From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 00:13:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:08:17 +0200
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: claudio minutella <minutella@tic.ch>
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
Cc: Emilio Fischman <fischman@mindspring.com>
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At 10:12 31.08.98 -0400, you wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 at 14:08:03 +0200 "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
>
>>I have read thru the FAQ and there are still some commands in the
>>configuration file I would like to learn more about. Where on the
>>'net can I find a Majordomo manual.
>
>	My feelings exactly.  Come on, guys, it's been two weeks since St. Einar
>asked that question and I've been eagerly scanning this list for answers.
>I, for one, am a newbie who DOES want to read the fantastic manual.  I've
>read the FAQ, the "explanations" (HA!) included in the config file, the
>README file and the posts on this and its sister lists.  I HOPE there is a
>manual that clarifies things a bit.  I am not a programmer or computer
>person, I'm just a user who wants to run a list properly.  Where, oh, where
>IS the Majordomo Manual??

indeed, i am also desperatly seeking of a *REAL* documentation of majordomo.
i am also reading o'reilly's book, but i miss the important part, which
explains me the working of majordomo. i am not programmer, but sysop on
several unix systems and had never, really never, such a bad documentation
on a freewaere product. 

thanks ... claudio

------
claudio minutella                           mail : minutella@tic.ch
tic the internet company ag                 www  : http://www.tic.ch
nidfeldstrasse 5                            tel  : +41 41 318 36 81
CH - 6010 kriens                            fax  : +41 41 318 36 86
------
what is essential is invisible to the eye (antoine de saint-exupery)
............................ why use WINDOWS, when there is a door ?

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 01:54:57 1998
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From: Marc.Haber-lists@gmx.de (Marc Haber)
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: majordomo-<listname>-outgoing
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:44:15 GMT
Organization: posting from University of Karlsruhe, Germany
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.980901031101.1040F-100000@packfish.gateway.net.hk>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.980901031101.1040F-100000@packfish.gateway.net.hk>
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On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 03:23:48 +0800 (HKT), you wrote:
>I have enabled "restrict_post" in my mailing lists, so that non
>subscribers won't be able to post messages to the lists.  I followed the
>instructions to setup the majordomo 1.94 on my Unix box, which runs with
>Qmail.  No spam message can go through to the list for one year, until
>today.  Somebody tried to post a message to the address
>majordomo-<listname>-outgoing@mydomain directly, instead of the
>traditional default list address <listname>@mydomain.  The setting
>"restrict_post" will no longer working if someone sent a message to
>majordomo-xxx-outgoing directly. =20
>
>Does anyone know the solution for this problem?  Thank you very much in=20
>advance.

Well, the fastest way is to rename listname-outgoing to something less
obvious so that the spammers will have to think (which usually fails).

The more elegant way is to ensure that listname-outgoing is only
available for a locally running majordomo. This can either be
accomplished by delivering majordomo mail to a differently configured
instance of your MTA that knows about listname-outgoing, but would
only accept mail from majordomo or by configuring qmail in a way that
it only accepts mail to listname-outgoing from majordomo.

<exim-plug>
With exim, this can be done with a specialized aliasfile director in
about ten lines of configuration. This is also documented in the FAQ.
</exim-plug>

Greetings
Marc

--=20
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! =
-----
Marc Haber          |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im =
Header
Karlsruhe, Germany  |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | Fon: *49 721 966 32=
 15
Nordisch by Nature  | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31=
 29


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 02:12:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:54:25 +0200 (MEST)
From: Thomas Marmetschke <tom@krush.net>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: reply-to dont work :(
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980901105111.27880B-100000@lucky.krush.net>
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Hi,
i have a listname.config with :

        # reply_to             [word] () <resend,digest>
        # Put a reply-to header with value <value> into the outgoing
        # message. If the token $SENDER is used, then the address of the
        # sender is used as the value of the reply-to header. This is the
        # value of the reply-to header for digest lists.
reply_to            =   waternet

or 

reply_to	=	waternet@krush.net

nothing seems to work when i edit the listname.conf file(s)

does anyone can help me?

And please dont say "Please look at the Archives from majordomo"-- 

thx




From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 04:41:17 1998
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	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:29:39 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:29:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Smith <smithd@blkbox.com>
To: Leng Yee <lengyee@mbox4.singnet.com.sg>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Clearing old archives
In-Reply-To: <00fc01bdd5b9$62d90de0$68214b0a@catalyst.nii.ncb.gov.sg>
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On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Leng Yee wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I've just set up a mailing list in digest format and so far so good.
> 
> However, how do I delete off the archives (the listname.archives.yymm files)
> once the digests are sent out? I've checked the documentation but none
> really address this situation.

add a cron job to delete them.  I reccomend something like this:

0 0 * * * find <digest archive directories> -name 'v[0-9][0-9].*' -mtime +
5 -exec rm -f {} \; 

that is: at midnight, find the files in the digest archive directories
that begin with 'v', two numbers and a period and are more than 5
days old and remove them.  

Specfics, like how long to keep the and when to run it (midnight is
usually a popular time, like 1:32 or something may be better).

This would need to run as the majordomo user or root.


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 04:55:52 1998
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	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:50:12 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:50:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Smith <smithd@blkbox.com>
To: claudio minutella <minutella@tic.ch>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, Emilio Fischman <fischman@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980901090817.00c69358@mail.tic.ch>
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On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, claudio minutella wrote:

> At 10:12 31.08.98 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> indeed, i am also desperatly seeking of a *REAL* documentation of majordomo.
> i am also reading o'reilly's book, but i miss the important part, which
> explains me the working of majordomo. i am not programmer, but sysop on
> several unix systems and had never, really never, such a bad documentation
> on a freewaere product. 

Well, as this is a freeware project, if you don't like it, help make
something better.  Much of the current effort is going into the 2.0
release, and the majordomo-workers list has dicussions on that version,
including documentation.

Acually this is a common problem with freeware, and large projects have
the biggest problem as few people really want to do documentation, which
can be as hard adn as much time as writing the programs in the first
place, even longer if you have to figure out how it works first.

There are a number of users who have written something on how majordomo
works or aids is getting it to work easier, including my scripts to create
lists <http://www.blkbox.com/~smithd/majordomo/> and others
<http://o2.towery.com/~ernestm/admin/admin.html>, the faq
<http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/majordomo-faq.html>, and the archive
of this mailing list <http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo-users/>.


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 05:08:51 1998
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Message-ID: <35EBD497.E176809C@online.edvg.co.at>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 13:03:51 +0200
From: n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at (Niels Hansa)
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MIME-Version: 1.0
To: locki@ozemail.com.au (locki)
CC: <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: networking
References: <004b01bdd535$80b57300$90b66ccb@locki-s>
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--------------ms2EF0157BF4578BC21CD95EE9
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locki wrote:
> 
> how does networking work?
> 

Please turn to http://www.winfiles.com/.
There is a Tips&Tricks icon, where you con find all the information you
need. With windows it is pretty easy to have a small network of say 2 or
3 PCs.

cu,
Niels
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From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 06:17:25 1998
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:01:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: reply-to dont work :(
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980901105111.27880B-100000@lucky.krush.net>
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On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Thomas Marmetschke wrote:

:And please dont say "Please look at the Archives from majordomo"-- 

Uh, why the heck not?  This topic gets beaten to death at least once a
month.

Patrick


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 06:30:13 1998
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From: RAFAEL SEGOVIA VILCHEZ <dcasals@infomail.lacaixa.es>
Subject: Problems with writeconfig
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Hallo all,
I have installed the version 1.94.4 of majordomo in a Linux
machine.Everything has been working good till now that I have this problem:

When I use comands where majordomom has to create a file like writeconfig it
creates it as bin and permission 660 and I dont undestand why.

For exmaple:
rw-rw----   bin    bin     mylist.config.



Could it be something reltionated with wrapper?

I really need to solve this problem and I would appreciate any kind of
suggerences.Thank you very much in advance.


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 06:45:35 1998
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Message-ID: <35EBEF89.D2C16B04@mcdonald-tech.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 07:58:49 -0500
From: Jeremy Collins <jeremyc@mcdonald-tech.com>
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--------------370DA9E504896C8E97B86078
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Thanks Alan, and thanks also to Esposito.

I set the owner of wrapper to root, and it still fails with exactly the
same problems as described in my previous email.

I also tried with the group-owner of wrapper set to "domo", also as
"daemon" and also as "wheel".  All group-owners were tried with perms on
wrapper set to both 4755 (suid), and 6755 (suid,sgid).

At this point, should I just blow out the majordomo directory, and try a
rebuild and reinstall?

jcc

Alan V. Shackelford wrote:
> 
> wrapper needs to be made by, installed by, setuid, setgid, owned by and
> group owned by root.
> Period. It took me weeks to figure this out. You are correct, the docs are
> not clear when it comes to this.
> 
> Alan V. Shackelford alan_s@shaknet.clark.net
> One net to rule them all, one net to find them
> one net to bring them all, and using Unix bind them.
> 
> <> -----Original Message-----
> <> From: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
> <> [mailto:majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> <> Collins
> <> Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 12:54 PM
> <> To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
> <> Subject: MD newbie, Unknown Mailer Error 126
> <>
> <>
> <> Ok y'all, I'm a Majordomo newbie.  I've read the docs, read the FAQ,
> <> searched the archives, and I still can't get the thing to work.
> <>
> <> Quick info:
> <> ===========
> <> uname -a:
> <> ---------
> <> FreeBSD thebox.vox.org 2.2.7-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE
> <> #0: Wed Jul
> <> 22 08:48:29 GMT 1998
> <> root@builder.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC  i386
> <>
> <> Sendmail 8.9.1a
> <>
> <> perl -v:
> <> --------
> <> This is perl, version 5.004_04 built for i386-freebsd
> <>
> <> ./wrapper config-test reports everything is ok, run as any user.
> <>
> <> I know I've messed around with the file permissions, so
> <> they're probably
> <> not "stock" as per the installation.  Also, IMO, the
> <> documentation and
> <> FAQ are somewhat vague on what files need to be set to what
> <> permissions.  A simple ls -al of a properly working
> <> majordomo directory
> <> and the lists directory would help a lot.
> <>
> <> ls -al of /usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4:
> <> --------------------------------------
> <> drwxr-x---   6 majordom  domo     512 Aug 31 11:41 .
> <> drwxr-xr-x  13 root      wheel    512 Aug 20 19:12 ..
> <> -rw-rw----   1 majordom  domo       6 Aug 31 10:52
> <> .majordomo_registration
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo     513 Aug 20 19:27 Log
> <> drwxrwx---   2 majordom  domo     512 Aug 20 19:07 Tools
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo    5234 Aug 20 19:07 archive2.pl
> <> drwxrwx---   2 majordom  domo     512 Aug 20 19:07 bin
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo    2795 Aug 20 19:07 bounce-remind
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo   10671 Aug 20 19:07 config-test
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo   49673 Aug 20 19:07 config_parse.pl
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo   13031 Aug 20 19:07 digest
> <> drwxr-x---   2 majordom  domo     512 Aug 31 10:37 lists
> <> -rwsrwxr-x   1 majordom  domo   64251 Aug 20 19:07 majordomo
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo   10507 Aug 31 11:14 majordomo.cf
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo   23763 Aug 20 19:07 majordomo.pl
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo     137 Aug 20 19:07
> <> majordomo_version.pl
> <> drwxrwx---   4 majordom  domo     512 Aug 20 19:07 man
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo    3532 Aug 20 19:07 request-answer
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo   29520 Aug 20 19:07 resend
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo   10462 Aug 20 19:07 sample.cf
> <> -rwxrwx---   1 majordom  domo    8060 Aug 20 19:07 shlock.pl
> <> -rwsr-xr-x   1 majordom  domo   12993 Aug 20 19:09 wrapper
> <>
> <> ls -al of /usr/local/majordom-1.94.4/lists
> <> ------------------------------------------
> <> drwxr-x---  2 majordom  domo    512 Aug 31 10:37 .
> <> drwxr-x---  6 majordom  domo    512 Aug 31 11:41 ..
> <> -rwxr-x---  1 majordom  domo     35 Aug 31 10:43 bawxadmin
> <> -rwxr-x---  1 majordom  domo  16107 Aug 20 19:24 bawxadmin.config
> <> -rwxr-x---  1 majordom  domo     36 Aug 20 19:14 bawxadmin.info
> <>
> <> User "majordom" is a member of both groups "daemon" and "domo"
> <>
> <> Snip from /etc/aliases:
> <> -----------------------
> <> majordomo:  "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
> <> majordomo-owner: bono
> <> owner-majordomo: bono
> <> bawxadmin:
> <> "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l
> <> bawxadmin bawxadmin-list"
> <> bawxadmin-list:
> <> :include:/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/bawxadmin
> <> owner-bawxadmin:        bono
> <> bawxadmin-owner:        bono
> <>
> <> The Log file has not been touched, not logging anything to
> <> do with the
> <> problems.
> <>
> <> =============
> <> Ok, everything I do to try to use the thing *fails* with an Unknown
> <> mailer error 126.
> <>
> <> echo lists | sendmail -v majordomo:
> <> -----------------------------------
> <> majordomo... aliased to
> <> "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
> <> "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"... Connecting to
> <> prog...
> <> "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"... unknown
> <> mailer error
> <> 126
> <> /home/bono/dead.letter... Saved message in /home/bono/dead.letter
> <>
> <> echo test | sendmail -v bawxadmin:
> <> ----------------------------------
> <> bawxadmin... aliased to
> <> "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l
> <> bawxadmin bawxadmin-list"
> <> "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l bawxadmin
> <> bawxadmin-list"... Connecting to prog...
> <> "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l bawxadmin
> <> bawxadmin-list"... unknown mailer error 126
> <> /home/bono/dead.letter... Saved message in /home/bono/dead.letter
> <>
> <>
> <>
> <> HELP!
> <>
> <> jcc
--------------370DA9E504896C8E97B86078
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Jeremy Collins
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

begin:          vcard
fn:             Jeremy Collins
n:              Collins;Jeremy
org:            MTI MIS
email;internet: jeremyc@mcdonald-tech.com
title:          Not User Friendly
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: TRUE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard


--------------370DA9E504896C8E97B86078--


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 06:57:10 1998
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	(envelope-from brian@monkman.org)
From: "Brian Monkman"<brian@monkman.org>
Reply-to: brian@monkman.org
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 98 09:53:31 +400
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
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I am also a "newbie" to Majordomo and I am also not a programmer.
However, I do believe in dealing with the resources at hand. Majordomo
is not commercialware - so any lack of resources is due to lack of
time or interest or need.

I have found the the O'Reilly and Associates on mail list
administration is quite helpful. Also, the searchable archives
at http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo-users/ is also proven to be
an ivaluable source of information. If you are going to use a
freeware program then you are going to have to be prepareed to
do some work. 

Brian Monkman


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 07:12:33 1998
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:03:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@nassau.pegasus.cranfield.ac.uk
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Thomas Marmetschke <tom@krush.net>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: reply-to dont work :(
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IF you find that things that you set in the list.config file don't
actually seem to matter or do anything, chances are you are not piping
mail to the list through resend.

If your alias for the list is something like

 list:  :include: /path/to/mddir/lists/list

Then you are not using resend, while if it is something like

 list: "|/path/to/mddir/wrapper resend -l list list-outgoing"

then what you describe remains a mystery.

-j

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Thomas Marmetschke wrote:

> i have a listname.config with :
> 
>         # reply_to             [word] () <resend,digest>
>         # Put a reply-to header with value <value> into the outgoing
>         # message. If the token $SENDER is used, then the address of the
>         # sender is used as the value of the reply-to header. This is the
>         # value of the reply-to header for digest lists.
> reply_to            =   waternet
> 
> or 
> 
> reply_to	=	waternet@krush.net
> 
> nothing seems to work when i edit the listname.conf file(s)
> 
> does anyone can help me?
> 
> And please dont say "Please look at the Archives from majordomo"-- 
> 
> thx
> 
> 
> 
> 

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 08:39:06 1998
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Message-ID: <35EC0FEC.2BFED9D7@ctg.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 11:17:00 -0400
From: Leon Rothenberg <leon.rothenberg@ctg.com>
Organization: Computer Task Group
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: majordomo-<listname>-outgoing
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.980901031101.1040F-100000@packfish.gateway.net.hk>
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Rino Lam wrote:
> 
> today.  Somebody tried to post a message to the address
> majordomo-<listname>-outgoing@mydomain directly, instead of the
> traditional default list address <listname>@mydomain.  The setting
> 

I have just encountered the same problem while testing/reconfiguring a
list.

       test:    "|/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/wrapper resend -l test
test-list"
       test-list:  :include:/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/lists/test
       owner-test:   you,
       test-owner:   you
       test-request: "|/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/wrapper majordomo -l
test"

This example, taken from the 'newlist' file shows a properly configured
set of aliases, however the alias "test-list" seems to be a fairly
obvious opportunity for spam exploitation.  It bypasses resend and our
dear <list>.config settings.  The only solution I can think of off the
top of my head is to make the ":include:" alias something cryptic, so
that potential spammers would have trouble guessing it:

       test:    "|/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/wrapper resend -l test
test-zzoutgo898"
       test-zzoutgo898:  :include:/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/lists/test

Are we missing something obvious here?

-- 
Leon Rothenberg
Mission Critical Systems, 
Computer Task Group

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 09:25:10 1998
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From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" <rogerk@QueerNet.ORG>
To: Leon Rothenberg <leon.rothenberg@ctg.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: majordomo-<listname>-outgoing
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On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Leon Rothenberg wrote:
> Are we missing something obvious here?

Yes, the FAQ.  It advises:
- using an arbitrary string like "-fgfgfdg" rather than "-outgoing"
- disabling VRFY and EXPN
- possibly using TLB, which does not require an outgoing alias

-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE     rogerk@QueerNet.ORG     urgent: rogerk-page@QueerNet.ORG
2215-R Market Street #576         San Francisco, CA 94114       +1 415 ALL-ARFF
"There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!"       -- Paul Rudnick


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 09:40:42 1998
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	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Message-Id: <199809011627.JAA18483@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
To: smithd@blkbox.com (David Smith)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980901063013.3287B-100000@blkbox.com> from "David Smith" at Sep 1, 98 06:50:12 am
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David Smith said:
> 
> Acually this is a common problem with freeware, and large projects have
> the biggest problem as few people really want to do documentation, which
> can be as hard adn as much time as writing the programs in the first
> place, even longer if you have to figure out how it works first.

More importantly, I view this as a problem relatively unique to 
Majordomo in the "open source" world, but one that others will
eventually have to face. I personally thought that Majordomo docs
were no worse than sendmail, Perl, etc. But those are targetted at
techie audiences who can handle any gaps in information.

Majordomo is unique in that there is a guru component (the Unix 
admin who installs the s/w) and an end-user component (the novice
list owner). The docs may be fine for the sysadmin, but they are
severely lacking for list owners.

David is right that part of the problem is that the docs were
written by developers rather than real writers. For most other
tools, this has been sufficient. Open Source software has not really
ventured far into the end-user realm. But as more products float over
to the end-user side of the pool, the documentation problem will 
become more and more critical.

Perhaps a good model for Mj2 to aspire to is Apache, where not only
are the compile/install instructions fairly thorough, but every
single configuration file directive has ample descriptions and
cross-referencing. It's still not non-techie, but it does a good job
covering all the bases.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 12:10:54 1998
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From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bill Houle writes:

> But those are targetted at techie audiences who can handle any gaps in
> information.

*sigh*

This is really starting to get on my nerves.  Face it: installation and
maintenance of Majordomo is a 'techie' subject.  If you do not want to
learn 'techie' things, you have no business being in the machine room.  Get
out, and hire someone competant.

The ironic thing is that those who need drool-proof manuals are the ones
that don't read manuals.

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Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Charset: noconv

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TI4iKueC3z7z4I9pQ82fOyyVxHJZTAMmdZYGhK9mu9jMycTVTfLTpkn/mHmybJfB
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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke,
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / get away immediately. Seek shelter
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / and cover head.
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 16:00:41 1998
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From: chip@pcc.com (Chip Hart)
Subject: Digests and Message Footers
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:08:55 -0400 (EDT)
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	I've recently added a digest version of a list I run and
	everything seems to be working just fine...EXCEPT that *each* of
	the messages in the digest includes the standard footer from the
	un-digested list.  This, obviously, is annoying as well as a
	waste of bandwidth.

	The only thing I could find on this matter was a reference in
	the config files to an unused variable, digest_rm_footer.
	As advertised, it doesn't seem to help.

	Any aid is appreciated.  Thanks.

	[I have read and grepped and searched through all the
	documentation I can find for the answer to this puzzle, though
	I may have missed it.  I'm happy with a reference pointer as
	much as the solution.]

-- 
Chip Hart                           *                        chip @ pcc.com
Physicians's Computer Company       *              http://www.pcc.com/~chip
15 Pinecrest Drive                  *                     Work:800-722-7708
Essex Junction, VT  05452           *                     Fax: 802-872-8214

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 16:13:59 1998
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:56:10 -0600
From: Jim Savoy <savoy@hg.uleth.ca>
To: MAJORDOMO-USERS@GREATCIRCLE.COM
CC: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Message-ID: <009CB951.E234B8AB.25@hg.uleth.ca>
Subject: PPP (persistent punting problem) error
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Hello everyone:

              I have been getting a "punting to avoid mail loop" error
message for the past couple of weeks and can't imagine what I did to
create this (installed Majordomo in May and haven't had a problem until
now). I read through all of the mailing list archives for the past two
years, searching for the words "loop" and "punting" and have tried
everything. I even tried making majordomo a "trusted" user in sendmail.cf
(Jack Su suggested that) but nothing can stop the looping.

To demonstrate the problem, I have created a list called "cows" and 
purposely failed to create an archive directory for it (just so I can
get it to generate an error message). If I send mail to the list, the 
following error message gets sent to the Log file in the /lists directory 
(note: the message makes it to the members of the list), but the error 
message does not go to the owner of the list - just to the Log file):

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aug 31 15:41:26 amber.online.uleth.ca archive2.pl[3886]
 {/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/cows.archive/cows} ABORT 
 shlock: '/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/cows.archive' does not exist
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Cool. If this message was posted to the Log file once, and to the list owner 
once, that would be great. But I would imagine the looping that follows is 
meant for the list owner. but can't get to him for some reason.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aug 31 15:41:27 amber.online.uleth.ca majordomo[3892] 
     {majordomo@amber.online.uleth.ca} ABORT 
       majordomo@amber.online.uleth.ca punting to avoid mail loop.

(repeated indefinitely every 2 seconds)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Here are the details:

SunOS 5.5.1 Generic running on a Sun4u sparc Ultra 1
Majordomo version:  1.94.4
Perl version:       5.002
Sendmail version:   2.?   (can't figure out a way to get sendmail's
                          version, but I'm pretty sure it's very old -
                          someone told me 2.something).


Protection and ownership of files in main directory:

./opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4:

drwxr-x--x   7 majordomoother       1024 Aug 31 15:45 .
drwxr-xr-x   3 majordomoother        512 Aug 30 22:30 ..
-rw-rw----   1 majordomoother          6 Feb 26  1998 .majordomo_registration
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordomoother        512 Feb 26  1998 Tools
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother       5230 Feb 26  1998 archive2.pl
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordomoother        512 Feb 26  1998 bin
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother       2791 Feb 26  1998 bounce-remind
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      10667 Feb 26  1998 config-test
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      49673 Feb 26  1998 config_parse.pl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      13027 Feb 26  1998 digest
drwxrwx---   6 majordomoother       3072 Aug 31 15:41 lists
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      64247 Aug 31 15:43 majordomo
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother      10461 Feb 26  1998 majordomo.cf
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      23763 Feb 26  1998 majordomo.pl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother        137 Feb 26  1998 majordomo_version.pl
drwxr-xr-x   4 majordomoother        512 Feb 26  1998 man
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother       3528 Feb 26  1998 request-answer
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      29516 Feb 26  1998 resend
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother      10462 Feb 26  1998 sample.cf
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother       8060 Feb 26  1998 shlock.pl
-rwsr-xr-x   1 root     other       8056 Feb 26  1998 wrapper


Protection and ownership of cows-related files in the lists directory:

./lists:

-rw-rw-r--   1 majordomoother         34 Aug 31 15:39 cows
-rw-rw----   1 majordomoother       1295 Aug 31 15:34 cows.config
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother        148 Aug 31 15:36 cows.info
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother         90 Aug 31 15:25 cows.intro
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother         34 Aug 31 15:38 cows.rst

NOTE: wardtj@uleth.ca and savoy@uleth.ca are the only users in the cows 
      and cows.rst files (ie they are not empty files)


Relevant info from /etc/aliases:

#
majordomo:                 "|/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
owner-majordomo:           savoy@uleth.ca
majordomo-owner:           savoy@uleth.ca
#
cows:  "|/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l cows cows-outgoing"
cows-outgoing::include:/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/cows, cows-archive
owner-cows:  wardtj@uleth.ca
cows-owner:  wardtj@uleth.ca
cows-request: "|/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper request-answer cows"
cows-archive: "|/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper archive2.pl -f /opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/cows.archive/cows -m -a"
owner-cows-archive:  cows-owner
owner-cows-outgoing: cows-owner
cows-approval:  wardtj@uleth.ca
#

A few of the flags from cows.config:

reply_to            =
restrict_post       =   cows.rst
sender              =   owner-cows


The config-test file (run from a regular account) passes all tests. Can't
for the life of me figure out what is causing the looping. Any help would
be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 - jim -

PS I should add that amber.online is not our main mailer. We use Netscape
   mail on a machine called mercury.online to handle everything. I have
   created ldap aliases for each of the lists on mercury. So if someone
   were to send mail to cows@uleth.ca (the mailing list address), no such
   account would exist, but the alias would forward the mail to 
   cows@amber.online.uleth.ca, at which point majordomo would take over.


 - jim savoy -
 - university of lethbridge -
 - savoy@hg.uleth.ca -


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 19:10:38 1998
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:57:28 -0400
From: "Steven J. Sobol" <sjsobol@amethyst.nstc.com>
To: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Cc: David Smith <smithd@blkbox.com>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
References: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980901063013.3287B-100000@blkbox.com> <199809011627.JAA18483@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
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On Tue, Sep 01, 1998 at 09:27:36AM -0700, Bill Houle wrote:

> Perhaps a good model for Mj2 to aspire to is Apache, where not only
> are the compile/install instructions fairly thorough, but every
> single configuration file directive has ample descriptions and
> cross-referencing. It's still not non-techie, but it does a good job
> covering all the bases.

And you're talking about configuring a web server, something that most
non-techies are not going to do anyhow.


-- 
North Shore Technologies Corporation, Cleveland, Ohio 1.888.480.INET
Steve Sobol/President, Webmaster, Senior Programmer, Customer Service Guru :) 

"You know, I've decided lizards aren't too smart."
   --Me, to "Junior", one of my iguanas

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 20:54:06 1998
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Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:46:19 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <x7soibwt6l.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com> from "Rich Pieri" at Sep 1, 98 03:04:34 pm
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Lordy, lordy, did anyone even bother to read what I said? Maybe I
was speaking in tongues...

At 09:57 PM 9/1/98 -0400, Steven J. Sobol wrote:
>
>And you're talking about configuring a web server, something that most
>non-techies are not going to do anyhow.

I never claimed Apache was an end-user tool. My point was that it
was extremely well-documented, all the way down to each tiny little
config file directive. Majordomo has decent compile/install 
instructions, but the documentation could be better for the config
file settings and their full implications.

Rich Pieri said:
> 
> This is really starting to get on my nerves.  Face it: installation and
> maintenance of Majordomo is a 'techie' subject.

Majordomo *installation* is a techie subject. Best left to sysadmins,
the documentation can be as incomplete as possible and 90% of the
audience should be able to cope. 

But the administration of lists is most certainly not a techie subject.
It may have been in the past, but times (and the user base) are
changing. Sure, people are having problems with the wrapper perms
and aliases. But just as many are asking about digest_rm_footer,
welcome, and reply_to. A lot of the people that are asking for manuals
are the end-users, not the sysadmins.



If this is the disposition that we are going to project for Majordomo,
then all you end users out there listening might as well stop waiting
for Mj2 and move to SmartList, Listserv or Lyris; at least they know
who their customers are and can provide a little hand-holding without
copping a 1970s "you mean you can't write a device driver in your
sleep?!?" attitude.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 21:09:20 1998
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 21:12:11 -0700
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Bill Houle <Bill.Houle@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: ANNOUNCE: MajorCool 1.3.1
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Version 1.3.1 of the "MajorCool" Web interface to Majordomo is now
available. This is a minor point release, but it does have some new
features in addition to the fixes/improvements:

NEW
o) "exact match" for the "Find" BROWSE mode
o) a RENAME mode to rename lists and supporting list files
o) support for web_access keyword to control MajorCool accessibility

FIXES
o) some regexps are 'compiled' for speed improvement
o) is_subscribed() tests avoided where possible
o) Help screen contains additional screen shots

As usual, http://ncrinfo.ncr.com/pub/contrib/unix/MajorCool/ for details &
download.

Now maybe with a little peace and quiet I can look at Mj2. (Didn't I say
that after 1.3.0? :)

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 23:28:36 1998
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:21:43 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
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Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
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On 1 Sep 1998, Rich Pieri wrote:

> This is really starting to get on my nerves.  Face it: installation and
> maintenance of Majordomo is a 'techie' subject.  If you do not want to
> learn 'techie' things, you have no business being in the machine room.  Get
> out, and hire someone competant.

While I wouldn't have stated things quite as strongly, I do feel that one
shouldn't be installing and creating lists without already knowing about
mail transport.  But what can we expect in a world in which there are a
growing number of sites whose postmasters don't understand about mail
transport? :-(

But some of the queries were about explanations in the comments in the
.config files.  And that material is directed toward list managers (as
opposed to majordomo managers).  So, I do see space for a real manual
directed toward list managers who are not majordomo-owner.  There are lots
of different pieces including the info for list owners doc and some other
things, but it would be nice if some kind soul would coordinate an effort
to bring the pieces together with an introduction to management mailing
lists in general.  It won't be me, though.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  1 23:58:16 1998
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:52:30 +0900
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Jay Melton <jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
Subject: Some help?
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Hello:

I am a teacher of English, and not a real technical person.  I would like
to set up some mailing lists for my students on my MkLinux box in my office.

Is there anyone on this list who can help me through the problems I'm having?

Jay

Jay Melton (mailto:jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp)
Prefectural University of Kumamoto
1-100 Tsukide 3-chome
Kumamoto 862 Japan
Phone: (096) 383 2929  (O's not necessary outside of Japan)
Fax:   (096) 384 6765
Homepage: http://www.pu-kumamoto.ac.jp/~jay/jay.html



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 00:44:24 1998
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From: Benarson Behajaina <Benarson.Behajaina@swh.sk>
Message-Id: <199809020739.AA15000@swh.sk>
Subject: Re: sender
To: hacky@students.TI.ITB.ac.id (Benkbenk)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:39:03 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: rich.pieri@prescienttech.com, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980901092213.1967A-100000@students.TI.ITB.ac.id> from "Benkbenk" at Sep 1, 98 09:25:03 am
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Benkbenk wrote:
> 
> > > I want to know how i can configure the list so the sender won't get the
> > > mail which they send to themselves.
> > 
> > Read the FAQ.
> > 
> I've read it again and again but stil can't found.
> Could you tell me which part is it???

You'll find the latest version of Majordomo FAQ at
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/majordomo-faq.html

See FAQ - 4.10

Benarson.
-- 
+---------------------------------+
+   Benarson Rodriguez Behajaina  + 
+   Unix System Administrator     + 
+   email :  benarson@swh.sk      + 
+   phone :  +421 7 538 4921      + 
+   fax   :  +421 7 538 5403      + 
+---------------------------------+

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 07:06:04 1998
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:50:37 +0100
From: wutzke <wutzke@eulink.net>
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Hello everyone,

  I need help to set the configuration file of majordomo.
  Is there any posibility to set a name for the reply-to field.
  e.g.

  Reply-To: "dogfood" <dfood@......>
            ^^^^^^^^^

  I hope you can help me.

  Thanx !


Best regards,
 Wutzke                          mailto:wutzke@eulink.net



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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Jeffrey Goldberg writes:

> But what can we expect in a world in which there are a growing number of
> sites whose postmasters don't understand about mail transport? :-(

In a reasonable world, would-be postmasters will learn about mail
transport.  Instead we get, "I'm not a techie, and I cannot understand
this", or, "I don't have time to learn it".  And as long as this attitude
is catered to it will get worse, not better.

I'm not saying that the Mj documentation has to be nigh-useless.  I'm
saying that drool-proofing it is counterproductive.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / types of skin.
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 08:03:46 1998
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From: malgosia askanas <askanas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199809021441.KAA00552@panix4.panix.com>
Subject: Re: sender
To: Benarson.Behajaina@swh.sk
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:41:02 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809020739.AA15000@swh.sk> from "Benarson Behajaina" at Sep 2, 98 09:39:03 am
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> Benkbenk wrote:
> > 
> > > > I want to know how i can configure the list so the sender won't get the
> > > > mail which they send to themselves.
> > > 
> > > Read the FAQ.
> > > 
> > I've read it again and again but stil can't found.
> > Could you tell me which part is it???
> 
> You'll find the latest version of Majordomo FAQ at
> http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/majordomo-faq.html
> 
> See FAQ - 4.10

Isn't the correct answer that in majordomo you _cannot_ configure the 
list that way?  What am I missing?


-malgosia

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 08:19:29 1998
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From: malgosia askanas <askanas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199809021437.KAA29620@panix4.panix.com>
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
To: bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com (Bill Houle)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:37:15 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809020346.UAA27727@ssol020.sandiegoca.ncr.com> from "Bill Houle" at Sep 1, 98 08:46:19 pm
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I very much agree with Bill Houle.  I have spent years now instructing 
list managers who have read the list-manager documentation, how to do
the things that are the normal stuff of list management.  In fact I would
volunteer to write a manual if such an act of volunteering was realistic
given my present schedule.  But if there is still no such manual in a while,
I might be able to do it.  The "while", however, might be quite long 
in my case.

