: by onion.rain.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.12) id ; Wed, 30 Jun 93 17:24 PDT Message-Id: To: Micah Anderson Cc: Majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Administrative unsubscribes (is there a better way?) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Jun 93 23:49:49 PDT." <9306300649.AA23473@mead.u.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 17:24:09 -0700 From: Jeff Beadles Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >UNSUBSCRIBE passwd listname username >UNSUBSCRIBE listname passwd username >UNSUBSCRIBE listname username passwd > >the works... idears? Or can this be implemented somehow? Do you mean; approve "LIST_PASSWORD" unsubscribe "LIST" "ADDRESS" -Jeff -- Jeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 1 00:47:19 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA24327; Thu, 1 Jul 93 00:47:19 GMT Received: from ub-gate.UB.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA24318; Wed, 30 Jun 93 17:47:08 PDT Received: from bolis.UUCP by ub-gate.UB.com (4.1/SMI-4.1[UB-1.8]) id AA26776; Wed, 30 Jun 93 17:49:45 PDT Received: by hock.bolis.sf-bay.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0oB5jZ-00030PC; Wed, 30 Jun 93 17:14 GMT Message-Id: From: Alan Millar Subject: Re: Administrative unsubscribes (is there a better way?) To: micah@u.washington.edu, Majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:14:11 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <9306301616.AA22368@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> from "Brent Chapman" at Jun 30, 93 09:16:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 999 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > # then of course majordomo mails me back asking for approval with the passwd, > # then I have to mail back with the info to get the person off. Is there > # anyway to mail it all in one package? I hate to be the "rtfm" rain on the parade, BUT... This is in the documentation. HOWEVER: If you only retrieved the majordomo.tar file and did not retrieve the majordomo.paper.ps file, you don't have everything you want. This .ps file is what really sold me on Majordomo, because it explains very clearly what majordomo does and how it works. Folks, if you haven't printed out the .ps file, you're missing out on some pretty professional documentation. Nice job, Brent! - Alan ---- ,,,, Alan Millar amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.org __oo \ System Administrator =___/ From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 1 01:18:37 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA24597; Thu, 1 Jul 93 01:18:37 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA24588; Wed, 30 Jun 93 18:18:20 PDT Message-Id: <9307010118.AA24588@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: Alan Millar Cc: micah@u.washington.edu, Majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Administrative unsubscribes (is there a better way?) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:14:11 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 18:18:18 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # > # then of course majordomo mails me back asking for approval with the passwd, # > # then I have to mail back with the info to get the person off. Is there # > # anyway to mail it all in one package? # # I hate to be the "rtfm" rain on the parade, BUT... This is in # the documentation. # # HOWEVER: If you only retrieved the majordomo.tar file and did not # retrieve the majordomo.paper.ps file, you don't have everything # you want. This .ps file is what really sold me on Majordomo, # because it explains very clearly what majordomo does and how # it works. # # Folks, if you haven't printed out the .ps file, you're missing out # on some pretty professional documentation. Nice job, Brent! Thanks! Beware that some of the stuff in the paper is out of date. It was written as a paper for last year's LISA conference, and hasn't been updated since as Majordomo has expanded and changed. What I'd recommend to folks is that they read the paper first, to get the background and learn the general nature of things, then look at the various README files to learn the current details. Unfortunately, the documentation is currently Majordomo's biggest weakness. For that, everyone using Majordomo has my sincere apologies; I'll fix it when I can. -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 1 21:18:52 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA27202; Thu, 1 Jul 93 21:18:52 GMT Received: from isig.mit.edu (POSSE.MIT.EDU) by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA27195; Thu, 1 Jul 93 14:18:45 PDT Received: by isig.mit.edu (5.57/Ultrix4.2-A) id AA04073; Thu, 1 Jul 93 17:21:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 17:21:23 -0400 From: mlbarrow@POSSE.MIT.EDU (Michael L Barrow) Message-Id: <9307012121.AA04073@isig.mit.edu> To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Using Bounce with Majordomo Reply-To: mlbarrow@mit.edu X-Full-Name: Michael L Barrow X-Address: 77 Massachusetts Ave, 11-221 X-Address: Cambridge, MA 02139 X-Phone: 617-253-7664 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Pardon my stupidity, but can anyone explain briefly how to use the auto bounce thingy with majordomo? I have read everything that there is to read & I don't know what to do. Thanks in advance, mlb From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 1 23:27:53 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA27569; Thu, 1 Jul 93 23:27:53 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA27561; Thu, 1 Jul 93 16:27:40 PDT Message-Id: <9307012327.AA27561@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: mlbarrow@mit.edu Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Using Bounce with Majordomo In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 1 Jul 93 17:21:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 93 16:27:39 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # # Pardon my stupidity, but can anyone explain briefly how to use the auto # bounce thingy with majordomo? I have read everything that there is to # read & I don't know what to do. # # Thanks in advance, # mlb It's not automatic; it's a perl script that a list owner can run by hand to move a problem address from their list to the "bounces" list. A related program, "bounce-remind", should be run from cron by "nobody" to send a message to the "bounces" list each night, telling folks who are on that list why they're there, and how to get off of it and back on their regular lists. Read the comments at the start of "bounce" for more information. -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 2 22:07:57 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00820; Fri, 2 Jul 93 22:07:57 GMT Received: from Sun.COM by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00813; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:07:51 PDT Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag-bb.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10950; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:10:32 PDT Received: from terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01090; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:10:37 PDT Received: by terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA04080; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:09:59 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:09:59 PDT From: Mary.Morris@Eng.Sun.COM (Mary Morris) Message-Id: <9307022209.AA04080@terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM> To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Majordomo Setup Problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1042 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi I am trying to setup majordomo on a Solaris 2.1 system. I think that I have all of the permissions correct, but I get the following bounce. Can someone tell me what insecure usage means? ----- Begin Included Message ----- From Mailer-Daemon Fri Jul 2 15:01:18 1993 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:01:18 PDT From: Mailer-Daemon (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2 To: owner-majordomo ----- Transcript of session follows ----- /export/home/terimaul/majordomo/wrapper: error: insecure usage 554 "|/export/home/terimaul/majordomo/wrapper /export/home/terimaul/majordomo/majordomo"... unknown mailer error 2 ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: by terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA04047; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:01:18 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:01:18 PDT From: marym (Mary Morris) Message-Id: <9307022201.AA04047@terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM> Errors-To: |/home/marym/Postmaster/PP_sort To: Majordomo X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 0 ----- End Included Message ----- From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 2 22:21:26 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00876; Fri, 2 Jul 93 22:21:26 GMT Received: from Sun.COM by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00869; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:21:19 PDT Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag-bb.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11796; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:24:01 PDT Received: from terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01240; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:24:06 PDT Received: by terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA04149; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:23:28 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:23:28 PDT From: Mary.Morris@Eng.Sun.COM (Mary Morris) Message-Id: <9307022223.AA04149@terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM> To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Majordomo Setup Problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1886 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- From Mailer-Daemon Fri Jul 2 15:22:27 1993 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:22:27 PDT From: Mailer-Daemon (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: marym ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 Majordomo-User... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: by terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA04139; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:22:27 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:22:27 PDT From: marym (Mary Morris) Message-Id: <9307022222.AA04139@terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM> Errors-To: |/home/marym/Postmaster/PP_sort To: Majordomo-User Subject: Majordomo Setup Problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 1158 Following up on my own post: I am getting an unsafe usage. I think that my permissions are correct. Since this is Solaris I went with posix instead of SunOS setup instructions. I have since tried the SunOS instructions also without success. Perms were set to 6775, and I have tried both root and daemon. ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From Mailer-Daemon Fri Jul 2 15:20:47 1993 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:20:47 PDT From: Mailer-Daemon (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2 To: owner-majordomo ----- Transcript of session follows ----- /export/home/terimaul/majordomo/wrapper: error: insecure usage 554 "|/export/home/terimaul/majordomo/wrapper /export/home/terimaul/majordomo/majordomo"... unknown mailer error 2 ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: by terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA04127; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:20:47 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:20:47 PDT From: marym (Mary Morris) Message-Id: <9307022220.AA04127@terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM> Errors-To: |/home/marym/Postmaster/PP_sort To: Majordomo X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 0 ----- End Included Message ----- ----- End Included Message ----- From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 2 22:31:14 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00922; Fri, 2 Jul 93 22:31:14 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00914; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:30:42 PDT Message-Id: <9307022230.AA00914@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: Mary.Morris@Eng.Sun.COM (Mary Morris) Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Majordomo Setup Problem In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:09:59 PDT Date: Fri, 02 Jul 93 15:30:41 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # Hi # # I am trying to setup majordomo on a Solaris 2.1 system. # I think that I have all of the permissions correct, but I get # the following bounce. Can someone tell me what insecure usage # means? # # # ----- Begin Included Message ----- # # >From Mailer-Daemon Fri Jul 2 15:01:18 1993 # Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:01:18 PDT # From: Mailer-Daemon (Mail Delivery Subsystem) # Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2 # To: owner-majordomo # # ----- Transcript of session follows ----- # /export/home/terimaul/majordomo/wrapper: error: insecure usage # 554 "|/export/home/terimaul/majordomo/wrapper /export/home/terimaul/majordomo/majordomo"... unknown mailer error 2 # # ----- Unsent message follows ----- # Return-Path: # Received: by terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) # id AA04047; Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:01:18 PDT # Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 15:01:18 PDT # From: marym (Mary Morris) # Message-Id: <9307022201.AA04047@terimaul.Eng.Sun.COM> # Errors-To: |/home/marym/Postmaster/PP_sort # To: Majordomo # X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII # content-length: 0 # # # ----- End Included Message ----- # You must specify the program argument to "wrapper" WITHOUT a full path. "wrapper" looks in one and only one directory (defined at compile time) for the programs it will run, for security reasons (to keep somebody from using "wrapper" to run some other random program). -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Mon Jul 5 15:35:27 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA08350; Mon, 5 Jul 93 15:35:27 GMT Received: from dcs.ed.ac.uk (stroma.dcs.ed.ac.uk) by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA08343; Mon, 5 Jul 93 08:35:18 PDT Received: from vacsay.dcs.ed.ac.uk by dcs.ed.ac.uk id aa08985; 5 Jul 93 16:34 BST Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 16:34:22 BST Message-Id: <13129.9307051534@vacsay.dcs.ed.ac.uk> From: "Morna.Findlay" Subject: alternative majordomo.cf file To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I'm trying to put version 1.46 in just now and want to test it properly before replacing