Majorcool, BTW, goes a long way towards alleviating some of these problems, 
since it presents an interface that people are more willing to engage with 
than the e-mail interface.


-malgosia

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 08:34:18 1998
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From: warrenk@on-net.net (Warren Killian)
To: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 15:07:42 GMT
Organization: On-Net Services
Message-ID: <35f15ca1.76713839@mail.on-net.net>
References: <199809011627.JAA18483@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com> <x7soibwt6l.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
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On 01 Sep 1998 15:04:34 -0400, you wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>This is really starting to get on my nerves.  Face it: installation and
>maintenance of Majordomo is a 'techie' subject.  If you do not want to
>learn 'techie' things, you have no business being in the machine room.
Yeah, that's what I used to think, but my employer isn't giving me
much of a choice.  I'm not from a technical background, but I
nonetheless have had to learn how to install and configure Majordomo.
I want to learn techie things, thus I'm in the preverbial machine room
. . . and trying hard to do my best with what recources are available
to me.

>  Get out, and hire someone competant.
I hear ya.  But unfortunately, my boss is too much of a cheapscate to
even consider such a proposition.

>The ironic thing is that those who need drool-proof manuals are the ones
>that don't read manuals.
I read lots of manuals -- especially the majordomo documentation.
I've read it many times now, yet it amazes me that I've learned so
little in comparison to documentation for other UNIX programs I've
been forced to learn about.

Again, you've really been helpful.  Thanks.
Warren Killian
warrenk@on-net.net
Thank you,
Warren Killian
On-Net Services
8847 Commerce Park Place
Suite K
Indianapolis, IN 46268
E-mail: helpdesk@on-net.net
Ph: 317.876.6000
=46ax: 317.871.7035

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 09:33:15 1998
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From: Emilio Fischman <fischman@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809020712161.2940-100000@arpad.thegreen.pri
 vate>
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At 07:21 09/02/98 +0100 Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>[...] I do see space for a real manual
>directed toward list managers who are not majordomo-owners.  There are lots
>of different pieces including the info for list owners doc and some other
>things, but it would be nice if some kind soul would coordinate an effort
>to bring the pieces together with an introduction to management mailing
>lists in general.  It won't be me, though.

	I would be delighted to contribute to writing a manual for list managers
using majordomo, but before I can do that I would have to know a lot more
about the subject.  It's sort of a vicious circle, I'm afraid.  What's
needed is a programmer/techie who is ALSO a writer/literary person.


---
Emilio Fischman <fischman@mindspring.com>
http://www.mindspring.com/~fischman/scribetribe.htm
ScribeTribe list administrator


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 09:47:47 1998
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From: warrenk@on-net.net (Warren Killian)
To: jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Some help?
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 16:26:48 GMT
Organization: On-Net Services
Message-ID: <35f070fe.81927662@mail.on-net.net>
References: <v03130303b2129aa8db24@[202.26.169.33]>
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Hello Jay,

I am a very new user to Majordomo as well.  I'm in the final few
stages of setting up my own lists.  I'm no expert at this stuff, but
I'll be glad to share what knowledge and experience I have so far.

Why don't you start by describing your problems.  At what stage in the
installation/configuration process are you?  Have you installed
Majordomo yet?  Have you created any lists?  A little background would
help.

Thanks,
Warren Killian
warrenk@on-net.net

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:52:30 +0900, you wrote:

>Hello:
>
>I am a teacher of English, and not a real technical person.  I would =
like
>to set up some mailing lists for my students on my MkLinux box in my =
office.
>
>Is there anyone on this list who can help me through the problems I'm =
having?
>
>Jay
>
>Jay Melton (mailto:jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp)
>Prefectural University of Kumamoto
>1-100 Tsukide 3-chome
>Kumamoto 862 Japan
>Phone: (096) 383 2929  (O's not necessary outside of Japan)
>Fax:   (096) 384 6765
>Homepage: http://www.pu-kumamoto.ac.jp/~jay/jay.html
>
>


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 10:45:38 1998
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:26:34 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Jay Melton <jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Some help?
Message-ID: <19980902182634.B13655@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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Jay Melton wrote:

> Is there anyone on this list who can help me through the problems I'm having?

Telling us what the problems are would help quite a bit :-)

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 12:00:13 1998
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From: Marc.Haber-lists@gmx.de (Marc Haber)
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Digests and Message Footers
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:46:38 GMT
Organization: posting from University of Karlsruhe, Germany
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On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:08:55 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
>	[I have read and grepped and searched through all the
>	documentation I can find for the answer to this puzzle, though
>	I may have missed it.  I'm happy with a reference pointer as
>	much as the solution.]

ack. The question pops up every now and then, but nobody answers. I
have not even found an article saying "no, that can't be done at the
moment".

Greetings
Marc

--=20
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! =
-----
Marc Haber          |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im =
Header
Karlsruhe, Germany  |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | Fon: *49 721 966 32=
 15
Nordisch by Nature  | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31=
 29

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From: Marc.Haber-lists@gmx.de (Marc Haber)
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:46:37 GMT
Organization: posting from University of Karlsruhe, Germany
References: <199809011627.JAA18483@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com> <x7soibwt6l.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
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On 01 Sep 1998 15:04:34 -0400, you wrote:
>This is really starting to get on my nerves.  Face it: installation and
>maintenance of Majordomo is a 'techie' subject.  If you do not want to
>learn 'techie' things, you have no business being in the machine room.

Since when does one have to be present in the machine room to own a
list? I have not physically seen my mail server in weeks.

Greetings
Marc

--=20
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! =
-----
Marc Haber          |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im =
Header
Karlsruhe, Germany  |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | Fon: *49 721 966 32=
 15
Nordisch by Nature  | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31=
 29

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 12:37:45 1998
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To: Emilio Fischman <fischman@mindspring.com>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 02 Sep 1998 13:42:05 -0500
In-Reply-To: Emilio Fischman's message of "Wed, 02 Sep 1998 12:05:33 -0400"
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>>>>> "EF" == Emilio Fischman <fischman@mindspring.com> writes:

EF> What's needed is a programmer/techie who is ALSO a writer/literary
EF> person.

Not really.  What's needed is someone who can write well who can also read
what the programmers produce, translate it, find places where things are
underdocumented, ask appropriate questions to fill in the holes, and
translate the answers.  It is not necessary to actually be familiar with
the code to write documentation for the code.

Majordomo is in a relatively unique position, because it needs several
kinds of documentation which have very little overlap:

programming documentation
installation documentation
site owner documentation
list owner documentation
list member documentation

Ouch.  Of course, these are allowed to get more technical and less
user-friendly as they go up.

In any case, anyone who desires to help with documentation for the
development version is welcomed to join majordomo-workers and contribute.
We have one hard worker who is getting up to speed now, but we can always
use more.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 12:43:07 1998
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From: bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca (Bill Silvert)
Message-Id: <199809021844.PAA03232@ecology.bio.dfo.ca>
Subject: Approving, etc., from crummy mailers
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM (Majordomo Users)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:44:12 -0300 (ADT)
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Several list owners here are having problems coping with Majordomo
administration from some of the crummy commercial mailers that are out
there, such as Microsoft Exchange. I'm looking for tips to pass on to
them that will make their lives easier.

For example, I have found that Exchange doesn't put a blank line between
the headers and the message, which is fortunate because it means that
one can put an Approved: header into the message -- there doesn't seem
to be any way to add a user-defined header.

On the other hand, when one forwards a message to the list, one
sometimes ends up with indents even when one has decreased the indent to
zero, and you can't see it in the message you are sending. Consequently
one has to copy and paste into a new message, rather than forwarding
(this often happens when a questionable posting gets bounced to the
owner, and the owner wants to forward it to the list with an annotation
rather than approve it).

I've occasionally seen postings on this topic, dealing with particular
mailers like Eudora, and I wondered whether anyone had compiled them
into a guide for the perplexed. If so, it might be useful either as an
addendum to the FAQ, or perhaps as a separate document that could be
sent out to list owners.

-- 
Bill Silvert, Habitat Ecology Section, Bedford Institute of Oceanography,
P. O. Box 1006, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2, Tel. (902)426-1577
http://www.mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/mesd/he/staff/silvert/silvert.html

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 13:49:50 1998
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:55:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew <drew@herbert.roadmap.org>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Setting up majordomo. Error: Can't create output: Permission
 denied
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Hi,

I am running FreeBSD 2.2.7 RELEASE, with sendmail 8.9.  I have run
'wrapper config-test' and it has returned with no errors.  When I send a
message to majordomo I get the reply:

Can't create output: Permission denied

Any ideas on what could be causing this?  Below is the entire error
message if it will help.

Thanks


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:49:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
To: drew
Subject: Returned mail: Can't create output: Permission denied

The original message was received at Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
from drew@localhost

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
    (expanded from: <majordomo@herbert.roadmap.org>)



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 14:37:03 1998
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To: Marc.Haber-lists@gmx.de (Marc Haber)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Digests and Message Footers
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
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>>>>> "MH" == Marc Haber <Marc.Haber-lists@gmx.de> writes:

MH> The question pops up every now and then, but nobody answers.

I stopped answering after saying the same thing several times.  There is a
patch floating around that makes digest_rm_footer work.  I know it is in
the archives somewhere, and may even be at the patch archive; I just can't
remember where at the moment and don't have the time to search for it.  See
my page at http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/ for places to look.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 15:05:03 1998
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	(message from Jeffrey Goldberg on Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:21:43 +0100
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Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
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> While I wouldn't have stated things quite as strongly, I do feel that one
> shouldn't be installing and creating lists without already knowing about
> mail transport.

Maybe a good Majordomo manual should explain some of the basics, and
make very clear that one needs to have an experienced person available
both initally (to check the set-up) and later, in case something goes
wrong in a bad way (e.g. a mail loop)?

> opposed to majordomo managers).  So, I do see space for a real manual
> directed toward list managers who are not majordomo-owner.  There are lots
> of different pieces including the info for list owners doc and some other
> things, but it would be nice if some kind soul would coordinate an effort
> to bring the pieces together with an introduction to management mailing
> lists in general.  It won't be me, though.

Ok, I'm willing to contibute to such a manual, and also act as editor
and coordinate such an effort, _provided_ that at least eleven others
also volunteer to contribute to this. Could everyone who is willing to
contribute please send a private e-mail to <nb@thinkcoach.com>; I will
report in a week or so whether there are enough volunteers to start this
project or not.

May blessings from the eternal God surprise and overtake you!
                                                                Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Zuerich, Switzerland. Backup e-mail address: NB@POBOX.COM

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 16:43:19 1998
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:20:32 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: wutzke <wutzke@eulink.net>,
        MAJORDOMO-USERS <MAJORDOMO-USERS@GreatCircle.COM>
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wutzke wrote:

>   Reply-To: "dogfood" <dfood@......>
>             ^^^^^^^^^
> 
>   I hope you can help me.

I think you've worked it out yourself.

reply_to = dogfood <dfood@domian.co.uk>

or whatever works fine.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 18:32:16 1998
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Subject: Re: Approving, etc., from crummy mailers
To: bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca (Bill Silvert)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:21:16 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809021844.PAA03232@ecology.bio.dfo.ca> from "Bill Silvert" at Sep 2, 98 03:44:12 pm
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Bill Silvert said:
> 
> Several list owners here are having problems coping with Majordomo
> administration from some of the crummy commercial mailers that are out
> there, such as Microsoft Exchange. I'm looking for tips to pass on to
> them that will make their lives easier.

IMH-yet-biased-O, you can save your users a world of trouble with
MajorCool's web-based approval process. Approves are a click away
with no messing with problem headers or mailer vagaries.

A patch to Majordomo that will enable this feature is included in
the MC distribution, but no, there is no manual :) so patching will
take a bit of Perl/Unix smarts.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 19:17:20 1998
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:59:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
In-Reply-To: <E0zEHwW-0002rW-00@nz15.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
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On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Marc Haber wrote:

:On 01 Sep 1998 15:04:34 -0400, you wrote:
:>This is really starting to get on my nerves.  Face it: installation and
:>maintenance of Majordomo is a 'techie' subject.  If you do not want to
:>learn 'techie' things, you have no business being in the machine room.
:
:Since when does one have to be present in the machine room to own a
:list? I have not physically seen my mail server in weeks.

"Installation and maintenance" require one to be in the machine room; 
"ownership" requires only that one have an email address.  The two have
been annoyingly confused in recent exchanges.

The documentation for those in the machine room, as has been observed, is
good enough for anyone who has any business being there.  The
documentation for owners, the listowner info file, may not be great, but
it's not as totally useless as has been implied, if you pay careful
attention to it. The list.config comments are also useful, although
perhaps not as transparent as they might be.  And the O'Reilly chapters on
mailing lists in Managing Internet Information Services, even though it's
getting pretty badly out of date (whatever happened to the next edition?)
are still helpful. Plus the FAQ, the archives, the code itself ...

I really get the feeling that people are not actually trying to _use_ the
software and figure out how it works, but are expecting a level of support
which is simply unreasonable in this context.  I've installed a bunch of
freeware, and MajorDomo is not unusually poorly documented in my view.

You get what you pay for, and live with it, or you contribute to making it
better.  I can't claim to have done the latter with MajorDomo (because
I've been happy to live with it, and made only very minor, peripheral
contributions).

I guess the signal:whining ratio is getting to me :)

Patrick


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 19:36:12 1998
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References: Jeffrey Goldberg's message of "Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:21:43 +0100
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:26:20 +0900
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
From: Jay Melton <jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
Subject: Faulty pedagogy (was Re: Majordomo Manual?)
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No, you will get people like me (the "computer boy" at my university,
Mac-literate, but self-taught on Linux) who will be able to help others get
set up with programs like majordomo and help spread ideas and information
in more useful and powerful ways.

Some people, like me, have non-computer jobs but use computers to help
people learn.

This idea of you have to "work hard" and "spend lots of time" is really bad
pedagogy and does nothing to promote learning pure and simple.

My two cents

Jay

[snip]
>In a reasonable world, would-be postmasters will learn about mail
>transport.  Instead we get, "I'm not a techie, and I cannot understand
>this", or, "I don't have time to learn it".  And as long as this attitude
>is catered to it will get worse, not better.
[snip]

Jay Melton (mailto:jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp)
Prefectural University of Kumamoto
1-100 Tsukide 3-chome
Kumamoto 862 Japan
Phone: (096) 383 2929  (O's not necessary outside of Japan)
Fax:   (096) 384 6765
Homepage: http://www.pu-kumamoto.ac.jp/~jay/jay.html



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 19:51:45 1998
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Reply-To: <alan_s@shaknet.clark.net>
From: "Alan V. Shackelford" <alan_s@shaknet.clark.net>
To: <majordomo-users@Greatcircle.com>
Subject: Manuals for Freeware
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:39:09 -0400
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I have been teaching myself about computer networking and communications for
about three years now on Linux/GNU powered PCs. These machines are running
majordomo, mgetty, ssh, diald, Tkdesk and listserv, as well as a host of
other apps that were parts of distributions or downloaded from the internet.
All of these had documents pacs that came with them. None of the docs were
step-by-step instructions. At first I whined constantly about not being able
to get things to work. After months of being beaten down by experienced
users who gave just enough information to piss me off, I stopped whining,
bought some books, and began to seriously learn what was going on.

What I'm saying is that in my opinion the "newbie syndrome" is a normal part
of the process. It is a shame it has to be that way. But to give a numbered,
step-by-step instruction set for all these fine proggies would rob a newbie
of the joy of figuring things out. Besides, every machine is not the same,
so the incredible number of possible configurations makes a definitive
manual difficult to compile.

Alan V. Shackelford alan_s@shaknet.clark.net
One net to rule them all, one net to find them
one net to bring them all, and using Unix bind them.


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 22:44:46 1998
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	by Tribe.OnlineToday.Com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA16963
	for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.Com>; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:34:11 -0500
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980903003336.007ce100@Tribe.OnlineToday.Com>
X-Sender: raven@Tribe.OnlineToday.Com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 00:33:36 -0500
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.Com
From: Raven <Raven@Tribe.OnlineToday.Com>
Subject: no one receives mail
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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Hi everyone,

I just put Majordomo back on my machine after upgrading the OS from RedHat
4.1 to 5.1 (kernel 2.0.34, Sendmail 8.8.7).  Installation and configuration
went fine but now nobody gets messages from the list once it is sent to the
list address.  I can see the messages being digest-ified but nothing seems
to be going out.  I tried sending from a couple of different user accounts
thinking at first only the sender wasn't receiving them but that turned out
not to be the case (nobody is getting them at least on this box).  I
checked to make sure those users were subscribed to the list.  Here is the
relevant part of my /etc/aliases:

tasssp:"|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l tasssp -h
tribe.onlinetod
ay.com tasssp-outgoing"

tasssp-digest:tasssp

tasssp-outgoing: :include:/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/tasssp,
"|/usr/local
/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper digest -r -C -l tasssp-digest
tasssp-digest-outgoing",
 "| /usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper archive2.pl -a  -m -f
/usr/local/majordo
mo-1.94.4/lists/tasssp.archive"


tasssp-digest-outgoing::include:/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/tasssp-dig
est

owner-tasssp: raven               

Raven

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 23:00:01 1998
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	by euler.central.cranfield.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
	id 0zESNA-00055N-00; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:55:56 +0100
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:55:53 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Marc Haber <Marc.Haber-lists@gmx.de>
cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
In-Reply-To: <E0zEHwW-0002rW-00@nz15.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809030653001.5000-100000@arpad.thegreen.private>
Organization: Cranfield University Computer Centre
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On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Marc Haber wrote:

> On 01 Sep 1998 15:04:34 -0400, you wrote:
> >This is really starting to get on my nerves.  Face it: installation and
> >maintenance of Majordomo is a 'techie' subject.  If you do not want to
> >learn 'techie' things, you have no business being in the machine room.
> 
> Since when does one have to be present in the machine room to own a
> list? I have not physically seen my mail server in weeks.

Installing majordomo requires root access and fiddling with the MTA.  As
does setting up a new list.  Documentation for list managers should be
different from documentation for majordomo managers.  The latter are the
people who run email at the site.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 23:15:59 1998
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	by euler.central.cranfield.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
	id 0zESUC-0003pa-00; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:03:12 +0100
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:02:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Andrew <drew@herbert.roadmap.org>
cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Setting up majordomo. Error: Can't create output: Permission
 denied
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.01.9809021551350.1562-100000@herbert.roadmap.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809030701030.5000-100000@arpad.thegreen.private>
Organization: Cranfield University Computer Centre
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On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Andrew wrote:

> I am running FreeBSD 2.2.7 RELEASE, with sendmail 8.9.  I have run
> 'wrapper config-test' and it has returned with no errors.  When I send a
> message to majordomo I get the reply:
> 
> Can't create output: Permission denied

When you ran the config-test did you do it as an ordinary user?  If you
ran it as root or as the majordomo user it might falsly pass its
permission checks.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  2 23:58:48 1998
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:55:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: "Alan V. Shackelford" <alan_s@shaknet.clark.net>
cc: majordomo-users@Greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Manuals for Freeware
In-Reply-To: <001801bdd6e4$07f50e70$0100a8c0@reliant.shaknet.priv>
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Organization: Cranfield University Computer Centre
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On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Alan V. Shackelford wrote:

> Besides, every machine is not the same, so the incredible number of
> possible configurations makes a definitive manual difficult to
> compile.

That is crucial.  Majordomo installation and majordomo site administration
it would be impossible to give step by step instructions.

Majordomo should work with any reasonable version of any reasonanable MTA
that can pipe.  Examples given in terms of sendmail should be acceptible
even for people who are using other MTAs since the principle is the same.
But that means that the person reading those instructions understands
the principle (and some others) and understands who mail transport works
on their system and is supposed to work in general.

Basically the docs assume

(1) That the installer has compiled, installed other systems software and
    is not afraid to edit a Makefile.  Also, the installer may have to
    tinker with the MTAs central config for "trusted user".  They should
    know what perl is.

(2) That the site maintainer understands how mail transport works at their
    site and can manipulate files, file ownerships, and is confortable
    with manipulating the MTAs aliases.  Should be comfortable with things
    like cron and other sydadm-ish things.

(3) That a list manager be an experienced email user who has used mailing
    lists before as a member and is generally experienced with the user
    level aspects of a mailing list.  Also the list manager should know
    enough about email to be able to know what their own client is doing
    in terms of wrapping or cutting and pasting correctly.  Since the list
    manager is going to have to deal with BOUNCES and bounces, they should
    be a fairly sophisticated email user.  Ideally, they should be
    comfortable reading delivery reports and relay headers.

(4) The list member is assumed to be able to send a text message according
    to instructions in English and have it be really a text message.  The
    user is also assumed to know what a mailing list is and what their
    own email address is.


I think that these sorts of assumptions should be made explicit in the
docs.  Also, for some of them, a couple paragraphs giving some general
background might be reasonable, although we should be trying to get
general concepts across briefly.

I think that the actual contents of the docs are ok.  My complaint is that
they are fragmentory, and neither make clear the assumptions or who the
particular bit of information is directed toward. Pulling the bits and
pieces together into a unified manual with chapters for the different
functions is something I strongly encourage (but can't volunteer to help
with).

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 00:58:33 1998
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Received: from smtp01-edvg.edvg.co.at (smtp01-edvg.edvg.co.at [192.164.36.135]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id AAA09380 for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:38:54 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <35EE49A9.67CFF87F@online.edvg.co.at>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:47:53 +0200
From: n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at (Niels Hansa)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca (Bill Silvert)
CC: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM (Majordomo Users)
Subject: Re: Approving, etc., from crummy mailers
References: <199809021844.PAA03232@ecology.bio.dfo.ca>
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------msEE5D7B408ECAEDD6DCE6BDE1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bill Silvert wrote:
> 
> For example, I have found that Exchange doesn't put a blank line between
> the headers and the message, which is fortunate because it means that
> one can put an Approved: header into the message -- there doesn't seem
> to be any way to add a user-defined header.

Oh, yes! I am also extremely interested in this topic.

My crummy mailer is Lotus Notes, which puts 2 blank lines between header
and body, which has essentially the same effect. There also seems to be
no way to change the Notes->SMTP Conversion an the Gateway, so that
there is only one blank line. Lotus couldn't help up to now. 
I know tat this is the wrong place to discuss this, but there might be a
way to do it with Majordomo.

My motto:" If Notes can't do it, Majordomo might be able to do it!"

One workaround might be to offer an additional <list>-pass@... , which
does the same as if there where an "Approved: xxxxx" in the first line
of the body. I don't know how to set up security for the list this way,
but others might.

Another way would IMHO be to have an approval queue maybe together with
<list>-pass@..., which gives you list of unapproved mails. These mails
can be approves in (one) mail. The procedure might be the following:

Admin sends mail to <list>-pass@... with "approve xxxx queue"

<list>-pass@... replys:

>>approve xxxx queue
There are 5 Mails in the Approval Queue

ID         Sender              Topic                 Timestamp
AQ98080001 joe.doe@aol.com     "Why M$ sucks"        08/28/1998, 14:23   
AQ98080002 lane.doe@aol.com    "Re: Why M$ sucks"    08/29/1998, 08:12
...

When the admin send te following to <list>-pass@..., the mail are beeing
approved:

approve xxxx queue AQ98080001
approve xxxx queue AQ98080002
...

This way it doesn't matter whether the "Approved: xxxx" is in the first
line of te body or not.

Sijce I am not a Perl "Freak" or a software developer, I would like
developers to comment ;-)

cu,
Niels
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From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 01:46:01 1998
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:50:54 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Andrew <drew@herbert.roadmap.org>, majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Setting up majordomo. Error: Can't create output: Permission denied
Message-ID: <19980903085054.C24144@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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Andrew wrote:

> I am running FreeBSD 2.2.7 RELEASE, with sendmail 8.9.  I have run
> 'wrapper config-test' and it has returned with no errors.  When I send a
> message to majordomo I get the reply:
> 
> Can't create output: Permission denied
> 
> Any ideas on what could be causing this?  Below is the entire error
> message if it will help.

Looks like Majordomo can't write to the temp folder, or something. What
is Majordomo using as the temp folder, and what are the permissions on it?

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 04:27:51 1998
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Message-ID: <35EE75FF.B48A549D@online.edvg.co.at>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:57:03 +0200
From: n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at (Niels Hansa)
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To: bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com (Bill Houle)
CC: bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca (Bill Silvert), <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Approving, etc., from crummy mailers
References: <199809030121.SAA08763@ssol020.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
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Bill Houle wrote:
> 
> IMH-yet-biased-O, you can save your users a world of trouble with
> MajorCool's web-based approval process. Approves are a click away
> with no messing with problem headers or mailer vagaries.
> 
> A patch to Majordomo that will enable this feature is included in
> the MC distribution, but no, there is no manual :) so patching will
> take a bit of Perl/Unix smarts.
> 

Yes! I have MajorCool version 1.3.0 installed. I have also heard there
is a new release of MajorCool. I am pleased with v1.3.0 an dwould like
to patch in the approval queue feature. I also heared there is a
majordomo "modification" patch available. Where???
I dont have the "Perl smarts", but ppl in our organisation do ;-)

pls advise, where I can get the patch.

cu,
Niels
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From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 06:28:07 1998
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Message-ID: <35EE9AAD.E4112D42@ctg.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:33:33 -0400
From: Leon Rothenberg <leon.rothenberg@ctg.com>
Organization: Computer Task Group
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Alan V. Shackelford wrote:
> 
> What I'm saying is that in my opinion the "newbie syndrome" is a normal part
> of the process. It is a shame it has to be that way. But to give a numbered,
> step-by-step instruction set for all these fine proggies would rob a newbie
> of the joy of figuring things out. Besides, every machine is not the same,
> so the incredible number of possible configurations makes a definitive
> manual difficult to compile.
> 

I agree that a certain amount of figuring things out on your own is a
good thing, however often crucial pieces of information can be hidden
below levels and levels of counterintuitive muck, which besides being
frustrating can be (forgive me here) an expensive outlay of time for
your employer.  I am not saying that anyone should be spoon fed, however
I am not sure that we should maintain an attitude that newbie questions
are worth only enough information for them to ask another question.  I
have found that if you point someone in the right direction in a kind
and complete way, not only do they figure it out themselves, they don't
come back to you with the same question.  A good example which just
passed through this list was someone (I forget who) pointed to the FAQ
and added the section number.  That is helpful and requires little
effort on the part of someone who knows exactly where to look.  I myself
found the answer to my own question after too hastily posting the other
day in about 10 seconds.

I cannot say that figuring things out has always been a joy.  But that's
life, and hand-holding will certainly not help anyone to be
self-reliant.  Providing a starting place or answering a question /and/
pointing to the documentation will IMHO go a long way towards avoiding
repeat questions and frustration on everyone's part.  Throwing the
occasional bone will not make us any less good as hacker dooodzzzz,
programmers or sysadmins.
-- 
-leon rothenberg

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 07:01:09 1998
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	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:57:37 -0600
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:57:37 -0600
Message-Id: <199809031357.HVH02604@zebra.alphacdc.com>
From: Vern Hoxie <vern@zebra.alphacdc.com>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

I am not so adamant about the need for a manual.  The design of the
utility lacks logic.  At least the logic needed by a user to set up
a mailing list.

My "bitch" list (so far):

1.  Too much reliance of "aliases" to "sendmail".  This practice
    causes distortions of linear logic.  The magic involved in
    passing control from program to program is something which David
    Copperfield would envy.

2.  Implementation of "features" which are contrary to existing docs.
    The instructions state that subscribers should send requests to
    <list>-request with the specific request on a single line with the
    action requested at the beginning of the line.

    In practice, if the words "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" are
    anywhere in the first 15 lines of a message, that message will
    bounce.  How can you disable this "feature"?  By defining the
    boolean "administrivia" as false.  What logic connects the word
    "administrivia" with performing a word search in subscriber posted
    messages.

    This is "feature" is obscure to an administrator and a complete
    blank to users.  Why should they have misspell "subscribe"?

3.  What logic dictates that a "digest" should be a separate list?
    Here again is an abusive use of the mailer's "aliases" file.  How
    do subscribers to a digest respond to a topic in the digest?

    The desirability of a digest is to avoid so many individual
    postings.  However, a subscriber to a the digest, must resubscribe
    to the list to post a response to a message in the digest.

    Perhaps I have not been able to follow the pretzelized logic of
    setting up a digest.

This suite of programs seriously lack design parameters and appears to
a series of fantasies glued together.  This lack of logical design
precludes the ability of anyone from generating a coherent manual.

vern

-- 
Vernon C. Hoxie                                     vern@zebra.alphacdc.com
3975 W. 29th Ave.                                        uucp: 303-455-2670
Denver, Colo., 80212                                    voice: 303-477-1780
                    Whatever you want to do, do it now.
                     There are only so many tomorrows.

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 08:14:09 1998
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	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:06:38 -0500 (EST)
From: warrenk@on-net.net (Warren Killian)
To: Jay Melton <jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.com
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.com
Subject: Re: Some help?
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 15:07:11 GMT
Organization: On-Net Services
Message-ID: <35f0a91a.3782808@mail.on-net.net>
References: <v03130303b2129aa8db24@[202.26.169.33]> <v03130303b2129aa8db24@[202.26.169.33]> <v03130302b213974a1251@[202.26.169.33]>
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Hello Jay,

Thanks for describing the problem.  I'm running Majordomo on FreeBSD.
My permissions are as follows:

wrapper:
-rwsr-xr-x  1 root      majordom  12993 Jul 23 15:50 wrapper

majordomo directory:
drwxr-xr-x   8 majordom  majordom   512 Sep  1 10:09 majordomo

Jay, the following line that you listed below looks funny:
|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper =
resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend.

Why don't you send myself or the list the contents of your
/etc/aliases file where you have the entries for the list in question.

Also, have you tried running the "config-test" script that comes with
Majordomo.  It's supposed to find errors that could cause the
majordomo program to malfunction.  If you haven't run it yet, do the
following:
1.) cd into your majordomo directory.
2.) type "./wrapper config-test" and hit enter.
3.) Read the output very carefully.

Hope any of this helps.
Warren Killian
warrenk@on-net.net



On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:47:32 +0900, you wrote:

>Hi Warren,
>
>Thanks for getting back to me.
>
>I wrote about them twice before, but got no answer (so I didn't write =
about
>them again in my last plea).  It's about the permissions for the wrapper
>(Returned mail: Insufficient permission: Error 0]).  I've been through =
the
>FAQs, but can't get the permissions right.  I'm not an idiot, but I've
>spent four very valuable days (now becoming five) trying to set this up.
>I'd like to get this running, so my students can try it out next week =
(kind
>of a trial before I open it up to the university)...
>
>I'm using Linux (POSIX), and the ls -ld for wrapper is:
>
>-rwsr-xr-x	1	root	majordom	23940	Sep 2	15:12 wrapper
>
>I made up a tester list.  One of my colleagues and I successfully
>subsribed, but when we try to send to the list, we get:
>
>   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>"|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper =
resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"
>    (expanded from: <macusers@cartero.pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>)
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper: error: insecure usage
>550 "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
>resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"... Insufficient =
permission:
>Error 0
>
>What do I need to fix?
>
>Jay


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 09:28:19 1998
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	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Message-Id: <199809031557.IAA11408@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Approving, etc., from crummy mailers
To: n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at (Niels Hansa)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <35EE75FF.B48A549D@online.edvg.co.at> from "Niels Hansa" at Sep 3, 98 12:57:03 pm
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I said:
> A patch to Majordomo that will enable this feature is included in
> the MC distribution, but no, there is no manual :) so patching will
> take a bit of Perl/Unix smarts.

Then Niels Hansa said:
> pls advise, where I can get the patch.

Uh...wasn't it just said that it is part of the distribution? Why
not look around? (Hint: the MajorCool docs might be a good place 
to start.)

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 09:28:32 1998
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From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
References: <199809031357.HVH02604@zebra.alphacdc.com>
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Date: 03 Sep 1998 12:11:22 -0400
In-Reply-To: Vern Hoxie's message of "Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:57:37 -0600"
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Vern Hoxie writes:

> 1.  Too much reliance of "aliases" to "sendmail".  This practice
>     causes distortions of linear logic.  The magic involved in
>     passing control from program to program is something which David
>     Copperfield would envy.

Point: sendmail is the most common MTA in the world.  It is pretty much
guaranteed to be there for any Unix and almost any Unixalike.  Therefore it
easilly qualifies as the baseline for Majordomo installations.

Point: sendmail closely follows the Unix model of piped I/O, using the
well-defined alias mechanism.

If you have a problem with sendmail's alias mechanism, that is your
problem, not Majordomo's.

> 2.  Implementation of "features" which are contrary to existing docs.
>     The instructions state that subscribers should send requests to
>     <list>-request with the specific request on a single line with the
>     action requested at the beginning of the line.

>     In practice, if the words "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" are
>     anywhere in the first 15 lines of a message, that message will
>     bounce.

This happens if you send administrative commands to the mailing list
instead of the list-request address.  Put bluntly: it is your stupidity for
failing to follow the instructions as written.  More bluntly, you screwed
up, and you want to blame Majordomo for it.

> 3.  What logic dictates that a "digest" should be a separate list?

It allows for mailing lists that are only digests, such as the National
Midnight Star (which is digest-only, last I knew, even if it is not handled
by Majordomo, which I think it is).

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNe6/pJ6VRH7BJMxHAQHo7gQAqo9vBcWfreOAbmSGOahoh3TF7NqmePGt
w0tKCtbkqt6/7UjRKAddzkRRraVdqKeOE967wSAhpOdPdGoFErPxYSdyaEQwh7Wf
Mv0ggZCYWbdIpVoJmCA8THssGBgwydF81Ou6El+AxZIrrrcxXBe6bzjKcSD9CHhc
pAcVKDys1n8=
=NpPm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke,
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / get away immediately. Seek shelter
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / and cover head.
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 09:45:37 1998
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:38:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Lieu T. Nguyen - yp=dv" <ltn@lsil.com>
Reply-To: "Lieu T. Nguyen - yp=dv" <ltn@lsil.com>
Subject: book on mail transport?
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
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Hello all,

I am a very new user to Majordomo. I don't know anything about mail 
transport, and like to learn about it. Is there any easy-to-understand 
book on this subject (or manual, website...) that any of you would 
recommend? 

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,
Lieu


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 10:17:40 1998
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To: Vern Hoxie <vern@zebra.alphacdc.com>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
References: <199809031357.HVH02604@zebra.alphacdc.com>
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 03 Sep 1998 11:48:53 -0500
In-Reply-To: Vern Hoxie's message of "Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:57:37 -0600"
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>>>>> "VH" == Vern Hoxie <vern@zebra.alphacdc.com> writes:

My comments relate to the development version, which is the place where
we're fixing your complaints.  Please join majordomo-workers if you'd like
to help us.

VH> Too much reliance of "aliases" to "sendmail".

You're not specific enough.  Current aliases look like:

# Aliases for test-list
test-list:         "|/path/to/mj_email -r -d hpc.uh.edu -l test-list"
test-list-request: "|/path/to/mj_email -q -d hpc.uh.edu -l test-list"
test-list-owner:   "|/path/to/mj_email -o -d hpc.uh.edu -l test-list"
owner-test-list:   test-list-owner,
# End aliases for test-list

This is generated by Majordomo itself.  Archives (and digests, when
implemented) will be handled internally.   What happens to mail sent to the
-request address is configurable (forward to owner, process for commands,
or respond with a message).

VH> This practice causes distortions of linear logic.

This makes no sense whatsoever to me.  It's just a producer/consumer
chain.  But we found that getting people to get it right was more effort
than getting the code to get it right, so we arrived at the above.

VH> The instructions state that subscribers should send requests to
VH> <list>-request with the specific request on a single line with the
VH> action requested at the beginning of the line.

Some lists work that way; it's site policy.  And you don't quote where in
the instructions your problem arises.

VH> In practice, if the words "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" are anywhere
VH> in the first 15 lines of a message, that message will bounce.

Well, it's 10, not 15, but yes, that's the case, if you leave it enabled.

VH> How can you disable this "feature"?  By defining the boolean
VH> "administrivia" as false.  What logic connects the word "administrivia"
VH> with performing a word search in subscriber posted messages.

What would be a better name?  You're not making constructive criticisms
here.  BTW, the explanation states:

        # Look for administrative requests (e.g. subscribe/unsubscribe) and
        # forward them to the list maintainer instead of the list.

which looks reasonably explanatory to me.

VH> 3.  What logic dictates that a "digest" should be a separate list? Here
VH> again is an abusive use of the mailer's "aliases" file.

Simplicity has very many benefits.  This allows the digestifier to be a
completely separate program.  A lot of people appreciate that simplicity.
That said, it's been done away with; digestification is a separate perl
module which is used internally but could be used standalone.

VH> How do subscribers to a digest respond to a topic in the digest?

That's purely a user agent issue; I don't see how Majordomo comes into it.

VH> The desirability of a digest is to avoid so many individual postings.
VH> However, a subscriber to a the digest, must resubscribe to the list to
VH> post a response to a message in the digest.

You must have misconfigured something then, because this is generally not
the case.  If you have restrict_post set, you also have to allow users from
the digest list to post:

restrict_post = list:list-digest

This problem isn't really meaningful when the digest is no longer a
separate list.

(Large block of vitriol from me over the complete lack of constructive
criticism in this post deleted.  I'm trying to be better than that.)

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 11:40:58 1998
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From: chip@pcc.com (Chip Hart)
Subject: Re: Digests and Message Footers (fwd)
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:47:07 -0400 (EDT)
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Jason L Tibbitts III spoke:
> 
> MH> The question pops up every now and then, but nobody answers.
> 
> I stopped answering after saying the same thing several times.  There is a
> patch floating around that makes digest_rm_footer work.  I know it is in
> the archives somewhere, and may even be at the patch archive; I just can't
> remember where at the moment and don't have the time to search for it.  See
> my page at http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/ for places to look.
	
	Thanks for the tip; I obviously missed it the few times through.

	For those still wondering, the URL presently is:

http://sol.ccsf.cc.ca.us/ftp/majordomo-patches/Optional/digest.3

	Thanks again.

-- 
Chip Hart                           *                        chip @ pcc.com
Physicians's Computer Company       *              http://www.pcc.com/~chip
15 Pinecrest Drive                  *                     Work:800-722-7708
Essex Junction, VT  05452           *                     Fax: 802-872-8214

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 12:14:35 1998
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Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
To: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com (Vern Hoxie)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:01:48 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809031357.HVH02604@zebra.alphacdc.com> from "Vern Hoxie" at Sep 3, 98 07:57:37 am
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Vern Hoxie said:
> 
> 1.  Too much reliance of "aliases" to "sendmail".

Yup, and aliases are always a major source of questions. Mj2 should
minimize this.

> 2.  Implementation of "features" which are contrary to existing docs.
>     The instructions state that subscribers should send requests to
>     <list>-request with the specific request on a single line with the
>     action requested at the beginning of the line.

Do you have a problem with this? This is standard behavior almost
everywhere (Majordomo or not).

>     What logic connects the word
>     "administrivia" with performing a word search in subscriber posted
>     messages.

Are the above two points are connected? I don't see the reasoning.
Requests should go to the Majordomo or -request address. Surely you
don't consider this a bad feature? Conversely, there should be no
requests sent to the list itself. 'administrivia' is a 'cute' name
meant to encapsulate the whole block-commands-sent-to-the-list
ideal, but I agree that its difficult to connect the concept to the 
choice of names. But its kinda hard to come up with a non-ambiguous 
one word (or short phrase) cofig item to describe this behavior.
administrivia probably seemed like a good idea at the time.

> 3.  What logic dictates that a "digest" should be a separate list?

Again, Mj2 should resolve this with the ability to assign attributes
to list members. Currently, existence on a list is the sole attribute.

>     The desirability of a digest is to avoid so many individual
>     postings.  However, a subscriber to a the digest, must resubscribe
>     to the list to post a response to a message in the digest.

I don't think your digest is setup correctly.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 12:27:53 1998
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:31:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
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To: Andrew <drew@herbert.roadmap.org>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Setting up majordomo. Error: Can't create output: Permission
 denied
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On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Andrew wrote:

> Subject: Returned mail: Can't create output: Permission denied
> 
> The original message was received at Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
> from drew@localhost
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
>     (expanded from: <majordomo@herbert.roadmap.org>)

Your alias is incorrect. There is a missing "|",

majordomo: "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
            ^
            |

If the "|" it means appending to the file, but sendmail doesn't if the
file is executable as in your case.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 13:10:57 1998
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From: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
To: "Majordomo Mailing List" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:17:03 +0200
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  Vern:
> A subscriber to a the digest, must resubscribe to the list to post
> a response to a message in the digest.

  restrict_post = list:list-digest  
  will allow subscribers of both lists to post to the list.


/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                                ICQ 9199591



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 13:41:04 1998
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Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
To: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com (Vern Hoxie)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809031357.HVH02604@zebra.alphacdc.com> from "Vern Hoxie" at Sep 3, 98 07:57:37 am
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> 1.  Too much reliance of "aliases" to "sendmail".  This practice
>     causes distortions of linear logic.  The magic involved in
>     passing control from program to program is something which David
>     Copperfield would envy.

What is "too much reliance"?  What alternative scheme, other than aliases,
do you propose for causing mail addressed to an an e-mail address -- such 
as the address of a list -- to go to something other than a user with an 
account on the given system?

> 
> 2.  Implementation of "features" which are contrary to existing docs.
>     The instructions state that subscribers should send requests to
>     <list>-request with the specific request on a single line with the
>     action requested at the beginning of the line.
> 
>     In practice, if the words "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" are
>     anywhere in the first 15 lines of a message, that message will
>     bounce.  How can you disable this "feature"?  By defining the
>     boolean "administrivia" as false.  What logic connects the word
>     "administrivia" with performing a word search in subscriber posted
>     messages.

What word would you suggest should be used instead?  "Administrivia" refers
to the kinds of words that will cause rejection of the message (if the
feature is turned on).  No good?

>     This is "feature" is obscure to an administrator and a complete
>     blank to users.  Why should they have misspell "subscribe"?

Because many people send their subscription/unsubscription requests 
_to the list_ itself, and it is a very good thing that messages that
look like such requests get bounced, rather than going to the list.  
Why is this so hard to explain?

> 3.  What logic dictates that a "digest" should be a separate list?
>     Here again is an abusive use of the mailer's "aliases" file.  How
>     do subscribers to a digest respond to a topic in the digest?

You respond to the digest message, and put in your own "Subject" header.
Or not put it in, and just permit the "Subject" header to remain whethever
the digester puts in.  

>     The desirability of a digest is to avoid so many individual
>     postings.  However, a subscriber to a the digest, must resubscribe
>     to the list to post a response to a message in the digest.

How so?  When you respond to a digest message, the response goes to the 
list itself.  Assuming that the digest has been set up according to
instructions.  What exactly is the nature you your complaint?

>     Perhaps I have not been able to follow the pretzelized logic of
>     setting up a digest.

What is pretzelized about it?  A digest is _not_ supposed to be a bunch
of full-fledged individual mail messages.  You gain compactness, but you 
lose the ability to have the right "Subject" header automatically put in
by your mailer.  So?


-m

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 14:11:31 1998
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To: Warren Killian <warrenk@on-net.net>
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Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
References: <199809011627.JAA18483@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com> <x7soibwt6l.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com> <35f15ca1.76713839@mail.on-net.net>
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Warren Killian wrote:
> 
> On 01 Sep 1998 15:04:34 -0400, you wrote:

> >The ironic thing is that those who need drool-proof manuals are the ones
> >that don't read manuals.

> I read lots of manuals -- especially the majordomo documentation.
> I've read it many times now, yet it amazes me that I've learned so
> little in comparison to documentation for other UNIX programs I've
> been forced to learn about.

	What is it that you expected to learn? I have read this thread with
interest because I have never seen what the fuss about majordomo's
"complexity" is. It's actually very simple. It has 3 main parts. The
"majordomo program" itself gets passed stuff by sendmail, it does its
thing with the list files, configurations, etc.; and passes the results
to sendmail to send out. The resend script handles things like
filtering, moderation, etc. It's clearly spelled out in the NEWLISTS
file that if you want those features you need to use resend.

	The third part of majordomo is the wrapper, which users and
administrators never interact with, so as long as you follow the
directions about setting your permissions, you're golden. 

	Admittedly, the list-manager documentation that comes with the
distribution isn't so good, but there are at least two external sources
for this on the web that are quite good. Perhaps these docs could be
added to the distribution?  This won't make sysadmins send it to new
list managers, but it would help people who download the software for
their own use. To my mind the config file comments are quite good,
however I realize that neophyte users may not understand the
implications of these settings. 

	So I guess my question is, what is the big deal?  Everything you need
to know to make majordomo work is available to you, what is it that
we're trying to accomplish?

Doug
-- 
***           Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network          ***

At Barry (a small town in south Wales) hidden cameras have had to be
installed to keep watch on the town's CCTV [Closed Circuit Television]
to record acts of vandalism against the CCTV. - Privacy Forum

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To: Leon Rothenberg <leon.rothenberg@ctg.com>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Jann Linder <jann@jann.com>
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<DIATRIBE>
<ACTION="ClimbOnSoapBox" METHOD="IMHO">

BOY!!!  being an author who actually supports what he writes, i have to agree.

I simply do not have the time to handle people who DO NOT read the full
instructions which i include ((32k)-text only...no html) with CalendarPlus!
 I get REAL tired, REAL fast if i have to keep telling the same thing to
the people over and over, cos ...well--the instructions say this, but IF i
were to do that, would it really work!??!

JUST DO IT and learn like we ALL did! maybe someone else has the time to
write FMTYEWTK about CalendarPlus, but for every question I get, i enter it
into the FAQ and point people there..as it is searchable. (as all are if
you use ANY browser/text editor)

BESIDES!  I do not wish to compete w/O'Reilly...if i were to tell
all...O'Reilly would lose aLOT of Programming Perl purchases <grin>

</DIATRIBE>

Jann



At 09:33 AM 9/3/98 -0400, Leon Rothenberg wrote:
>Alan V. Shackelford wrote:
>> 
>> What I'm saying is that in my opinion the "newbie syndrome" is a normal
part
>> of the process. It is a shame it has to be that way. But to give a
numbered,
>> step-by-step instruction set for all these fine proggies would rob a newbie
>> of the joy of figuring things out. Besides, every machine is not the same,
>> so the incredible number of possible configurations makes a definitive
>> manual difficult to compile.
>> 
>
>I agree that a certain amount of figuring things out on your own is a
>good thing, however often crucial pieces of information can be hidden
>below levels and levels of counterintuitive muck, which besides being
>frustrating can be (forgive me here) an expensive outlay of time for
>your employer.  I am not saying that anyone should be spoon fed, however
>I am not sure that we should maintain an attitude that newbie questions
>are worth only enough information for them to ask another question.  I
>have found that if you point someone in the right direction in a kind
>and complete way, not only do they figure it out themselves, they don't
>come back to you with the same question.  A good example which just
>passed through this list was someone (I forget who) pointed to the FAQ
>and added the section number.  That is helpful and requires little
>effort on the part of someone who knows exactly where to look.  I myself
>found the answer to my own question after too hastily posting the other
>day in about 10 seconds.
>
>I cannot say that figuring things out has always been a joy.  But that's
>life, and hand-holding will certainly not help anyone to be
>self-reliant.  Providing a starting place or answering a question /and/
>pointing to the documentation will IMHO go a long way towards avoiding
>repeat questions and frustration on everyone's part.  Throwing the
>occasional bone will not make us any less good as hacker dooodzzzz,
>programmers or sysadmins.
>-- 
>-leon rothenberg

Jann Linder
Web Developer
San Francisco

http://www.jann.com/


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep  3 18:42:27 1998
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From: Jim Savoy <savoy@hg.uleth.ca>
To: MAJORDOMO-USERS@GREATCIRCLE.COM
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It is rather unfortunate for me that I had to ask a question
precisely at the time when everyone is fighting the newbie-vs-techie
wars, and not in the mood to help out. I admit that I am no mail
or majordomo expert. Whether or not I have "any business being in 
the machine room" is another kettle of fish. Our two mail experts
quit, and they handed me the job of setting up majordomo, along with
various other projects (we are very, very busy here and we all try 
to pitch in and get things going - not the ideal situation, but when 
we run into problems, we do our best to resolve them). My background 
is in VMS. I am totally new to Unix.

But I installed majordomo last May and it has worked marvellously ever 
since. Two weeks ago, I upgraded a number of my lists to include 
archiving. That is when the mail loops started and I have been unable 
to prevent the looping, despite checking my settings over and over and 
over, and experimenting for many hours. I realized today that I wasn't 
going to get any help from the majordomo-users list, so I decided to 
plow on, experimenting. I finally figured out what was wrong and fixed 
it myself. For newbies like me everywhere, here is what I found out:

When I first installed majordomo last May, I made a typo in the
majordomo.cf file. I set the whoami-owner variable to be
majordomo/@whereami instead of majordomo-owner/@whereami.

That simple typo was the cause of all of my headaches. Why didn't
I figure that out sooner? Because the looping started at the exact
time I created the aliases for archiving. I reasoned that since there 
had been no mail loops between the time I installed MD last May and 
two weeks ago, it must be something *I* did. But the real reason the 
mail never looped (punted back to itself) was because I had never 
configured a list incorrectly before (!). By misconfiguring a list 
two weeks ago (I failed to create an archive directory), I awakened 
the sleeping beastie. The problem had always existed. I just didn't 
realize it till two weeks ago.

All is well again...


 - jim savoy -
 - university of lethbridge -
 - savoy@hg.uleth.ca -


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 01:07:26 1998
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From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
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On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Vern Hoxie wrote:

> My "bitch" list (so far):
> 
> 1.  Too much reliance of "aliases" to "sendmail".  This practice
>     causes distortions of linear logic.  The magic involved in
>     passing control from program to program is something which David
>     Copperfield would envy.

Unless majordomo is to become an MTA, then piping is the natural way
to communicate between majordomo and the MTA.  Because of the dominance
of sendmail virtually all Unix MTAs have a similary aliasing mechanism, so
I can use sendmail aliases directly in exim (although I also do some
much nicer things with exim and majordomo).

It is a simple fact that for each address you set up and want public,
you will need an alias.  That is a fact about mail transport.  If you
want the address list-approval or list-request or list to be recognized
by your mail system you are going to have to tell your mail system that
they exist and what should be done with mail to those addresses.  Nothing
is going to change that fact.  When some of the addresses are to be
dealt with by programs, pipes in the aliases are the way to do it.

It sounds like you are objecting to pipes in general.  That will get us
into a debate that doesn't belong here.  Pipes provide an extremely
simple and robust way for one program to talk to another and allow
for a modularity of design that keeps systems and programs small.

 
> 2.  Implementation of "features" which are contrary to existing docs.
>     The instructions state that subscribers should send requests to
>     <list>-request with the specific request on a single line with the
>     action requested at the beginning of the line.
> 
>     In practice, if the words "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" are
>     anywhere in the first 15 lines of a message, that message will
>     bounce.  How can you disable this "feature"?  By defining the
>     boolean "administrivia" as false.  What logic connects the word
>     "administrivia" with performing a word search in subscriber posted
>     messages.

Factually wrong (on several counts).  If people send the messages to

   LIST-request

with admin messages they will be processed as documented.  But if people
send messages to LIST with admin messages they will be caught if this
feature is on.  Also, in the distributed version it is the first 10 lines,
not the first 15.  I've changed it to 3 lines at my site.

> 3.  What logic dictates that a "digest" should be a separate list?
>     Here again is an abusive use of the mailer's "aliases" file.

Some people want the digest version others want to bit by bit version.
They have to be members of different, though related, lists.

>     The desirability of a digest is to avoid so many individual
>     postings.  However, a subscriber to a the digest, must resubscribe
>     to the list to post a response to a message in the digest.

Not if the lists are set up correctly.

> 
>     Perhaps I have not been able to follow the pretzelized logic of
>     setting up a digest.

True.


> This suite of programs seriously lack design parameters and appears to
> a series of fantasies glued together.  This lack of logical design
> precludes the ability of anyone from generating a coherent manual.

Please take a deep breath and calm down a bit.  If something looks really
really stupid and seriously mis-designed, give the developers of the
system a small  benefit of a the doubt and ask yourself whether you may
have misunderstood.  In the three cases you mention, you have simply
got it wrong.

The system is glued together, but that is a good thing.  I don't want
majordomo or any other mailing list program to become a new MTA.  I
already understand my MTA.  Pipes are how I glue the various functions of
MD to my mail transport system.  It's also true that majordomo in all
released versions has a less unified feel to it then one might hope for.
The original tool was very simple and more things (like resend and
digests) all had to work with the way the original tools were designed.
MD shows its history.  Basically it appears to have started out to
help automate what people used to do when maintaining lists completely
manually.  In the old days we would simple have an alias like

 mylist:  :include: /usr/mail/lists/mylist
 owner-mylist:  me
 mylist-request: me

and simply edit the file /usr/mail/lists/list by hand when people wanted
to subscribe and unsubscribe.  MD automated that process and everything
has been built around that bit by bit.  In the next version, MD is being
entirely redesigned so that it does less of its stuff through the MTA. I
am not entirely convinced that that is a good idea, but I understand the
motivation behind it and support the effort.

MD was written to be installed and administered by people who understand
mail transport and pipes.  The existing docs don't make that clear, since
they aren't careful to separate docs for majordomo installers and
administrators from docs for list administrators (who don't have to
understand so much about the systems MTA.  For example, the list
administrators didn't have to know when I switched from sendmail to exim.)

If you aren't comfortable with pipes or your MTA you will have a problem
with just about any system that has to get messages from the MTA and pass
messages to the MTA.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 02:37:48 1998
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Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
References: <199809011627.JAA18483@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com> <x7soibwt6l.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com> <35f15ca1.76713839@mail.on-net.net> <35EF02EB.C72FBE3C@dal.net>
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Doug <Studded@dal.net> wrote:

> 	Admittedly, the list-manager documentation that comes with the
> distribution isn't so good, but there are at least two external sources
> for this on the web that are quite good.

Where can these be found? (I will try to contact the authors and ask for
permission to use parts of their text in the "Majordomo List-Owner Manual"
I'm working on.)

> 	So I guess my question is, what is the big deal?  Everything you need
> to know to make majordomo work is available to you, what is it that
> we're trying to accomplish?

The goal of my "Majordomo List-Owner Manual" project is to produce a 
document which

* Can be read and understood by every reasonably experienced user of
  Internet e-mail.

* Gives all the information about Majordomo, MTAs, MUAs and internet
  e-mail in general which is useful to know for list-owners of
  Majordomo mailing lists.

* Has version-specific information (i.e. information which relates only
  to Majordomo 1.x or only to Majordomo 2.x) clearly marked.

* Will always be freely available on the Web, and eventually be included
  in the Majordomo distribution.

* Has a companion mailing list where questiuons that are not yet
  answered in the "Majordomo List-Owner Manual" will be asked and
  answered (the answers will then be incorporated in the "Majordomo
  List-Owner Manual" by the editor of that document, i.e. me).

May blessings from the eternal God surprise and overtake you!
                                                                Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Zuerich, Switzerland. Backup e-mail address: NB@POBOX.COM

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> I am a very new user to Majordomo. I don't know anything about mail 
> transport, and like to learn about it.

The following is taken directly from my working copy of the "Majordomo
List-Owner Manual"; constructive criticisms are very welcome.

This particular chunk of text is based on a contribution from Dave Sill
(to be precise, he gave me permission to use the post on this subject
which he made on this list in May.)

-- snip --
On the internet, e-mail is transferred from one computer to another
by a method called SMTP, which means "Simple Mail Transport Protocol".
This protocol is defined and explained in a document called RFC821.
This and other e-mail related RFCs are available online from
http://www.imc.org/rfcs.html

In order to understand how internet mailing lists work, it is
important to know that SMTP is kind of like snail mail in that you
have a letter (message) inside an envelope. The letter has the
addresses of the sender and recipient(s) (e.g., the To/From/CC header
fields) but the envelope has the true sender/recipient addresses used
to deliver the letter. In the case of SMTP, the envelope addresses are
conveyed by the SMTP MAIL (sender or return path) and RCPT (recipient)
commands.

Just like the post office uses the envelope addresses to control
delivery or return undeliverable letters, so SMTP uses its envelope
addresses. If a message can't be delivered to one of the recipients,
an error message (commonly called a "bounce" message) is sent to the
sender (return path). 

Let's look at some typical scenarios.

Case 1: User-to-user

User A sends a message to user B. The From header field is A, the To
header field is B, the envelope return path is A, and the envelope
recipient is B. E.g.:

    (Envelope)
        Sender: A
        Recipient: B

    (Message)
        From: A
        To: B

        body of message

Case 2: User-to-user with BCC

User A sends a message to user B and BCC's user C. The From field is
A, the To field is B, the envelope return path is A, and the envelope
recipients are B and C:

    (Envelope)
        Sender: A
        Recipients: B, C

    (Message)
        From: A
        To: B

        body of message

Case 3: User-to-list

User A sends a message to list LIST. List mail is a little tricky
because the message is first delivered to the mailing list resender,
then forwarded by the resender to the subscribers. The first hop is
like Case 1 except the Recipient/To is the list submission address:

    (Envelope)
        Sender: A
        Recipients: LIST

    (Message)
        From: A
        To: LIST

        body of message

The second hop is like Case 2 except the Recipients are the
subscribers and the Sender is the list owner alias:

    (Envelope)
        Sender: LIST owner
        Recipients: LIST subscribers

    (Message)
        From: A
        To: LIST

        body of message

Note that by setting the Sender on the second hop to the list owner
address, bounces to undeliverable recipients are directed to the list
owner rather than the originator of the message. Unfortunately, some
MTA's (Mail Transport Agents, programs which use SMTP to transport
mail from from one computer to another) aren't fully SMTP-compliant,
and send error messages to an address taken from the From: or To:
headers of the list.

In the first of these cases (error messages sent to the From: address)
the error message is often very confusing for user A, who might think
that somehow something went wrong with his post to the mailing list.

The second case (error messages sent to the To: address) is much more
serious, because the To: address is the mailing list submission
address, where people submit messages for distribution to all subscribed
addresses. Clearly it must never happen that such error messages get
redistributed to all subscribed addresses, as that would not only annoy
all subscribers once, but probably also cause the broken MTA at the
remote host to generate another error message and send it also to the
mailing list submission address. These events would repeat again
and again in a loop. Such mail loops are one of the worst things which
can happen to a mailing list; see section ??? below for a detailed
discussion of possible precautions to prevent mailing loops. Some
of these precautions are built into Majordomo while others can be
added outside of Majordomo by the maintainer.
-- snap --

May blessings from the eternal God surprise and overtake you!
                                                                Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Zuerich, Switzerland. Backup e-mail address: NB@POBOX.COM

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Norbert Bollow writes:

> Doug <Studded@dal.net> wrote:
>> Admittedly, the list-manager documentation that comes with the
>> distribution isn't so good, but there are at least two external sources
>> for this on the web that are quite good.

> Where can these be found?

One is the "majordomo.ora" file that is included in Majordomo tarballs.

The second is probably the Majordomo FAQ, which is likewise included in
Majordomo tarballs.

[...]

FWIW, here is my own 'beginner's guide'

		  Majordomo List Administration in Brief

Any keyword enclosed in angled brackets, such as <list> or <passwd>, means
you type the appropriate string, without the brackets.  Any keyword
enclosed in square brackets, such as [<address>], are optional keywords and
might not be necessary or desirable.  Keywords surrounded by curly braces
with vertical bars means that you must provide one of the keywords in the
set.

passwd <list> <old_password> <new_password>
  Each list has an administration password associated with it.  This
  password is to prevent maliciousness and accidents which could corrupt
  the subscriber database or list configuration files.  It is required that
  you change your list's password immediately after the list is created,
  and recommended that you change it every few months.  You should not use
  the same passwords as any of your regular accounts.
  "list" is the name of your list, "old_password" is the current list
  password, and "new_password" is the new password for the list.

approve <password> {subscribe|unsubscribe} <list> [<address>]
  This is the command you will most often be using; it is used to subscribe
  (add) or unsubscribe (remove) people to and from your mailing list.
  "password" is your list's password, "list is the name of your list,
  "address" is the e-mail address of the person you want to add or remove.
  NOTE: the subscription address both must be valid and in a format to
  which the Majordomo server is able to deliver mail.

  If the approval command is longer than your screen is wide, you may have
  problems if your editor enforces word wrap.  There are two options:

  * Disable word wrap.  Not all editors will let you do this.
  * Wrap the line and place a backslash at the end of the first line:

    approve <password> subscribe <list> \
    Richard=L.=Pieri%IS%DFCI@eye.dfci.harvard.edu

who <list>
  This will provide a list of subscribers to your list.

which [<address>]
  This will tell you all lists to which you are (or <adddress is)
  subscribed.

help
  This will send you the Majordomo help file for general users.

These are by no mans all of the commands Majordomo understands, but they
are the command you are most likely to be using.  The administrator's help
file is not directly available from the server, but should be made
available to you when your list is created or you take over administration
from someone else.  I fyou need a copy of the complete list administrator's
reference guide, or if you have any other Majordomo-related problems,
please contact me, Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Caution: Happy Fun Ball may
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / suddenly accelerate to dangerous
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / speeds.
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 08:30:09 1998
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Date: Fri,  4 Sep 1998 11:11:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Sill <de5@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: book on mail transport?
In-Reply-To: <35eec5fe1c56002@mhbs.lsil.com>
References: <35eec5fe1c56002@mhbs.lsil.com>
X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs  Lucid
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Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, Tenn., USA
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X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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"Lieu T. Nguyen - yp=dv" <ltn@lsil.com> wrote:
>
>I am a very new user to Majordomo. I don't know anything about mail 
>transport, and like to learn about it. Is there any easy-to-understand 
>book on this subject (or manual, website...) that any of you would 
>recommend? 

Excellent question. Mail transport, as far as we're concerned, is
governed by RFC 821, Simple Mail Transport Protocol. See
http://www.gssnet.com/rfc/rfc821a.htm for a copy of the RFC. It's not
great reading, and it's a little outdated (a revision is in the
works), but it pretty much describes the way things should work.

A good, readable, up-to-date explanation of SMTP is available from
ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/proto/smtp.html. While you're there,
you might also want to check out
ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/proto/im.html, which is an overview of
Internet mail, and ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/proto/immhf.html,
which explains message headers.

If your interested in the details of a specific MTA, there are various
books and web sites devoted to them. Try www.(name of MTA).org (or
.com), for a start. For sendmail, there's a comprehensive, 1000-page
book called "Sendmail", by Bryan Costales that's considered the
"bible".

-Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 09:40:48 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id JAA09859; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:12:49 -0700 (PDT)
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Received: (from chris@localhost) by sparkie.osl.state.or.us (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA16618; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:24:00 -0700
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:23:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christopher Adams <chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: duplicate messages
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.980904092054.16592A-100000@sparkie.osl.state.or.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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I know this has been discussed on this list before, but I am looking for 
a solution to the problem of individual lists producing duplicate 
messages. I have messed around with the settings in Sendmail to change 
the queue intervals, but that doesn't seem to make a difference. I 
believe that it is only the one list, and the only approved sender does 
not have problems sending non-list mail. Any suggestions so that I can 
try to explain this to the list-owner as to why this is happening?

Christopher Adams
Automated Systems
Oregon State Library
chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 10:40:30 1998
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	by s1.easley.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA07914
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:27:04 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199809041727.NAA07914@s1.easley.net>
From: "Scott Rothgaber" <scott@easley.net>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:26:18 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Subject: Spam Tricks
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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Brand new to the list, so please excuse me if this has been covered 
ad nauseum. I checked the FAQ, but no dice.

I want to use the "bogus character" trick (!scott@easley.net) to 
eliminate spam which results from the trolling of mailing list 
archives. Obviously, this works fine when writing to humans, but not 
Majordomo.  

Has anyone come up with a simple and logical solution for this?

Thanks,
Scott


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*                                                       *
*  Easley Internet Solutions            AIM: ExCavSGT   *
*  Easley, SC  USA                      ICQ: 10722606   *
*  http://www.easley.net                864.859.2400    *
*                                                       *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 13:11:22 1998
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	by deliberate.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA04650
	for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:53:32 -0700
From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809041953.MAA04650@deliberate.com>
Subject: Splitting the work
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:53:32 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text
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Hi,

I'm working with a group who wants to split the work of running
a list.

Am I right that:

1.  owner-sample-outgoing:  is the address where the errors go?

2.  sample-approval: is where the s*bscribe requests and posts to be
                 moderated go?

3.  owner-sample: is where 1. and 2.  are usually pointed to?

But we could point  1 and 2 elsewhere?

Does anyone have any hints for us?

                                       *
Marilyn                               *
                                     *
                                    *
Marilyn Davis, Ph.D.-------------- * ---- eVote - online polling 
|                                 *       software for email lists:
|                          *     *        eVote-info@deliberate.com 
marilyn@deliberate.com      *   *         
(650) 965-7121 ------------- * * -------- http://www.deliberate.com 
                              *           

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 13:21:54 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:02:57 -0400
From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Spam Tricks
References: <199809041727.NAA07914@s1.easley.net>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 04 Sep 1998 16:02:57 -0400
In-Reply-To: "Scott Rothgaber"'s message of "Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:26:18 -0400"
Message-ID: <x790jz4pe6.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
Lines: 34
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.34/Emacs 20.3
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Scott Rothgaber writes:

> I want to use the "bogus character" trick (!scott@easley.net) to
> eliminate spam which results from the trolling of mailing list
> archives. Obviously, this works fine when writing to humans, but not
> Majordomo.

The flaw in your philosophy is that it 'works fine' at all.  It does not
work at all.

If you really want to stop spam, complain, systematically, about *EVERY*
bit of spam you get.  Complain to the ISPs being abused by spammers.
Complain to your Congresscritters, tell them you do not want to pay to
carry someone else's junk mail, tell them you are against the current bill
and that you want a *real* anti-spam law.

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24psttV2YTiWOri1xuDibNbSxMRFWfUzC8I7Zt2CgUf/m+17OYnzvHNXMVPLei6o
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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / 
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 13:36:52 1998
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Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP
	id OAA23059 for majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:27:50 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (from vern@localhost)
	by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NVH03963;
	Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:53:53 -0600
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:53:53 -0600
Message-Id: <199809041953.NVH03963@zebra.alphacdc.com>
From: Vern Hoxie <vern@zebra.alphacdc.com>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Multiple copies
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Why are so many subscribers to this list ignorant about the
functionality of a mailing list?

Specifically, the use of "To: " or "Cc: " to the submitter of a
message is redundant and rude.  There is no need to spam a posters
private mail box with messages which will be relayed by "Majordomo".

Yyuck!!

And this is supposed to be a list subscribed to by guru's???

vern

-- 
Vernon C. Hoxie                                     vern@zebra.alphacdc.com
3975 W. 29th Ave.                                        uucp: 303-455-2670
Denver, Colo., 80212                                    voice: 303-477-1780
                  Not one of us is as smart as all of us.

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 13:53:12 1998
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	by deliberate.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA04821
	for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:33:50 -0700
From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809042033.NAA04821@deliberate.com>
Subject: Small install problem
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk


Hi,

I'm finally upgrading to 1.94.4 after using 1.93 for years.