the old version. For this I'd like to use a different majordomo.cf file. According to the README I can use the envariable MAJORDOMO_CF. Where should I set this up? Thanks M From Majordomo-Users-Owner Tue Jul 6 03:32:04 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA09519; Tue, 6 Jul 93 03:32:04 GMT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA09512; Mon, 5 Jul 93 20:31:52 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA08084; Mon, 5 Jul 93 20:34:37 -0700 Received: from plts.org by Warren.MENTORG.COM with UUCP id AA09076 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com); Mon, 5 Jul 1993 23:34:34 -0400 Received: by plts.org id AA15784 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com); Mon, 5 Jul 1993 23:22:54 -0400 From: Tom Limoncelli Message-Id: <199307060322.AA15784@plts.org> Subject: File capability for Majordomo? To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 23:22:53 EDT Caution: Wet floor Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk First, I just want to say "good show!" to Brent for Majordomo! I read the paper when it was first released but said, "Oh, I'll just keep with the -request system, it's not like it really takes up too much of my time" but recently I got a flood of requests and I realized that anything that takes up ANY of my time is worth automating (I'm one of the millions of over-worked sysadmins of the world). (Besides, at Usenix last week Elizabeth Zwicky said it was A Good Thing so I just *had* to try it). So, I made time to install Majordomo. It was so easy to install, I set it up at work (warren.mentorg.com) as well as on my home machine (plts.org)! Brent, you should put more emphasis on ease of installation when you talk about it. Anyway... Bitnet listserv can do one thing that Majordomo can't do. Serve files. It is common for people to see the maintainer of a mailing list post something like, "The new FAQ posting is available. To get it, just send the 'getfile list-faq text' command to the listserv." [Note horrid "list-faq text" two-part IBM-style file name.] Well, I've added "sendme" capability to my majordomo. Basically, you add a "$filedir = /foo/bar/Files" to your majordomo.cf file and put the files in $filedir. (The individual file names have to be lower-case). I use the &valid_list() function to see if the file exists, but I pass it $filedir instead of $listdir. I don't have a general "show me an index" function, but I have the "help" message mention that "sendme index" will retrieve a table-of-contents file. (which I manually construct) Often I don't put the actual file into $filedir, but instead I put a symbolic link. That way the owner of the file edit it at any time. Users of majordomo will never know the difference. As I'm posting this, I just realized that this could become a generalized archiving system with some additional support. When an archive grows to a certain size or age, the file could be moved into this directory as "archive.$listname.$date" and a description could be appended to the "index" file. Well, it's just a thought. (I guess .private lists would need some kind of security mechanism) Here's the code to add the "sendme" command. Yes, I've overloaded the token "sendme" yet again (nntp, delayed-netnews, and now Majordomo). Brent can rename the command if he feels like it when/if he integrates this code into the next rev. of majordomo. _Tom Limoncelli_ (gee, the do_sendme() code is amazingly similar to the do_info() code) ----------------------------------- cut here ----------------------------------- *** majordomo.orig Mon Jul 5 22:26:26 1993 --- majordomo Mon Jul 5 22:53:33 1993 *************** *** 108,113 **** --- 108,114 ---- elsif ($cmd eq "who") { &do_who(@parts); } elsif ($cmd eq "info") { &do_info(@parts); } elsif ($cmd eq "newinfo") { &do_newinfo(@parts); } + elsif ($cmd eq "sendme") { &do_sendme(@parts); } elsif ($cmd eq "lists") { &do_lists(@parts); } elsif ($cmd eq "help") { &do_help(@parts); } else { *************** *** 471,476 **** --- 472,502 ---- &log("lists"); } + sub do_sendme { + # Make sure we've got the arguments we need + (local($file) = shift) || &squawk("sendme: which file?"); + # Check that the file is OK + local($clean_file) = &valid_list($filedir, $file); + if ($clean_file ne "") { + # The file is OK, so give the file, or a message that none is available + if (&lopen(FILE, "", "$filedir/$clean_file")) { + print REPLY "------------------------------ file start ------------------------------\n"; + while () { + print REPLY $_; + } + print REPLY "------------------------------ file end ------------------------------\n"; + print REPLY "\n[Last updated ", &chop_nl(&ctime((stat(FILE))[9])), + "]\n"; + &lclose(FILE); + } else { + print REPLY "#### Can not fine file $clean_file.\n"; + } + } else { + &squawk("sendme: unknown file '$file'."); + } + &log("info $clean_file"); + } + sub do_help { print REPLY <<"EOM"; This is Brent Chapman's "Majordomo" mailing list manager, $majordomo_version. *************** *** 494,499 **** --- 520,529 ---- lists Show the lists served by this Majordomo server. + + sendme + Send's the file named to you via email. "sendme index" + for a list of all files available. help Retrieve this message. ----------------------------------- cut here ----------------------------------- -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.org (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) Moderator of the Drew University Alumni/ae and ne-social-motss mailing lists. From Majordomo-Users-Owner Tue Jul 6 05:24:18 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA09776; Tue, 6 Jul 93 05:24:18 GMT Received: from dptspd.sat.datapoint.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA09766; Mon, 5 Jul 93 22:24:08 PDT Received: from endicor.com by dptspd.sat.datapoint.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0oD5dA-0001KhC; Tue, 6 Jul 93 00:31 CDT Received: by fezzik.endicor.com (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4.1) id AA12732; Tue, 6 Jul 1993 00:21:53 -0500 From: Ty Sarna Message-Id: <199307060521.AA12732@fezzik.endicor.com> Subject: Re: File capability for Majordomo? To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 00:21:50 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199307060322.AA15784@plts.org> from "Tom Limoncelli" at Jul 5, 93 11:22:53 pm Organization: Endicor Technologies, Inc., San Antonio, Texas X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2346 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Tom Limoncelli wrote: > > Well, I've added "sendme" capability to my majordomo. Basically, you Ah! I was just about to do this! Thanks for saving me the effort! > As I'm posting this, I just realized that this could become a > generalized archiving system with some additional support. When > an archive grows to a certain size or age, the file could be moved > into this directory as "archive.$listname.$date" and a description > could be appended to the "index" file. Well, it's just a thought. > (I guess .private lists would need some kind of security mechanism) I've done just this. I have a program called mlarchive. It manages archives in a directory specified by $arcdir in majordomo.cf. For each list there are three files: listname, which contains the current archive issue, listname.issue, which specifies the issue number currently being archived (defaults to 1 if missing, and will be created automaticly as 2 when the issue closes), and listname.ctl, which looks like: $arcsize = 524288; # issue size (a minimum, not a maximum) $arcowner = "tsarna"; # who to notify when issues close $arcdest = "/home/ftp/pub/archive"; # where to put closed issues $arcext = ".lha"; # compressor extension $arccmd = "/usr/local/bin/lha a %A %F >/dev/null"; # compressor command For more common usage, the latter two could be: $arcext = ".Z"; $arccmd = "compress %F >/dev/null"; or: $arcext = ".gz"; $arccmd = "gzip %F >/dev/null"; Here's how I use mlarchive in my aliases file: test-outgoing: :include:/home/listserv/lists/test, "|/home/listserv/majordomo/wrapper mlarchive test" I could easily clean up the code and whip up a distribution if folks are interested. This along with Tom's sendme would be a great addition to Majordomo, especially for people managing lists where many subscribers don't have access to FTP. I'd like to add one more .ctl option, a command to be run when an issue closes. This would provide the neccesary hook for updating the index file automaticly. > [sendme code deleted] Hmmm, it just sends it as straight text, doesn't it? I'd like to be able to send binary files, with uuencoding & splitting (or even better, optionally send it as MIME). -- Ty Sarna "Sure I'm shallow and you're deep, but aren't tsarna@endicor.com those just different ends of the same pool?" From Majordomo-Users-Owner Tue Jul 6 02:46:52 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10393; Tue, 6 Jul 93 08:31:22 GMT Received: from ub-gate.UB.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10384; Tue, 6 Jul 93 01:31:14 PDT Received: from bolis.UUCP by ub-gate.UB.com (4.1/SMI-4.1[UB-1.8]) id AA00448; Tue, 6 Jul 93 01:33:59 PDT Received: by hock.bolis.sf-bay.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0oD7pw-0002whC; Tue, 6 Jul 93 00:53 PDT Message-Id: From: Alan Millar Subject: Re: File capability for Majordomo? To: tsarna@endicor.com (Ty Sarna) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 00:53:10 -0800 (PDT) Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199307060521.AA12732@fezzik.endicor.com> from "Ty Sarna" at Jul 6, 93 00:21:50 am Reply-To: Alan Millar X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 933 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Verily didst Ty Sarna rise up and spake thus: > Hmmm, it just sends it as straight text, doesn't it? I'd like to be able > to send binary files, with uuencoding & splitting (or even better, > optionally send it as MIME). I have been looking at the FTPMAIL package which has some excellent options for sending files with options for uuencoding and splitting. It will also give you your choice of encoding, including mime which looks very nice. src.doc.ic.ac.uk:packages/ftpmail/ftpmail-1.12.tar.z or grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr:pub/unix/mail/tools/ftpmail/ftpmail-1.12.tar.z. It is definitely worth taking a look at. - Alan ---- ,,,, Alan Millar amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.org __oo \ System Administrator =___/ If only we were all weiner dogs, our problems would be solved! -Brave Little Toaster From Majordomo-Users-Owner Tue Jul 6 12:50:17 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10825; Tue, 6 Jul 93 12:50:17 GMT Received: from eng.futurenet.com (port11.columbus.pub-ip.psi.net) by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10818; Tue, 6 Jul 93 05:50:09 PDT Subject: MajorDomo for SCO Machines? To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 08:52:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven E Frazier Reply-To: Steven E Frazier X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 92 Message-Id: <9307060852.aa09234@eng.futurenet.com> Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Has anyone got MajorDomo set up on a SCO machine? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. From Majordomo-Users-Owner Tue Jul 6 13:05:44 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10889; Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:05:44 GMT Received: from MIT.EDU (MIT.MIT.EDU) by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10882; Tue, 6 Jul 93 06:05:36 PDT Received: from POSSE.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA29375; Tue, 6 Jul 93 09:07:49 EDT Received: by isig.mit.edu (5.57/Ultrix4.2-A) id AA08185; Tue, 6 Jul 93 09:07:46 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 09:07:46 -0400 From: mlbarrow@POSSE.MIT.EDU (Michael L Barrow) Message-Id: <9307061307.AA08185@isig.mit.edu> To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Cc: plee@MIT.EDU Subject: Problem: no mail going out.... Reply-To: mlbarrow@MIT.EDU X-Full-Name: Michael L Barrow X-Address: 77 Massachusetts Ave, 11-221 X-Address: Cambridge, MA 02139 X-Phone: 617-253-7664 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I have a list called '4d' and a digested version of that list called '4d-digest'. The people on '4d' are complaining that they haven't seen any mail while the digest is going out just fine. The only difference that I see in the setup of the two is that there are 363 people on '4d' and only 40 on '4d-digest'. Can you all look at my configs and tell me if you see some glaring error? Does anyone know of any problems with Ultrix 4.2A and sendmail that I should know about? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment you can provide! Enclosure 1: Piece of my aliases file ===================================== owner-4d: mlbarrow@mit.edu 4d-owner: owner-4d 4d-approval: owner-4d 4d-request: "|/var/local/majordomo/wrapper request-answer 4d" # admin for 4d-digest owner-4d-digest: owner-4d 4d-digest-owner: owner-4d 4d-digest-approval: owner-4d 4d-digest-request: "|/var/local/majordomo/wrapper request-answer 4d-digest" # handling the lists... 4d: 4d-split 4d-digest: 4d-split 4d-split: 4d-out, 4d-digest-in 4d-out: "|/var/local/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -l 4d -f owner-4d -h isig.mit.edu -s 4d-l" 4d-digest-in: "|/var/local/majordomo/wrapper digest -r -c /var/local/majordomo/digest-stuff/4d-digest.cf" 4d-digest-out: "|/var/local/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -l 4d-digest -f owner-4d-digest -h isig.mit.edu -s 4d-digest-l" 4d-digest-l: :include:/var/local/majordomo/Lists/4d-digest 4d-l: :include:/var/local/majordomo/Lists/4d Enclosure 2: Digest config file for 4d-digest ============================================= #Digest configuration file # #name that appears in subject line and digest banner NAME=ACI 4D Digest #address reader send to to reply to the entire list REPLY-TO=4d-digest@isig.mit.edu #address error messages should go to ERRORS-TO=owner-4d@isig.mit.edu #address the digest itself appears to be sent to TO=4d-digest@isig.mit.edu #address the digest really is sent to REALLY-TO=4d-digest-l@isig.mit.edu #address administrative nonsense should go to FROM=owner-4d-digest@isig.mit.edu #file containing header text HEADER=/var/local/majordomo/digest-stuff/4d-digest.header #file containing trailer text TRAILER=/var/local/majordomo/digest-stuff/4d-digest.trailer #directory to store incoming messages INCOMING=/var/local/majordomo/digest-stuff/incoming/4d-digest #file containing volume number VOL_FILE=/var/local/majordomo/digest-stuff/4d-digest.vol #file containing issue number NUM_FILE=/var/local/majordomo/digest-stuff/4d-digest.num #directory to archive outgoing issues ARCHIVE=/var/local/majordomo/digest-stuff/archive/4d-digest #directory containing shlock.pl and other stuff HOME=/var/local/majordomo #how big do we let digests get before sending? DIGEST_SIZE=22000 * end * From Majordomo-Users-Owner Tue Jul 6 16:58:31 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA11281; Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:58:31 GMT Received: from relay2.UU.NET by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA11274; Tue, 6 Jul 93 09:58:24 PDT Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA06825; Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:00:47 -0400 Received: from telesoft.