Everything seemed to go fine.  I ran the config-test as a regular
user and it was very happy.  In particular:

--------------------- euid/egid checks ---------------------
   effective user  = majordom (uid 500)
   effective group = daemon  (gid 2 300 )
---------------------- uid/gid checks ----------------------
   real      user  = majordom (uid 500)
   real      group = daemon  (gid 2 300 )
------------------------------------------------------------

Everything seems to work find, *except* the uns*bscribe.  From
the log:

Sep 02 13:17:09 deliberate.com majordomo[1789] {Marilyn Davis <marilyn@rosa.deliberate.com>} ABORT chown(500, 0, "/u1/majordomo/lists/eefc-listadm.new"): Operation not permitted

See that!  It's trying to chown to gid=0 but the gid is 2.

I fixed the majordomo script at that point so that there is now a
hard '2' in there and it works.  But that is such a bad hack.

Can anyone tell me the right way to fix it?

                                       *
Marilyn                               *
                                     *
                                    *
Marilyn Davis, Ph.D.-------------- * ---- eVote - online polling 
|                                 *       software for email lists:
|                          *     *        eVote-info@deliberate.com 
marilyn@deliberate.com      *   *         
(650) 965-7121 ------------- * * -------- http://www.deliberate.com 
                              *           

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 14:36:59 1998
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	by scicom.alphacdc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP
	id PAA25229 for majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:25:55 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (from vern@localhost)
	by zebra.alphacdc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PVH04052;
	Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:26:05 -0600
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:26:05 -0600
Message-Id: <199809042126.PVH04052@zebra.alphacdc.com>
From: Vern Hoxie <vern@zebra.alphacdc.com>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Vern Hoxie wrote:
>> A subscriber to a the digest, must resubscribe to the list to post
>> a response to a message in the digest.

St.Einar, Oslo - Norway wrote:
>  restrict_post = list:list-digest  
>  will allow subscribers of both lists to post to the list.

Thank you.  This is what I was looking for.  It is encouraging that
someone actually read my words.

The name 'restrict_post' is deceptive and the annotation in the
<list>.config file isn't very clear.

vern

-- 
Vernon C. Hoxie                                     vern@zebra.alphacdc.com
3975 W. 29th Ave.                                        uucp: 303-455-2670
Denver, Colo., 80212                                    voice: 303-477-1780
                  Not one of us is as smart as all of us.

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 14:49:47 1998
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:43:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Sill <de5@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: 'move' a list from one domain to another
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.980824182056.jb@jbarchuk.com>
References: <x7iujmmg74.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
	<XFMail.980824182056.jb@jbarchuk.com>
X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs  Lucid
Message-ID: <13797.17818.944702.551449@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, Tenn., USA
X-Face: "p~Q]mg{;e*}YR|)&Q/&Q\*~5UWfZX34;5M<gHyq0KvGt<$qi6=B7;$3~1p?Jc7-g?1vPVAc%YX$E6]%1jvk:,"f*jA|?~Cxb?WJ5gt}L?qsMAjROM~rHbK27yx=t,L/?IHb8@|cYg8"Y)~0IpU~J.^w,VW)u?M3q-AS{f`@RZ]Wll
X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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jim barchuk <jb@jbarchuk.com> wrote:
>
>Further pita with this is folks who need an 'approve' manual intervention to
>unsub -and- then resub. [sigh] 

auto+confirm is your friend. There's no need for manual approval since 
the confirmation proves that the svbscriber can read the target
mailbox.

Any reason this isn't the default svbscribe_policy?

-Dave


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 17:02:12 1998
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Message-ID: <35E5D355.4A18@ven.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:44:53 -0400
From: Freddy Esqueda <fesqueda@ven.net>
Reply-To: feasqueda@ven.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: issuing a config command
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Hello,

I was installing majordomo and when I generate a new list I do not know
how to issue a 'config <listname> <listname>.admin' command to
Majordomo, I don't exactly know what I have to do, please help!!!
That's step 7 of the NEWLIST file.

Thanks
Freddy Esqueda
fesqueda@ven.net


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 17:17:06 1998
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:18:52 -0700
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Andrew Tonry <drew@ctsg.com>
Subject: Majordomo prob: Permission denied
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I am running FreeBSD 2.2.7-Release, with Sendmail 8.9.  When running
'wrapper config-test', no problems are found.  When I send mail my
majordomo accout this it the response I get:

"/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"... Can't create output:
Permission denied

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  




Andrew Tonry
Carol/Trevelyan Strategy Group 
(541) 302-3344



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 17:30:52 1998
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From: marcum02@sprynet.com
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, majodordomo-workers@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:16:10 -0600
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Subject: Number of Subcribers in the Footer.
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We currently have who lists that list the number of 
subscribers to the list after it is run.

Is there any way we could have that number of subscribers show 
up in the footer of each message other than manually updating the 
config each time.

A variable maybe?  Or would that require something wild like having 
to automatically run a who list  and update the config file 
automatically after every subscribe.  

Thanks

Mike


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 17:46:29 1998
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From: "Leveron, John M." <LeveronJ@missouri.edu>
To: "'Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM'" <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: prob installing majordomo
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:39:51 -0500
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Hi!

     Trying to get Majordomo 1.94.4 working.

        Perl ver 5.004_04, running on Redhat Linux 5.1

           Using plain sendmail 8.8.7

Problem is listed in full detail at :
 
https://iatsites.missouri.edu/majordomo/

or I can gladly email you any pertinent info (trying to save bandwidth
:)

   Thanks In Advance for anyone who can point out what are hopefully
only newbie errors.

                  Best regards, John.


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 17:57:18 1998
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:15:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ben Esacove <ben@socrates.cs.swt.edu>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Majordomo ignoring my messages
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9808311610240.20926-100000@socrates.cs.swt.edu>
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I've installed Majordomo 1.94.4 according to the instructions, and when I
ran config-test (not as root) it worked fine.

However, I'm trying to create a list according to NEWLIST and when I get
to step 7, Majordomo appears to be simply ignoring me when I send the
config message.

On further investigation, Majordomo appears to ignore all messages I send
it.

Any help would be appreciated...

Thanks!

+-------------------------+
| Ben Esacove             |
| ben@socrates.cs.swt.edu |
+-------------------------+



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 18:22:15 1998
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:47:24 +0500
To: Benarson.Behajaina@swh.sk
From: Azfar Kazmi <oup@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Private list.
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199808280847.AA19407@swh.sk>
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Benarson Behajaina wrote:

>1. only users from my local domain (swh.sk) are allowed to
>   subscribe to the list "stuff" ? i.e I want to prevent
>   external users to subscribe to the list.
>
>or
>
>2. any user else than junk@swh.sk is allowed to
>   subscribe to the list "stuff" ?

Why don't you simply make the subscription policy "closed" and let yourself
decide who is allowed to be added?

--
Azfar Kazmi
oup@iname.com


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 18:36:14 1998
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Message-ID: <028201bdd446$7d6df7c0$6a414382@st.einar>
Reply-To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
From: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
To: "Majordomo Mailing List" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: How to use alternative config file with digest?
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:46:22 +0200
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  Hi!

  I cannot get the digest to work...and my ISP don't know a clue how to
  help me... Can someone send me a copy of _their_ working ???-digest.config
  file. :) Preferably, the digest should be created when the age of the
  oldest article in the queue exceeds one day OR the size of the digest
  exceeds 40KB in size.

  PS! Please remember to remove your listname and password from it!
  Feel Safe! :)

/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                                        ICQ 9199591






From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 18:52:42 1998
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:43:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Sill <de5@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: 'move' a list from one domain to another
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.980824182056.jb@jbarchuk.com>
References: <x7iujmmg74.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
	<XFMail.980824182056.jb@jbarchuk.com>
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jim barchuk <jb@jbarchuk.com> wrote:
>
>Further pita with this is folks who need an 'approve' manual intervention to
>unsub -and- then resub. [sigh] 

auto+confirm is your friend. There's no need for manual approval since 
the confirmation proves that the subscriber can read the target
mailbox.

Any reason this isn't the default subscribe_policy?

-Dave


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 18:54:51 1998
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From: domo@waasi.com
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:31:49 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Archive a list
In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19980827212035.007cd100@krusty-motorsports.com>
References: <x767fecoa2.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
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Hello,

We have been trying to get the list archive function working and have
had no luck so far.  If anybody with a working archive system could
share your configuration it would be a great help.

Thanks very much

Tom Sheldon 


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 19:06:34 1998
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From: "Uros Gaber" <uros.gaber@powercom-si.com>
To: <Majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: "aliasing/forwarding loop broken" PROBLEM
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:38:40 +0200
Message-ID: <002401bdd456$2bd817a0$0100a8c0@smthng.active.net>
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Hi!

I have just installed majordomo on 3 systems and on all of them I get the
same error message >aliasing/forwarding loop broken<. Why?!?
When I run 'wrapper config-test' it all works great, also all messages sent
to majordomo (subscribe/unsubscribe etc.) are processed great, but when I
try to send a message to a list with someone subscribed to it, I get this
error... (permission denided)

PLEASE HELP!!!

Thanx!
Uro9 Gaber
Slovenia (Slovenija)

ICQ UIN: 3250978
ICQ Message: 3250978@pager.mirabilis.com
GSM: +386-41-678-414
SMS Message: 678414@linux.mobitel.si




From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 19:22:15 1998
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
From: Sam Brooks <sbrooks@earthlink.net>
Subject: Filtering by MJ
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Hello,

On another list, one of members placed an "out of the office"
autoresponder on his mailbox.  Generated 945 messages back
to the list.  During the subsequent bitching, moaning, et al,
by list members--the following suggestion was made.

=====================================================================
You can put a filter that will stop all messages from Gozalas
you do this by sending a message to "majordomo@majordomo.*******.net, put
in the body of the message Gozalas address and all mail originating from him
will be filtered out, <snip>
=====================================================================

Question to the list members and gurus.

Is this true?  Never seen it documented in any MJ materials.

TIA for your response(s)

Sam
sbrooks@earthlink.net


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 19:32:53 1998
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From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Multiple copies
References: <199809041953.NVH03963@zebra.alphacdc.com>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 04 Sep 1998 18:46:30 -0400
In-Reply-To: Vern Hoxie's message of "Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:53:53 -0600"
Message-ID: <x7ww7jebsp.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
Lines: 32
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Vern Hoxie writes:

> Why are so many subscribers to this list ignorant about the
> functionality of a mailing list?

Becuase so many subscribers to this list are ignorant and "do not have
time" to learn how to do things correctly.

[...]

> And this is supposed to be a list subscribed to by guru's???

The gurus aren't the ones doing it.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNfBtvp6VRH7BJMxHAQFQPQQArZp2XfALEps7eaPVkG5Gp3PkwpZyo/o7
qmRAN7ms5n/NjuQ5fS71sD9B6aQRWFbE4Al51xw0m2pNpY6O4huex+f2QyRmyZhj
4YHy8lOTof61keCkPRnryiUQmvljalEV3V3OaQXcvQ8a7oJFXi36j72khy5mYWo8
5X6f2TOB3Gs=
=J1J3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / types of skin.
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 20:06:28 1998
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Spam Tricks
References: <199809041727.NAA07914@s1.easley.net>
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
In-Reply-To: "Scott Rothgaber"'s message of "Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:26:18 -0400"
Date: 04 Sep 1998 19:30:15 -0700
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Scott Rothgaber <scott@easley.net> writes:

> I want to use the "bogus character" trick (!scott@easley.net) to
> eliminate spam which results from the trolling of mailing list
> archives. Obviously, this works fine when writing to humans, but not
> Majordomo.

Majordomo needs your actual address in order to send you mail.  There
isn't any way around that.

> Has anyone come up with a simple and logical solution for this?

Ask the list owners of all of the lists that you're on to disable who.
Then you just have to trust the list owners not to use your addresses in
ways that you object to, and if you don't trust them, it would be best not
to join their lists.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)         <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 20:17:30 1998
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:07:02 +0900
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From: Jay Melton <jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
Subject: Returned mail: Insufficient permission: Error 0
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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Okay,

I got majordomo up and running.  I made up a new list to try out.  I (and a
colleague successfully subscribed), but when we tried to send to the list,
we got the message listed in the Subject above.

In the body I got:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"
    (expanded from:

and

 ----- Transcript of session follows -----
/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper: error: insecure usage
550 "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"... Insufficient permission:
Error 0

Any ideas?

Jay

Jay Melton (mailto:jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp)
Prefectural University of Kumamoto
1-100 Tsukide 3-chome
Kumamoto 862 Japan
Phone: (096) 383 2929  (O's not necessary outside of Japan)
Fax:   (096) 384 6765
Homepage: http://www.pu-kumamoto.ac.jp/~jay/jay.html




From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 20:24:29 1998
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From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
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Message-Id: <199809050133.SAA15212@ssol020.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple copies
To: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com (Vern Hoxie)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:33:28 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809041953.NVH03963@zebra.alphacdc.com> from "Vern Hoxie" at Sep 4, 98 01:53:53 pm
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Vern Hoxie said:
> 
> And this is supposed to be a list subscribed to by guru's???

Yup. And maybe the fact that you see it here would mean that the
"guru" way is right and the other is wrong? Hmmmm.

But let's forget about right/wrong and guru vs newbie. Consider that
it may just be a social convention for this particular list. It may
very well be the only list in the world that behaves this way (it
isn't), but the proper thing is to not criticize those of other
"cultures" and just go with the flow. When in Rome....

To give a technical reason: the list can be slow. I just saw a posting
of mine float by that I sent much earlier in the week. I know that
those experiencing problems prefer to get a direct answer right away
rather than having to wait for the list to catch up (delays,
administrivia bounces, etc). I know I certainly do.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 20:36:19 1998
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:13:11 -0400
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Kathleen Crane <kcrane@intermerce.com>
Subject: tricky aliases
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I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome, but I have one last question:

I'm attempting to set up a mailing list called '4internet'. I can
subscribe, unsubscribe, etc. but there is one problem: I'm running Open BSD
and I cannot create a user called 4internet (apparently the first character
in the name cannot be a number.) So, I created a user called
'majordomo4int' to act as the user and I defined 4internet (in the virtual
user table) to act as the virtual user that is mapped to majordomo4int. How
do I work it so that the list can still be named '4internet' with
'majordomo4int' functioning as the underlying user that handles all of the
list requests? I would guess that it has something to do with my aliases
file, but I'm not sure. If anybody could offer me any suggestions, I would
greatly appreciate it! Thanks!





Kathleen Crane
Systems Analyst
***********************
Interactive Commerce Group
email: kcrane@intermerce.com


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 22:09:06 1998
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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:06:43 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Plymouth
From: John Horne <J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Auth command
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Hello,

This is probably a dumb question, but I have looked through the FAQ, the
README file, the man page and the majordomo perl, but I'm still a bit lost as
to what the 'auth' command does!? It seems to be available to all majordomo
users (not just the list owners), but doesn't seem to do anything except
subscribe an address. I'm probably missing something obvious since no-one
else seems to have a problem with this, so could some kind soul tell me what
it is? :-)
(Note the sincere grovelling since this seems a dumb question...:-) )

Thanks,

John.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Horne                                     E-mail: J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk
Academic and Information Services              Phone :  +44 (0) 1752 - 233911
University of Plymouth, UK                     Fax   :  +44 (0) 1752 - 233919



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep  4 22:25:30 1998
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:18:22 +0000
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Subject: Re: MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_majordomo)
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Hi, 

 "mahfudz@faraday is not a valid return address."   
Should this not be mahfudz@faraday.something.   
mahfudz@faraday would be a bad address.

Tom




> Hi there,
> 
> I have just installed majordomo and is testing its operation.
> How could I fix the problem below:
> 
> ***************************************************************************
> >From majordomo@elect.itm.edu.my Fri Aug 28 22:23:51 1998
> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:23:50 +0800
> To: Majordomo-Owner@elect.itm.edu.my
> From: majordomo@elect.itm.edu.my
> Subject: MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_majordomo)
> 
> --
> 
> 
> MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_majordomo)!!
> 
> majordomo@elect.itm.edu.my: mahfudz@faraday is not a valid return address.
> 
> ***************************************************************************
> 
> FYI faraday is the host on which majordomo was installed.
> 
> Thanks in advanced.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mahfudz Zan
> 
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 00:45:07 1998
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	Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:25:27 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:25:26 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Andrew Tonry <drew@ctsg.com>
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo prob: Permission denied
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On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Andrew Tonry wrote:

> "/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"... Can't create output:
> Permission denied

Your alias is probably incorrect. There should be a "|" in the beginning:
majordomo: "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
            ^
            |

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 00:52:03 1998
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From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809050352.UAA05854@deliberate.com>
Subject: Re: Splitting the work
To: bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com (Bill Houle)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:52:27 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <199809050146.SAA15248@ssol020.sandiegoca.ncr.com> from "Bill Houle" at Sep 4, 98 06:46:17 pm
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Thank you.  This is just what I need to know.

Can you also tell me, what is the relationship between the moderator
and the restrict-post file?  

Marilyn Davis

> 
> Marilyn Davis said:
> > 
> > I'm working with a group who wants to split the work of running
> > a list.
> 
> The owner gets all bounces and is notified of all sub/unsub actions.
> moderator, set in the config file, will override the sample-approval
> address. So you could have three people in the picture: one person
> approving subscribes, another approving posts, and the owner watching
> over it all.
> 
> --bill
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 03:32:51 1998
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:26:53 -0400
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: "Vicki C. Walker" <vwalker@cfids.org>
Subject: help for newbie
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I hope I'm in the right place and someone can help me, or at least direct
me to a place where I can get some help! Forgive me if this is too detailed!

My ISP set up a Majordomo list so I can send news out to members of my
organization. I used to send a huge "bcc" list out, but my new ISP has
"spam control" so I can't send messages to more than 10 people at a time!
(that's another topic...) I'm not a techie or a computer guru, rather I'm
more of an advocate/journalist.

The ISP has experienced a lot of turnover and the only person who knew
about majordomo doesn't work there any more. They didn't send me any kind
of documentation or anything.

OK, here's the problem. The "welcome" message is totally confusing and
doesn't identify the purpose of the list or who owns it. No one knows what
they've been signed up for, even though they've expressly asked to be
signed up. 

How do I change that welcome message? (Please give me step-by-step
instructions -- I don't understand what a "script" is or how to get one. I
guess it's kind of like a macro?)

Also -- is there a way to change the "subject" of the welcome message so
that's more appropriate, too?

Thanks for any help you can give!!


Vicki Carpman Walker
Public Policy & Youth Outreach Coordinator
Research Grants Officer

The CFIDS Association of America
Advocacy, Information, Research and Encouragement for the CFIDS Community
PO Box 220398, Charlotte NC 28222-0398
Voice Mail: 800/442-3437	Fax: 704/365-9755
WWW: http://www.cfids.org    General E-mail: cfids@cfids.org


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 03:33:50 1998
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:33:06 +0200
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Giorgio Zarrelli <zarrelli@systems.it>
Subject: Problems creating digest
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi,

I have a problem with digest. When I send a message to  the mailing list,
it return such a message:


MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_digest)!!


open(MSG, ">/home/listserv/mail/digest//test-digest/001"): No such file
or directory


Here are my aliases, made from the example on the docs:


<bigger>listserv:"|/home/listserv/wrapper majordomo"

owner-Listserv:zarrelli

Listserv-Owner:zarrelli

test:"| /home/listserv/wrapper resend -l test -h dns.systems.it
test-outgoing"

test-digest:test

test-outgoing: :include:/home/listserv/lists/test, "|
/home/listserv/wrapper digest -r -C -l test-digest test-digest-outgoing",
"| /home/listserv/wrapper archive2.pl -a -m -f
/home/listserv/mail/digest/test/test.archive"

test-digest-outgoing::include:/home/listserv/lists/test-digest

owner-test:zarrelli

owner-test-outgoing:owner-test

owner-test-digest:owner-test

owner-test-digest-outgoing:owner-test

test-request:"| /home/listserv/wrapper request-answer test"

test-digest-request:"| /home/listserv/wrapper request-answer
test-digest"

test-approval:zarrelli

test-digest-approval:test-approval

</bigger>

Then here my majordomo.cf digest section:


<bigger>$digest_work_dir = "/home/listserv/mail/digest/";


In the directory


/home/listserv/mail/digest/test


I can find a file named


test.archive.9808


Where I can find the message I sent.


I use Linux red hat 5

and majordomo version 1.94.4

and perl 5.003

and Sendmail


Where is the problem?</bigger>




Best Regards,


Dr. Giorgio Zarrelli

Systems Comunicazioni


Via Olanda 6

20083 Vigano di Gaggiano (MI)

Italy


Tel: 02-90841814

Fax: 02-90841682


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 03:36:30 1998
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From: "Paul Pettit" <paulp@ccbnpts.com>
To: <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: RE: Restric_post
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:52:17 -0500
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> Victor Fung [vicfung@i1.net] wrote:
>
>
> Hello
>
>   I have looked for the answer of the following question on
> the FAQ and other documents of the Majordomo web site, but
> without success.
>   My ISP set me up a mailing list, and I need to restrict
> posting to subscribers only.  I know this is done by setting
> restric_post = <mylist> in the config file.  But my question
> is:  How do I do that?  If I can email a command to the server,
> what's the command to send?  If I need to rlogin to the server
> and edit the config file, using vi for example, where is this
> file located usually?
>   Thanks!
>
Send "config whatever-list list-password" to get your config file. Your ISP
should have provided the password to you, if they haven't then contact them
to get it.

The restrict_post process is outlined in the config file but what you are
more likely talking about is a "list-only post" list. How to do that is also
outlined in the config file. Using the who_access switch you can set the
list so only subscribers can post to the said list, restrict_post is used to
limit posting+ to a set list of authorised users/listmembers and requires a
second "list". This is all out lined in the various FAQ files that come with
majordomo, if you need them e-mail me (off list) and I'll send them.

Paul Pettit  (paulp@ccbnpts.com)
Consistent Computer Bargains, Inc. -----------

Windows NT crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams.



From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 03:55:22 1998
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From: Leslie Mikesell <les@Mcs.Net>
Message-Id: <199809050156.UAA09213@Jupiter.Mcs.Net>
Subject: Re: Multiple copies
To: vern@zebra.alphacdc.com (Vern Hoxie)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:56:02 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809041953.NVH03963@zebra.alphacdc.com> from "Vern Hoxie" at Sep 4, 98 01:53:53 pm
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According to Vern Hoxie:
> 
> Why are so many subscribers to this list ignorant about the
> functionality of a mailing list?
> 
> Specifically, the use of "To: " or "Cc: " to the submitter of a
> message is redundant and rude.  There is no need to spam a posters
> private mail box with messages which will be relayed by "Majordomo".
> 
> Yyuck!!
> 
> And this is supposed to be a list subscribed to by guru's???

Using the 'Reply to All' function of the mailer has been the
accepted way to respond publically to mailing list messages
since mailing lists were invented as far as I can tell.  Most
mailers only give 2 easy choices so unless the list inserts
a 'Reply-To:' the only way to get the list address is to take
them all.  If the list does  insert a 'Reply-To:' then you are
left with no easy way to send a private response.  Besides there
is often a delay going through the list or the person who needs
the answer may be on a digest list and wants the response immediately.
Why post if you don't want the replies?

  Les Mikesell
    les@mcs.com

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 05:35:35 1998
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From: "Scott Rothgaber" <scott@easley.net>
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:31:58 -0400
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Subject: Re: Majordomo ignoring my messages
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On 31 Aug 98, at 16:15, Ben Esacove wrote:

> On further investigation, Majordomo appears to ignore all messages I send
> it.

What does Majordomo's log say? Any help in mail.log? Have you tried 
redirecting the majordomo alias to yourself to see if at least this 
much works?



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From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 05:48:40 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Rothgaber <scott@easley.net>
Reply-To: Scott Rothgaber <scott@easley.net>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: tricky aliases
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On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Kathleen Crane wrote:

> I'm attempting to set up a mailing list called '4internet'

Numerals are not legal in usernames. You need to use a "stepping stone" 
alias.

1) Create a legal username ("internet" in this example)

2) Add the following to your inbound table

	4internet@whatever.com	internet

3) Add the following to your outbound table

	internet	4internet@whatever.com

That _should_ work.




From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 06:04:03 1998
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From: "Scott Rothgaber" <scott@easley.net>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:29:18 -0400
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Subject: Re: Archive a list
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On 28 Aug 98, at 9:31, domo@waasi.com wrote:

> If anybody with a working archive system could share your
> configuration it would be a great help.

Put the following in your aliases file (Lines split for 
readability)...

listname-outgoing:
:include:/home/majordom/lists/listname, listname-archive

listname-archive:
"|/home/majordom/wrapper archive2.pl
-f /home/majordom/archive/listname/listname -a -m"

This will create /home/majordom/archive/listname/listname.YYMM at the 
end of each month. I then run a script that gzip's this file and 
copies it to the FTP area.

Seeya!
Scott


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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*  Easley Internet Solutions            AIM: ExCavSGT   *
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From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 06:15:08 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:52:41 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>, majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Small install problem
Message-ID: <19980905125241.A18996@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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	majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
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Marilyn Davis wrote:

> Sep 02 13:17:09 deliberate.com majordomo[1789] {Marilyn Davis <marilyn@rosa.deliberate.com>} ABORT chown(500, 0, "/u1/majordomo/lists/eefc-listadm.new"): Operation not permitted
> 
> See that!  It's trying to chown to gid=0 but the gid is 2.

Sigh. The number of times I've seen this asked. If you look at the code,
you'll see it tries to chown the .new file to whoever owns the normal
list file, I think. So the list file must be owned by gid 0. `chgrp 2
/u1/majordomo/lists/eefc-listadm' might fix it.

> I fixed the majordomo script at that point so that there is now a
> hard '2' in there and it works.  But that is such a bad hack.

I can't see a problem with that. Personally, I don't see why MJ doesn't
just use its own uid and gid, rather than using whoever the list file
might be owned by. Perhaps someone can explain why it uses its current
behaviour.

> Can anyone tell me the right way to fix it?

See above.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 06:32:50 1998
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From: Norbert Bollow <nb@thinkcoach.com>
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-reply-to: <199809041953.NVH03963@zebra.alphacdc.com> (message from Vern
	Hoxie on Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:53:53 -0600)
Subject: Re: Multiple copies
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Vern Hoxie <vern@zebra.alphacdc.com> wrote:

> Specifically, the use of "To: " or "Cc: " to the submitter of a
> message is redundant and rude.

I disagree. I certainly don't mind getting an extra copy of replies to
messages which I have posted. If I get two copies of a message, it only
takes one keystroke to delete the extra copy.

But the extra copy is very valuable if the posting of the reply on the
list is delayed by an administrativa filter or something.

Also if my provider should happen to have problems which cause the
reply to be undeliverable, a Cc'd copy will be valuable, because the
sender would get a bounce and maybe resend the message to my backup
email address.

But of course there are people who don't want such extra copies of
replies, and of course such preferances should be honoured.
D. J. Bernstein has suggested a Mail-Followup-To: header which can
be used to express such preferances, see his discussion of the topic
at ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/proto/replyto.html

May blessings from the eternal God surprise and overtake you!
                                                                Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Zuerich, Switzerland. Backup e-mail address: NB@POBOX.COM

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 06:43:15 1998
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From: Norbert Bollow <nb@thinkcoach.com>
Prefer-Language: de, en, fr
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-reply-to: <13807.65441.350469.472475@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov> (message from Dave
	Sill on Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:11:59 -0400 (EDT))
Subject: Re: book on mail transport?
References: <35eec5fe1c56002@mhbs.lsil.com> <13807.65441.350469.472475@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
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Dave Sill <de5@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov> writes:

> A good, readable, up-to-date explanation of SMTP is available from
> ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/proto/smtp.html. While you're there,
> you might also want to check out
> ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/proto/im.html, which is an overview of
> Internet mail, and ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/proto/immhf.html,
> which explains message headers.

It should be noted that D. J. Bernstein, the author of these pages,
does not get along well with the IETF's rules and procedures for
revising internet standards, and some of the pages should not be
understood as accurately representing any internet standards (as
defined in strandards-track RFCs), but rather as explaining the
author's views on what the standards should be saying.

I'm saying this only because some things on these pages might be
confusing to someone who might now know who D. J. Bernstein is;
I certainly don't want to start a controversy about this!

May blessings from the eternal God surprise and overtake you!
                                                                Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Zuerich, Switzerland. Backup e-mail address: NB@POBOX.COM

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 07:00:12 1998
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From: "Scott Rothgaber" <scott@easley.net>
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:46:01 -0400
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On 27 Aug 98, at 17:39, Leveron, John M. wrote:

>      Trying to get Majordomo 1.94.4 working.

OK, here are some items from your config_test output:

> BAD:  $TMPDIR not defined by majordomo.cf

You need to define this, obviously. On line 193 of mine I have

$TMPDIR = $ENV{'TMPDIR'} || "/tmp";

                             ^^^^ Make sure this actually exists. I 
think it defaults to /usr/tmp or something.

While you're at it, just to be safe, do this:

ln -s /path/to/majordomo.cf /etc/majordomo.cf

> ---------------------- list directory ----------------------
> Hmmm, list directory  doesn't exist
>  or isn't a directory.
> Let me try to make it for you...
> BAD:  Couldn't create , No such file or directory

This smells like a permission problem. make sure that *EVERYTHING* in 
/home/majordom is majordom.majordom, mode 660/770, except wrapper, of 
course. Make sure that the user sendmail runs as (daemon under BSDI) 
has been added to the majordom group in /etc/group.

> --------------------------- log ---------------------------
> Logfile  didn't exist, trying to create...
> BAD:  Couldn't create logfile , No such file or directory

Another permission problem.



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*  Easley Internet Solutions            AIM: ExCavSGT   *
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From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 07:32:44 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2
To: John Horne <J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, fpb@BreszLand.COM
Subject: Re: Auth command 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:06:43 BST."
             <XFMail.980828100643.J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk> 
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--==_Exmh_969696424P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


John,

	My basic understanding is that this is used to help keep
	junk addresses from getting added to your mailing list.

	The auth code is sent to the user, and they have to send it
	back.  This prevents things like :

		subscribe me

	adding the address ``me'' to the mailist list which is of
	course bogus.  Major domo sends the auth code to ``me'' who
	of course never gets it and so the address isn't added to 
	your list.  This causes a little bit of extra load on your
	mail server and usually causes a few bounces to your ``owner''
	addresses, however for the greater good, i.e. keeping the list
	itself free from bogons, it is very good.
On Fri Aug 28 at 10:6 John Horne pondered:
>Hello,
>
>This is probably a dumb question, but I have looked through the FAQ, the
>README file, the man page and the majordomo perl, but I'm still a bit lost as
>to what the 'auth' command does!? It seems to be available to all majordomo
>users (not just the list owners), but doesn't seem to do anything except
>subscribe an address. I'm probably missing something obvious since no-one
>else seems to have a problem with this, so could some kind soul tell me what
>it is? :-)
>(Note the sincere grovelling since this seems a dumb question...:-) )
>
>Thanks,
>
>John.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>John Horne                                     E-mail: J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk
>Academic and Information Services              Phone :  +44 (0) 1752 - 233911
>University of Plymouth, UK                     Fax   :  +44 (0) 1752 - 233919
>



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--==_Exmh_969696424P--

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 07:45:23 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:30:41 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
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To: Jay Melton <jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Returned mail: Insufficient permission: Error 0
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On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Jay Melton wrote:

>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"
>     (expanded from:
> 
> and
> 
>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> /home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper: error: insecure usage
> 550 "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
> resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"... Insufficient permission:
> Error 0

Your alias looks unusual. I'd say it should be something like

macusers: "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper resend -l macusers
           macusers-outgoing"


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 09:07:49 1998
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From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Message-Id: <199809051540.IAA05419@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Filtering by MJ
To: sbrooks@earthlink.net (Sam Brooks)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:40:25 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199808312125.OAA22667@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Sam Brooks" at Aug 31, 98 02:25:16 pm
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Sam Brooks said:
> 
> On another list, one of members placed an "out of the office"
> autoresponder on his mailbox.

Proper autoresponders have a standard behavior to:
	ignore mail with a Precedence: (bulk|list|junk) header
	ignore mail that doesn't have the login in To/Cc
	ignore mail from 'daemon' processes

Thus, your lists should be safe from vacation and out-of-office
replies. Anything that sends vacation notices back to the list is 
*not* a proper autoresponder. It was either written by someone 
with no knowledge of what they were doing, or by Microsoft. :)

The correct thing to do is unzub the user to make them rezub when
they return, and flame the s**t out of them for (a) writing a poor
program, or (b) using someone else's poorly written program.

> Is this true?  Never seen it documented in any MJ materials.

Not documented because it doesn't exist. There is no one-line
command to instantly block an address. If you wanted to go that
route, you either edit majordomo.cf and put the address in the
global taboo checks, or update the taboo_headers in the one
particular list.config.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 09:14:54 1998
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From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Message-Id: <199809051554.IAA05635@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Splitting the work
To: marilyn@deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:54:11 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809050352.UAA05854@deliberate.com> from "Marilyn Davis" at Sep 4, 98 08:52:27 pm
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Marilyn Davis said:
> 
> Can you also tell me, what is the relationship between the moderator
> and the restrict-post file?  

moderate=yes requires that a posting contain a valid passwd before
being distributed. restrict_post=file requires the address of the
poster to be in 'file' before being sent. 

Failure to meet either condition (or others: header length, message
size, administrivia, etc) cause a BOUNCE to be sent to the moderator
for followup action. If 'moderator' is undefined in the config file,
the message will go to the list-approval address (which is often, but
not always, the same as the list-owner address).

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 10:41:29 1998
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From: "Lee Sweet" <lee@datatel.com>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:51:01 -0400
Subject: Arguments to mkdigest...
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I just went through finding out (read: looking at source) how to supply 
additional arguments to mkdigest in order to have it recognize the 
modified outgoing list aliases I'm using. (Normally you feed it the 
digest list name and the password; but if you modified the outgoing 
alias, you feed the list name, the alias name, and the list password.)

Is this documented anywhere that I missed?  I've seen the several 
references to (1) use mkdigest in cron to do a daily digest for a low-
volume list and (2) to be sure to change the 'normal' outgoing alias to 
hopefully stop filter-skippers, but not a cross-reference to the added 
mkdigest argument.  (Glad it's there!)  

And, of course, this is *NOT* more fuel for the little discussion on the 
lack of 'proper' documentation.  (I feel if you can't handle freeware, 
don't use it, *buy* something.)  Just wondering if I've missed some 
obvious piece of doc.   

(All this is 1.94.4, of course...)

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 10:42:54 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:24:39 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
cc: Majordomo Users List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: Splitting the work
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On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Marilyn Davis wrote:

> Can you also tell me, what is the relationship between the moderator
> and the restrict-post file?  

There is an unfortunate overlap of functions as defiend in the .config
file, so it is not a surprise that you ask.

If you have

  moderate = no

then the moderator option is entirely ignored, and if you have

  restrict_post

then message not on the restrict_post lists will be sent to

  list-approval

for approval.

If you set moderator = yes

then all postings to the list (except for those with approve passwords)
will be sent to the address given as moderator for approval irrespective
of any restrict_post setting.  Bascially moderate = yes overrules
restrict_post.

I learned this the hard way.  (We'll it wasn't all that hard, but I still
had a list not working right for a short time).

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 11:02:06 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:12:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: John Horne <J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Auth command
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.980828100643.J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk>
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On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, John Horne wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> This is probably a dumb question, but I have looked through the FAQ, the
> README file, the man page and the majordomo perl, but I'm still a bit lost as
> to what the 'auth' command does!?

The docs appear not to have caught up with the advances in MD.  The
auth command is designed specifically for user confirmation of subscribe
requests.

If you configure your list to subscription policy of auto+confirm or
open+confirm, then when a subscription request comes in, a confirmation
request is sent to the address to be subscribed.  The confirmation
request asks people to confirm that they really want to subscribe and
uses a one time authorization code to make sure that the person confirming
did recieve the confirmation request.

This does three (not very separate things)

   (1) It makes sure that there is a human (or something that can read md
       confirm requests) at the address subscribed.  Basically, these
       weeds out lots of bad address that might otherwise be subscribed,
       since so many sites can't get their From lines right.

   (2) It prevents (for the time being) people maliciously adding other
       people to lists.

   (3) It allows us to use auto instead of open, so that people can
       subscribe some address of theirs when mailing from another address.

When I found out about confirm I converted all of my open lists to
auto+confirm.  It's been worthwhile, but I've noticed that about 1 out
of 20 (I just made that number up) people get completely confused by the
confirmation request.  I've modified the text a bit[1], which has improved
matters.  Despite having to deal with the 1 out of 20, I find that this
makes list management much easier.

-j

Notes:  If you want to see my slightly modified text, just start
subscribing to a list at majordomo@cranfield.ac.uk such as bletchelypark.




--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 11:12:53 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:55:37 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: "Vicki C. Walker" <vwalker@cfids.org>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: How to change welcome message [Was: help for newbie]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980827152653.006d28a8@postoffice.cfids.org>
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On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Vicki C. Walker wrote:

> The ISP has experienced a lot of turnover and the only person who knew
> about majordomo doesn't work there any more. They didn't send me any kind
> of documentation or anything.

They should have sent you a document called "list-owner-info".  I am
sending a copy of that to you separately.  (I just sent it.  Don't reply
to the address that I sent it from though).

> How do I change that welcome message? (Please give me step-by-step
> instructions


I am assuming that when they set you up at your site they gave you a
list administration passwd.  If not, there is nothing you can to except
get them to learn about majordomo


Note that the password part below is NOT your login or username password.
Instead it is a very low security password used only for managing the
particular list.  Normally you should never send passwords by email.  But
the majordomo list admin passwords are low security passwords that have
no connection to anything other than majordomo list administration.

(1) Compose a mail message to majordomo at your site (if you don't know
the address, there is nothing anyone can figure out from here, but if
you subscribe or unsubscribe people to the list then it is the same
address you use for that (and the same password).

(2) The body of the message should say

newinfo LISTNAME PASSWORD

Thank you for joining the such and such announcement email list.  This
list is for people who ....

blah blah blah ... All the way to the end of what you send.


(3) You can check the message by sending mail to majordomo at your site
    with the message body

info LISTNAME

-j
--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 13:13:37 1998
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From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809051955.MAA12030@deliberate.com>
Subject: Re: issuing a config command
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:55:57 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <35E5D355.4A18@ven.net> from "Freddy Esqueda" at Aug 27, 98 05:44:53 pm
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Yes.  I noticed that the documentation was very vague and wrong there.
Luckily, I knew what it wanted, I think.

Send a message to:

majordomo@yoursite.com

The subject will be ignored.

The message should say:

config <listname> <administrative passwd>

I think.

If it doesn't work, look in your Log file for clues.

Good luck.

Marilyn Davis

> 
> Hello,
> 
> I was installing majordomo and when I generate a new list I do not know
> how to issue a 'config <listname> <listname>.admin' command to
> Majordomo, I don't exactly know what I have to do, please help!!!
> That's step 7 of the NEWLIST file.
> 
> Thanks
> Freddy Esqueda
> fesqueda@ven.net
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 13:30:39 1998
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From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809052005.NAA12085@deliberate.com>
Subject: Trouble with new install
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:05:58 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,

Thanks for the help earlier.

So, after testing the 1.94.4 on our backup machine, I brought it over
to this production machine.

Here, majordomo sent out duplicates of each message it sent.  There
was only one entry in the Log however.

My modem was off so I wouldn't receive any mail.  Was it a sendmail
issue?

Messages that go through resend, however, didn't duplicate themselves
but behaved nicely.

Any clues?

I'm back on 1.93 for now.  Sigh.

Marilyn Davis


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 13:43:55 1998
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From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809052002.NAA12062@deliberate.com>
Subject: Re: Majordomo ignoring my messages
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:02:35 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9808311610240.20926-100000@socrates.cs.swt.edu> from "Ben Esacove" at Aug 31, 98 04:15:34 pm
Content-Type: text
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Have you looked at your Majordomo Log file?  It probably has a clue.

Another place to look for clues is the sendmail maillog file.  See if
you can find the entry with the "|/stuff/wrapper majordomo" and see if
the Status is Sent or not.

Good luck.

Marilyn Davis


> 
> I've installed Majordomo 1.94.4 according to the instructions, and when I
> ran config-test (not as root) it worked fine.
> 
> However, I'm trying to create a list according to NEWLIST and when I get
> to step 7, Majordomo appears to be simply ignoring me when I send the
> config message.
> 
> On further investigation, Majordomo appears to ignore all messages I send
> it.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated...
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> +-------------------------+
> | Ben Esacove             |
> | ben@socrates.cs.swt.edu |
> +-------------------------+
> 
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 14:02:41 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:11:02 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Giorgio Zarrelli <zarrelli@systems.it>, Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Problems creating digest
Message-ID: <19980905201102.A20675@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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	Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
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Giorgio Zarrelli wrote:

> test-outgoing: :include:/home/listserv/lists/test, "| 
> /home/listserv/wrapper digest -r -C -l test-digest 
> test-digest-outgoing", "| /home/listserv/wrapper archive2.pl -a -m -f 
> /home/listserv/mail/digest/test/test.archive" 

Why are you creating digests and storing archives in the same
directory?  The idea is, AIUI, that you store archives in a
place where users can retrieve them from, on my system it's
/usr/majordomo/lists/foo.archive/foo.199809, for september 1998.
eg,

$filedir = "$listdir";
$filedir_suffix = ".archive";

from my majordomo.cf.

> $digest_work_dir = "/home/listserv/mail/digest/"; 

Removing that trailing slash might help. It might not of course, but
it's worth trying.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 14:32:08 1998
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	Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:51:58 -0700
From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809051951.MAA12016@deliberate.com>
Subject: Re: Small install problem
To: ben@scientia.demon.co.uk (Ben Smithurst)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: marilyn@deliberate.com, majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <19980905125241.A18996@scientia.demon.co.uk> from "Ben Smithurst" at Sep 5, 98 12:52:41 pm
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> 
> Marilyn Davis wrote:
> 
> > Sep 02 13:17:09 deliberate.com majordomo[1789] {Marilyn Davis <marilyn@rosa.deliberate.com>} ABORT chown(500, 0, "/u1/majordomo/lists/eefc-listadm.new"): Operation not permitted
> > 
> > See that!  It's trying to chown to gid=0 but the gid is 2.
> 
> Sigh. The number of times I've seen this asked. If you look at the code,

Thanks for answering one more time.  Maybe this should be in the FAQ
or something.  I tried to read everything before I asked -- 3 times.

> you'll see it tries to chown the .new file to whoever owns the normal
> list file, I think. So the list file must be owned by gid 0. `chgrp 2
> /u1/majordomo/lists/eefc-listadm' might fix it.

I'm sure you're right because when I tried it on another machine, it
tried to chgrp to 200 which is the group of the lists there.

> 
> > I fixed the majordomo script at that point so that there is now a
> > hard '2' in there and it works.  But that is such a bad hack.
> 
> I can't see a problem with that. Personally, I don't see why MJ doesn't
> just use its own uid and gid, rather than using whoever the list file
> might be owned by. Perhaps someone can explain why it uses its current
> behaviour.
> 
> > Can anyone tell me the right way to fix it?
> 
> See above.

Yes.  Excellent.  Thank you so much.

Marilyn Davis

> 
> -- 
> Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/
> 
> PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
>      http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep  5 15:58:44 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:41:01 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
cc: Sam Brooks <sbrooks@earthlink.net>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Badly behaved autoresponders [Re: Filtering by MJ]
In-Reply-To: <199809051540.IAA05419@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
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On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Bill Houle wrote:

> Sam Brooks said:
> > 
> > On another list, one of members placed an "out of the office"
> > autoresponder on his mailbox.
> 
> The correct thing to do is unzub the user to make them rezub when
> they return, and flame the s**t out of them for (a) writing a poor
> program, or (b) using someone else's poorly written program.

Also, flame the shit out of their postmaster!  What I tend to do is
scold the user in such a way that they feel very very bad for using
such aweful software and cc their postmaster.  That way, if their
postmaster had installed the software in question, they user can
then yell that way.

What I want to do is write a one time document which I can refer people
to that does the flaming for me.

I have a draft of something similar for M[TD]As that send delivery reports
to From's or Reply-To's instead of to envelope froms.  See

  http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/docs/email/badbounce.html

It's still a draft.  If you have comments, let me know.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 16:13:56 1998
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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:00:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Angelo M. Richichi" <angelo@mail.rumarson.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: question
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980904105806.2976A-100000@mail.rumarson.com>
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I want to be able to restrict who can post to my mailing list.  So i put
the appropriate file name of email addresses that can post in the
<list>.config file.  But it still allows other people to post regardless.
What can be the problem? and what can I do to try to solve this

thanx

angelo



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 16:30:21 1998
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From: Bill Forman <wforman@equis.com>
To: "'majordomo-users@greatcircle.com'" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Help adding a new list
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:40:26 -0600
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I need to add a new mailing list to an existing set of lists.  I have
searched for the instructions and have been unsuccessful.  I need to add
this list quickly.

Is anyone willing to tell me how to do this quickly.

Thanks for your help.


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 16:45:26 1998
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From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809022055.NAA31288@deliberate.com>
Subject: chown fails on unsubscribe
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi,

I'm finally upgrading to 1.94.4.  I've been using 1.93 all these
years.

Everything looks fine.  The ./wrapper config-test is very happy
with the installation.  The Makefile knows that the group id is 2.

But, on the unsubscribe, the Log says that it can't chown on
list_name.new.  It is trying to change to a group of 0 when the group
is 2. 

Can anyone tell me where I should fix this?

Marilyn



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 16:58:58 1998
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:29:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cheng Hung-Yan <chenghy@phys.sinica.edu.tw>
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: How to append a signature to articels?
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Sir:

I'm using sendmail on Linux Redhat 5.0 with majordomo 1.94.4
I created a mailing list for our group and it works properly.
But I want to append a signature,  which states the name of the
list and the address of the list manager, to every article
posted to the list.  Could you please tell me how to do it ?

Redgards,

Kevin Cheng



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 17:14:02 1998
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From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
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Message-Id: <199809050146.SAA15248@ssol020.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Splitting the work
To: marilyn@deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809041953.MAA04650@deliberate.com> from "Marilyn Davis" at Sep 4, 98 12:53:32 pm
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Marilyn Davis said:
> 
> I'm working with a group who wants to split the work of running
> a list.

The owner gets all bounces and is notified of all sub/unsub actions.
moderator, set in the config file, will override the sample-approval
address. So you could have three people in the picture: one person
approving subscribes, another approving posts, and the owner watching
over it all.

--bill



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 17:29:36 1998
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	Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:32:54 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:32:53 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Kathleen Crane <kcrane@intermerce.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: tricky aliases
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826091311.007b5bc0@intermerce.com>
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On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Kathleen Crane wrote:

> I'm attempting to set up a mailing list called '4internet'. I can
> subscribe, unsubscribe, etc. but there is one problem: I'm running Open BSD
> and I cannot create a user called 4internet (apparently the first character
> in the name cannot be a number.)

You don't have to create users for the list. There is no meaning to. The
only user that you have to create is the majordomo user. For the lists you
only create entries in /etc/aliases.



-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se




From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 17:44:00 1998
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Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 14:47:20 -0500
From: Carolyn Rokke <carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
Organization: Rolling Prairie Library System
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I)
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To: majordomo-users <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Help with config
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Hello all,
I am a rank newbie to majordomo.  I have installed the program, and with
a few false starts, have gotten to the point where I send the config
message to majord of "config ref-talk ref-talk.admin"

I am working on Digital UNIX 4.0b.

The first time I tried to send the config message, I got back a blank
response.  I thought I did something wrong and deleted it.  I have never
received a response from majord since -- it gets the message, then just
keeps it.

Anyone have any idea why this is happening?

Also, where is the initial password set for the majordomo list owner? 
Is it in that config file I can't get?

Confusedly yours :-)
Carolyn
-- 
Carolyn Rokke
Rolling Prairie Library System
Decatur, IL  62522
217 429-2586
carolynr@rpls.lib.il.us


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 17:53:05 1998
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Message-ID: <35EF2FC2.75331A2D@cape.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:09:39 +0000
From: Tony Gordon Smith <tony@cape.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: tony@geckoware.com
Organization: Gecko Software Limited
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Hi all,
As a first time majordomo user, I've run into a problem that
I could do with some help on.
The system is

SunOS spectrum 5.5.1 Generic_103640-03 sun4u sparc
SUNW,Ultra-1
Majordomo is ver1.94.4

Running

    wrapper config-parse

yields no errors or suggestions, but any commands to
majordomo, e.g.

    wrapper majordomo
        help

gives the message

" mj_majordomo: ABORT
Majordomo@spectrum.demo-net.geckoware.com:  is not a valid
return address.


cannot chdir(mqueue): No such file or directory"

This e-mail address is valid and accepts incoming mail.
Any suggestions ?
TIA

--
                        Tony Gordon Smith
Gecko Software Limited                    http://www.geckoware.com
London, England, UK                       tel :+44-7000 043 256
                                          fax :+44-7000 740 175





From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 17:54:22 1998
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From: "Scott Rothgaber" <scott@easley.net>
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:49:01 -0400
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Subject: Re: issuing a config command
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On 27 Aug 98, at 17:44, Freddy Esqueda wrote:

> how to issue a 'config <listname> <listname>.admin' command to Majordomo,

Send an email to majordomo with the following in the message body:

	writeconfig listname passwd

Then, be sure to edit lists/listname.config to make sure that the 
options are set the way you want them.



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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 18:02:38 1998
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Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:59:50 +0200
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From: claudio minutella <minutella@tic.ch>
Subject: bouncing automatic to list
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hi,

i have setup a unmoderated but open+confirm list.
also administrive = no

when now someone sends a posting to the list, i want that
this mail is been checked ba majordomo itself, if it
has a correct password in the first line. if that is true,
remove the password and send it to the list, regardless if
the sender is subscribed or not. just if the password is 
correct - then go for it.

sound not that difficult ... but i still didn't get it !

any idea of the testlist.conf ???

thanks ... claudio 



------
claudio minutella                           mail : minutella@tic.ch
tic the internet company ag                 www  : http://www.tic.ch
nidfeldstrasse 5                            tel  : +41 41 318 36 81
CH - 6010 kriens                            fax  : +41 41 318 36 86
------
what is essential is invisible to the eye (antoine de saint-exupery)
............................ why use WINDOWS, when there is a door ?


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 18:17:43 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:26:00 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Kathleen Crane <kcrane@intermerce.com>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: tricky aliases
Message-ID: <19980905132600.C20345@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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Kathleen Crane wrote:

> I'm attempting to set up a mailing list called '4internet'. I can
> subscribe, unsubscribe, etc. but there is one problem: I'm running Open BSD
> and I cannot create a user called 4internet

What makes you think you need to? To run Majordomo, you need one extra
user: majordom, or something. You don't need an extra user per list.
Then just create aliases:

4internet: "| /usr/majordomo/wrapper resend -l 4internet 4internet-outgoing"
4internet-outgoing: :include:/usr/majordomo/lists/4internet
owner-4internet: kcrane

... etc

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 18:32:44 1998
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Received: from [192.58.194.87] by send1d; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 11:43:42 PDT
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:43:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Martin Michalowski <martinmic@yahoo.com>
Subject: Microsoft Exchange problem.
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

I'm about to install Majordomo software for our company .  However, I
don't want to do it before I'll know that it will work at all with our
mailing system.  My problem is that I cannot subscribe to the mailing
list (majordomo-users@greatcircle.com) using my exchange email account
from work (this is why I'm using this yahoo email).  Whenever I send a
request for subscription I do receive the confirmation email back. 
However, when I respond to the confirmation email, I never hear from
Majordomo again.  Afterwards, if I check for subscription with "which
my@email" it shows that I'm not on any lists.  For some reason the
Majordomo can't reach me (my email bounces?) and I don't know what to
do about it.  

When I subscribe, I do specify my email address which is known to
work.  I'm thinking that at some point the Majordomo software looks at
the "From:" address and develops a problem there.




==
 ===
 Dr. Martin Michalowski, III
 Carleton University Aerospace Engineering
 e-me @ martinmic@yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 18:58:08 1998
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 14:50:09 +0900
From: Jay Melton <jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
Reply-To: jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp
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Hello,

I got majordomo 1.94.4 up and running (with Perl 5.004_01) on MkLinux
DR3 (I'm using Sendmail 8.8.8.x).  I made up a new list to try out.  I
(and a colleague) successfully subscribed, but when we tried to send to
the list, we got the message Returned mail: Insufficient permission:
Error 0.

In the body I got:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"
    (expanded from:

and

 ----- Transcript of session follows -----
/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper: error: insecure usage
550 "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"... Insufficient
permission: Error 0

I've checked the FAQs and the archives.  There are a couple of
references to this problem, but I've checked as well as I can, and I
can't find the error.  I know that it must something simple (like
permissions, etc.), but I don't know.  Can anyone help me with this?

Jay


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 19:07:22 1998
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References: <199809020739.AA15000@swh.sk> from "Benarson Behajaina" at Sep 2, 98 09:39:03 am
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4.10 - How do I set it up so that the originator of a message doesn't get a copy of his/her own 
message back?
You can't. Sorry. The "metoo" setting in sendmail has no effect after a message is piped through 
an external program. Unless you're willing to give up piping messages through "resend", there's 
no way to stop this. 
 - Mike@ultimate-web.net

> > Benkbenk wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > I want to know how i can configure the list so the sender won't get the
> > > > > mail which they send to themselves.
> > > > 
> > > > Read the FAQ.
> > > > 
> > > I've read it again and again but stil can't found.
> > > Could you tell me which part is it???
> > 
> > You'll find the latest version of Majordomo FAQ at
> > http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/majordomo-faq.html
> > 
> > See FAQ - 4.10
> 
> Isn't the correct answer that in majordomo you _cannot_ configure the 
> list that way?  What am I missing?
> 
> 
> -malgosia
> 




From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 19:21:26 1998
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To: Bill Forman <wforman@equis.com>
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Help adding a new list 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:40:26 MDT.
             <24FA77225FA5D111869F0000C025B6F22FA5A9@mailman.equis.com.137.246.204.in-addr.arpa> 
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 17:18:12 -0700
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	We have a program to do this, so I don't generally do it
	by hand.
	
	but in general, you can go into the aliases file.
	Take another list, copy the list information for that
	list and make another list by subsituting the name of the
	old list for the new list.
	
	That is the fastest route.
	
	Then you need to go into the ~majordom
	area and create the correct files. You can do this
	by copying each of the files from the old list
	and then editing them.
	
	You might want to create a program to do this , so that you
	can do it faster.
	
	
			


Bill Forman <wforman@equis.com> writes:

 % I need to add a new mailing list to an existing set of lists.  I have
 % searched for the instructions and have been unsuccessful.  I need to add
 % this list quickly.
 % 
 % Is anyone willing to tell me how to do this quickly.
 % 
 % Thanks for your help.
 % 

-----
John Sechrest          .         Helping people use
   PEAK -               .           computers and the Internet
Public Electronic         .            more effectively
Access to Knowledge,Inc       .                      
850 SW 15th Street              .            Internet: sechrest@peak.org
Corvallis Oregon 97331               .                  (541) 754-7325
                                            . http://www.peak.org/~sechrest

From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 19:35:37 1998
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Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:46:01 -0700
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Dan Sugalski <sugalskd@osshe.edu>
Subject: Re: Multiple copies
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At 01:53 PM 9/4/1998 -0600, Vern Hoxie wrote:
>Why are so many subscribers to this list ignorant about the
>functionality of a mailing list?
>
>Specifically, the use of "To: " or "Cc: " to the submitter of a
>message is redundant and rude.  There is no need to spam a posters
>private mail box with messages which will be relayed by "Majordomo".
>
>Yyuck!!

That's a matter of personal opinion and list etiquitte for a particular
list. I'm on a number of lists where there can be a delay of up to four
hours on messages, so Cc:'s to the original poster (and anybody that chimes
in) is the only way to keep a reasonably quick discussion going. It's also
reasonable for lists that gateway to newsgroups, as the original poster may
never see the reply if you don't Cc: to them.

					Dan

---------------------------------------------"it's like this"--------------
Dan Sugalski   (541) 737-3346                even samurai
SysAdmin                                     have teddy bears
Oregon University System                     and even the teddy bears
sugalskd@ous.edu                             get drunk


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 19:53:53 1998
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From: marcum02@sprynet.com
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:30:48 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Editing Major-Domo Files Offline
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References: <35EA78C0.AFCCAEE8@afina.es>
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> If you have access to the server though, I just edit the config files
> directly, ~majordom/lists/foo.config
> 

I seem to have a problem editing majordomo files.

We're running majordomo with qmail... 

I use UltraEdit to edit the files and CuteFTP to download them ...I make sure

that I upload and download all files using ascii transfer type.

I also check the lists sent to us for uploading using UltraEdit and delete any spaces shown

The lists work fine when we create them in a telnet session and then configure 
the list and add subscribers via e-mail.

Problems seem to occur when downloading files, editing them in UltraEdit
and then uploading them back.

Sometimes the lists just stop working after if I upload names and other little
quirks ..seem to happen like approvals etc.. addressed to the list owner subscribe
and unsubscribe requests for one fail and end up in my default mail account.

I'm lost as to why things like this would happen after just downloading editing and
uploading the file back.

Kinda wondering if it would be better to edit majordomo files using microemacs?






From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 19:56:49 1998
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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:13:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
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Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Kathleen Crane <kcrane@intermerce.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: tricky aliases
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On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Kathleen Crane wrote:

> I'm attempting to set up a mailing list called '4internet'. I can
> subscribe, unsubscribe, etc. but there is one problem: I'm running Open BSD
> and I cannot create a user called 4internet 

You don't need to create a user for each and every list.  You do need
to create a user for the majordomo installation as a whole, but it would
be a mistake to name it after your first list.  Just call that user
majordomo (or majordom if you are restricted to 8 character usernames).

You will need to create an alias for "4internet" but that does not require
creating such a username.  How you do so depends on what mail transport
system you are using.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 20:09:52 1998
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:48:07 -0400
To: warrenk@on-net.net (Warren Killian)
From: "Harrington B. Laufman" <hlaufman@postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Restricting Postings
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
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At 04:08 PM 8/31/98 GMT, you wrote:
>Hello List,
[...]
>I can't seem to restrict postings.  
[...]
[...]
># Majordomo List: dilwad
>dilwad: :include:/usr/local/majordomo/lists/dilwad
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[...]

Highlighted line is incorrect.  Mail to dilwad should go through resend.
As it sits, its just an alias, majordomo is not involved at all in mail
to dilwad.

You need to change that line and add a line - something like:

dilwad-out: :include:/usr/local/majordomo/lists/dilwad
dilwad: "|/usr/local/majordomo/wrapper resend -l dilwad dilwad-out"

Harrington
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Harry Laufman  Manager, Computer Operations
       OSU College of Food, Agricultural and Environmental Sciences
                    E-Mail: laufman.1@osu.edu
       101 Vivian Hall                 Voice: 614-292-6554
       Columbus, Ohio 43210            FAX  : 614-688-4009
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 20:21:50 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id PAA24373; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:06:45 -0700 (PDT)
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Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [193.212.1.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id BAA24497 for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 01:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from st.einar (ti01a22-0120.dialup.online.no [130.67.10.120])
	by online.no (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA20820
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:56:11 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <00d101bdd8ab$793a19e0$850a4382@st.einar>
Reply-To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
From: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
To: "Majordomo Mailing List" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: How to use alternative config file with digest?
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:59:17 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

  Me:
> I cannot get the digest to work...and my ISP don't know a clue how to
> help me... Can someone send me a copy of _their_ working ???-digest.config
> file. :) Preferably, the digest should be created when the age of the
> oldest article in the queue exceeds one day OR the size of the digest
> exceeds 40KB in size.
>
> PS! Please remember to remove your listname and password from it!
> Feel Safe! :)

  There must be a problem with GreatCircle's Majordomo (or something). The
  above message was sent August the 30th but never reached the list before
  now - or is there a problem with Bigfoot?!

  A few other late posts I received today:

  Andrew Tonry:
  Subject: Majordomo prob: Permission denied
  Sent: August 28 1998 02:18

  Freddy Esqueda:
  Subject: Issuing a config command
  Sent: August 27 1998 23:44

  marcum02@sprynet.com:
  Subject: Number of Subcribers in the Footer.
  Sent: August 29 1998 19:16

  John M. Leveron:
  Subject: Prob installing majordomo
  Sent: August 28 1998 00:39

  Have anyone faced the same thing (late posts)?


/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                                        ICQ 9199591





From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 20:40:25 1998
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Received: from Default (sf-dnpqq-122.compuserve.net [209.154.103.122])
	by m7.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA03227
	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 02:30:30 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199809030930.CAA03227@m7.sprynet.com>
From: marcum02@sprynet.com
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 02:27:01 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Majordomo Manual?
References: <E0zEHwW-0002rW-00@nz15.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980902214310.19568B-100000@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b)
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk


> I really get the feeling that people are not actually trying to _use_ the
> software and figure out how it works, but are expecting a level of support
> which is simply unreasonable in this context.  I've installed a bunch of
> freeware, and MajorDomo is not unusually poorly documented in my view.
> 
> You get what you pay for, and live with it, or you contribute to making it
> better.  I can't claim to have done the latter with MajorDomo (because
> I've been happy to live with it, and made only very minor, peripheral
> contributions).
> 
> I guess the signal:whining ratio is getting to me :)
> 
> Patrick
> 
 Hey support is available... for our customers we configure lists, provide 
step by step instruction and tips to use their list successfully, etc.. 

Our customers don't mind paying for the service they get... and it probably
saves them the time from having to spend hours figuring things out for themselves.

It's just a matter of preference... some would rather pay a service and others would rather
spend time learning for themselves.

Regardless..let's just have fun with it and help each other out... I wouldn't feel comfortable
criticizing the documentation unless I had prepared something to replace it.

mike@ultimate-web.net






From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 23:07:15 1998
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Received: from alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us (Alpha1.RPLS.LIB.IL.US [206.187.34.100]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id MAA11959 for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:15:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from carolyn.rpls.lib.il.us ([206.187.34.22]) by alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us with SMTP;
          Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:33:02 -0500
Message-ID: <35F03EE8.3021@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 14:26:32 -0500
From: Carolyn Rokke <carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
Organization: Rolling Prairie Library System
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: majordomo-users <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Help in configuring Majordomo
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Hello,

I installed majordomo on our Digital UNIX 4.0b Alpha server a few days
ago.  The config wrapper test came out ok.

I think I am missing some basic, but major point somewhere along the
way.

I created a user, called majord (because somebody told me to).

I have all the files for majordomo in /webz/majordomo directory, and
have set aliases both in majordomo.aliases, and the alias file found in
the sendmail directory for the listserv I want to create, called
ref-talk.

I, personally, am the owner of this list.  But I was told to create the
majord user and su to it to keep the listserv stuff out of my regular
stuff.

So, the aliases for listserv owner and the like I have made "majord"

When I send a e-mail with one of the commands to majord, it just sits
there.  What could I be missing that majord doesn't know it is supposed
to go to the majordomo file and find something to do with that command?

I suppose this is one of those questions with no simple answer, but I
feel like I'm on the edge of getting this.  I downloaded Dave Smith's
config file scripts, which seem to make a lot of sense to me, but unless
I can get the acutal mail process to work, I'm kind of stuck.

I did look at the archives for Sept & August, and while I saw a similar
question, didn't see any leads to the answer.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone out there can provide.
Carolyn
-- 
Carolyn Rokke
Rolling Prairie Library System
Decatur, IL  62522
217 429-2586
carolynr@rpls.lib.il.us


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep  6 23:56:53 1998
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Received: from vidar.erilab.com (mpk104.erilab.com [208.224.156.104]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id NAA22952 for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:34:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from erilab.com (willow.erilab.com [192.168.174.2])
	by vidar.erilab.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA02740
	for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <35EF0058.1F5FFBEA@erilab.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 13:47:20 -0700
From: Rainer Enders <Rainer.Enders@erilab.com>
Organization: Ericsson Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: 550 :include:... Cannot open ... World writable directory
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EF824F8E0A585BEDDCB83C41"
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------EF824F8E0A585BEDDCB83C41
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

I just setup majordomo-1.94.4.

I'm getting:

:include:/var/Mail/lists/testlist
    (expanded from: <testlist@erilab.com>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 :include:/var/Mail/lists/testlist... Cannot open
/var/Mail/lists/testlist: World writable directory
554 <testlist@erilab.com>... aliasing/forwarding loop broken


I tried different things:

- Setting
O DontBlameSendmail=safe
O DontBlameSendmail=groupwritabledirpathsafe
in sendmail.cf

- Changing permissions of the testlist file to 600, 660, 640, 666, 777,
etc.

But the problem persists.

Is there any way I can get this working?

Please reply also to me direct since I'm not subscribed
to the list.

Thanks,
Rainer.

--------------EF824F8E0A585BEDDCB83C41
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Rainer Enders
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

begin:          vcard
fn:             Rainer Enders
n:              Enders;Rainer
org:            Ericsson Inc.
adr:            1555 Adams Drive;;;Menlo Park;CA;94025;U.S.A.
email;internet: Rainer.Enders@erilab.com
title:          Senior Systems Engineer
tel;work:       (650) 853-4303
tel;fax:        (650) 853-4333
tel;home:       (510) 409-1365
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard


--------------EF824F8E0A585BEDDCB83C41--



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 00:09:33 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id OAA23750; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:57:10 -0700 (PDT)
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Received: from vidar.erilab.com (mpk104.erilab.com [208.224.156.104]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id JAA08356 for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from erilab.com (willow.erilab.com [192.168.174.2])
	by vidar.erilab.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA20596
	for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <35EC23E2.498A0E6F@erilab.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:42:10 -0700
From: Rainer Enders <Rainer.Enders@erilab.com>
Organization: Ericsson Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: "|/var/mail/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"... User unknown
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2F44C5515E07B55336DB7B9F"
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------2F44C5515E07B55336DB7B9F
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

I'm trying to install majordomo-1.94.4 on FreeBSD 2.2.7 with
sendmail 8.9.0. I followed all the Install directives.

My aliases file:

majordomo: "|/var/mail/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
owner-majordomo: renders
majordomo-owner: renders

and off course I did newaliases etc.

But if I try to send a test message it looks like:

echo 'lists' | mail majordomo
> "|/var/Mail/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"... User unknown

I guess its a sendmail problem and I saw similar posting earlier in the
mail
archive but no answer that solved my particular case. There must be
folks running majordomo on FreeBSD and sendmail???

The only point were I have a deviation from the Install is the username
which in my case is "majordom" since most OS's don't like users with
more then 8 characters. Is this a problem? Why is this suggested in the
Install file since it won't work on many OS's anyways?

Rainer.