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 125840.18493; Tue, 6 Jul 1993 12:58:40 EDT Received: from lone.alsys.com by flash.alsys.com (4.1/TS-1.2a) id AA14955; Tue, 6 Jul 93 09:34:34 PDT Message-Id: <9307061634.AA14955@flash.alsys.com> Received: by lone.alsys.com (4.1/TS-1.2) id AA25334; Tue, 6 Jul 93 09:34:33 PDT From: mnejat@lone.alsys.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 09:34:32 PDT X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.2 4/12/91) To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: I need to get Majordomo software. Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Can someone tell me where to get it from. P.S. I don't have access to anon ftp. Any help is greatly appreciated. --Mehregan Nejat From Majordomo-Users-Owner Wed Jul 7 22:23:14 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA15239; Wed, 7 Jul 93 22:23:14 GMT Received: from dptspd.sat.datapoint.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA15230; Wed, 7 Jul 93 15:23:01 PDT Received: from endicor.com by dptspd.sat.datapoint.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0oDi1B-0000sWC; Wed, 7 Jul 93 17:31 CDT Received: by fezzik.endicor.com (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4.1) id AA02937; Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:32:20 -0500 From: Ty Sarna Message-Id: <199307072132.AA02937@fezzik.endicor.com> Subject: Re: UNIX listserver To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:32:17 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9307072043.AA02934@z.nsf.gov> from "Michael H. Morse" at Jul 7, 93 04:43:03 pm Organization: Endicor Technologies, Inc., San Antonio, Texas X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1441 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Michael H. Morse wrote: > > Hmmm. I have over 2,000 users on a non-"Revised Listserv" called > "listserv@nsf.gov", and nobody has ever complained. Could it be that > this esoteric stuff is more interesting to developers than to users, > who just might be smarter than we think? Could it be that users of > "Revised LISTSERV" are fewer in number than the hordes of new > users that are flooding the Internet? > > As far as fairness to the authors, I don't think the property rights > go as far as to the name "listserver". "LISTSERV" is just > "listserver" truncated to 8 characters to meet the needs of an e-mail > system based on the concept of moving punched cards between hosts. > > If I change the name to "LISTMGR", how am I providing better service? > I rather think I'll be confusing people. Thank you, that just about sums up my feelings. The name "listserv" is short, familiar, and describes pretty well what it does. The minor differences in command syntax between listservs (take that! I've generecized it!) are much less confusing than having a hundred different addresses to send to. There are a couple different ftpmail servers with quite different command syntaxes, and I've yet to see a complaint about stealing the name "ftpmail". I don't see how listserv is any different. -- Ty Sarna "Sure I'm shallow and you're deep, but aren't tsarna@endicor.com those just different ends of the same pool?" From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 8 00:15:27 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA15547; Thu, 8 Jul 93 00:15:27 GMT Received: from dptspd.sat.datapoint.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA15540; Wed, 7 Jul 93 17:15:19 PDT Received: from endicor.com by dptspd.sat.datapoint.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0oDjlz-0000M6C; Wed, 7 Jul 93 19:23 CDT Received: by fezzik.endicor.com (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4.1) id AA03319; Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:33:13 -0500 From: Ty Sarna Message-Id: <199307072233.AA03319@fezzik.endicor.com> Subject: Re: File capability for Majordomo? To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 17:33:06 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Alan Millar" at Jul 6, 93 00:53:10 am Organization: Endicor Technologies, Inc., San Antonio, Texas X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 587 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Alan Millar wrote: > > I have been looking at the FTPMAIL package which has some excellent > options for sending files with options for uuencoding and splitting. > It will also give you your choice of encoding, including mime which > looks very nice. > > [...] > > It is definitely worth taking a look at. Yes! I've installed it here and it's working great. The MIME capability is particularly nice. No more tedious uureconsitituting of files! -- Ty Sarna "Sure I'm shallow and you're deep, but aren't tsarna@endicor.com those just different ends of the same pool?" From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 8 05:42:26 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA16013; Thu, 8 Jul 93 05:42:26 GMT Received: from ub-gate.UB.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA16006; Wed, 7 Jul 93 22:42:17 PDT Received: from bolis.UUCP by ub-gate.UB.com (4.1/SMI-4.1[UB-1.8]) id AA07702; Wed, 7 Jul 93 22:45:08 PDT Received: by hock.bolis.sf-bay.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0oDoaj-0002zNC; Wed, 7 Jul 93 22:32 PDT Message-Id: From: Alan Millar Subject: Re: UNIX listserver To: tsarna@endicor.com (Ty Sarna) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 22:32:18 -0800 (PDT) Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199307072132.AA02937@fezzik.endicor.com> from "Ty Sarna" at Jul 7, 93 04:32:17 pm Reply-To: Alan Millar X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1918 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Verily didst Ty Sarna rise up and spake thus: > Michael H. Morse wrote: > > As far as fairness to the authors, I don't think the property rights > > go as far as to the name "listserver". "LISTSERV" is just > > "listserver" truncated to 8 characters to meet the needs of an e-mail > > system based on the concept of moving punched cards between hosts. > > > > If I change the name to "LISTMGR", how am I providing better service? > > I rather think I'll be confusing people. > > Thank you, that just about sums up my feelings. The name "listserv" is > short, familiar, and describes pretty well what it does. The minor > differences in command syntax between listservs (take that! I've > generecized it!) are much less confusing than having a hundred different > addresses to send to. The worst part about having different names on different machines is that since users can't remember what that darn administrative address is, they send their request to the mailing list! We've all seen the list messages saying "please add me" or worse "please unsubscribe me". What I did (to satisfy the Bitnet whiners) is call my setup "listserver". Messages from it say they are from "listserver". Then, to help real people, I also added aliases to it for listserv, mailserv, archive-server and one or two others. Because you KNOW that people are going to want to send to "listserv@sitename", and this way it still works. So even though it send out mail saying it is listserver, it will accept incoming mail to any of these addresses. If you ask me, accepting incoming messages at any of these names should be the default. - Alan ---- ,,,, Alan Millar amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.org __oo \ System Administrator =___/ "Windows/NT - From the people who brought you EDLIN" -Herb Peyerl From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 8 20:00:05 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA18051; Thu, 8 Jul 93 20:00:05 GMT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA18037; Thu, 8 Jul 93 12:59:55 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA17483; Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:02:15 -0700 Received: from worf (worf.warren.mentorg.com) by Warren.MENTORG.COM with SMTP id AA16327 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 8 Jul 1993 16:02:12 -0400 Received: by worf (5.0/SMI-4.0) id AA00927; Thu, 8 Jul 93 16:02:08 EDT From: tom_limoncelli@Warren.MENTORG.COM Message-Id: <9307082002.AA00927@worf.Warren.MENTORG.COM> Subject: Dumb question To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 16:02:07 -0500 (EDT) X-Phone: +1 908-604-0866 X-Asset-Tag: 000014257-3425 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 464 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I sent a message to a mailing list explaining the new subscription procedures. The problem is that majordomo rejected it claiming that I was trying to subscribe and sent the message to the list instead of "majordomo". How can I avoid this? Tom -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.org (play) "Some people run 'biff' to alert them that | Disclaimer: I do not they have new email. I run '/bin/true'". | speak for Mentor Graphics. From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 8 21:45:21 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA18599; Thu, 8 Jul 93 21:45:21 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA18588; Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:45:04 PDT Message-Id: <9307082145.AA18588@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: tom_limoncelli@Warren.MENTORG.COM Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Dumb question In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 8 Jul 1993 16:02:07 -0500 (EDT) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 14:45:03 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # I sent a message to a mailing list explaining the new # subscription procedures. # # The problem is that majordomo rejected it claiming that # I was trying to subscribe and sent the message to the # list instead of "majordomo". # # How can I avoid this? Remove (perhaps only temporarily) the "-s" flag to "resend" in the the alias for that list. "-s" tells "resend" to filter out administrivia. There are some heuristics in "resend" that decide what "administrivia" is; one of them is the word "subscribe" appearing in the first few lines of a message. -Brent From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 9 18:33:10 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA21189; Fri, 9 Jul 93 18:33:10 GMT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA21182; Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:32:57 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA12636; Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:35:44 -0700 Received: from hog (hog.warren.mentorg.com) by Warren.MENTORG.COM with SMTP id AA19418 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:35:38 -0400 Received: by hog (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA17729; Fri, 9 Jul 93 14:35:37 EDT From: tom_limoncelli@Warren.MENTORG.COM Message-Id: <9307091835.AA17729@hog.Warren.MENTORG.COM> Subject: Many aliases To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:35:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Phone: +1 908-604-0866 X-Asset-Tag: 000014257-3425 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 756 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk A day or so ago someone mentioned that they had aliases set up so that message to "listserv", "listserver", "archive-server", etc. all were re-directed to "majordomo". I have found that this kind of thing leads to trouble. People stumble on these aliases and get dependent on them, and suddenly you feel obligated to support them. I've found a better solution is to simply have those addresses answer back with a message telling the user what the correct address is. The result is a lot less confusing in the end. Just my $0.02, Tom -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.org (play) "Some people run 'biff' to alert them that | Disclaimer: I do not they have new email. I run '/bin/true'". | speak for Mentor Graphics. From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 9 18:41:41 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA21216; Fri, 9 Jul 93 18:41:41 GMT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA21209; Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:41:29 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA12777; Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:44:18 -0700 Received: from hog (hog.warren.mentorg.com) by Warren.MENTORG.COM with SMTP id AA19636 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:44:00 -0400 Received: by hog (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA17750; Fri, 9 Jul 93 14:43:58 EDT From: tom_limoncelli@Warren.MENTORG.COM Message-Id: <9307091843.AA17750@hog.Warren.MENTORG.COM> Subject: Two patches To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:43:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Phone: +1 908-604-0866 X-Asset-Tag: 000014257-3425 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3311 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here is a patch that adds two features. The first feature is that "unsubscribe" commands now comment out the address rather than completely deleting the address. Yes, this means that the list could grow without bounds if a local admin doesn't clean out the list once in a while. However, this permits me to get a better feeling of history for the list. It's also a great way to look up an old address :-). [To add this, I just had to make a simple change to the do_unsubscribe sub, and I made "who" and "which" skip lines that were commented out. If "which" goes unmodified, it will never match "#foo@bar" when looking for "foo@bar", so it doesn't really matter. "who" needs to not list deleted addresses. "sendmail" already skips comments, so no special post-processing is needed.] The second feature deals with the problem of people sending commands like "subscribe LIST for ADDRESS" when they mean "subscribe LIST ADDRESS". Rather than "guessing" what they mean, I squawk at them: subscribe: 'for' not needed in subscribe command. Please re-send request. I also handle (in sort of a sloppy way) people sending requests to subscribe addresses with spaces in them. That shouldn't be allowed. Tom ------------------- begin patch ------------------- *** majordomo.orig Fri Jul 9 14:31:36 1993 --- majordomo Fri Jul 9 14:31:18 1993 *************** *** 131,137 **** # figure out who's trying to subscribe, and check that it's a valid address local($subscriber) = join(" ", @_); ! if ($subscriber eq "") { $subscriber = $reply_to; } if (! &valid_addr($subscriber)) { --- 131,147 ---- # figure out