--------------2F44C5515E07B55336DB7B9F
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Rainer Enders
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

begin:          vcard
fn:             Rainer Enders
n:              Enders;Rainer
org:            Ericsson Inc.
adr:            1555 Adams Drive;;;Menlo Park;CA;94025;U.S.A.
email;internet: Rainer.Enders@erilab.com
title:          Senior Systems Engineer
tel;work:       (650) 853-4303
tel;fax:        (650) 853-4333
tel;home:       (510) 409-1365
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard


--------------2F44C5515E07B55336DB7B9F--



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 01:32:12 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id OAA23776; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:57:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) id OAA23768 for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:57:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with SMTP id PAA13231 for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail4 [129.144.134.6]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id PAA03389 for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:49:27 -0700
Received: from mpk07.eng.sun.com (mpk07.Eng.Sun.COM [129.144.51.31])
	by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id PAA27065
	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:49:26 -0700
Received: from rory by mpk07.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
	id PAA06767; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:50:13 -0700
Message-Id: <199809012250.PAA06767@mpk07.eng.sun.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Oliver <Mike.Oliver@Eng.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Mike Oliver <Mike.Oliver@Eng.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: majordomo-<listname>-outgoing
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: bRxPctN6khpK9O4Jxcy2eg==
X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.1 CDE Version 1.2.1 SunOS 5.6 sun4u sparc 
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Leon Rothenberg wrote:
>                              The only solution I can think of off the
> top of my head is to make the ":include:" alias something cryptic, so
> that potential spammers would have trouble guessing it:
> 
>        test:    "|/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/wrapper resend -l test
> test-zzoutgo898"
>        test-zzoutgo898:  :include:/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/lists/test
> 
> Are we missing something obvious here?

Section 3.6 of the FAQ discusses this problem in depth.  One thing you
may be missing is that, depending on how your MTA is configured, it can
be very easy for a spammer to discover the "cryptic" outgoing alias by
means of the EXPN and/or VRFY SMTP commands:

  % telnet yourhost smtp
  ...
  vrfy test
  250 <"|/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/wrapper resend -l test test-zzoutgo898"@yourhost>
  expn test
  250 <"|/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.3/wrapper resend -l test test-zzoutgo898"@yourhost>
  
You may be be able to defend against this by configuring your MTA to
refuse EXPN and VRFY for the list address, or by configuring it to
refuse externally-generated mail for the outgoing alias.

It's also possible that your MTA will "leak" the name of the outgoing
alias by pasting it into a Received header in the outbound message.

I suggest that before anyone else chimes in on this thread they at least
review the FAQ to make sure that they're not just rehashing old
information: <http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/majordomo-faq.html#3.6>

Regards, Mike.
-- 
mike.oliver@eng.sun.com



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 01:37:36 1998
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Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) id PAA24107 for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from riker.CompleteIS.com (Riker.CompleteIS.com [206.144.247.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id HAA17400 for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:12:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bigbang (bigbang.ancept.com [206.146.185.171])
	by riker.CompleteIS.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29061
	for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:24:20 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <001601bdd746$8a6613b0$abb992ce@bigbang.ancept.com>
From: "Jeff Stromberg" <Jeff@Ancept.com>
To: <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Can't create output: Permission denied 
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:24:19 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

I just set up majordomo and the config-test works fine. I have configured a
list according to the instructions. My aliases are as follows: (I have tried
both of these configurations, and get the same error)

# entries for diglib mailing list
#diglib:                        "|/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper
resend -l diglib diglib-list"
#diglib-list:
:include:/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/diglib
#owner-diglib:          jeff,
#diglib-owner:          jeff
#diglib-request:                "|/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper
request-answer diglib"
#diglib-approval:       jeff

diglib:         :include:/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/diglib
owner-diglib:   jeff,
diglib-request: "|/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper request-answer
diglib"
diglib-approval:        jeff

-----------
When I try to subscribe, the owner of the list gets the following message
(at the end of this note). What output does it not have permission for?

Please email me back at this address.

Thank You,
Jeff



Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:46:24 -0500
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@emu.ancept.com>
To: owner-majordomo@emu.ancept.com
Subject: Returned mail: Can't create output: Permission denied
Parts/attachments:
   1   Shown     7 lines  Text
   2   Shown   360 bytes  Message
   3   Shown   965 bytes  Message
   3.1 Shown     8 lines  Text (charset: ISO-8859-1)
----------------------------------------

The original message was received at Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:46:24 -0500
from root@Riker.CompleteIS.com [206.144.247.10]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
    (expanded from: <majordomo@emu.ancept.com>)


  [ Part 2: "Included Message" ]

Reporting-MTA: dns; emu.ancept.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; Riker.CompleteIS.com
Arrival-Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:46:24 -0500

Final-Recipient: RFC822; majordomo@emu.ancept.com
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; "/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper
majordomo"@emu.ancept.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:46:24 -0500


  [ Part 3: "Included Message" ]

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:06:35 -0500
From: Jeff Stromberg <Jeff@Ancept.com>
To: majordomo@emu.ancept.com

    [The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set]
    [Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set]
    [Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]

subscribe diglib

Jeff Stromberg
Ancept, Inc.
Jeff@Ancept.com
(612) 677-1385
Fax: (612) 677-1391



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 01:59:25 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id PAA23987; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:00:54 -0700 (PDT)
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From: "james hartley (sys admin)" <jhartley@irwin-mdei.army.mil>
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: help decyphering error messages. 
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Hello, I an running a couple of lists for our web service and I have
been running across some errors.  Some of the addresses on the bounces
list exist and are current. I have to admit the line we are using is a
shared T1 line and we are about 15 hops away from the sprint backbone. I
was wondering if these bounces are being caused by slow bandwidth or in
conjunction with the mail priority . 

My system is an Ultra 1. running solaris 2.5 and majordomo 1.94.1

the following is a transcript of a common message, can someone help me
determine the cause of the problem. I particularly need to understand
what the transcript section is trying to tell me. All of e-mail
addresses in this post exist and can be reached with regular mail. 

Thanks 

************************************************************************


        Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: mcagcc.usmc.mil: host
not found)
   Date: 
        Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:24:25 -0700
  From: 
        Mailer-Daemon@irwin-mdei (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
     To: 
        owner-sdmt@irwin-mdei.army.mil


The original message was received at Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:39:15 -0700
from majordom@localhost

   ----- The following addresses had delivery problems -----
hank_mccutchen@nps.gov  (unrecoverable error)
    (expanded from: :include:/export/home/majordomo/lists/sdmt)
wsfisher@efdswest.navfac.navy.mil  (unrecoverable error)
    (expanded from: :include:/export/home/majordomo/lists/sdmt)
otis_diehlp@mcagcc.usmc.mil  (unrecoverable error)
    (expanded from: :include:/export/home/majordomo/lists/sdmt)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 hank_mccutchen@nps.gov... Host unknown (Name server: nps.gov: host
not found)
kanicol@compuserve.com... Deferred: Connection refused by compuserve.com
550 wsfisher@efdswest.navfac.navy.mil... Host unknown (Name server:
efdswest.navfac.navy.mil: host not found)
550 otis_diehlp@mcagcc.usmc.mil... Host unknown (Name server:
mcagcc.usmc.mil: host not found)

   ----- Original message follows -----
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From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 03:46:26 1998
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Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 10:05:15 -0700
Subject: can't distribute messages to list
From: "Enrique Terrazas" <terrazas@pangloss.ucsf.EDU>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
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Hello,

I have RedHat 5.1 and Majordomo 1.94.4 installed.  Installation seemed to go
fine, and the config-test reported no problems (see below).  I created a
mailing list, and users can subscribe without problems.  However, when I try
to send a message to the list, I get the following error:

<<
   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
:include:/home/majordomo/lists/mis-gsa
    (expanded from: mis-gsa-doit)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 :include:/home/majordomo/lists/mis-gsa... Cannot open
/home/majordomo/lists/mis-gsa: Permission denied
Message delivered to mailing list mis-gsa-doit
Reporting-MTA: dns; valhalla.ucsf.edu
Arrival-Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:52:41 -0700
>>

The permissions for said file are:
-rw-rw-r--   1 majordom majordom       95 Sep  2 15:13 mis-gsa 


I'm not sure what the problem is.  The permissions must be correct since new
users can be added to  /home/majordomo/lists/mis-gsa.  Any thoughts?  TIA.

The config-test follows:

<<
------------------------------------------------------------
---------------- Config-test for Majordomo ----------------
------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------- Obvious things: ---------------------
------------------ environment variables ------------------
   HOME=/home/majordomo
   LOGNAME=terrazas
   MAJORDOMO_CF=/home/majordomo/majordomo.cf
   PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb
   SHELL=/bin/bash
   USER=terrazas
--------------------- euid/egid checks ---------------------
   effective user  = majordom (uid 509)
   effective group = majordom terrazas (gid 509 500 )
---------------------- uid/gid checks ----------------------
   real      user  = majordom (uid 509)
   real      group = majordom terrazas (gid 509 500 )
------------------------------------------------------------

        Non obvious things that cause headaches:

------------------------------------------------------------
Good: 'require'd /home/majordomo/majordomo.cf okay.
Good: found ctime.pl okay.
Good: found majordomo_version.pl okay.
Good: found majordomo.pl okay.
Good: found shlock.pl okay.
Good: found config_parse.pl okay.

You're running Majordomo Version 1.94.4.

--==> Majordomo home directory is /home/majordomo.
------------------- Include directories -------------------
        /home/majordomo
        /usr/lib/perl5/i386-linux/5.00404
        /usr/lib/perl5
        /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux
        /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl
        .
--------------------------- Home ---------------------------
Good: changedir to /home/majordomo succeeded.
Good: Created a mock lock file.
---------------------- temp directory ----------------------
Good: Created a temp file in $TMPDIR (/usr/tmp).
---------------------- list directory ----------------------
Good: list directory /home/majordomo/lists has good permissions.
--------------------------- log ---------------------------
Good: logfile /home/majordomo/Log exists and is writeable.
------------------------- Mailers -------------------------
You have defined a mailer for delivery.
Attempting to verify that this is a valid mailer...looks okay.
You have defined a mailer for delivering administrative messages.
Attempting to verify that this is a valid mailer...looks okay.
------------------ Checking majordomo.cf ------------------
Checking to see if there are new variables that should be in
your majordomo.cf file...Nope, none that I see.

Have you configured where Majordomo is?
        $whereami is valhalla.ucsf.edu
Good: yup!
----------------------- end of tests -----------------------
>>


Enrique Terrazas, MD
<mailto:terrazas@labmed.ucsf.edu>
<http://pangloss.ucsf.edu/~terrazas/>


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 03:52:53 1998
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Message-ID: <35EE7D20.38F1FFBF@online.edvg.co.at>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 13:27:28 +0200
From: n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at (Niels Hansa)
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To: tibbs@hpc.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III)
CC: angela.puchner@afim.de (Angela Puchner), <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: controlling
References: <35CDB0C6.E77240A9@afim.de> <35D00AA2.CEBA89C7@online.edvg.co.at> <ufavhnztsz8.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu>
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--------------msF1507BF6755B14405399FE9F
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--------------36BA0BF21027BAF1CF5B46A5
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Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "NH" == Niels Hansa <n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at> writes:
> 
> NH> developers pls comment ;-)
> 
> You have the source; feel free to become a developer.  I can't see myself
> ever using anything more than what logmail
> (ftp://ftp.hpc.uh.edu/pub/majordomo/logmail.shar) provides except for the
> activity report that the logsummary script already in the distribution
> provides.
> 
>  - J<

I have installed the logmail perl script. Now our Perl developer has
adapted the script, so that it also accumulates the number of mails
distributed over the list. (see attachment)
More over the logfile also contains the amount of data transfered 
(mail body only, since loglist dumps the mailheader initially). 

The report then looks like this:

Mail Traffic Report for list 'newtest' for Thu Sep  3 13:11:03 1998
========================================================================
 Report interval: Since Tue Aug  4 00:00:01 1998 (30 days)
     Oldest post: Wed Aug 12 12:23:03 1998
Most recent post: Mon Aug 31 16:16:29 1998
     Total posts: 1
     Total mails: 3
   Total traffic: 642 Bytes (Mail body only)
Report threshold: 
========================================================================

Top 10 Posters (representing 100.0% of the total traffic)
[...]

I thought, I might post this, so more ppl interested in this feature can
use it. Backward compatibility should be available. 

The ".log" changes from:

902924350:902924784:20:0:user@domain.dom (User):Topic

to:

904572530:904572989:9:0:user@domain.dom (User):3:214:Topic

where "3" is the amount of distributed mails for this posting 
and 214 ist the byte-count of te mailbody. This way old logs can still 
be used, with this adaption.

thx,
Niels
--------------36BA0BF21027BAF1CF5B46A5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="loglist"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="loglist"

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
#
# loglist -- logs details about mail messages
#
# Copyright 1997 by David Wolfe <david_wolfe@risc.sps.mot.com>. May be
# freely used, modified, and redistributed under the same terms as Perl.
# Absolutely no warranty of any kind. Author is not responsible for any
# damage or loss caused by use of this program.
#
# Modified logmail to assume the logfile from just a list name and $HOME.
#
# Thanks to MailWatch v0.31 by Shayde (?) for the basis of this program.
# See http://www.homeport.org/~shevett/mailwatch.html for details.
# I started out just fixing some problems in mailwatch, but ended up
# rewriting the whole thing.
#
# 02/07/97 dwolfe - Modified from logmail for Mj lists
# 02/11/97 dwolfe - Fix to remove embedded newlines
#			(requires fix to Mail::Header 1.06)
# 02/17/97 dwolfe - Extended FoldLength to prevent embedded newlines
# 02/19/97 dwolfe - Lock file directly instead of through File::BasicFlock

$VERSION = $VERSION = "1.03";
use Getopt::Std;
use Mail::Header 1.09;
use Date::Parse;
use strict;
use vars qw{ $opt_h };

(my $ME = $0) =~ s(.*/)();

die <<_USAGE_ unless getopts('h') && !$opt_h && @ARGV;
usage:	$ME logfile

_USAGE_

my $list = shift;
my $logfile = "$ENV{HOME}/lists/$list.archive/.log";
die "$ME: '$logfile' doesn't exist\n" unless -e $logfile;

my $memberfile = "$ENV{HOME}/lists/$list";
die "$ME: '$memberfile' doesn't exist\n" unless -e $memberfile;

my $recipients = 0;
my $bytecount  = 0;

my $mail = Mail::Header->new(\*STDIN, Reformat => 1, FoldLength => 1000) or
    die "$ME: Mail::Header constructor error\n";
$mail->unfold;

my ($post_date, $rcvd_date, $sender, $subject, $time_stamp);
my $incl_count = my $line_count = 0;

while (<STDIN>) {
    $line_count++;
    $incl_count++ if /^( : | > | [a-z]+> )/xi;
    $bytecount += length($_);
}

# Extract the received date from the envelope

chomp($time_stamp = $mail->get('From ', 0) || "");
$time_stamp =~ s/^\S+\s+// or
    die "$ME: envelope date parse error: '$time_stamp'";
$rcvd_date = str2time($time_stamp) || 0;

chomp($sender  = $mail->get('From', 0) || "");

chomp($subject = $mail->get('Subject', 0) || "");

# If the Date time stamp won't parse, try removing the timezone field

chomp($time_stamp = $mail->get('Date', 0) || "");
$post_date = str2time($time_stamp) || 
    (($time_stamp =~ s/\s+\S+\s*$//) && ($post_date = str2time($time_stamp))) ||
    $rcvd_date;

open(MEM, $memberfile) or die "Can't open '$memberfile': $!\n";
while( <MEM> )
	{
	$recipients++;
	}
close(MEM);

open(LOG,">>$logfile")	or die "Can't open '$logfile': $!\n";
flock(LOG, 2)		or die "Can't lock '$logfile': $!\n";

print LOG "$post_date:$rcvd_date:$line_count:$incl_count:$sender:$recipients:$bytecount:$subject\n";

close(LOG)			or die "Error closing '$logfile': $!\n";;

exit 0;

--------------36BA0BF21027BAF1CF5B46A5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="loglstrpt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="loglstrpt"

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
#
# loglstrpt -- generates reports from loglist logs
#
# Copyright 1997 by David Wolfe <david_wolfe@risc.sps.mot.com>. May be
# freely used, modified, and redistributed under the same terms as Perl.
# Absolutely no warranty of any kind. Author is not responsible for any
# damage or loss caused by use of this program.
#
# Thanks to MailWatch v0.31 by Shayde (?) for the basis of this program.
# See http://www.homeport.org/~shevett/mailwatch.html for details.
# I started out just fixing some problems in mailwatch, but ended up
# rewriting the whole thing.
#
# 02/07/97 dwolfe - Modified for Majordomo list reporting.
# 03/27/97 dwolfe - Fixed getopts string.

$VERSION = $VERSION = "1.01";
use English;
use Time::Local;
use Getopt::Std;
use strict;
use subs qw{ date_dist midnight time_dist top_list };

my $AGE_DEF = 30;	# Posting age default
my $THS_DEF = 0;	# Posting threshold default (0 = all)
my $TOP_N   = 10;	# Top N report count
my $WIDTH   = 72;	# Report histogram max width

my $DBLBAR = '=' x 72;
my $SGLBAR = '-' x 72;
my @MONTHS = qw{ Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec };
my $ADAY   = 24 * 60 * 60;
(my $ME = $0) =~ s(.*/)();

use vars qw{ $opt_D $opt_P $opt_T $opt_a $opt_d $opt_h $opt_p $opt_s $opt_t };

die <<_USAGE_ unless getopts('adtpsP:T:hD') && !$opt_h && @ARGV == 1;
usage:	$ME [-adtps] [-P days] [-T threshold] listname

where:	-a display all reports (default)
	-d display post distribution by date
	-t display post distribution by time
	-p display top 10 posters
	-s display top 10 subjects
	-P age (in days) of posts to report (default $AGE_DEF)
	-T number of posts threshold to report (0 = all; default = $THS_DEF)

_USAGE_

$opt_a = 1 unless $opt_d || $opt_t || $opt_p || $opt_s;
$opt_P ||= $AGE_DEF;
$opt_T ||= $THS_DEF;

my ($eff_date, $post_date, $poster, $rcv_date, $subject);
my (%post_dates, %posters, %subjects);
my ($recipients, $bytecount, $mailcount, $traffic) = (0, 0, 0, 0);

my $count       = 0;
my $newest_date = 0;
my $oldest_date = $BASETIME;
my $cutoff      = midnight(time - ($opt_P || $AGE_DEF) * $ADAY);
my $now         = localtime($BASETIME);
my $list        = shift;
#@ARGV           = "$ENV{HOME}/lists/$list.archive/.log";
@ARGV           = "/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/$list.archive/.log";


# Scan the log file extracting entries meeting the specified criteria.
# Three hashes are built, all of which keep a count of the hash keys:
# %post_dates is keyed by the posting date, %posters is keyed by the
# sender's e-mail address, and %subjects is keyed by the (cleaned up)
# subject text.

while (<>) {
    chomp;

    $recipients = $bytecount = 0;
    undef $subject;
    ($post_date, $rcv_date, $poster, $recipients, $bytecount, $subject) = (split(":", $ARG, 8))[0,1,4,5,6,7];

    if(!defined($subject))
        {
        $recipients = $bytecount = 0;
        ($post_date, $rcv_date, $poster, $subject) = (split(":", $ARG, 6))[0,1,4,5];
        }

    next if $post_date < $cutoff;

    $count++;
    $eff_date    = $post_date < $rcv_date ? $post_date : $rcv_date;
    $oldest_date = $eff_date if $eff_date < $oldest_date;
    $eff_date    = $post_date > $rcv_date ? $post_date : $rcv_date;
    $newest_date = $eff_date if $eff_date > $newest_date;

    $post_dates{$post_date}++;

    $posters{$poster}++;

    $subject =~ s/^\[[^:]*:\s*(.*)]$/$1/;
    $subject =~ s/\s+$//;
    $subject =~ s/^re:\s*//i;
    $subject =~ s/^fwd?:?\s*//i;
    $subject =~ s/\s*\(?fwd\)?\s*$//i;
    $subjects{$subject}++;

    $mailcount += $recipients;
    $traffic   += ($bytecount * $recipients);
}

printf <<END, scalar localtime $cutoff, scalar localtime $oldest_date, scalar localtime $newest_date, $opt_T || "";

Mail Traffic Report for list '$list' for $now
$DBLBAR
 Report interval: Since %s ($opt_P days)
     Oldest post: %s
Most recent post: %s
     Total posts: $count
     Total mails: $mailcount
   Total traffic: $traffic Bytes (Mail body only)
Report threshold: %s
$DBLBAR
END

if ($count) {
    top_list(\%posters,  "Posters",  $count, $opt_T, $TOP_N)
	if $opt_p || $opt_a;

    top_list(\%subjects, "Subjects", $count, $opt_T, $TOP_N)
	if $opt_s || $opt_a;

    date_dist(\%post_dates, $opt_P, $opt_T)
	if $opt_d || $opt_a;

    time_dist(\%post_dates, $opt_T)
	if $opt_t || $opt_a;
}

exit 0;


# midnight - Calculate midnight and return the time integer representing
# the midnight for the date supplied.

sub midnight {
    return &timelocal(1, 0, 0, (localtime($ARG[0]))[3..5]);
}	


# Display top N lists in decreasing order

sub top_list {
    my ($hashref, $listname, $total, $threshold, $limit) = @_;
    my ( $pmax, @toplist);
    my $lines = 0;
    my $max   = 0;
    my $top   = 0;

    for (sort {$hashref->{$b} <=> $hashref->{$a}} keys %{$hashref}) {
	last if $lines++ >= $limit || $hashref->{$ARG} <= $threshold;
	push(@toplist, $ARG);
	$top += $hashref->{$ARG};
	$max  = $hashref->{$ARG} if $hashref->{$ARG} > $max;
    }
    printf <<END, $top / $total * 100;

Top $limit $listname (representing %3.1f%% of the total traffic)
$SGLBAR
END

    $pmax = length(sprintf "%.1f", $max / $total * 100);
    $max  = length($max);
    for (@toplist) {
	printf "%$max.d (%$pmax.1f%%)  %s\n", $hashref->{$ARG},
	    $hashref->{$ARG} / $total * 100, $ARG;
    }
}

# date_dist - display the number of postings by day from a hash of
# counts keyed by posting date/time.

sub date_dist {
    my ($hashref, $period, $threshold) = @_;
    my ($bar, %byday, $day, $lmax, $month, $scale);
    my $max   = 0;
    my $min   = 1E10;
    my $total = 0;

    # Build a hash of posting counts keyed by posting dates/times
    # normalized to midnight.

    for (keys %{$hashref}) {
	$day = midnight($ARG);
	$byday{$day} ||= 0; # initialize for -w
	$byday{$day} += $hashref->{$ARG};
    }

    for (values %byday) {
	$total += $ARG;
	$max = $ARG if $ARG > $max;
	$min = $ARG if $ARG < $min;
    }

    $lmax  = length($max);
    $scale = $max / ($WIDTH - 10 - $lmax);
    $scale = 1 if $scale < 1;
    printf <<END, $scale, $total / $period;

Distribution of posts by day    (scale is %.1f '*'s per post)
$total posts   $min posts/day min   $max posts/day max   %3.1f posts/day avg
$SGLBAR
END

    for (reverse sort keys %byday) {
	next if $byday{$ARG} <= $threshold;
	($day, $month) = (localtime($ARG))[3, 4];
	$bar = "*" x ($byday{$ARG} / $scale + 0.5);
	printf "%s %2.d (%$lmax.d)|%s\n", $MONTHS[$month], $day, $byday{$ARG},
	    $bar;
    }
}

# time_dist - display distribution of posting times from a hash of
# counts keyed by posting date/time.

sub time_dist {
    my ($hashref, $threshold) = @_;
    my ($bar, $lmax, $scale);
    my @byhour = (0) x 24;
    my $max    = 0;
    my $min    = 1E10;
    my $total  = 0;

    # Build a list of posting counts indexed by the hour of posting.

    for (keys %{$hashref}) {
	$byhour[(localtime $ARG)[2]] += $hashref->{$ARG};
    }

    for (@byhour) {
	$total += $ARG;
	$max = $ARG if $ARG > $max;
	$min = $ARG if $ARG < $min;
    }

    $lmax  = length($max);
    $scale = $max / ($WIDTH - 9 - $lmax);
    $scale = 1 if $scale < 1;
    printf <<END, $scale, $total / 24, ;

Distribution of posts by hour of the day    (scale is %.1f '*'s per post)
$total posts   $min posts/hr min   $max posts/hr max   %3.1f posts/hr avg
$SGLBAR
END

    for (0..23) {
	$bar = "*" x ($byhour[$ARG] / $scale + 0.5);
	printf "%02d.00 (%${lmax}d)|%s\n", $ARG, $byhour[$ARG], $bar;
    }
}

--------------36BA0BF21027BAF1CF5B46A5--

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From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 03:52:51 1998
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Received: from acad2.cc.uleth.ca (acad2.cc.uleth.ca [142.66.35.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id RAA25105 for <MAJORDOMO-USERS@GREATCIRCLE.COM>; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:38:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V5.0) id 85; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:51:17 -0600
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:40:10 -0600
From: Jim Savoy <savoy@hg.uleth.ca>
To: MAJORDOMO-USERS@GREATCIRCLE.COM
CC: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Message-ID: <009CB897.3F0158D9.85@hg.uleth.ca>
Subject: PPP (persistent punting problem) error
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk


Hello everyone:

              I have been getting a "punting to avoid mail loop" error
message for the past couple of weeks and can't imagine what I did to
create this (installed Majordomo in May and haven't had a problem until
now). I read through all of the mailing list archives for the past two
years, searching for the words "loop" and "punting" and have tried
everything. I even tried making majordomo a "trusted" user in sendmail.cf
(Jack Su suggested that) but nothing can stop the looping.

To demonstrate the problem, I have created a list called "cows" and 
purposely failed to create an archive directory for it (just so I can
get it to generate an error message). If I send mail to the list, the 
following error message gets sent to the Log file in the /lists directory 
(note: the message makes it to the members of the list), but the error 
message does not go to the owner of the list - just to the Log file):

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aug 31 15:41:26 amber.online.uleth.ca archive2.pl[3886]
 {/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/cows.archive/cows} ABORT 
 shlock: '/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/cows.archive' does not exist
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Cool. If this message was posted to the Log file once, and to the list owner 
once, that would be great. But I would imagine the looping that follows is 
meant for the list owner. but can't get to him for some reason.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aug 31 15:41:27 amber.online.uleth.ca majordomo[3892] 
     {majordomo@amber.online.uleth.ca} ABORT 
       majordomo@amber.online.uleth.ca punting to avoid mail loop.

(repeated indefinitely every 2 seconds)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Here are the details:

SunOS 5.5.1 Generic running on a Sun4u sparc Ultra 1
Majordomo version:  1.94.4
Perl version:       5.002
Sendmail version:   2.?   (can't figure out a way to get sendmail's
                          version, but I'm pretty sure it's very old -
                          someone told me 2.something).


Protection and ownership of files in main directory:

./opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4:

drwxr-x--x   7 majordomoother       1024 Aug 31 15:45 .
drwxr-xr-x   3 majordomoother        512 Aug 30 22:30 ..
-rw-rw----   1 majordomoother          6 Feb 26  1998 .majordomo_registration
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordomoother        512 Feb 26  1998 Tools
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother       5230 Feb 26  1998 archive2.pl
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordomoother        512 Feb 26  1998 bin
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother       2791 Feb 26  1998 bounce-remind
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      10667 Feb 26  1998 config-test
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      49673 Feb 26  1998 config_parse.pl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      13027 Feb 26  1998 digest
drwxrwx---   6 majordomoother       3072 Aug 31 15:41 lists
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      64247 Aug 31 15:43 majordomo
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother      10461 Feb 26  1998 majordomo.cf
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      23763 Feb 26  1998 majordomo.pl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother        137 Feb 26  1998 majordomo_version.pl
drwxr-xr-x   4 majordomoother        512 Feb 26  1998 man
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother       3528 Feb 26  1998 request-answer
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother      29516 Feb 26  1998 resend
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother      10462 Feb 26  1998 sample.cf
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordomoother       8060 Feb 26  1998 shlock.pl
-rwsr-xr-x   1 root     other       8056 Feb 26  1998 wrapper


Protection and ownership of cows-related files in the lists directory:

./lists:

-rw-rw-r--   1 majordomoother         34 Aug 31 15:39 cows
-rw-rw----   1 majordomoother       1295 Aug 31 15:34 cows.config
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother        148 Aug 31 15:36 cows.info
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother         90 Aug 31 15:25 cows.intro
-rw-r--r--   1 majordomoother         34 Aug 31 15:38 cows.rst

NOTE: wardtj@uleth.ca and savoy@uleth.ca are the only users in the cows 
      and cows.rst files (ie they are not empty files)


Relevant info from /etc/aliases:

#
majordomo:                 "|/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
owner-majordomo:           savoy@uleth.ca
majordomo-owner:           savoy@uleth.ca
#
cows:  "|/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l cows cows-outgoing"
cows-outgoing::include:/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/cows, cows-archive
owner-cows:  wardtj@uleth.ca
cows-owner:  wardtj@uleth.ca
cows-request: "|/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper request-answer cows"
cows-archive: "|/opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper archive2.pl -f /opt/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/cows.archive/cows -m -a"
owner-cows-archive:  cows-owner
owner-cows-outgoing: cows-owner
cows-approval:  wardtj@uleth.ca
#

A few of the flags from cows.config:

reply_to            =
restrict_post       =   cows.rst
sender              =   owner-cows


The config-test file (run from a regular account) passes all tests. Can't
for the life of me figure out what is causing the looping. Any help would
be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


 - jim savoy -
 - university of lethbridge -
 - savoy@hg.uleth.ca -



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 04:26:09 1998
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Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id CAA05250 for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 02:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #26)
	id 0zFx3l-0005zy-00; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:54:05 +0100
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:54:04 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Cheng Hung-Yan <chenghy@phys.sinica.edu.tw>,
        majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: How to append a signature to articels?
Message-ID: <19980907095404.A23035@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.91.980902122647.26811A@phys11>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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User-Agent: Mutt/0.94.3i (FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386)
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Cheng Hung-Yan wrote:

> I'm using sendmail on Linux Redhat 5.0 with majordomo 1.94.4
> I created a mailing list for our group and it works properly.
> But I want to append a signature,  which states the name of the
> list and the address of the list manager, to every article
> posted to the list.  Could you please tell me how to do it ?

Look at message_footer in the list config file.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 04:26:35 1998
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Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #26)
	id 0zFx62-00060L-00; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:56:26 +0100
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:56:26 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Bill Forman <wforman@equis.com>,
        "'majordomo-users@greatcircle.com'" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: Help adding a new list
Message-ID: <19980907095626.B23035@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <24FA77225FA5D111869F0000C025B6F22FA5A9@mailman.equis.com.137.246.204.in-addr.arpa>
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User-Agent: Mutt/0.94.3i (FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386)
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Bill Forman wrote:

> I need to add a new mailing list to an existing set of lists.  I have
> searched for the instructions and have been unsuccessful.  I need to add
> this list quickly.

Just create an empty file in your lists directory, eg

$ touch /usr/majordomo/lists/name-of-new-list

or something. When you send a `lists' command (I think) to majordomo,
a config file will be created, which you can edit as needed. If you have
archives you will also need to make a directory called something like
/usr/majordomo/lists/name-of-new-list.archive, depending on your settings.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 04:52:40 1998
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Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13])
	by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA08961
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 02:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #26)
	id 0zFxDx-00065e-00; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:04:37 +0100
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:04:37 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: "Angelo M. Richichi" <angelo@mail.rumarson.com>,
        majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: question
Message-ID: <19980907100437.D23035@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980904105806.2976A-100000@mail.rumarson.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980904105806.2976A-100000@mail.rumarson.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/0.94.3i (FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386)
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Angelo M. Richichi wrote:

> I want to be able to restrict who can post to my mailing list.  So i put
> the appropriate file name of email addresses that can post in the
> <list>.config file.  But it still allows other people to post regardless.
> What can be the problem? and what can I do to try to solve this

Is your list going through resend? Last time this was asked, someone was
using an alias like

foo: :include:/usr/majordomo/lists/foo

this is wrong. You need something like

foo: "| /usr/majordomo/wrapper resend -l foo foo-outgoing"
foo-outgoing: :include:/usr/majordomo/lists/foo

If you are using resend, and set restrict_post, then I don't know.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 06:31:05 1998
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Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:38:46 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp, Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Returned mail: Insufficient permission: Error 0
Message-ID: <19980907123846.A1084@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <35EB8B05.17EF@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
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Jay Melton wrote:

> In the body I got:
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
> resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"
>     (expanded from:
> 
> and
> 
>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> /home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper: error: insecure usage
> 550 "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
> resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"... Insufficient
> permission: Error 0

You've already asked this, and I told you what I thought would help.
Since you appear to have changed nothing since I gave you that advice, I
won't bother explaining anything again.

> Can anyone help me with this?

I already have. And so has Mats, you didn't take the slightest bit of
notice of either of us.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 07:44:01 1998
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	id 0zFzd8-0000IF-00; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:38:46 +0100
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:38:46 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp, Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Returned mail: Insufficient permission: Error 0
Message-ID: <19980907123846.A1084@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <35EB8B05.17EF@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
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Jay Melton wrote:

> In the body I got:
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
> resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"
>     (expanded from:
> 
> and
> 
>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> /home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper: error: insecure usage
> 550 "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
> resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"... Insufficient
> permission: Error 0

You've already asked this, and I told you what I thought would help.
Since you appear to have changed nothing since I gave you that advice, I
won't bother explaining anything again.

> Can anyone help me with this?

I already have. And so has Mats, you didn't take the slightest bit of
notice of either of us.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 07:45:43 1998
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Received: from localhost (wav@localhost)
	by wave.com.ph (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA11633;
	Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:16:00 +0800
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:16:00 +0800 (PHT)
From: "William A. Villanueva" <wav@pacific.wave.com.ph>
To: claudio minutella <minutella@tic.ch>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: bouncing automatic to list
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980902145950.00cd8710@mail.tic.ch>
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On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, claudio minutella wrote:

> i have setup a unmoderated but open+confirm list.
> also administrive = no
> 
> when now someone sends a posting to the list, i want that
> this mail is been checked ba majordomo itself, if it
> has a correct password in the first line. if that is true,
> remove the password and send it to the list, regardless if
> the sender is subscribed or not. just if the password is 
> correct - then go for it.
> 

"unmoderated" simply means anybody can post, password or no password.

open+confirm is for subscribing to the list itself.

If you want passwords to be checked for posting, then use moderated.
Then the poster should know the pasword for posting.

 ==================================================================== 
  Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we
  we do not see.  - Hebrews 11:1
 ==================================================== ICQ# 8313012 == 
 


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 07:59:58 1998
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	by wave.com.ph (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA11653;
	Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:22:19 +0800
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:22:19 +0800 (PHT)
From: "William A. Villanueva" <wav@pacific.wave.com.ph>
To: tony@geckoware.com
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Configuration Question
In-Reply-To: <35EF2FC2.75331A2D@cape.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980907221759.11631B-100000@pacific.wave.com.ph>
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Did you put in the majordomo alias name into your /etc/aliases file?

ie.  majordomo:	"|/path/to/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"

Then one would normally send the message to:

 majordomo@your.domain

and in the body

 	help


The alias would handle the parsing of the command.

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Tony Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi all,
> As a first time majordomo user, I've run into a problem that
> I could do with some help on.
> The system is
> 
> SunOS spectrum 5.5.1 Generic_103640-03 sun4u sparc
> SUNW,Ultra-1
> Majordomo is ver1.94.4
> 
> Running
> 
>     wrapper config-parse
> 
> yields no errors or suggestions, but any commands to
> majordomo, e.g.
> 
>     wrapper majordomo
>         help
> 
> gives the message
> 
> " mj_majordomo: ABORT
> Majordomo@spectrum.demo-net.geckoware.com:  is not a valid
> return address.
> 
> 
> cannot chdir(mqueue): No such file or directory"
> 
> This e-mail address is valid and accepts incoming mail.
> Any suggestions ?
 
 ==================================================================== 
  Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we
  we do not see.  - Hebrews 11:1
 ==================================================== ICQ# 8313012 == 




From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 08:12:50 1998
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	by shaknet.clark.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00444
	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:03:16 -0500
Reply-To: <alan_s@shaknet.clark.net>
From: "Alan V. Shackelford" <alan_s@shaknet.clark.net>
To: <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: RE: question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:03:03 -0400
Message-ID: <004c01bdda5f$d98df770$0100a8c0@reliant.shaknet.priv>
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It has been my understanding that the various forms of restriction on who
can post sort of work together. You can not restrict posting to a select
group by simply by adding a file containing their addresses. Their addresses
may also be in the subscriber list (the mailing list file). So if your list
is set to allow posts from the list members, the post will go out. Put
simply, majordomo tries to find a reason to allow the post. It checks all of
the possible screening settings. As soon as it finds approval, the post goes
out. If it never finds approval, it bounces the post to the owner.

This could be totally wrong. If so, please correct me.

Alan V. Shackelford alan_s@shaknet.clark.net
One net to rule them all, one net to find them
one net to bring them all, and using Unix bind them.

<> -----Original Message-----
<> From: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
<> [mailto:majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM]On Behalf Of Angelo M.
<>
<> I want to be able to restrict who can post to my mailing
<> list.  So i put
<> the appropriate file name of email addresses that can post in the
<> <list>.config file.  But it still allows other people to
<> post regardless.
<> What can be the problem? and what can I do to try to solve this


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 08:57:55 1998
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Received: from localhost (lawppw@localhost)
	by gsulaw.gsu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA10397;
	Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:46:51 -0400
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:46:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
cc: Majordomo Mailing List <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: How to use alternative config file with digest?
In-Reply-To: <00d101bdd8ab$793a19e0$850a4382@st.einar>
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They all had administrivia within the first 10 lines and so needed to be
approved.

Patrick

On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, St.Einar wrote:

:  There must be a problem with GreatCircle's Majordomo (or something). The
:  above message was sent August the 30th but never reached the list before
:  now - or is there a problem with Bigfoot?!


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 09:16:10 1998
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Received: from gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (gold.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.112.16])
	by cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12178
	for <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:52:53 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199809071552.LAA12178@cis.ohio-state.edu>
X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: 550 :include:... Cannot open ... World writable directory 
In-Reply-To: Message from Rainer Enders <Rainer.Enders@erilab.com> 
   of "Thu, 03 Sep 1998 13:47:20 PDT." <35EF0058.1F5FFBEA@erilab.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 11:52:52 -0400
From: Dave Barr <barr@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

>550 :include:/var/Mail/lists/testlist... Cannot open
>/var/Mail/lists/testlist: World writable directory
>554 <testlist@erilab.com>... aliasing/forwarding loop broken

Sendmail won't let you have a world writable directory.

Check the permissions on

/var
/var/Mail
/var/Mail/lists

One of them has the o+w bit set.  Fix it.

--Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 09:42:56 1998
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Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #26)
	id 0zG0ts-00018Z-00; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:00:08 +0100
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:00:07 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>,
        Majordomo Mailing List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: How to use alternative config file with digest?
Message-ID: <19980907140007.B3063@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <00d101bdd8ab$793a19e0$850a4382@st.einar>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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User-Agent: Mutt/0.94.3i (FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386)
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

St.Einar wrote:

>   There must be a problem with GreatCircle's Majordomo (or something). The
>   above message was sent August the 30th but never reached the list before
>   now - or is there a problem with Bigfoot?!

Learn to interpret Received headers, and you'll find out where the delay
is. For example, (wrapped for clarity)

Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1)
  id PAA24258 for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:05:57
  -0700 (PDT)                                           ^

Received: from netserve.ous.edu (OSSHE.EDU [140.211.10.20]) by
  honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-980202-1) with ESMTP id PAA15063 for
  <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:33:48 -0700 (PDT)
                                          ^

That's only a two day delay, and it looks like that message had to be
approved by mcb, presumably the list owner. This will probably occur on
messages with admin commands near the top, s*bscribe, uns*bscribe, etc.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 14:20:43 1998
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Received: from atle (atle [192.36.170.16])
	by tor.abc.se (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19047;
	Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:21:30 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:21:28 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: tony@geckoware.com
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, Tony Gordon Smith <tony@cape.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Configuration Question
In-Reply-To: <35EF2FC2.75331A2D@cape.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809072218360.11273-100000@atle>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Tony Gordon Smith wrote:

>     wrapper majordomo
>         help
> 
> gives the message
> 
> " mj_majordomo: ABORT
> Majordomo@spectrum.demo-net.geckoware.com:  is not a valid
> return address.


The program file majordomo should not be run on the command line. It
expects to get a mail on standard input. Do

echo "help" | mail majordomo

If you have a mail file including its headers you could run majordomo:

cat mailfile | ./wrapper majordomo


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 14:35:08 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id OAA00843; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
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Received: from atle (atle [192.36.170.16])
	by tor.abc.se (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19096;
	Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:23:43 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:23:41 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Rainer Enders <Rainer.Enders@erilab.com>
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: "|/var/mail/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"... User
 unknown
In-Reply-To: <35EC23E2.498A0E6F@erilab.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809072221470.11273-100000@atle>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809072221472.11273@atle>
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Rainer Enders wrote:

> > "|/var/Mail/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"... User unknown

I think the mailer definition for "prog" is missing in your sendmail.cf.
Do
 grep Mprog sendmail.cf



-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 14:50:42 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id OAA00854; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
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Received: from atle (atle [192.36.170.16])
	by tor.abc.se (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA19174;
	Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:25:28 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:25:26 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Jeff Stromberg <Jeff@Ancept.com>
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Can't create output: Permission denied 
In-Reply-To: <001601bdd746$8a6613b0$abb992ce@bigbang.ancept.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809072224030.11273-100000@atle>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Jeff Stromberg wrote:

>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
>     (expanded from: <majordomo@emu.ancept.com>)

A "|" is missing. Your alias should be

majordomo: "|/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
            ^
            |


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 15:05:02 1998
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Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:35:08 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
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To: "james hartley (sys admin)" <jhartley@irwin-mdei.army.mil>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: help decyphering error messages. 
In-Reply-To: <35EDA33A.7558@irwin-gispd.army.mil>
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On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, james hartley (sys admin) wrote:

> My system is an Ultra 1. running solaris 2.5 and majordomo 1.94.1
>
> the following is a transcript of a common message, can someone help me
> determine the cause of the problem. I particularly need to understand
> what the transcript section is trying to tell me. All of e-mail
> addresses in this post exist and can be reached with regular mail. 

Your sendmail is probably configured not to look for MX records. In the
mailer definitions in sendmail.cf the 0 flag should not be set. Look for
another configuration file, /usr/lib/sendmail.mx, which is said to
available under SunOS.


> 550 hank_mccutchen@nps.gov... Host unknown (Name server: nps.gov: host
> not found)
> kanicol@compuserve.com... Deferred: Connection refused by compuserve.com
> 550 wsfisher@efdswest.navfac.navy.mil... Host unknown (Name server:
> efdswest.navfac.navy.mil: host not found)
> 550 otis_diehlp@mcagcc.usmc.mil... Host unknown (Name server:
> mcagcc.usmc.mil: host not found)


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se




From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 15:19:44 1998
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Subject: Re: Can't create output: Permission denied 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Jeff Stromberg" <Jeff@Ancept.com> 
   of "Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:24:19 CDT." <001601bdd746$8a6613b0$abb992ce@bigbang.ancept.com> 
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>   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>"/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
>    (expanded from: <majordomo@emu.ancept.com>)

Well, you didn't include your alias entry for majordomo, but it's wrong.
It should be..

majordomo: "|/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo"
            ^

--Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 17:54:54 1998
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References: <35EB8B05.17EF@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
 <35EB8B05.17EF@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:46:56 +0900
To: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>, Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Jay Melton <jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: Returned mail: Insufficient permission: Error 0
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Sorry to all of you!!!

I sent both of these messages more than a week ago.

Basically, I loaded up majordomo, had this problem, joined the list, and
sent one of these messages.  After joining the list, and sending it, I
didn't get a response, so I sent it again (I'M REALLY SORRY).  I got
impatient because classes started yesterday, and I wanted to get a couple
of lists ready to try out with one of my classes.

Anyway, I DID respond to you, and I DID say thank you to you, Mats, Alan
and Warren.  Alan sent a couple of messages that helped me clear it up
right away.  The example in the _Managing Mailing Lists_ did not make it
quite clear that I needed a space in:

"|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"

to look like:

"|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper resend
@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"

Alan first suggested that I take out the @ in the alias.  I tried that, but
had the same error message.  Then I put in the space, and it worked.  This
morning's mail had Alan's suggestion of the space.

So again I apologize (have I groveled enough?), and again I say thanks.

Jay

>Jay Melton wrote:
>
>> In the body I got:
>>
>>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>> "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
>> resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"
>>     (expanded from:
>>
>> and
>>
>>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>> /home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper: error: insecure usage
>> 550 "|/home/majordomo/runtime/wrapper
>> resend@/home/majordomo/lists/macusers.resend"... Insufficient
>> permission: Error 0
>
>You've already asked this, and I told you what I thought would help.
>Since you appear to have changed nothing since I gave you that advice, I
>won't bother explaining anything again.
>
>> Can anyone help me with this?
>
>I already have. And so has Mats, you didn't take the slightest bit of
>notice of either of us.
>
>--
>Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/
>
>PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
>     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)


Jay Melton (mailto:jay@pu-kumamoto.ac.jp)
Prefectural University of Kumamoto
1-100 Tsukide 3-chome
Kumamoto 862 Japan
Phone: (096) 383 2929  (O's not necessary outside of Japan)
Fax:   (096) 384 6765
Homepage: http://www.pu-kumamoto.ac.jp/~jay/jay.html



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 23:17:58 1998
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:13:33 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Mike Oliver <Mike.Oliver@Eng.Sun.COM>
cc: David Barr <barr@cis.ohio-state.edu>,
        Majordomo Users List <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: majordomo-<listname>-outgoing
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On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Mike Oliver wrote:

> Section 3.6 of the FAQ discusses this problem in depth.
> [...]
> I suggest that before anyone else chimes in on this thread they at least
> review the FAQ to make sure that they're not just rehashing old
> information: <http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/majordomo-faq.html#3.6>

One thing that could be added to the FAQ for this question is something
like.

  If you are using exim (http://www.exim.org/) instead of sendmail there
  are more things you can do.  Instead of concealing the -outgoing
  addresses, it is possible to configure exim so that those addresses are
  only usable by the local majordomo user.  A description of how to do
  that can be found at http://www.netmaster.ca/exim/majordomo.html as well
  as other information about configuring majordomo with exim.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep  7 23:47:46 1998
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:23:45 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: "Alan V. Shackelford" <alan_s@shaknet.clark.net>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: RE: question
In-Reply-To: <004c01bdda5f$d98df770$0100a8c0@reliant.shaknet.priv>
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On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Alan V. Shackelford wrote:

> It has been my understanding that the various forms of restriction on who
> can post sort of work together. You can not restrict posting to a select
> group by simply by adding a file containing their addresses. Their addresses
> may also be in the subscriber list (the mailing list file). So if your list
> is set to allow posts from the list members, the post will go out. Put
> simply, majordomo tries to find a reason to allow the post. It checks all of
> the possible screening settings. As soon as it finds approval, the post goes
> out. If it never finds approval, it bounces the post to the owner.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying.  Below is how I work things.

Suppose your list is called fred.  If your config has

restrict_post = fred fred-posters

Then those address both on the list (fred) and also those listed in
fred-posters will be able to post.  But if you have

restrict_post = fred-posters

then only those members of fred-posters will be able to post unapproved.

I use both of these for different sorts of lists.  I primarily use the
former for discussion lists that have a number of users who have multiple
or inconsistant email addresses and occassionally wish to post from
addresses that differ from where they receive mail but don't want multiple
copies.

I use the latter set-up for "announcement" type lists without having to
go all the way to full moderation.

I don't, however, have an answer for the original question, and suspect
that maybe resend isn't being used for that list.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  8 07:14:50 1998
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From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Multiple copies
References: <199809041953.NVH03963@zebra.alphacdc.com> <x7ww7jebsp.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
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Date: 08 Sep 1998 10:06:27 -0400
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Rich Pieri writes:

>> And this is supposed to be a list subscribed to by guru's???
> The gurus aren't the ones doing it.

Or perhaps not.

But then again, my mail software automatically suppresses duplicate
messages, so I never noticed it.

So I suppose it comes back around to the MUA rant: if yours does not do
what you want it to do, get one that does.

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pv55Hg5q3aMZ1cJHDGqdCy+m5IMTDlx+Lkg4xhUgWDJjGzMmIOLdWBbple2qEThe
GM1HhAX4DyE=
=jkm8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / 
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  8 07:17:26 1998
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From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Filtering by MJ
References: <199808312125.OAA22667@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 08 Sep 1998 10:11:04 -0400
In-Reply-To: Sam Brooks's message of "Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:25:16 -0700 (PDT)"
Message-ID: <x7k93eae4n.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Sam Brooks writes:

> Question to the list members and gurus.
> Is this true?  Never seen it documented in any MJ materials.

*shrug*

Anyone so obnoxious as to use a broken autoresponder on my lists gets
unsubscribed with extreme prejudice, especially if he has the gall to
suggest that I "fix" my list.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / core, which, if exposed due to
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / rupture, should not be touched,
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / inhaled, or looked at.


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  8 07:35:02 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:09:52 -0400
From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Editing Major-Domo Files Offline
References: <35EA78C0.AFCCAEE8@afina.es> <199809010434.VAA26781@m7.sprynet.com>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 08 Sep 1998 10:09:52 -0400
In-Reply-To: marcum02@sprynet.com's message of "Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:30:48 -0600"
Message-ID: <x7n28aae6n.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

marcum02  writes:

> I'm lost as to why things like this would happen after just downloading
> editing and uploading the file back.

Because "just downloading, editing and uploading the file back" does not
lock the file, which means Majordomo will use whatever portion is there --
which might not be a complete file.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / include an unknown glowing
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / substance which fell to Earth,
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / presumably from outer space.


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  8 12:15:15 1998
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	Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:34:19 -0500 (EST)
From: warrenk@on-net.net (Warren Killian)
To: marcum02@sprynet.com
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Editing Major-Domo Files Offline
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 16:33:42 GMT
Organization: On-Net Services
Message-ID: <35fb5b2a.8320431@mail.on-net.net>
References: <35EA78C0.AFCCAEE8@afina.es> <199809010434.VAA26781@m7.sprynet.com>
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On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:30:48 -0600, you wrote:

>> If you have access to the server though, I just edit the config files
>> directly, ~majordom/lists/foo.config
>>=20
>
>I seem to have a problem editing majordomo files.
>
>I use UltraEdit to edit the files and CuteFTP to download them ...
>

Hi Marcum,

I didn't see your original post.  But if you are trying to modify the
MD files on your server, there are several different programs you can
use.

If your Majordomo is running on a UNIX server, you can use the
standard "vi" text editor.  It's kinda hard for new users to get used
to, but with an hour or so of practice, you can master the basics.
Many UNIX systems also offer a program called "pico" which is a nice
menu driven text editor that is much easier to learn and use. =20

Warren Killian
warrenk@on-net.net

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  8 13:31:55 1998
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From: "Scott Rothgaber" <scott@easley.net>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:30:43 -0400
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Subject: Wierd Mail
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Hey... Neils Hansa!

Set your mailer to ASCII text, as per the list rules. I tried to 
reply to you personally, but your message was so bizarre that Pegasus 
didn't know what to do with it.



* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*                                                       *
*  Easley Internet Solutions            AIM: ExCavSGT   *
*  Easley, SC  USA                      ICQ: 10722606   *
*  http://www.easley.net                864.859.2400    *
*                                                       *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  8 15:17:09 1998
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:05:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Hill <dhill@sunbeach.net>
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Signal 213 on AIX box
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Greetings all.  I've been given the task of porting our Lyris lists
over to Majordomo.  Majordomo installed fine, config-test says
everything is good.

Any mail command I try to send to Majordomo causes a core dumb, and my
logs show exited with signal 213.  Perusal of the archives turned up
that this might be related to the version of perl that I have
installed, but I don't believe this to be the case.  Specs follow.

AIX 4.2.1
GCC 2.7.2.3 - self compiled.
Perl 5.004_63
Majordomo 1.94.4

Would love any suggestions on how to fix.

Also, are there any nice scripts written for translating Lyris config
files and mail lists to Majordomo format?

Many thanks.

--

Duncan Hill			Penn College Proud - www.pct.edu



From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep  8 16:05:45 1998
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Message-ID: <35F545AF.ED705DC9@calarts.edu>
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:56:47 +0100
From: Susan Lowenberg <susan@calarts.edu>
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I'm trying to make wrapper using Majordomo 1.94.4 on an SGI Indy running
IRIX 5.3 with Perl 5.004.  I get the following error message:

indy1.calarts.edu# make wrapper
        cc  -DBIN=\"/usr/local/lib/majordomo-1.94.4\"
-DPATH=\"PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb:/usr/bsd\" 
-DHOME=\"HOME=/usr/local/lib/majordomo-1.94.4\"
-DSHELL=\"SHELL=/bin/sh\" 
-DMAJORDOMO_CF=\"MAJORDOMO_CF=/usr/local/lib/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.cf\"      
-DPOSIX_UID=14  -DPOSIX_GID=1  -o wrapper wrapper.c
cfe: Error: wrapper.c: 25: Cannot open file string.h for #include
*** Error code 1 (bu21)

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

TIA
-- 
Susan Lowenberg 
Information Resources Librarian  
California Institute of the Arts                                    
e-mail:  susan@calarts.edu 
voice:  805-253-7888 
fax:  805-254-4561

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  9 09:49:30 1998
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          Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:43:47 -0500
Message-ID: <35F6AEB4.2C9A@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:37:08 -0500
From: Carolyn Rokke <carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
Organization: Rolling Prairie Library System
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I)
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
CC: Reven@Tribe.OnlineToday.Com
Subject: 550 majordomo. . . User unknown
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Hello all,
I'm still setting up Majordomo-1.94.4 on a DEC Alpha running UNIX 4.0b.

This message is going both to the list, and to the person who kindly
responded to my earlier message.

I wrote last week about sending mail to majord (the username I set up
for majordomo) and it just sitting there.  I received a response telling
me I need to send the mail to majordomo (the program, I guess), NOT
majord (the user that owns all the program files).

When I do that I get a message from the postmaster with the info in the
subject line of this message.  (550 majordomo. . . User unknown)

What good would it do me to create a user called Majordomo (not to
mention, since it's more than 8 characters, I couldn't anyway)?

Am I missing something in my aliases?  I have the following, set up in
/var/adm/sendmail/aliases AND the same things in
/webz/majordomo/majordomo.aliases: (all the messages I see say
/etc/aliases, but there is no such animal in this system -- man aliases
says they're in var/adm.
majordomo: "|/webz/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"
ref-talk: "|/webz/majordomo/wrapper resend -l ref-talk ref-talk-list"
ref-talk-list: :include:/webz/majordomo/lists/ref-talk
owner-ref-talk: majord
ref-talk-owner: majord
ref-talk-request: "|/webz/majordomo/wrapper majordomo -l ref-talk"
ref-talk-approval: majord
approval-ref-talk: majord
request-ref-talk: majord
approval-ref-talk: majord

I do appreciate any help you can give.  Thanks for your patience -- if I
learn this, maybe I can be one who responds to newbies someday!!
-- 
Carolyn Rokke
Rolling Prairie Library System
Decatur, IL  62522
217 429-2586
carolynr@rpls.lib.il.us

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  9 10:49:10 1998
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Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:48:39 -0600
From: TRACY BOEHM <TRACY@usagroup.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: I recently installed Majordomo 1.94.4 on Solaris 2.6.  I can
	successfully send commands to Majordomo
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I recently installed Majordomo 1.94.4 on Solaris 2.6.  I can successfully send commands to Majordomo@host.com and receive messages successfully from majordomo@host.com, but am unable to send a message directly to a list (listname@host.com).  The Majordomo Log file does not have any reference to the message that I try to send to the list.

The messages file (syslog) basically states that the message has been successfully sent, but there are warnings in the log file as listed below:

 12:45:17 fshsun01 sendmail[9631]: MAA09631: from=<TRACY@usagroup.com>, size=1233, class=0, pri=31233, nrcpts=1, msgid=<s5f67812.088@usagroup.com>, proto=
ESMTP, relay=michael.usagroup.com [192.168.7.34]

Sep  9 12:45:18 fshsun01 sendmail[9632]: MAA09632: clone MAA09631, owner=test-owner

Sep  9 12:45:19 fshsun01 sendmail[9635]: MAA09635: Authentication-Warning: fshsun01.usagroup.com: majordom set sender to owner-sv@fshsun01.usagroup.com using -f

Sep  9 12:45:19 fshsun01 sendmail[9635]: MAA09635: from=owner-sv@fshsun01.usagroup.com, size=1498, class=-60, pri=109498, nrcpts=0, msgid=<s5f67812.088@usagroup
.com>, relay=majordom@localhost

Sep  9 12:45:19 fshsun01 sendmail[9635]: MAA09635: to=owner-sv@fshsun01.usagroup.com, delay=00:00:00, mailer=local, stat=User unknown

Sep  9 12:45:19 fshsun01 sendmail[9635]: MAA09635: MAB09635: postmaster notify:User unknown

Sep  9 12:45:20 fshsun01 sendmail[9635]: MAB09635: to=postmaster@usagroup.com, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, relay=usasmtp.usagroup.com. [172.1
6.1.18], stat=Sent (Ok)

Sep  9 12:45:20 fshsun01 sendmail[9632]: MAA09632: to="|/opt/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l test -f test-owner -h fshsun01.usagroup.com -s test-outgoing", delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:02, mailer=prog, stat=Sent  


I have successfully run the ./wrapper config-test with no errors and have created the entry in the aliases file and successfully ran newaliases.

Any ideas?

Thanks in Advace,
Tracy Boehm
tboehm@usagroup.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep  9 12:37:19 1998
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	Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:31:51 -0400
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:31:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: Carolyn Rokke <carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, Reven@Tribe.OnlineToday.Com
Subject: Re: 550 majordomo. . . User unknown
In-Reply-To: <35F6AEB4.2C9A@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
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On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Carolyn Rokke wrote:

:I wrote last week about sending mail to majord (the username I set up
:for majordomo) and it just sitting there.  I received a response telling
:me I need to send the mail to majordomo (the program, I guess), NOT
:majord (the user that owns all the program files).
:
:When I do that I get a message from the postmaster with the info in the
:subject line of this message.  (550 majordomo. . . User unknown)

Did you run newaliases after creating those aliases?  That might explain
why "majordomo" is an unknown user.

:What good would it do me to create a user called Majordomo (not to
:mention, since it's more than 8 characters, I couldn't anyway)?

It wouldn't do any good at all.

:Am I missing something in my aliases?  I have the following, set up in
:/var/adm/sendmail/aliases AND the same things in
:/webz/majordomo/majordomo.aliases: (all the messages I see say
:/etc/aliases, but there is no such animal in this system -- man aliases
:says they're in var/adm.

I'm not sure why you're duplicating the aliases.  Does sendmail even know
about majordomo.aliases (a sendmail.cf setting)?

:majordomo: "|/webz/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"
:ref-talk: "|/webz/majordomo/wrapper resend -l ref-talk ref-talk-list"
:ref-talk-list: :include:/webz/majordomo/lists/ref-talk
:owner-ref-talk: majord
:ref-talk-owner: majord
:ref-talk-request: "|/webz/majordomo/wrapper majordomo -l ref-talk"
:ref-talk-approval: majord
:approval-ref-talk: majord
:request-ref-talk: majord
:approval-ref-talk: majord

Setting all those addresses to "majord" is a mildly weird thing to do.
The "owner" address usually points to a real person who owns the list
(eg, carolynr or carolynr@somewhere). Is majord such a user?

Patrick


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 10 08:46:35 1998
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	by michael.usagroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA18631
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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:47:26 -0600
From: TRACY BOEHM <TRACY@usagroup.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject:  Owner-sv
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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I have installed and configured Majordomo-194.4 on Solaris 2.6.  I am able to send messages to majordomo@hostname.com successfully, but am unable to send to an individual list successfully.  I have created each of the 4 files for the list and have added the entry in the aliases file and have run new aliases.  Listed below is the entry in the aliases file:
# test  mailing list
#
test-owner: tboehm@usasmtp.usagroup.com
test: "|/opt/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l test -f test-owner -h
fshsun01.usagroup.com -s test-outgoing"
owner-test: test-owner
test-outgoing: :include:/opt/majordomo/lists/test
owner-test-outgoing: test-owner
test-archive: /opt/majordomo/lists/archive/test
owner-test-archive: test-owner
test-request: "|/opt/majordomo/wrapper request-answer test"
owner-test-request: test-owner
test-approval: tboehm@usasmtp.usagroup.com
owner-test-owner: tboehm@usasmtp.usagroup.com        

There was an error in the sendmail log (/var/adm/messsages) which stated that the owner-sv did not exist.  

What should owner-sv be in the list.config file?  I changed it so that sender = majordom  (the account that was created for majordomo), but now I receive this error in the messages file:

Sep 10 10:36:21 fshsun01 sendmail[17245]: KAA17245: KAB17245: DSN: test-outgoing
... aliasing/forwarding loop broken     

Any ideas?

Thanks In Advance!
Tracy Boehm
USA Group, Inc

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 10 09:33:18 1998
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	by piedmont.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA26014
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          10 Sep 98 12:19 EDT
Message-ID: <35F7FDD2.227F6B3A@interplas.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:26:58 -0400
From: Eric Wood <eric@interplas.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Newbie
References: <199809101554.IAA25013@honor.greatcircle.com>
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Hello,
I'm a majordomo newbie and I've set myself up a list and I get these
error:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<osas-users@intgrp.com>
:include:/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/osas-users 
    (expanded from: <osas-users@intgrp.com>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 :include:/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/osas-users ... Cannot
open /usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/osas-users: Permission denied
Message delivered to mailing list <osas-users@intgrp.com>
554 <osas-users@intgrp.com>... aliasing/forwarding loop broken



I read the FAQ about this liasing/forwarding loop broken problem but
that's not the problem.  I even tried making the lists directory world
readable but no luck.  Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Eric Wood

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 10 13:15:19 1998
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From: merlin@A470.demon.co.uk
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	for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:13:55 +0000
Received: (qmail 2027 invoked by uid 500); 7 Sep 1998 18:59:42 -0000
Message-ID: <19980907185942.2026.qmail@A470.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: question
To: angelo@mail.rumarson.com (Angelo M. Richichi)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:59:42 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980904105806.2976A-100000@mail.rumarson.com> from "Angelo M. Richichi" at Sep 4, 98 11:00:23 am
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> I want to be able to restrict who can post to my mailing list.  So i put
> the appropriate file name of email addresses that can post in the
> <list>.config file.  But it still allows other people to post regardless.

Here's mine from one particular list ...

restrict_post       = /home/majordom/lists/.valleys-l/valleys-l-negesa

> What can be the problem? and what can I do to try to solve this

Does the file exist, has it got the correct permissions, does it contain
the proper data?  Are you referencing it correctly?

-- 
Darren Rees		merlin@A470.demon.co.uk

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 10 15:32:52 1998
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Reply-To: <sl@nashbar.com>
From: "Stephen Labedz" <sl@nashbar.com>
To: "Majordomo Users List" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: using @filename
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:30:52 -0400
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Does anyone know how to set the @filename directive in resend.

I'm trying to set this up so that people can't use EXPN or VRFY to access my
address.

The following is from the Majordomo FAQ, but as you can see says that it has
fallen into undocumentation.


You can use the "@filename" directive in resend to move the command-line
options of resend into a file readable only by the majordomo user/group.
This will make it such that you can't find out the -outgoing address by
connecting to your mailer and doing an EXPN or VRFY. The "@filename"
directive seems to have fallen into undocumentation for some reason. This
should be fixed in future releases. This doesn't prevent a user reading the
local /etc/aliases file (if they can), however.


Thanks,

Steve


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 10 16:16:31 1998
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Subject: Re: Help in configuring Majordomo
To: carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us (Carolyn Rokke)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <35F03EE8.3021@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us> from "Carolyn Rokke" at Sep 4, 98 02:26:32 pm
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> I created a user, called majord (because somebody told me to).
> 
> I have all the files for majordomo in /webz/majordomo directory, and
> have set aliases both in majordomo.aliases, and the alias file found in
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AFAIK This is a part of the user docs  that come with the Majordomo
package. It's not part of Sendmail's aliases setup.

> the sendmail directory for the listserv I want to create, called
> ref-talk.
>
> So, the aliases for listserv owner and the like I have made "majord"
> 
> When I send a e-mail with one of the commands to majord, it just sits
> there.  What could I be missing that majord doesn't know it is supposed
> to go to the majordomo file and find something to do with that command?

You need an alias like 

	majordomo: "|/path/to/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"

And, you'll need

	majordomo-owner: someone	
	owner-majordomo: someone

in your /etc/aliases file  ie. the aliases for Sendmail. (Don't forget
to run newaliases after adding this.)

Mail "just sits there" presumably because it's being delivered
to your user "majord" (check your mail spool /var/spool/mail/ to 
see if the mail to "majord" is there).
 
Once you are able to direct mail to the wrapper/majordomo program &
receive replies, then you can then test for correct file permissions 
etc.  You'll get warning message(s) if something's amiss here.

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 10 16:30:29 1998
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Subject: Re: Help in configuring Majordomo
To: carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us (Carolyn Rokke)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:56:20 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <35F03EE8.3021@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us> from "Carolyn Rokke" at Sep 4, 98 02:26:32 pm
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> I created a user, called majord (because somebody told me to).
> 
> I have all the files for majordomo in /webz/majordomo directory, and
> have set aliases both in majordomo.aliases, and the alias file found in
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AFAIK This is a part of the user docs  that come with the Majordomo
package. It's not part of Sendmail's aliases setup.

> the sendmail directory for the listserv I want to create, called
> ref-talk.
>
> So, the aliases for listserv owner and the like I have made "majord"
> 
> When I send a e-mail with one of the commands to majord, it just sits
> there.  What could I be missing that majord doesn't know it is supposed
> to go to the majordomo file and find something to do with that command?

You need an alias like 

majordomo: "|/path/to/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"

And, you'll need

majordomo-owner: someone
owner-majordomo: someone

in your /etc/aliases file  ie. the aliases for Sendmail. (Don't forget
to run newaliases after adding this.)

Mail "just sits there" presumably because it's being delivered
to your user "majord" (check your mail spool /var/spool/mail/ to 
see if the mail to "majord" is there).
 
Once you are able to direct mail to the wrapper/majordomo program,
you can then test for correct file permissions etc.  You'll
get warning message(s) if something's amiss here.


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 10 17:15:10 1998
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From: Merrill Cook <mcook@unidial.com>
To: merlin@A470.demon.co.uk
cc: "Angelo M. Richichi" <angelo@mail.rumarson.com>,
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Subject: Re: question
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You forgot the most important question: are you using resend?

On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 merlin@A470.demon.co.uk wrote:

> Does the file exist, has it got the correct permissions, does it contain
> the proper data?  Are you referencing it correctly?


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 10 21:15:02 1998
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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:17:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Simeon Nevel <snevel@sonic.net>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Can a subscriber be set nomail or read-only?
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The question just about says it all...

I've reviewed the listowner crib sheet that I got when my
mailing list was established, but I don't see anything
pertinent...

Is it possible to set things up in the list configuration such
that a subscriber can receive list messages, but not post?

Simeon


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 11 04:17:14 1998
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:16:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Smith <smithd@blkbox.com>
To: Simeon Nevel <snevel@sonic.net>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Can a subscriber be set nomail or read-only?
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On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Simeon Nevel wrote:

> 
> The question just about says it all...
> 
> I've reviewed the listowner crib sheet that I got when my
> mailing list was established, but I don't see anything
> pertinent...
> 
> Is it possible to set things up in the list configuration such
> that a subscriber can receive list messages, but not post?

Yes, to do it for the entire list, or most of it just moderate the list or
add a restrict post file (see the restrict post varable in the config
file) with the people allowed to post.