who's trying to subscribe, and check that it's a valid address local($subscriber) = join(" ", @_); ! if ($subscriber) { ! if ($subscriber =~ /^for /i) { ! &squawk("subscribe: 'for' not needed in subscribe command."); ! &squawk(" Please re-send request."); ! return 0; ! } elsif ($subscriber =~ / /o) { ! &squawk("subscribe: address \"$subscriber\" shouldn't have whitespace"); ! &squawk(" (or list name was entered wrong)."); ! return 0; ! } ! } else { $subscriber = $reply_to; } if (! &valid_addr($subscriber)) { *************** *** 222,227 **** --- 232,238 ---- if (! &addr_match($_, $subscriber)) { print NEW $_; } else { + print NEW "#", $_; $match_count++; if ($match_count != 1) { &squawk("unsubscribe: '$subscriber' matches multiple list members."); *************** *** 346,351 **** --- 357,363 ---- } open(LIST, "$listdir/$list") || &abort("Can't open list $listdir/$_"); while () { + next if /^#/o; $_ = &chop_nl($_); if (&addr_match($_, $subscriber, 1)) { if ($count == 0) { *************** *** 385,390 **** --- 397,403 ---- print REPLY "Members of list '$clean_list':\n\n"; if (&lopen(LIST, "", "$listdir/$clean_list")) { while () { + next if /^#/o; print REPLY $_; } &lclose(LIST); ------------------- end patch ------------------- -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.org (play) "Some people run 'biff' to alert them that | Disclaimer: I do not they have new email. I run '/bin/true'". | speak for Mentor Graphics. From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 9 18:51:01 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA21236; Fri, 9 Jul 93 18:51:01 GMT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA21229; Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:50:44 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA12973; Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:53:34 -0700 Received: from hog (hog.warren.mentorg.com) by Warren.MENTORG.COM with SMTP id AA19943 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:53:30 -0400 Received: by hog (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA17791; Fri, 9 Jul 93 14:53:29 EDT From: tom_limoncelli@Warren.MENTORG.COM Message-Id: <9307091853.AA17791@hog.Warren.MENTORG.COM> Subject: Patch to the patch To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Phone: +1 908-604-0866 X-Asset-Tag: 000014257-3425 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2852 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Ooops, I just realized that I forgot to make the same change to the "unsubscribe" and "approve" command. I also closed a bug that would appear if a user sent "subscribe LIST 0". Enjoy! Tom ----------- start of patch ----------- *** majordomo.orig Fri Jul 9 14:52:23 1993 --- majordomo Fri Jul 9 14:52:20 1993 *************** *** 131,137 **** # figure out who's trying to subscribe, and check that it's a valid address local($subscriber) = join(" ", @_); ! if ($subscriber) { if ($subscriber =~ /^for /i) { &squawk("subscribe: 'for' not needed in subscribe command."); &squawk(" Please re-send request."); --- 131,137 ---- # figure out who's trying to subscribe, and check that it's a valid address local($subscriber) = join(" ", @_); ! if ($subscriber ne "") { if ($subscriber =~ /^for /i) { &squawk("subscribe: 'for' not needed in subscribe command."); &squawk(" Please re-send request."); *************** *** 202,208 **** # figure out who's trying to unsubscribe, and check it's a valid address local($subscriber) = join(" ", @_); ! if ($subscriber eq "") { $subscriber = $reply_to; } if (! &valid_addr($subscriber)) { --- 202,218 ---- # figure out who's trying to unsubscribe, and check it's a valid address local($subscriber) = join(" ", @_); ! if ($subscriber ne "") { ! if ($subscriber =~ /^for /i) { ! &squawk("subscribe: 'for' not needed in subscribe command."); ! &squawk(" Please re-send request."); ! return 0; ! } elsif ($subscriber =~ / /o) { ! &squawk("subscribe: address \"$subscriber\" shouldn't have whitespace"); ! &squawk(" (or list name was entered wrong)."); ! return 0; ! } ! } else { $subscriber = $reply_to; } if (! &valid_addr($subscriber)) { *************** *** 279,284 **** --- 289,304 ---- $cmd =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/; # downcase the command (local($list) = shift) || &squawk("approve: which list?"); (local($subscriber) = join(" ",@_)) || &squawk("approve: who?"); + if ($subscriber =~ /^for /i) { + &squawk("approve: 'for' not needed in un/subscribe command."); + &squawk(" Please re-send request."); + return 0; + } elsif ($subscriber =~ / /o) { + &squawk("approve: address \"$subscriber\" shouldn't have whitespace"); + &squawk(" (or list name was entered wrong)."); + return 0; + } + # Check to see if the list is valid local($clean_list) = &valid_list($listdir, $list); if ($clean_list ne "") { ----------- end of patch ----------- -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.org (play) "Some people run 'biff' to alert them that | Disclaimer: I do not they have new email. I run '/bin/true'". | speak for Mentor Graphics. From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 15 00:48:20 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03091; Thu, 15 Jul 93 00:48:20 GMT Received: from merlot.arc.nasa.gov by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03084; Wed, 14 Jul 93 17:48:12 PDT Received: Wed, 14 Jul 93 17:51:18 PDT from localhost.arc.nasa.gov by merlot.arc.nasa.gov (4.1/1.2) Message-Id: <9307150051.AA15274@merlot.arc.nasa.gov> To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Question concerning private lists. Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:51:09 -0700 From: Alex Deacon Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk It seems to me if a person who is not subscribed to a private mailing list cannot 'see' the people on that list (with the who or which commands) then it follows that that person should not be able to post to that list. Is there a way to block people not subscribed to a private mailing list from posting to the list?? If not then I guess I should get the ol' Perl book out. :) Thanks Alex --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Deacon NAIC Email: naic@nasa.gov Network Applications and NAIC 800 #: 800-858-9947 Information Center (NAIC) NAIC Phone: 415-604-0600 NASA Ames Research Center M/S 233-18 Email: awdeacon@atlas.arc.nasa.gov Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000 Phone: 415-604-0752 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 15 01:18:28 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03406; Thu, 15 Jul 93 01:18:28 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03398; Wed, 14 Jul 93 18:18:14 PDT Message-Id: <9307150118.AA03398@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: Alex Deacon Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Question concerning private lists. In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:51:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 18:18:13 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # # It seems to me if a person who is not subscribed to a private # mailing list cannot 'see' the people on that list (with the who or # which commands) then it follows that that person should not be able to # post to that list. Is there a way to block people not subscribed to a # private mailing list from posting to the list?? # # If not then I guess I should get the ol' Perl book out. :) In a word: no. Remember that Majordomo manages the list of names, and has nothing to do with how that list is used. You could probably modify "resend" to do this. I hope to have a new version of "resend" that supports moderated mailing lists out within the next couple of weeks; if you're not in a big hurry, I'd suggest waiting to use that new version as your code base, rather than the existing version. -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 16 08:28:55 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA08546; Fri, 16 Jul 93 08:28:55 GMT Received: from nic.eunet.no by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA08539; Fri, 16 Jul 93 01:28:45 PDT Received: from taskon.no by nic.eunet.no with UUCP id AA16041 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4/EUnet/NO for greatcircle.com!majordomo-users); Fri, 16 Jul 1993 10:30:22 +0200 Message-Id: <199307160830.AA16041@nic.eunet.no> To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: FAQ?? Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 10:27:34 -0000 From: cepe@taskon.no X-Mts: smtp Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Is theer a FAQ available on installation and use of majordomo? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl P. Swensson internet: cepe@taskon.no Taskon AS x400: /c=no/admd=telemax/prmd=taskon/s=swensson Gaustadalleen 21 Tel: +47-22 95 86 21 N-0371 Oslo, Norway Fax: +47-22 60 44 27 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 16 17:11:51 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA09711; Fri, 16 Jul 93 17:11:51 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA09703; Fri, 16 Jul 93 10:11:46 PDT Message-Id: <9307161711.AA09703@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: cepe@taskon.no Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: FAQ?? Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 10:11:45 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # Is theer a FAQ available on installation and use of majordomo? No. -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Mon Jul 19 13:34:31 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA17206; Mon, 19 Jul 93 13:34:31 GMT Received: from nic.eunet.no by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA17199; Mon, 19 Jul 93 06:34:12 PDT Received: from taskon.no by nic.eunet.no with UUCP id AA20563 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4/EUnet/NO for greatcircle.com!majordomo-users); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 15:35:33 +0200 Message-Id: <199307191335.AA20563@nic.eunet.no> To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: getopt.pl and ctime.pl? Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:34:06 -0000 From: cepe@taskon.no X-Mts: smtp Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I have tried to install majordomo, but when I try to send mail to the mailing list it gives an error message: >Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:19:04 +0200 >From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) >Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2 >To: owner-sample >----- Transcript of session follows ----- >Can't locate getopts.pl in @INC at /usr/local/majordomo/resend line 36. >554 "|/usr/local/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Sample -f Sample-Owner -h taskon.no -s sample-outgoing" ... unknown mailer error 2 > ----- Unsent message follows ----- >Received: by starbuck.taskon.no (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA25559; Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:19:04 +0200 >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:19:04 +0200 >From: cepe (Carl Petter Swensson) >To: sample >Subject: testing list I have also seen another error message regarding: Can't locate ctime.pl in @INC at /usr/local/majordomo/majordom line ??. Is my majordomo installation missing anything or is my perl installation incomplete. Are getops.pl and ctime.pl available anywhere? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl P. Swensson internet: cepe@taskon.no Taskon AS x400: /c=no/admd=telemax/prmd=taskon/s=swensson Gaustadalleen 21 Tel: +47-22 95 86 21 N-0371 Oslo, Norway Fax: +47-22 60 44 27 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Majordomo-Users-Owner Wed Jul 21 00:30:41 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA23877; Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:30:41 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA23867; Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:30:25 PDT Message-Id: <9307210030.AA23867@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: cepe@taskon.no Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: getopt.pl and ctime.pl? In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:34:06 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:30:23 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # I have tried to install majordomo, but when I try to send mail to the mailing list it gives an error # message: # # # >Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON # >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:19:04 +0200 # >From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) # >Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2 # >To: owner-sample # # >----- Transcript of session follows ----- # >Can't locate getopts.pl in @INC at /usr/local/majordomo/resend line 36. # >554 "|/usr/local/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Sample -f Sample-Owner # -h taskon.no -s sample-outgoing" ... unknown mailer error 2 # # > ----- Unsent message follows ----- # >Received: by starbuck.taskon.no (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) # id AA25559; Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:19:04 +0200 # >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:19:04 +0200 # >From: cepe (Carl Petter Swensson) # >To: sample # >Subject: testing list # # # I have also seen another error message regarding: Can't locate ctime.pl in @INC at # /usr/local/majordomo/majordom line ??. # # Is my majordomo installation missing anything or is my perl installation incomplete. Are getops.pl and # ctime.pl available anywhere? getopts.pl and ctime.pl are both part of the standard perl distribution. On my system, they're installed in /usr/local/lib/perl, but that's something you set when you install perl, and that location is NOT hardcoded into Majordomo. It seems likely that you've got either an old or broken or incomplete perl installation. -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Wed Jul 21 16:31:35 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA28458; Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:31:35 GMT Received: from sgi.sgi.com (SGI.COM) by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA28447; Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:31:29 PDT Received: from relay.sgi.com by sgi.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/910110.SGI) for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com id AA21959; Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:32:29 -0700 Received: from oxford.chez.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgi.sgi.com:majordomo-users@greatcircle.com id AA16711; Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:32:27 -0700 Received: from localhost.chez.sgi.com by oxford.chez.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/921111.SGI.AUTO) for @relay.sgi.com:majordomo-users@greatcircle.com id AA15571; Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:39:32 -0700 Message-Id: <9307211639.AA15571@oxford.chez.sgi.com> To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: automatic handling of subdomains? Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:39:31 PDT From: Sam Leffler Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. For example, sam@flake.asd.sgi.com asks to be subscribed as sam@asd.sgi.com Is there a problem with having Majordomo automatically recognize and accept these cases (other than the obvious one that some sites might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different subdomains)? I figure you'll need some control over the stripping process; such as how many subdomains you're willing to strip off when matching the sender's identity against the requested account. My goal in doing this is to reduce the number of requests that I have to handle manually. Alternatively, how do folks respond to requests like the above, do you say "no" and/or tell folks to subscribe w/ an account name that's handled automatically? Sam From Majordomo-Users-Owner Wed Jul 21 17:20:34 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA28633; Wed, 21 Jul 93 17:20:34 GMT Received: from sws1.CTD.ORNL.GOV by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA28625; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:20:23 PDT Received: by sws1.CTD.ORNL.GOV (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA24055; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 13:21:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 13:21:04 -0400 From: Dave Sill Message-Id: <9307211721.AA24055@sws1.CTD.ORNL.GOV> To: Sam Leffler Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: automatic handling of subdomains? In-Reply-To: <9307211639.AA15571@oxford.chez.sgi.com> References: <9307211639.AA15571@oxford.chez.sgi.com> Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because >user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. Me too. >Is there a problem with having Majordomo automatically recognize >and accept these cases (other than the obvious one that some sites >might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different >subdomains)? I don't know sgi.com is organized, but within ornl.gov, the people capable of doing things the smart way (e.g., no duplicate user names) aren't in administrative control of every SMTP-capable box on the network. We have mail aliases for a substantial percentage of our user base on the ornl.gov system, and they're unique, but there are still various accounts for subcontractors, visiting colleagues, etc., on non-centrally managed systems that might not be unique. >My goal in doing this is to reduce the number of requests that I >have to handle manually. I'm all for it. I'm willing to accept responsibility if Joe Smith at Digital Stimulation (jsmith@joe.digstim.com) subs or unsubs John Smith (jsmith@digstim.com), because: - I don't think it'll happen too often, compared the number of niusance approvals I have to do, and - it's partially their fault for letting Joe Smith use John's username >Alternatively, how do folks respond to >requests like the above, do you say "no" and/or tell folks to >subscribe w/ an account name that's handled automatically? No, it's easiest just to approve them. I might have to approve their unsubscription later, but that's still easier than sending a message telling them to re-subscribe. And, hey, you never know...I might drop dead before he decides to unsubscribe, and I'd hate to waste any of my short time remaining handling unnecessary mailing list administrivia. :-) -- Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov) Computers should work the way beginners Martin Marietta Energy Systems expect them to, and one day they will. Workstation Support -- Ted Nelson From Majordomo-Users-Owner Wed Jul 21 17:41:43 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA28950; Wed, 21 Jul 93 17:41:43 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA28931; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:40:23 PDT Message-Id: <9307211740.AA28931@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: Sam Leffler Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:39:31 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:40:21 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because # user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. # For example, # # sam@flake.asd.sgi.com # # asks to be subscribed as # # sam@asd.sgi.com # # Is there a problem with having Majordomo automatically recognize # and accept these cases (other than the obvious one that some sites # might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different # subdomains)? I figure you'll need some control over the stripping # process; such as how many subdomains you're willing to strip off # when matching the sender's identity against the requested account. If you can come up with code that will handle this, I'd love to include it in a future release. I've been playing with this idea since the very earliest days of Majordomo, and haven't really come up with a satisfactory solution. A similar situation is people subscribing variations of the account; for instance "brent@greatcircle.com" attempts to subscribe "Brent_Chapman@GreatCircle.COM". # My goal in doing this is to reduce the number of requests that I # have to handle manually. Alternatively, how do folks respond to # requests like the above, do you say "no" and/or tell folks to # subscribe w/ an account name that's handled automatically? Neither; I just approve them. A human is much more capable of recognizing situations like you describe than software is. Included with Majordomo is a little script called "approve" that takes an approval request message from Majordomo on standard input and generates the appropriate message back to Majordomo to approve that request; this makes it trivially painless to approve things. Instructions for setting up and using approve are in comments at the start of the file. -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Wed Jul 21 20:43:34 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA29684; Wed, 21 Jul 93 20:43:34 GMT Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA29677; Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:43:27 PDT Received: from hplmango.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA21771; Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:44:44 -0700 Received: by hplmango.hpl.hp.com (16.6/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA26240; Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:44:21 -0700 From: Laura Kirk de Leon Message-Id: <9307212044.AA26240@hplmango.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? To: sam@oxford.chez.sgi.com Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:44:21 PDT Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <9307211639.AA15571@oxford.chez.sgi.com>; from "Sam Leffler" at Jul 21, 93 9:39 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > (other than the obvious one that some sites > might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different > subdomains)? The same subdomain does not imply same administrative control. This is probably fairly common. laura de leon deleon@hpl.hp.com From Majordomo-Users-Owner Wed Jul 21 23:27:31 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00199; Wed, 21 Jul 93 23:27:31 GMT Received: from osiris.usi.utah.edu by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00192; Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:27:24 PDT Received: by osiris.usi.utah.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15011; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 17:27:58 -0600 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 17:27:58 -0600 From: tim@osiris.usi.utah.edu (Tim Burns) Message-Id: <9307212327.AA15011@osiris.usi.utah.edu> To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: majordomo on RS6000 Cc: tim@osiris.usi.utah.edu Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hello, I am brand new to this list. Has anyone out there been successful in getting majordomo to work on AIX 3.2.3. I seem to be having trouble with some of the POSIX security stuff. Here is what I get: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- /scratch/mail/majordomo/wrapper: error: insecure usage 554 "|/scratch/mail/majordomo/wrapper /scratch/mail/majordomo/majordomo"... unkn own mailer error 2 I have my wrapper owned by root and the permissions on it are: -rwsr-xr-x 1 root system 7406 Jul 21 15:30 wrapper* Has anyone solved this puzzle? Thanks, Tim From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 01:09:26 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00431; Thu, 22 Jul 93 01:09:26 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA00421; Wed, 21 Jul 93 18:08:37 PDT Message-Id: <9307220108.AA00421@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: tim@osiris.usi.utah.edu (Tim Burns) Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: majordomo on RS6000 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 21 Jul 1993 17:27:58 -0600 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 18:08:36 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # # # Hello, # I am brand new to this list. Has anyone out there been successful # in getting majordomo to work on AIX 3.2.3. I seem to be having # trouble with some of the POSIX security stuff. Here is what I # get: # # ----- Transcript of session follows ----- # /scratch/mail/majordomo/wrapper: error: insecure usage # 554 "|/scratch/mail/majordomo/wrapper /scratch/mail/majordomo/majordomo"... unkn # own mailer error 2 # # I have my wrapper owned by root and the permissions on it are: # -rwsr-xr-x 1 root system 7406 Jul 21 15:30 wrapper* # # Has anyone solved this puzzle? # # Thanks, # Tim This is not something specific to RS6000; it's a usage error on your part. You must NOT pass "wrapper" an absolute path name to the "majordomo" script, or any of the other scripts. "wrapper" knows where to look for the scripts; it's specified at compile time. If you try to pass "wrapper" a program name with a "/" in it, it assumes you're trying to subvert security by running some random command (a shell, say) with whatever permissions "wrapper" is setuid/setgid to. I know, this stinks; I'm still hoping somebody will make Majordomo work under "taintperl", though... -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 08:01:12 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA01973; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:01:12 GMT Received: from dptspd.sat.datapoint.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA01966; Thu, 22 Jul 93 01:01:04 PDT Received: from endicor.com by dptspd.sat.datapoint.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0oIvjp-0000giC; Thu, 22 Jul 93 03:10 CDT Received: by fezzik.endicor.com (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4.1) id AA03204; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 03:00:15 -0500 To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM X-Gateway: Endicor News-to-Mail Gateway Newsgroups: endicor.lists.majordomo From: tsarna@endicor.com (Ty Sarna) Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? Message-Id: Organization: Endicor Technologies, Inc., San Antonio, Texas References: <9307211639.AA15571@oxford.chez.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 07:58:22 GMT Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In article <9307211639.AA15571@oxford.chez.sgi.com> Sam Leffler writes: > I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because > user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. > For example, > > sam@flake.asd.sgi.com > > asks to be subscribed as > > sam@asd.sgi.com > > Is there a problem with having Majordomo automatically recognize > and accept these cases (other than the obvious one that some sites > might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different > subdomains)? I figure you'll need some control over the stripping Now wait just a minute here! Do you really believe that it's stupid to have, say, bob@brooks.af.mil and bob@holmstead.af.mil refer to different people? Do you think it's really reasonable for someone the size of that Air Force to keep account names unique across the entire world? For that matter, endicor.com and GreatCircle.COM are both subdomains of .com. You're saying it's stupid to have non-unique names across two entirely seperate companies? Is it stupid to have duplicate account names across nyx.cs.du.edu and cs.du.edu? They have almost nothing in common. This makes no more sense than requiring no duplicate filenames between /tmp and /usr/tmp. If there has to be one flat, global namespace, why bother with domains at all? You simply can't make any assumption about the relationship between a domain and its subdomains and expect it to hold true in the real world. It's just the sort of logic that makes X.400 the mess that it is. (And please, this isn't a flame, though making blanket staments calling people stupid is a good way to get flamed). -- Ty Sarna "A datagram can therefore be up to 4294967295 bytes in overall length. Particular networks will tsarna@endicor.com normally impose lower limits." -- RFC 1475, IP v7 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 14:07:49 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA02623; Thu, 22 Jul 93 14:07:49 GMT Received: from acri.acri.fr ([192.70.70.39]) by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA02615; Thu, 22 Jul 93 07:06:34 PDT Received: from lscc1.acri.fr (mailhost.acri.fr [192.134.232.2]) by acri.acri.fr (8.1C/ACRI-930701) with SMTP id QAA02882; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 16:04:12 +0200 Received: from soft25.acri.fr by lscc1.acri.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19193; Thu, 22 Jul 93 16:03:55 +0200 Received: by soft25.acri.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09519; Thu, 22 Jul 93 16:03:24 +0200 To: Brent Chapman Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jul 1993 10:40:21 PDT." <9307211740.AA28931@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> X-Mailer: MH [version 6.8] Organization: A.C.R.I., Lyon, France Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 16:03:23 +0200 Message-Id: <9518.743349803@soft25> From: Raphael Manfredi Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Quoting Brent Chapman: :# I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because :# user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. :# For example, :# :# sam@flake.asd.sgi.com :# :# asks to be subscribed as :# :# sam@asd.sgi.com :# :# Is there a problem with having Majordomo automatically recognize :# and accept these cases (other than the obvious one that some sites :# might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different :# subdomains)? I figure you'll need some control over the stripping :# process; such as how many subdomains you're willing to strip off :# when matching the sender's identity against the requested account. : :If you can come up with code that will handle this, I'd love to :include it in a future release. I've been playing with this idea :since the very earliest days of Majordomo, and haven't really come up :with a satisfactory solution. Below are some routines I have developped for my own MLM package. They might be of some help. The addr_match routine will tell you that: ram%acri.fr@inria.fr and ram@soft25.acri.fr are identical. However, the second one is NOT equivalent to ram@soft26.acri.fr since soft26 and soft25 could be two distinct software departments inside acri.fr, or two distinct entities. If you come up with a better scheme, please let me know. # # Address stuff # # Simplify address for comparaison purposes sub addr_simplify { local($_) = @_; return &addr_simplify($_) if s/^@[\w-.]+://; # @b.c:x -> x and retry return "$2@$1.uucp" if /^([\w-]+)!(\w+)$/; # b!u -> u@b.uucp return "$2@$1" if /^([\w-.]+)!(\w+)$/; # b.c!u -> u@b.c return $_ if /^\w+@[\w-.]+$/; # u@b.c return &addr_simplify("$2!$3") if /([^%@]!)*([\w-.]+)!(\w+)$/; # ...!b!u -> b!u return "$1@$2" if /^(\w+)%([\w-.]+)@[\w-.]+/; # u%b.c@d.e -> u@b.c return &addr_simplify($1) if s/(.*)@[\w-.]+$//; # x@b.c -> x and retry return &addr_simplify("$1@$2") if /^([\w-.%!]+)%([\w-.]+)$/; # x%b -> x@b and retry return $_; # Hmm... Better stop here, since we are clueless!! } # Does first address matches second address? sub addr_match { local($a1, $a2) = @_; # Two plain e-mail addresses (no comments) $a1 =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/; # Cannonicalize to lower case $a2 =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/; local($s1) = &addr_simplify($a1); local($s2) = &addr_simplify($a2); return 1 if $s1 eq $s2; # Face ram@lyon.eiffel.com versus ram@york.eiffel.com or ram@eiffel.com # We do not want a match in the first case ('york' and 'lyon' might not # be machine name but sub-organizations inside eiffel.com), but it's ok for # the other one. local($p1, $p2) = ($s1, $s2); $p1 =~ s/(\W)/\\$1/g; $p2 =~ s/(\W)/\\$1/g; $p1 =~ s/@/@[\\w-]+\\./; $p2 =~ s/@/@[\\w-]+\\./; $s1 =~ /^$p2$/ || $s2 =~ /^$p1$/; } -- Raphael Manfredi Advanced Computer Research Institute 1, boulevard Marius Vivier-Merle / Tel +33 72-35-80-55 \ 69443 Lyon Cedex 03, FRANCE \ Fax +33 72-35-84-10 / From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 15:14:06 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA02747; Thu, 22 Jul 93 15:14:06 GMT Received: from sgi.sgi.com (SGI.COM) by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA02740; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:13:59 PDT Received: from relay.sgi.com by sgi.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/910110.SGI) for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com id AA03990; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:14:56 -0700 Received: from oxford.chez.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgi.sgi.com:tsarna@endicor.com id AA09500; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:14:53 -0700 Received: from localhost.chez.sgi.com by oxford.chez.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/921111.SGI.AUTO) for @relay.sgi.com:majordomo-users@greatcircle.com id AA18237; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:21:59 -0700 Message-Id: <9307221521.AA18237@oxford.chez.sgi.com> To: tsarna@endicor.com (Ty Sarna) Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 22 Jul 93 07:58:22 +0000. Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:21:58 PDT From: Sam Leffler Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? From: tsarna@endicor.com (Ty Sarna) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 07:58:22 GMT In article <9307211639.AA15571@oxford.chez.sgi.com> Sam Leffler writes: > I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because > user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. > For example, > > sam@flake.asd.sgi.com > > asks to be subscribed as > > sam@asd.sgi.com > > Is there a problem with having Majordomo automatically recognize > and accept these cases (other than the obvious one that some sites > might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different > subdomains)? I figure you'll need some control over the stripping Now wait just a minute here! Do you really believe that it's stupid to have, say, bob@brooks.af.mil and bob@holmstead.af.mil refer to different people? Do you think it's really reasonable for someone the size of that Air Force to keep account names unique across the entire world? I know that many UNIX-based software packages will not work properly if user names are duplicated within "administrative domains". I'm not condoning it; but in my experience it does wonderous things to license servers, accounting systems, etc. If subdomains are "compartmentalized" so that they only communicate by restricted channels then it can work. For that matter, endicor.com and GreatCircle.COM are both subdomains of .com. You're saying it's stupid to have non-unique names across two entirely seperate companies? Think about what I'm trying to deal with. In many companies subdomains do not reflect geographical setup but rather organizational setup (not that it especially matters). When the whole organization is then placed behind a firewall the administrators frequently rewrite mail headers to insure the internal subdomain structure is not visible. This way when the next internal reorg happens and people are shuffled, the outside world doesn't need to know about it. My experience indicates that a large majority of the corporate subdomains are meaningless to the Majordomo package and so I'd like to not have to do extra work to deal with them. Obviously there must be a mechanism to override this facility--or perhaps you stop reading my mail after I found your hotspot :-) Sam From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 15:49:36 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA02816; Thu, 22 Jul 93 15:49:36 GMT Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA02804; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:49:20 PDT Received: from warren.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA10230; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:49:46 -0700 Received: from worf (worf.warren.mentorg.com) by Warren.MENTORG.COM with SMTP id AA15769 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 22 Jul 1993 11:49:43 -0400 Received: by worf (5.0/SMI-4.0) id AA21298; Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:49:54 EDT From: tom_limoncelli@Warren.MENTORG.COM Message-Id: <9307221549.AA21298@worf.Warren.MENTORG.COM> Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 11:49:53 -0500 (EDT) X-Phone: +1 908-604-0866 X-Asset-Tag: 000014257-3425 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1545 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I don't think that majordomo should try to out-guess the administrative policies of a domain. If a site wants to... change userids to full names... hide a host name (messages from ANYHOST.warren.mentorg.com look like they came from warren.mentorg.com)... or both... then it is their responsibility to be consistent and always generate From: addresses that make sense. When we decided to have all *.warren.mentorg.com nodes receive mail on one central host, we realized that we should make their out-going addresses @warren.mentorgg.com or we would have problems. (We do generate MX records for the individual machines that point to the mail server... just in case). I think that making majordomo "guess" is asking for trouble, and gives no incentive to sysadmins to fix their sendmail configuration. If someone subscribed before some sendmail hack and now can't unsubscribe, they can use the "unsubscribe foo bar" format. I think what we really need is for mailing list admins to have procmail (or deliver, or filter, etc.) file anything from majordomo to a special folder, and then someone can write a a program that reads from the folder and gives you a better front end. Or, as Brent suggested, pipe a "approve request" to his 'approve' script and let it do the work. (or, just xterms and cut-and-paste ;-) ) Tom -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.org (play) "Some people run 'biff' to alert them that | Disclaimer: I do not they have new email. I run '/bin/true'". | speak for Mentor Graphics. From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 17:25:45 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03289; Thu, 22 Jul 93 17:25:45 GMT Received: from onion.rain.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03281; Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:25:35 PDT Received: by onion.rain.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.12) id ; Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:26 PDT Message-Id: To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:49:53 CDT." <9307221549.AA21298@worf.Warren.MENTORG.COM> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:26:32 -0700 From: Jeff Beadles Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Here's what I do to handle manual approvals. I run several lists here, with different names and passwords. I have a script that I call mlist_ctl (mailing list control). I have symlinks pointing to it with shortened names of my mailing lists. For example, I have a "bounces" list. Thus; lrwxrwxrwx 1 jeff 9 Apr 3 02:34 bsub -> mlist_ctl lrwxrwxrwx 1 jeff 9 Apr 3 02:34 bunsub -> mlist_ctl Then, I just say "bsub address", using xterm cut/paste for the address. My mlist_ctl program is attached, for those who are interested. It's nothing fancy, heck it's not even in Perl. :-) One warning; Make sure that this file isn't world readable, as your mailing list passwords are in here in cleartext. -Jeff -- Jeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com #!/bin/sh ## Subscribe/unsubscribe to mailing lists ## Called as: address (eg; bsub foo@bar.edu) ## PROGRAM=`basename $0` MAJORDOMO_ADDRESS="majordomo@onion.rain.com" LIST="" WHAT="" case "$PROGRAM" in bsub) LIST=bounces; WHAT=subscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; bunsub) LIST=bounces; WHAT=unsubscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; bsdisub) LIST=rain-bsdi; WHAT=subscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; bsdiunsub) LIST=rain-bsdi; WHAT=unsubscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; fsub) LIST=falcon3; WHAT=subscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; funsub) LIST=falcon3; WHAT=unsubscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; fnodsub) LIST=falcon3-nodigest; WHAT=subscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; fnodunsub) LIST=falcon3-nodigest; WHAT=unsubscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; ssub) LIST=hitech-sim; WHAT=subscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; sunsub) LIST=hitech-sim; WHAT=unsubscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; snodsub) LIST=hitech-sim-nodigest; WHAT=subscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; snodunsub) LIST=hitech-sim-nodigest; WHAT=unsubscribe; PASSWORD=your_pw;; # You get the idea ... *) echo "Unknown list/action $PROGRAM" >&2; exit 1;; esac if [ $# -ne 1 ] ; then echo "Usage: $PROGRAM address" >&2 exit 1 fi ADDRESS="$1" # Note: Don't echo cleartext password echo "approve PASSWORD $WHAT $LIST $ADDRESS" echo "approve $PASSWORD $WHAT $LIST $ADDRESS" | mail $MAJORDOMO_ADDRESS exit 0 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 17:37:41 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03338; Thu, 22 Jul 93 17:37:41 GMT Received: from atc.boeing.com ([130.42.28.80]) by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03329; Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:37:29 PDT Received: by atc.boeing.com (5.57) id AA15417; Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:42:18 -0700 Received: from aw137.iasl.ca.boeing.com by aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com with SMTP id AA14359 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.4 for sam@oxford.chez.sgi.com); Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:37:26 -0700 From: "Vincent D. Skahan" Received: by aw137. (5.65c/client-1.3) id AA25852; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:32:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199307221732.AA25852@aw137.> Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? To: sam@oxford.chez.sgi.com (Sam Leffler) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <9307221521.AA18237@oxford.chez.sgi.com> from "Sam Leffler" at Jul 22, 93 08:21:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2967 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk (Sam Leffler writes:) > > I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because > > user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. > > For example, > > > > sam@flake.asd.sgi.com > > > > asks to be subscribed as > > > > sam@asd.sgi.com > > > > Is there a problem with having Majordomo automatically recognize > > and accept these cases (other than the obvious one that some sites > > might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different > > subdomains)? I figure you'll need some control over the stripping > I'm not going to use the word 'stupid' in this :-) but I think it's very unreasonable to expect any software to think that the examples above are the same address. I have accounts on literally 300+ systems inside Boeing (I'm an admin) and there is no way you can make that judgement here at least. You can't possibly build in enough smarts to know that at company-A they are different people and at company-B they are the same. Now maybe if there was a 'change my address without list-manager intervention' feature in the software that would be a nice thing (rather than trying to build some unattainable level of smarts into the package). > If subdomains are "compartmentalized" so that they only communicate > by restricted channels then it can work. you can't make the judgement that any one way of doing business is valid everywhere. You can only accept the address the subscribing user specifies. > the whole organization is then placed behind a firewall the > administrators frequently rewrite mail headers to insure the > internal subdomain structure is not visible. This way when > the next internal reorg happens and people are shuffled, the > outside world doesn't need to know about it. My experience > indicates that a large majority of the corporate subdomains > are meaningless to the Majordomo package and so I'd like to > not have to do extra work to deal with them. Obviously there > must be a mechanism to override this facility--or perhaps you > stop reading my mail after I found your hotspot :-) If the mail addresses getting to the remote majordomo server are invalid or unreachable, no amount of majordomo programming is going to fix that. You simply have to make the users supply valid addresses. Brent - how about something like: subscribe listname
unsubscribe listname
change_address old-subscribed-address new-address That way, it's all under the user's control and the list-manager person has to only say ok or not-ok (but not keep the books...). If you can subscribe/unsubscribe already, isn't "change_address" something reasonably possible ? -- ----------- Vince Skahan ------ vds7789@aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com ----------- One living dinosaur and it has to be Barney....lame ! lame ! lame ! lame ! "The Lame List" - Almost Live 7/4/93 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 18:07:21 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03584; Thu, 22 Jul 93 18:07:21 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03503; Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:04:53 PDT Message-Id: <9307221804.AA03503@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: "Vincent D. Skahan" Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 11:04:51 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # Brent - how about something like: # subscribe listname
# unsubscribe listname
That's exactly what's already there, and has been all along. The "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" commands have _always_ taken an optional email address, to be used instead of whatever is in the header. # change_address old-subscribed-address new-address # # That way, it's all under the user's control and the list-manager person # has to only say ok or not-ok (but not keep the books...). # # If you can subscribe/unsubscribe already, isn't "change_address" # something reasonably possible ? Sure, you have the user send a "subscribe" of the new address, followed by an "unsubscribe" of the old address... :-) Seriously, I've thought about this. The problem with using a "subscribe/unsubscribe" pair is that it's not atomic; one or the other of the requests might require list manager approval. This is particularly a problem when it's the "subscribe" that requires approval, and the "unsubscribe" doesn't; when that happens, the old address gets dropped from the list immediately, but the new address doesn't get added until the list manager approves it, and the person misses whatever was traffic there was to the list in the intervening period. The problem with with creating a "change " command is parsing. Majordomo breaks the command lines into chunks at spaces. A space can be a valid part of an email address (in the comment, for instance). The Majordomo syntax is constructed so that email addresses, when they appear, are always at the end of a command line; that way, I can strip the commands and list names and such off the front, and whatever is left (spaces and all) is the email address. If you've got multiple addresses with spaces, how do you decide where the division between the two addresses is? For instance, how would you parse: change list-managers brent@foo.com (Brent Chapman) chapman@bar.com Are the two addresses "brent@foo.com" and "(Brent Chapman) chapman@bar.com", or "brent@foo.com (Brent Chapman)" and "chapman@bar.com"? This is a trivial example that you can actually finesse relatively easily, but you can create much more devious examples... -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Thu Jul 22 20:23:21 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03943; Thu, 22 Jul 93 20:23:21 GMT Received: from atc.boeing.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA03936; Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:23:09 PDT Received: by atc.boeing.com (5.57) id AA05626; Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:12:25 -0700 Received: from aw137.iasl.ca.boeing.com by aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com with SMTP id AA15360 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.4 for brent@GreatCircle.COM); Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:07:32 -0700 From: "Vincent D. Skahan" Received: by aw137. (5.65c/client-1.3) id AA25998; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 13:02:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199307222002.AA25998@aw137.> Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? To: brent@GreatCircle.COM (Brent Chapman) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 13:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <9307221804.AA03503@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> from "Brent Chapman" at Jul 22, 93 11:04:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2202 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk (Brent Chapman writes:) > > # Brent - how about something like: > # change_address old-subscribed-address new-address > # > Seriously, I've thought about this. The problem with using a > "subscribe/unsubscribe" pair is that it's not atomic; one or the other > of the requests might require list manager approval. This is > particularly a problem when it's the "subscribe" that requires > approval, and the "unsubscribe" doesn't; when that happens, the old > address gets dropped from the list immediately, but the new address > doesn't get added until the list manager approves it, and the person > misses whatever was traffic there was to the list in the intervening period. You definitely have a point about approval being an issue. If either a 'subscribe' or a 'unsubscribe' requires some kind of validation then a change should require the same validation [probably]. That's why I'd rather see a 'change' than require a user to do the add+delete in two steps for the reason you mentioned. I don't see any reason without getting knee-deep in perl at this time why it's not extremely similar to what you already do. Are there some skeletons in the majordomo closet that might make it harder to do than to say ? :-) [...actually that sounds like a fun one to try to implement, but it's a fun-to-do rather than a I'm-bleeding-because-it-doesn't-exist for me at least and I just don't have the time now at least...] > > For instance, how would you parse: > > change list-managers brent@foo.com (Brent Chapman) chapman@bar.com > In this case, majordomo should not do anything clever like pulling a From: or Reply-To: header from the message. I was looking for something like "change-address my.old.address my.new.address" where the old address has to be validated as being 'existing' in the list. Again, any 'change' functionality needs to have the appropriate kicking to the warm body if *either* the add or delete requires approval on that list. -- ----------- Vince Skahan ------ vds7789@aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com ----------- One living dinosaur and it has to be Barney....lame ! lame ! lame ! lame ! "The Lame List" - Almost Live 7/4/93 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 23 06:12:14 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA05533; Fri, 23 Jul 93 06:12:14 GMT Received: from egypt.eng.umd.edu by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA05526; Thu, 22 Jul 93 23:12:06 PDT Received: by egypt.eng.umd.edu (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4) id AA14565; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 02:12:38 -0400 Rcpt to:mailed to majordomo-users@greatcircle.com Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 02:12:38 -0400 From: "Randall S. Winchester" Message-Id: <199307230612.AA14565@egypt.eng.umd.edu> To: sam@oxford.chez.sgi.com, tsarna@endicor.com Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk If you are mainly concerned with equivilence in the domains you manage or are very familiar with, then it should not be too tough to hack in a comparison table to check against. Heh, this might be your oportunity to learn Perl.... > From Majordomo-Users-Owner@greatcircle.com Thu Jul 22 11:21:10 1993 > To: tsarna@endicor.com (Ty Sarna) > Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com > Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? > From: Sam Leffler > Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@greatcircle.com > > To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM > Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? > From: tsarna@endicor.com (Ty Sarna) > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 07:58:22 GMT > > In article <9307211639.AA15571@oxford.chez.sgi.com> Sam Leffler writes: > > I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because > > user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. > > For example, > > > > sam@flake.asd.sgi.com > > > > asks to be subscribed as > > > > sam@asd.sgi.com > > > > Is there a problem with having Majordomo automatically recognize > > and accept these cases (other than the obvious one that some sites > > might be so stupid as have duplicate account names in different > > subdomains)? I figure you'll need some control over the stripping > > Now wait just a minute here! Do you really believe that it's stupid to > have, say, bob@brooks.af.mil and bob@holmstead.af.mil refer to > different people? Do you think it's really reasonable for someone the > size of that Air Force to keep account names unique across the entire > world? > > I know that many UNIX-based software packages will not work > properly if user names are duplicated within "administrative > domains". I'm not condoning it; but in my experience it does > wonderous things to license servers, accounting systems, etc. > If subdomains are "compartmentalized" so that they only communicate > by restricted channels then it can work. > > For that matter, endicor.com and GreatCircle.COM are both subdomains of > .com. You're saying it's stupid to have non-unique names across two > entirely seperate companies? > > Think about what I'm trying to deal with. In many companies > subdomains do not reflect geographical setup but rather > organizational setup (not that it especially matters). When > the whole organization is then placed behind a firewall the > administrators frequently rewrite mail headers to insure the > internal subdomain structure is not visible. This way when > the next internal reorg happens and people are shuffled, the > outside world doesn't need to know about it. My experience > indicates that a large majority of the corporate subdomains > are meaningless to the Majordomo package and so I'd like to > not have to do extra work to deal with them. Obviously there > must be a mechanism to override this facility--or perhaps you > stop reading my mail after I found your hotspot :-) > > Sam > > > > From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 23 13:49:42 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA06530; Fri, 23 Jul 93 13:49:42 GMT Received: from relay2.UU.NET by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA06522; Fri, 23 Jul 93 06:49:17 PDT Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA07762; Fri, 23 Jul 93 09:50:04 -0400 Received: from rayssd.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 094813.12391; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:48:13 EDT Received: from fluke.ssd.ray.com by rayssd.ssd.ray.com with SMTP id AA26017 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:41:30 -0400 Received: by fluke.ssd.ray.com id AA16005 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com); Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:41:29 -0400 Message-Id: <199307231341.AA16005@fluke.ssd.ray.com> From: dhb@ssd.ray.com (David H. Brierley) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:41:29 -0400 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.2 4/12/91) To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In the original message that started this great debate, Sam Leffler writes: > I get lots of Majordomo requests forwarded to me because > user@host.domain asks that user@domain be subscribed/unsubscribed. > For example, > > sam@flake.asd.sgi.com > > asks to be subscribed as > > sam@asd.sgi.com Instead of answering Sam's question, this immediately transformed into a debate about having unique user names across subdomains and administrative control and other nonsense. Ignore all that nonsense. If the username portion of the address is identical (i.e. "sam" == "sam") and the host name to be subscribed matches the tail of the sending host (i.e. "asd.sgi.com" matches the last part of "flake.asd.sgi.com"), then assume the user knows what they are doing and automatically approve it. Just to make sure that everything is in fact ok, maybe the confirmation message that goes back should be sent to the address being added and it should indicate what address submitted the request. If you want the program to be really paranoid, include instructions on how to unsubscribe from the list. This is not making any assumptions about unique user name or administrative control or anything else along those lines. It does make the assumption that if the user took the time to type in a different address then the user probably knows what they are doing. I know that sometimes this requires a rather large leap of faith but just processing a subscribe request requires a (somewhat smaller) leap of faith anyway. -- David H. Brierley; Raytheon Submarine Signal Division Work: dhb@ssd.ray.com Home: dave@galaxia.network23.com From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 23 18:19:00 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA07048; Fri, 23 Jul 93 18:19:00 GMT Received: from yonge.csri.toronto.edu by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA07041; Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:18:47 PDT Received: from alias by yonge.csri.toronto.edu with UUCP id <14569>; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 14:19:41 -0400 Received: from dino.alias.com by barney.alias.com with SMTP id AA28536 (5.65a/IDA-1.4.2 for majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM); Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:09:59 -0400 Received: by dino.alias.com id AA14936 (5.65a/IDA-1.4.2 for majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM); Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:09:57 -0400 From: chk@alias.com (C. Harald Koch) Message-Id: <9307231809.AA14936@dino.alias.com> Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? To: sam@oxford.chez.sgi.com (Sam Leffler) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 15:09:55 -0400 Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <9307221521.AA18237@oxford.chez.sgi.com> from "Sam Leffler" at Jul 22, 93 11:21:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL8] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1894 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Think about what I'm trying to deal with. In many companies > subdomains do not reflect geographical setup but rather > organizational setup (not that it especially matters). When > the whole organization is then placed behind a firewall the > administrators frequently rewrite mail headers to insure the > internal subdomain structure is not visible. IMHO, This is the correct solution to the problem. I realize that you're trying to deal with the opposite end, i.e. people are sending you subscription requests for administrative addresses with mail headers that contain physical addresses. IMHO, their mail systems are broken. It is my opinion that Majordomo should not try to second-guess the structure of hierarchical domain names, for the simple reason that you can't assume anything about the physical (or even logical) structure of an organization from the domain names. Instead, each organization should perform the appropriate level of "hidden-hosts" processing on all outbound mail (i.e. @dino.alias.com becomes simply @alias.com on all mail outbound from Alias). Only the organization knows what level of processing is "correct", so only the organization should be doing it. For example; it's more efficient for most American users to send mail to than it is to send mail to ; the latter requires that the message traverse the Toronto<->Ithica CA*Net link twice. I'm the only person who can tell you that; you could not infer that simply from our domain names. I know, this doesn't solve your problem... Sorry! :-) -- C. Harald Koch, Network Analyst | "Heredity is what sets the parents of a Alias Research Inc. Toronto, ON | teen-ager wondering about each other." chk@alias.com | -- Laurence J. Peter chk@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca | (author of The Peter Principle) From Majordomo-Users-Owner Sat Jul 24 23:07:10 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10781; Sat, 24 Jul 93 23:07:10 GMT Received: from nic.cic.net by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10774; Sat, 24 Jul 93 16:07:01 PDT Received: by nic.cic.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05378; Sat, 24 Jul 93 19:08:09 EDT Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 18:50:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Ron Emaus Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <9307231809.AA14936@dino.alias.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Jul 1993, C. Harald Koch wrote: > > Think about what I'm trying to deal with. In many companies > > subdomains do not reflect geographical setup but rather > > organizational setup (not that it especially matters). When > > the whole organization is then placed behind a firewall the > > administrators frequently rewrite mail headers to insure the > > internal subdomain structure is not visible. > > IMHO, This is the correct solution to the problem. > I just started using Majordomo this week - and I'm getting all kinds of approval requests for an open list. I vote for the idea that you simply approve all requests to join an open list. Then if John.Smith@Terminator.UBury.edu wants to subscribe Mary.Smythe@UBury.edu, send Mary the welcome message and tell her how to unsubscribe herself. Oh, and tell her that John.Smith@Terminator.UBury.edu subscribed her. Brent can implement this kind of solution without redesigining the addressing and routing of mail. And it will make me more productive at work next week. Otherwise I'll go back to cutting and pasting. Alternatively, take away the address option from the subscribe command and implement a new command called approve for use by managers of closed lists. ******************************************************* Ron Emaus remaus@cic.net CICNet 313.998.6419 Voice 2901 Hubbard, Pod A 313.998.6105 FAX PO Box 134009 Ann Arbor, MI 48113-4009 ******************************************************* From Majordomo-Users-Owner Sat Jul 24 23:36:25 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10943; Sat, 24 Jul 93 23:36:25 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10935; Sat, 24 Jul 93 16:36:13 PDT Message-Id: <9307242336.AA10935@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: Ron Emaus Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: automatic handling of subdomains? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 24 Jul 1993 18:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 16:36:11 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # # On Fri, 23 Jul 1993, C. Harald Koch wrote: # # > > Think about what I'm trying to deal with. In many companies # > > subdomains do not reflect geographical setup but rather # > > organizational setup (not that it especially matters). When # > > the whole organization is then placed behind a firewall the # > > administrators frequently rewrite mail headers to insure the # > > internal subdomain structure is not visible. # > # > IMHO, This is the correct solution to the problem. # > # I just started using Majordomo this week - and I'm getting all kinds of # approval requests for an open list. I vote for the idea that you simply # approve all requests to join an open list. Then if # John.Smith@Terminator.UBury.edu wants to subscribe Mary.Smythe@UBury.edu, # send Mary the welcome message and tell her how to unsubscribe herself. # Oh, and tell her that John.Smith@Terminator.UBury.edu subscribed her. # # Brent can implement this kind of solution without redesigining the # addressing and routing of mail. And it will make me more productive at # work next week. Otherwise I'll go back to cutting and pasting. That's already there. It's called an "auto" list. Just create a ".auto" file along with all the other ".*" files, and Majordomo will automatically approve all requests that would otherwise require list-owner approval. # Alternatively, take away the address option from the subscribe command and # implement a new command called approve for use by managers of closed lists. Huh? What do you think the "approve" command that's already there does? -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Tue Jul 27 00:07:28 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA17651; Tue, 27 Jul 93 00:07:28 GMT Received: from ub-gate.UB.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA17644; Mon, 26 Jul 93 17:07:19 PDT Received: from bolis.UUCP by ub-gate.UB.com (4.1/SMI-4.1[UB-1.8]) id AA05722; Mon, 26 Jul 93 17:08:03 PDT Received: by hock.bolis.sf-bay.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0oKc6B-000307C; Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:36 PDT Message-Id: From: Alan Millar Subject: Re: mailing list server for linux To: vince@victrola.wa.com Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 16:36:53 -0800 (PDT) Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <22s1ef$6cr@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU> from "Vince Skahan" at Jul 24, 93 03:10:07 pm Reply-To: Alan Millar X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2319 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Verily didst Vince Skahan rise up and spake thus: > Just in case people are looking for a spectacularly good program suite to > run one or more mailing lists with very little manual intervention, I've > been able to put up the 'Majordomo' mail server under Linux with zero > problems on my system here, which runs sendmail5.65c+IDA from the binary > distribution located on sunsite.unc.edu. I'm running Linux with the SLS binaries for SMail 3.1.28 and perl 4.035. Majordomo works like a charm for administrative duties, but I had to do a little more work for the list distribution. I had a problem with 'resend.pl' which gave the message "Malformed cmd links" each time it ran. The problem is somehow caused by there being a subroutine called "sendmail" in both 'resend.pl' and 'majordomo.pl'. Commenting out the one in 'resend.pl' fixed it. Am I the only one who has come across this? Is this a problem in Perl 4.035 (and/or maybe the copy distributed with Linux) or did I get a bad/older copy of resend.pl? I was using Brent's sample aliases-file entry to invoke 'resend.pl'. I found that SMail 3 did not like the three-line quoted string until I put backslash continuation characters at the end of the lines within the string. If you add Majordomo to the Linux Mail/News FAQ, this should maybe be mentioned. Also, I didn't like the fact that when a local user submitted a message to a list, it was added to the archive file without domain names in the headers. What I mean is, the archive file had "To: list" and "From: user" when what I wanted was "To: list@sitename" and "From: user@sitename". To fix this, I had to install a copy of the SMail "transports" file and change the "local" flag to "-local" on the "append_file" driver. It wasn't a hard fix, but the SLS distribution of SMail didn't *have* the transports file by default (using just the compiled-in defaults) which could make it hard for the average Linux user to track down. After those fixes, though, I'm quite happy with the results. - Alan ---- ,,,, Alan Millar amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.org __oo \ System Administrator =___/ And Moses said, "Oh, Lord, please send someone else to do it!" -Exodus 4:13 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Wed Jul 28 05:51:43 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA22381; Wed, 28 Jul 93 05:51:43 GMT Received: from localhost by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA22373; Tue, 27 Jul 93 22:51:33 PDT Message-Id: <9307280551.AA22373@mycroft.GreatCircle.COM> To: Alan Millar Cc: vince@victrola.wa.com, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: mailing list server for linux In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 26 Jul 1993 16:36:53 -0800 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 22:51:32 -0700 From: Brent Chapman Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk # I had a problem with 'resend.pl' which gave the message "Malformed cmd # links" each time it ran. The problem is somehow caused by there being # a subroutine called "sendmail" in both 'resend.pl' and 'majordomo.pl'. # Commenting out the one in 'resend.pl' fixed it. Am I the only one who has # come across this? Is this a problem in Perl 4.035 (and/or maybe the # copy distributed with Linux) or did I get a bad/older copy of resend.pl? So _that's_ what's been causing that! Everybody has been getting the "malformed command links" message, and until now nobody could figure out why. OK, I'll file this as a bug and fix the subroutine names in the next release. Thanks! -Brent -- Brent Chapman Great Circle Associates Brent@GreatCircle.COM 1057 West Dana Street +1 415 962 0841 Mountain View, CA 94041 From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 30 15:25:21 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA09414; Fri, 30 Jul 93 15:25:21 GMT Received: from ub-gate.UB.com by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA09402; Fri, 30 Jul 93 08:25:10 PDT Received: from bolis.UUCP by ub-gate.UB.com (4.1/SMI-4.1[UB-1.8]) id AA28838; Fri, 30 Jul 93 08:26:29 PDT Received: by hock.bolis.sf-bay.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0oLwCb-0002wkC; Fri, 30 Jul 93 08:17 PDT Message-Id: From: Alan Millar Subject: Majordomo and SMail3 To: brent@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 08:16:59 -0800 (PDT) Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Reply-To: Alan Millar X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1923 Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I have had an interesting problem sneak up on me with SMail3. It turns out that if you have an alias :include: file which has some addresses in angle brackets "your name " and some without "user@site (your name)", then the ones without the brackets will be ignored. This is caused by SMail3 thinking that the non-bracketed addresses are comments to the bracketed addresses, because the new-line separating them does not have enough significance. The simplest fix is to put a comma at the end of each line. (A trailing comma on the last line is not a problem.) I have a small patch to Majordomo which fixes this quite easily. If you are using SMail3, add this to majordomo.cf: $alias_separator = " ,"; If you are not using SMail3, leave it out. *** majordomo.orig/majordomo Wed Jul 21 21:17:01 1993 --- majordomo/majordomo Thu Jul 29 09:15:07 1993 *************** *** 162,170 **** &log("DUPLICATE subscribe $clean_list $subscriber"); } else { if (-e "$listdir/$clean_list.strip") { ! print LIST &valid_addr($subscriber), "\n"; } else { ! print LIST $subscriber, "\n"; } print REPLY "Succeeded.\n"; &log("subscribe $clean_list $subscriber"); --- 190,198 ---- &log("DUPLICATE subscribe $clean_list $subscriber"); } else { if (-e "$listdir/$clean_list.strip") { ! print LIST &valid_addr($subscriber), $alias_separator, "\n"; } else { ! print LIST $subscriber, $alias_separator, "\n"; } print REPLY "Succeeded.\n"; &log("subscribe $clean_list $subscriber"); If $alias_separator is not defined, then it will work exactly as before. - Alan ---- ,,,, Alan Millar amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.org __oo \ System Administrator =___/ Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! -Wizard of Oz From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 30 20:45:05 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10570; Fri, 30 Jul 93 20:45:05 GMT Received: from stein.u.washington.edu by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10561; Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:44:58 PDT Received: by stein.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04268; Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:46:16 -0700 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:46:16 -0700 From: Micah Anderson Message-Id: <9307302046.AA04268@stein.u.washington.edu> X-Sender: micah@stein.u.washington.edu To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I am getting some strange errors with my aliases file, when I do a checkaliases -a on my alias file I get these errors: Problems with the Alias File For alias file "/com/mailer/aliases" checked on wombat.gnu.ai.mit.edu: Mail for alias they-might-be-d"Marc I. Damelin" " From Majordomo-Users-Owner Fri Jul 30 20:46:52 1993 Return-Path: Received: by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10596; Fri, 30 Jul 93 20:46:52 GMT Received: from stein.u.washington.edu by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/Brent-921015) id AA10589; Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:46:44 PDT Received: by stein.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04551; Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:48:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:48:01 -0700 From: Micah Anderson Message-Id: <9307302048.AA04551@stein.u.washington.edu> X-Sender: micah@stein.u.washington.edu To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Strange aliases Sender: Majordomo-Users-Owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I am getting some strange aliases, ones that dont go through our checkalias' program, this is what majordomo is putting in (error messages from checkaliases -a) Problems with the Alias File For alias file "/com/mailer/aliases" checked on wombat.gnu.ai.mit.edu: Mail for alias they-might-be-digested --> ""Daniel M. Felsenheld" <0003336353@mc imail.com>". Unterminated quoted text. Mail for alias they-might-be-dains special "<". Mail for alias they-might-be-digested --> "". Bad RFC822 local-part "