You could write a script to rebuild that file automotically if you have
access to the server and the majorodomo account.

Luck.


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 11 06:20:25 1998
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Subject: Re: using @filename 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Stephen Labedz" <sl@nashbar.com> 
   of "Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:30:52 EDT." <002501bddd0a$ab549320$46b1040c@sl.nashbar.com> 
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>Does anyone know how to set the @filename directive in resend.
>
>I'm trying to set this up so that people can't use EXPN or VRFY to access my
>address.
>
>The following is from the Majordomo FAQ, but as you can see says that it has
>fallen into undocumentation.

Yes, that's why the FAQ documents it.

--Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 11 06:33:20 1998
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1. What's the coolest trick you can do with Majordomo?

2. While reading http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/FAQ.html#4.10
I believe this answer might want to say if email alias goes straight to
a list file, then users will get a copy.  If the email alias goes
through a | (pipe) then that won't.  You'll have a sacrifice majordomo
from intercepting commands thourgh this list.  This is why you should
make a -request alias and pipe thoughs to majordomo.   Right?


Thanks,
-- 
-Eric Wood
MIS Director

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 11 06:48:21 1998
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From: "Scott Rothgaber" <scott@easley.net>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:17:48 -0400
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Subject: Re: Can a subscriber be set nomail or read-only?
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On 10 Sep 98, at 21:17, Simeon Nevel wrote:

> Is it possible to set things up in the list configuration such
> that a subscriber can receive list messages, but not post?

Yes. In listname.config, set "restrict_post = listname.post"  Then, 
create listname.post and add the email addresses of those who are 
allowed to post.

Seeya!
Scott


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From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 11 07:03:43 1998
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:38:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Horowitz <frost@avanticorp.com>
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Advertise
Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980911082758.27949C-100000@rigel>
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Hi,

I'm new to this list and to majordomo in general.  I am trying to get
advertise to work properly for a list I created called milkyway-api.  I am
editing the milkyway-api.config file, and added a perl-like regex
expression:

advertise           <<  END
/^.*onr.com$/
END

I searched the user archives, and found references which looked similar to
this.

I assume that this will only advertise the list to domains ending in
onr.com; however, when I do a lists command from my avanticorp.com
account, it is listed.  I can't figure out why, unless majordomo can
figure out that the account I am mailing from is the majordomo-owner
account and overrides the security feature.

Thanks in advance,

Dave Horowitz

-
    ___                    __  __     || David S. Horowitz
   /   |_   ______ _____  / /_/ /     || David_Horowitz@avanticorp.com
  / /| | | / / __ `/ __ \/ __/ /      || 1717 W. 6th St., Suite 440
 / ___ | |/ / /_/ / / / / /_/_/       || Austin, TX 78703
/_/  |_|___/\__,_/_/ /_/\__(_)        || Voice: 512-703-1658 Fax: 512-703-1898
                                      || Pager: 1-800-418-1280


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 11 13:29:59 1998
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Reply-To: <sl@nashbar.com>
From: "Stephen Labedz" <sl@nashbar.com>
To: "Dave Barr" <barr@cis.ohio-state.edu>,
        "Majordomo Users List" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: RE: using @filename 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:23:42 -0400
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Dave,

I know that the FAQ mentions it, it doesn't however explain how it should be
used.
What it does say is...The "@filename" directive seems to have fallen into
undocumentation for some reason.

What I am asking is how to use it and set it up.

Steve




> -----Original Message-----
> From: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
> [mailto:majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM]On Behalf Of Dave Barr
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 1998 9:14 am
> To: Majordomo Users List
> Subject: Re: using @filename
>
>
> >Does anyone know how to set the @filename directive in resend.
> >
> >I'm trying to set this up so that people can't use EXPN or VRFY
> to access my
> >address.
> >
> >The following is from the Majordomo FAQ, but as you can see says
> that it has
> >fallen into undocumentation.
>
> Yes, that's why the FAQ documents it.
>
> --Dave
>


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 11 14:30:22 1998
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Subject: Re: Can a subscriber be set nomail or read-only?
To: snevel@sonic.net (Simeon Nevel)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:26:10 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980910211504.15043A-100000@bolt.sonic.net> from "Simeon Nevel" at Sep 10, 98 09:17:04 pm
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Simeon Nevel wrote

     >  Is it possible to set things up in the list configuration such
     >  that a subscriber can receive list messages, but not post?

Yes.  But you'll need two files.  

Set the 'restrict_post' option in your list's  config file to 
point to a file of people who _can post.  The outgoing-alias
for your list point to the other file containing a list of people who
receive messages from the list.

-- 
Darren Rees		merlin@cvnet.co.uk

A geir yn rhad a gerdd yn rhwydd. 
What cost little is little esteemed.

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 11 19:50:06 1998
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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:48:55 +0800 (PST)
From: "Francis A. Vidal" <francis@usls.edu>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Unknown mailer error 126
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980912104450.4819B-100000@linux1.usls.edu>
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after i finished setting up the latest majordomo, i got this message when
i send mails to it. i have sendmail 8.9.1. i've searched the archives and
i also found this same question posted but it has no answer. maybe you
have now...

---
u s l s N E T   university of st. la salle, bacolod city, philippines
. . . . . . .   PGP key at ftp://ftp.usls.edu/pub/pgpkeys/francis.pgp
francis vidal   tel. nos. (6334).435.2324 / 433.3526


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 12 02:20:11 1998
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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:19:20 +0100
From: "Mark Lewis" <discuss.m@rk.to>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: message size restriction.
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

i'm running qmail on linux redhat 5.1 box with majordomo 1.94.4

is there a way of restricting the size of an email that majordomo would
handle? the reason i ask is that some list members have started to send
file attachments to the list and altough politely asked to refrain, they
still keep coming.

mark


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mark Lewis      : m@rk.to            Email to SMS : sms.m@rk.to
Home Page       : www.mythic.net     Nokia Email  : 9000.m@rk.to
                                     Discussion   : discuss.m@rk.to
GSM Phone & SMS : +44(0)498 788388   GSM Fax      : +44(0)498 789023
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From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 12 04:50:28 1998
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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:49:17 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Mark Lewis <discuss.m@rk.to>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: message size restriction.
In-Reply-To: <199809121019200110.0074F427@hades.myth.co.uk>
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On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Mark Lewis wrote:

> i'm running qmail on linux redhat 5.1 box with majordomo 1.94.4
> 
> is there a way of restricting the size of an email that majordomo would
> handle? 

If you use resend there is a size setting in LIST.config.



-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 12 08:21:22 1998
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Message-ID: <001501bdde5f$dad69fc0$9a094382@st.einar>
Reply-To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
From: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
To: "Majordomo Mailing List" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>,
        "Mark Lewis" <discuss.m@rk.to>
Subject: Re: message size restriction.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:13:00 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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  Mark:
> is there a way of restricting the size of an email that majordomo would
> handle? the reason i ask is that some list members have started to send
> file attachments to the list and altough politely asked to refrain, they
> still keep coming.

  Edit your <list>.config file:

  maxlength           =   40000

  # maxlength            [integer] (40000) <resend,digest>
  # The maximum size of an unapproved message in characters. When
  # used with digest, a new digest will be automatically generated if
  # the size of the digest exceeds this number of characters.

  Another solution: Unsubscribe them!


  --- --- --- --- ---

  Question to the list: How do I ban spammer@scammer.net from a list
  even when

  restrict_post    = list
  moderate         = no
  subscribe_policy = open

  Since "subscribe_policy = open" (and I want it to be) the spammer
  can resubscribe and then spam again. Can I use the "taboo_body" or
  "taboo_headers"? What is the syntax for banning spammer@scammer.net?

  Is it:

  taboo_body
  spammer@scammer.net 
  END

  ?

  Thanks in advance! :)

/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                                      ICQ 9199591










From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 12 14:34:54 1998
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	for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:29:15 +0000
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Message-ID: <19980912183624.2010.qmail@A470.demon.co.uk>
From: merlin@A470.demon.co.uk (Darren Rees)
Subject: Re: message size restriction.
To: discuss.m@rk.to (Mark Lewis)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:36:24 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <199809121019200110.0074F427@hades.myth.co.uk> from "Mark Lewis" at Sep 12, 98 10:19:20 am
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Mark Lewis wrote

     >  i'm running qmail on linux redhat 5.1 box with majordomo 1.94.4
     >  is there a way of restricting the size of an email that majordomo would
     >  handle? 

In the list config, set appropriate figure for

  	maxlength           = 5000

     >  the reason i ask is that some list members have started to send
     >  file attachments to the list and altough politely asked to refrain, they
     >  still keep coming.

You could run list messages through a script which politely rejects them
if the script finds file attachments you wish to reject.

-- 
Darren Rees		merlin@cvnet.co.uk

A gyniler a geir wrth raid. A penny saved is a penny gained. 

From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 13 01:18:38 1998
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References: <19980912183624.2010.qmail@A470.demon.co.uk>
X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 2.40.41.05
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:22:08 +0100
From: "Mark Lewis" <discuss.m@rk.to>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: message size restriction.
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

>     >  i'm running qmail on linux redhat 5.1 box with majordomo 1.94.4
>     >  is there a way of restricting the size of an email that majordomo
would
>     >  handle? 
>
>In the list config, set appropriate figure for
>
>  	maxlength           = 5000

thanks for all the responses and help. i had thought that the "maxlength"
attribute was the one to change, but a techie i knew said it would have to
be in qmail itself. a supplementary question is, if i reduced the maxlength
from the default 40000 to 5000, will the message truncate or simply fail to
post?

mark


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 13 04:18:43 1998
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	by tor.abc.se (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA19965;
	Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:13:41 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:13:40 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Mark Lewis <discuss.m@rk.to>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: message size restriction.
In-Reply-To: <199809130922080090.0481DC3A@hades.myth.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809131212520.1193-100000@atle>
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On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Mark Lewis wrote:

> be in qmail itself. a supplementary question is, if i reduced the maxlength
> from the default 40000 to 5000, will the message truncate or simply fail to
> post?

They will bounce for you to approve if you wish. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 13 06:33:52 1998
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	by euler.central.cranfield.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
	id 0zICJ7-0005o4-00; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:35:13 +0100
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:35:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Mark Lewis <discuss.m@rk.to>
cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: message size restriction.
In-Reply-To: <199809130922080090.0481DC3A@hades.myth.co.uk>
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On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Mark Lewis wrote:

> thanks for all the responses and help. i had thought that the "maxlength"
> attribute was the one to change, but a techie i knew said it would have to
> be in qmail itself. a supplementary question is, if i reduced the maxlength
> from the default 40000 to 5000, will the message truncate or simply fail to
> post?

The maxlength config variable in the majordomo config thing is a majordomo
thing.  Any message larger than the max length will be -approval address
for approval.

The MTA may also have a maximum message size, but that is probably set
to something in the multiple megabytes.  That can only be modified by
the system mail administrator is not really relevant to your case.

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 13 09:45:17 1998
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Message-ID: <19980913134104.B17817@A470.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:41:04 -0400
From: Darren Wyn Rees <merlin@A470.demon.co.uk>
To: Mark Lewis <discuss.m@rk.to>, majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: message size restriction.
References: <19980912183624.2010.qmail@A470.demon.co.uk> <199809130922080090.0481DC3A@hades.myth.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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In-Reply-To: <199809130922080090.0481DC3A@hades.myth.co.uk>; from Mark Lewis on Sun, Sep 13, 1998 at 09:22:08AM +0100
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On Sun, Sep 13, 1998 at 09:22:08AM +0100, Mark Lewis wrote:

> if i reduced the maxlength
> from the default 40000 to 5000, will the message truncate or simply fail to
> post?

It'll fail to post and bounce to the list-owner (IIRC).

-- 
Darren Rees		merlin@cvnet.co.uk

A chwe nycho'r cyfan a gyll y cyfan.
All covet, all lose.

From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 13 11:47:14 1998
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Message-ID: <000d01bddf45$664e8000$040a4382@st.einar>
Reply-To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
From: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
To: "Majordomo Mailing List" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Taboo or not Taboo?
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:28:52 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

  Hello, list! .)

  How do I ban spammer@scammer.net from a list when

               restrict_post    = list
               moderate         = no
               subscribe_policy = open

  Since "subscribe_policy = open" the spammer can resubscribe and then
  spam again. Can I use the "taboo_body" or "taboo_headers"? What is the
  syntax for banning spammer@scammer.net?

  Is it:

  taboo_body
  spammer@scammer.net 
  END

  ?

  Thanks in advance! :)

/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                                    ICQ 9199591






From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 13 17:49:32 1998
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Received: from mulder.fox.net.au (roddy@europe.fox.net.au [203.19.222.6])
          by southx.sx.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP
	  id KAA15908 for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:46:52 +1000
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:45:47 +1000 (EST)
From: Roddy Strachan <roddy@satlink.com.au>
X-Sender: roddy@mulder.fox.net.au
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: authentication (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9809141045310.15211-100000@mulder.fox.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
	I was wondering if anyon eon the list, knows how to get rid of the
following error msg from the sendmail logfile :

Authentication-Warning: southx.sx.com.au: majordomo set sender to
majordomo-owner@satlink.com.au using -f 

??


Cheers,
---
Roddy Strachan.
Tech Support/Admin.
Satlink Internet Services : 03-9775-2600           | http://www.satlink.com.au
Melbourne, Australia.
Email : roddy@satlink.com.au
ICQ : 1987890
---
Out the 10Base-T, through the router, down the T1,
over the leased line, off the bridge, past the
firewall... nothing but Net.



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 03:41:31 1998
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From: "Alan V. Shackelford" <alan_s@shaknet.clark.net>
To: <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: RE: authentication (fwd)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:41:59 -0400
Message-ID: <001c01bddfcc$4dde2b10$0100a8c0@reliant.shaknet.priv>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9809141045310.15211-100000@mulder.fox.net.au>
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Just my $0.02, but I don't consider this an error. Sure it's redundant day
after day where majordomo is concerned, but I would like to know when
someone changes the sender using -f.

Alan V. Shackelford alan_s@shaknet.clark.net
One net to rule them all, one net to find them
one net to bring them all, and using Unix bind them.

<> -----Original Message-----
<> From: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
<> [mailto:majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM]On Behalf Of Roddy
<> Strachan
<> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 1998 8:46 PM
<> To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
<> Subject: authentication (fwd)
<>
<>
<> Hi,
<> 	I was wondering if anyon eon the list, knows how to get
<> rid of the
<> following error msg from the sendmail logfile :
<>
<> Authentication-Warning: southx.sx.com.au: majordomo set sender to
<> majordomo-owner@satlink.com.au using -f
<>
<> ??
<>
<>
<> Cheers,
<> ---
<> Roddy Strachan.
<> Tech Support/Admin.
<> Satlink Internet Services : 03-9775-2600           |
<> http://www.satlink.com.au
<> Melbourne, Australia.
<> Email : roddy@satlink.com.au
<> ICQ : 1987890
<> ---
<> Out the 10Base-T, through the router, down the T1,
<> over the leased line, off the bridge, past the
<> firewall... nothing but Net.
<>
<>


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 04:59:11 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:55:24 -0400 (EDT)
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98
To: "Majordomo Users List" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: using @filename 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Stephen Labedz" <sl@nashbar.com> 
   of "Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:23:42 EDT." <000001bdddc2$1191be80$46b1040c@sl.nashbar.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:55:24 -0400
From: Dave Barr <barr@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

>I know that the FAQ mentions it, it doesn't however explain how it should be
>used.
>What it does say is...The "@filename" directive seems to have fallen into
>undocumentation for some reason.
>
>What I am asking is how to use it and set it up.

Well, I though the FAQ's documentation was obvious enough -- it's
not a complicated idea.  I've expanded it a bit to explain it more
in-depth.

--Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 06:12:48 1998
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From: bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca (Bill Silvert)
Message-Id: <199809141315.KAA14701@ecology.bio.dfo.ca>
Subject: Re: message size restriction.
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM (Majordomo Users)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:15:01 -0300 (ADT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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merlin@A470.demon.co.uk (Darren Rees) writes:

>Mark Lewis wrote
>
>     >  i'm running qmail on linux redhat 5.1 box with majordomo 1.94.4
>     >  is there a way of restricting the size of an email that majordomo would
>     >  handle? 
>
>You could run list messages through a script which politely rejects them
>if the script finds file attachments you wish to reject.

Actually taboo-body does this quite well. Just bounce any message that
includes any of the usual attachment headers. For example:

/^\s*Content-Disposition: attachment/
/^\s*Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64/
/^\s*Content-Type: application/
/^\s*MIME BASE64/i
/^\s*begin 4/
/^\s*begin 6/
/^\s*begin 7/

Bill

-- 
Bill Silvert, Habitat Ecology Section, Bedford Institute of Oceanography,
P. O. Box 1006, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2, Tel. (902)426-1577
http://www.mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/mesd/he/staff/silvert/silvert.html

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 07:11:43 1998
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Received: from gkar.prescienttech.com. (gkar.prescienttech.com [111.17.19.1])
	by londo.prescienttech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA11886
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:11:01 -0400
From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: authentication (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9809141045310.15211-100000@mulder.fox.net.au>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 14 Sep 1998 10:11:01 -0400
In-Reply-To: Roddy Strachan's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:45:47 +1000 (EST)"
Message-ID: <x7btoiiy2y.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
Lines: 29
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Roddy Strachan writes:

> Hi,
> 	I was wondering if anyon eon the list, knows how to get rid of the
> following error msg from the sendmail logfile :

> Authentication-Warning: southx.sx.com.au: majordomo set sender to
> majordomo-owner@satlink.com.au using -f 

Read the Majordomo FAQ.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNf0j8Z6VRH7BJMxHAQG49gQAr5MNccw2TRSHH1G5ZMFh4dVdq8oIMnYO
lX0T4wAuh9CCnAEUnEKsaZ2EqS5umce1ik55bTXljfy0HZRHvq81i5p3NIf1k8WE
WE8vHcgGHWp+OE0jsSnW9FPzZxnyhskdLtdQVFjYtEI6E16lQdJjuCzPM0eh/Zm2
7X4sV9wMTzY=
=iHtw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke,
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / get away immediately. Seek shelter
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / and cover head.
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 08:11:09 1998
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Received: from SNOWFLAKE by dulce.mic.dundee.ac.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8)
	id R19XDW8S; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:14:47 +0100
Message-ID: <011901bddff2$8862fbf0$61222486@snowflake.mcs.dundee.ac.uk>
From: "Andy C" <acobley@mic.dundee.ac.uk>
To: "Majordomo Users List" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Spammed through list owner account
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:15:39 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

One of my majordomo lists has been spammed through the  list
owner account (i think)  Here is the header
(spammed-list is the list name XXXYYY is the domain of the list)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Received: from smtp03.XXXYYY.com by dulce.mic.dundee.ac.uk with SMTP
(Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8)
id R19XD39H; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:58:34 +0100
Received: (from daemon@localhost)
by smtp03.XXXYYY.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA01015;
Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:04:34 -0700 (MST)
Received: from ftp1.XXXYYY.com(206.165.5.50)
via SMTP by smtp03.XXXYYY.com, id smtpd000382; Wed Sep  9 04:04:25 1998
Received: (from root@localhost) by ftp1.XXXYYY.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id EAA28043
for spammed-list-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:01:55 -0700 (MST)
Received: from forest.globalip.ch (forest.globalip.ch [194.235.29.119]) by
ftp1.XXXYYY.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA28014 for
<spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com>; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:01:51 -0700 (MST)
Received: from ems1998 (sdn-ts-001flhhilP06.dialsprint.net [206.133.79.25])
by forest.globalip.ch (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id FAA19604
for spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:35:13 +0100 (WET DST)
From: owner-spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:35:13 +0100 (WET DST)
Message-Id: <199809090435.FAA19604@forest.globalip.ch>
To: <spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com>
Subject: Make $2 - $3,000 Per Week From Home
Sender: owner-spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

As you can see it originated at sdn-ts-001flhhilP06.dialsprint.net from
ems1998
and appears to have come from owner-spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com .

Two things.

1: How can I stop any more from this organisation.  Will changing the
sender field in the list config file stop this

2: How can I stop any organistaion doing this to my list ?

Any help welcomed and sorry if this is a regularly asked question I could
not see an obvious answer in the faq at:
http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/majordomo-faq.html

Thanks
Andy




From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 08:56:21 1998
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	by amethyst.nstc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1/northshore) id MAA08531;
	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:02:24 -0400
Message-ID: <19980914120224.28477@amethyst.nstc.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:02:24 -0400
From: "Steven J. Sobol" <sjsobol@amethyst.nstc.com>
To: Roddy Strachan <roddy@satlink.com.au>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: authentication (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9809141045310.15211-100000@mulder.fox.net.au>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9809141045310.15211-100000@mulder.fox.net.au>; from Roddy Strachan on Mon, Sep 14, 1998 at 10:45:47AM +1000
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

On Mon, Sep 14, 1998 at 10:45:47AM +1000, Roddy Strachan wrote:
> Hi,
> 	I was wondering if anyon eon the list, knows how to get rid of the
> following error msg from the sendmail logfile :
> 
> Authentication-Warning: southx.sx.com.au: majordomo set sender to
> majordomo-owner@satlink.com.au using -f 

Add your majordomo user to the list of Sendmail trusted accounts using
your ct file or the Ct directive in sendmail.cf.


-- 
North Shore Technologies Corporation, Cleveland, Ohio 1.888.480.INET
Steve Sobol/President, Webmaster, Senior Programmer, Customer Service Guru :) 

Surf over to North Shore's newest website! Visit Greyhound Adoption of Ohio,
Inc. at http://www.greyhound-ohio.org




From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 10:16:33 1998
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Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13])
	by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02074
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:16:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1)
	id 0zIakv-0002wX-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:41:33 +0100
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:41:33 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Roddy Strachan <roddy@satlink.com.au>, majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: authentication (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980914164133.B10533@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9809141045310.15211-100000@mulder.fox.net.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9809141045310.15211-100000@mulder.fox.net.au>
User-Agent: Mutt/0.94.3i (FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386)
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Roddy Strachan wrote:

> Authentication-Warning: southx.sx.com.au: majordomo set sender to
> majordomo-owner@satlink.com.au using -f 
> 
> ??

Make majordomo a trusted user. Put something like

Tmajordomo

somewhere appropriate in sendmail.cf (eg, next to the other Tfoo lines).

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 10:26:07 1998
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Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.02 #1)
	id 0zIaeW-0002qs-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:34:56 +0100
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:34:55 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>,
        Majordomo Mailing List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: Taboo or not Taboo?
Message-ID: <19980914163455.A10533@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <000d01bddf45$664e8000$040a4382@st.einar>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <000d01bddf45$664e8000$040a4382@st.einar>
User-Agent: Mutt/0.94.3i (FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386)
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

St.Einar wrote:

>   Since "subscribe_policy = open" the spammer can resubscribe and then
>   spam again. Can I use the "taboo_body" or "taboo_headers"? What is the
>   syntax for banning spammer@scammer.net?
> 
>   Is it:
> 
>   taboo_body
>   spammer@scammer.net 
>   END

It goes in  taboo_headers:

/^from:.*spammer\@scammer\.net/i

or something. If your MTA adds Return-Path to messages delivered through
a pipe, you could also check on the envelope return address:

/^return-path: <spammer@scammer\.net>$/i

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 10:56:06 1998
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Received: from carolyn.rpls.lib.il.us ([206.187.34.22]) by alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us with SMTP;
          Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:07:00 -0500
Message-ID: <35FD59AF.1519@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:00:15 -0500
From: Carolyn Rokke <carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
Organization: Rolling Prairie Library System
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Install question
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Hello,

Yes, I'm still trying to work out Majordomo on our DEC Alpha 400 with
UNIX 4.0b.

Under #10 of the install instructions it says create an empty file
"test" and issue a lists command to majordomo.

1.  is it lists or 'lists' that I type as the command (neither seems to
work, anyway).

2. the mail goes to majordomo (I can look in the log and see it).

3.  The instructions say "if everything is working correctly you should
get a message back from Majordomo, and not Mailer-Daemon.
I don't get a message back from anybody.

Every thing seemed to work OK up to this point, but I have no idea where
to look from here.  Is there any more information I could post that
would help you all know what I'm missing?
Thanks!
CArolyn
-- 
Carolyn Rokke
Rolling Prairie Library System
Decatur, IL  62522
217 429-2586
carolynr@rpls.lib.il.us

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 11:27:08 1998
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Received: from edgar.edgeglobal.com ([208.197.227.215])
	by elmwood.afterfive.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA29175
	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:55:53 -0400
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:55:53 -0400
Message-Id: <199809141755.NAA29175@elmwood.afterfive.com>
X-Sender: edgar@mail.afterfive.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: "James R. Edgar" <edgar@mail.afterfive.com>
Subject: A few questions
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

I am wondering if it is possible to do a couple of things.

First,
        Is it possible to change what will show up in the From: header

example=>     From: HES <hes@hesonline.com>  
              instead of 
              From: owner-hes-list@hes@hesonline.com

Second,
        Is it possible for the owner and to be the only one to post an
e-mail and not allow any of the subscribers to post.

Third,
        Does majordomo have a webbased interface or is it possible to add a
web based interface to majordomo. 


Any answers will be greatly appreciated.

 
James R. Edgar        Internet Programmer / Analyst
EdgeNet, Inc.        300 Theater Place, Buffalo, NY
E-mail: edgar@edgeglobal.com  Phone: (716).853.1331


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 12:11:08 1998
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Received: (from sjsobol@localhost)
	by amethyst.nstc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1/northshore) id PAA09178;
	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:21:39 -0400
Message-ID: <19980914152139.38726@amethyst.nstc.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:21:39 -0400
From: "Steven J. Sobol" <sjsobol@amethyst.nstc.com>
To: alan_s@shaknet.clark.net
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: authentication (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9809141045310.15211-100000@mulder.fox.net.au> <001c01bddfcc$4dde2b10$0100a8c0@reliant.shaknet.priv>
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In-Reply-To: <001c01bddfcc$4dde2b10$0100a8c0@reliant.shaknet.priv>; from Alan V. Shackelford on Mon, Sep 14, 1998 at 06:41:59AM -0400
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

On Mon, Sep 14, 1998 at 06:41:59AM -0400, Alan V. Shackelford wrote:
> Just my $0.02, but I don't consider this an error. Sure it's redundant day
> after day where majordomo is concerned, but I would like to know when
> someone changes the sender using -f.

If you use the suggestion I gave earlier, that will only change things for
user 'majordomo'. Other users will not be affected.

-- 
North Shore Technologies Corporation, Cleveland, Ohio 1.888.480.INET
Steve Sobol/President, Webmaster, Senior Programmer, Customer Service Guru :) 

Surf over to North Shore's newest website! Visit Greyhound Adoption of Ohio,
Inc. at http://www.greyhound-ohio.org



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 16:32:26 1998
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	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:20:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mike Dugas" <mad@inr.net>
To: "Andy C" <acobley@mic.dundee.ac.uk>,
        "Majordomo Users List" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: RE: Spammed through list owner account
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:26:43 -0400
Message-ID: <003101bde037$22805220$397c79cf@apollo.inr.net>
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Andy,

With a properly configured list, ALL e-mail sent to the list will appear to
have come from owner-listname@yourdomain.com.  This is not unusual.  Your
best course of action may be to call SprintNet and give them the date and
time the message was send, and from which IP it was sent from.  They can
usually track this information.  I know of a PSI customer it was done to
that way...

Regards,
--
Mike Dugas                                      Sr. Systems Administrator
mad@inr.net                               InterNet Resource NETworks, LLC
(603) 880-8120                                        Fax: (603) 880-8783

> -----Original Message-----
> From: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
> [mailto:majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM]On Behalf Of Andy C
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 1998 11:16 AM
> To: Majordomo Users List
> Subject: Spammed through list owner account
>
>
> One of my majordomo lists has been spammed through the  list
> owner account (i think)  Here is the header
> (spammed-list is the list name XXXYYY is the domain of the list)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> -------------
> Received: from smtp03.XXXYYY.com by dulce.mic.dundee.ac.uk with SMTP
> (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8)
> id R19XD39H; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:58:34 +0100
> Received: (from daemon@localhost)
> by smtp03.XXXYYY.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA01015;
> Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:04:34 -0700 (MST)
> Received: from ftp1.XXXYYY.com(206.165.5.50)
> via SMTP by smtp03.XXXYYY.com, id smtpd000382; Wed Sep  9 04:04:25 1998
> Received: (from root@localhost) by ftp1.XXXYYY.com (8.8.5/8.7.3)
> id EAA28043
> for spammed-list-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:01:55 -0700 (MST)
> Received: from forest.globalip.ch (forest.globalip.ch [194.235.29.119]) by
> ftp1.XXXYYY.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA28014 for
> <spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com>; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:01:51 -0700 (MST)
> Received: from ems1998 (sdn-ts-001flhhilP06.dialsprint.net
> [206.133.79.25])
> by forest.globalip.ch (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id FAA19604
> for spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:35:13 +0100
> (WET DST)
> From: owner-spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:35:13 +0100 (WET DST)
> Message-Id: <199809090435.FAA19604@forest.globalip.ch>
> To: <spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com>
> Subject: Make $2 - $3,000 Per Week From Home
> Sender: owner-spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> ------
>
> As you can see it originated at sdn-ts-001flhhilP06.dialsprint.net from
> ems1998
> and appears to have come from owner-spammed-list@lists.XXXYYY.com .
>
> Two things.
>
> 1: How can I stop any more from this organisation.  Will changing the
> sender field in the list config file stop this
>
> 2: How can I stop any organistaion doing this to my list ?
>
> Any help welcomed and sorry if this is a regularly asked question I could
> not see an obvious answer in the faq at:
> http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/majordomo-faq.html
>
> Thanks
> Andy
>
>
>


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 14 17:57:25 1998
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Message-ID: <35FDBEED.5569@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:12:12 -0600
From: Jorge Arturo Chaves <jachaves@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: jachaves@sol.racsa.co.cr
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC)
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Subject: welc
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as

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 08:27:27 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:59:35 -0400
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:59:35 -0400
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: "James R. Edgar" <edgar@mail.afterfive.com>
Subject: Pandora source code
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

I am wondering if anybody knows where I can get the Pandora source code, if
it is available.

James R. Edgar        Internet Programmer / Analyst
EdgeNet, Inc.        300 Theater Place, Buffalo, NY
E-mail: edgar@edgeglobal.com  Phone: (716).853.1331


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 08:58:12 1998
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	id 0zIwtV-0000bq-00; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:19:53 +0100
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:19:53 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: jachaves@sol.racsa.co.cr, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: welc
Message-ID: <19980915161953.B1390@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <35FDBEED.5569@sol.racsa.co.cr>
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Jorge Arturo Chaves wrote:

> as

That's lovely. Please learn to use a mail reader.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 10:27:55 1998
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	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Message-Id: <199809151733.KAA17316@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Spammed through list owner account
To: mad@inr.net (Mike Dugas)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: acobley@mic.dundee.ac.uk, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <003101bde037$22805220$397c79cf@apollo.inr.net> from "Mike Dugas" at Sep 14, 98 07:26:43 pm
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Mike Dugas said:
> 
> With a properly configured list, ALL e-mail sent to the list will appear to
> have come from owner-listname@yourdomain.com.

No. With a properly configured list, all mail will have the Sender:
set to owner-list, but the From: will still be from the originating
address. The only time the owner address will appear in From: is when
there is no From: to begin with, necessitating that Majordomo/sendmail 
invent headers to fill the void.

(This is most often seen when the Approved: header of BOUNCE mail is
placed in the wrong spot, so the missing headers are defaulted prior
to re-posting.)

The owner- address will *always* be the envelope address, but that is
not quite the same as being in the From: line as Andy is describing.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 11:43:29 1998
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	by tor.abc.se (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA01245;
	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:49:49 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:49:48 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Carolyn Rokke <carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Install question
In-Reply-To: <35FD59AF.1519@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
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On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Carolyn Rokke wrote:

> 2. the mail goes to majordomo (I can look in the log and see it).

If the mail ends up in a mailbox named /usr/mail/majordomo (or some other
path) you have forgotten to do a newaliases after updating the
/etc/aliases. You could always check where the mail would go by doing

/usr/lib/sendmail -v -bv majordomo

I should say that it would end in "wrapper".


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 13:26:52 1998
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	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:38:23 -0400
Message-ID: <35FECF43.8E79F6D@bivwood.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:34:11 -0400
From: Jake Levine <jlevine@bivwood.com>
Organization: Bivings Woodell, Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
CC: mhaque@bivwood.com
Subject: Re: trouble with separate aliases files
References: <35FE905C.8250307B@bivwood.com>
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I have just installed majordomo 1.94.4 and sendmail 8.9.1 on a i586
running Linux. With this config I supposedly am able to setup links in
my sendmail.cf file to outside aliases files such as
/usr/majordomo-1.9.4/majordomo.aliases. I setup this and another
list-based aliases file. When I execute newaliases, it comes back to me
with the following error:

"WARNING: Group writable directory /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists
newaliases: cannot open /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases: Group
writable file
/etc/aliases: 16 aliases, longest 29 bytes, 208 bytes total
newaliases: cannot open /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliases: Group
writable file"

I have checked the owners and groups of these files and folders and I
think they are correct, but have included them below anyway:

-rw-rw-r--   1 majordom daemon       5205 Sep 15 11:47 Log
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 15 09:49 Tools
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon       5234 Sep  9 12:37 archive2.pl
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep  9 12:36 bin
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon       2795 Sep  9 12:36 bounce-remind
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      10671 Sep  9 12:37 config-test
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      49673 Sep  9 12:36 config_parse.pl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      13031 Sep  9 12:37 digest
drwxrwxr-x   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 15 11:41 lists
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      64251 Sep  9 12:36 majordomo
-rw-rw-r--   1 majordom daemon        727 Sep 15 11:41 majordomo.aliases
-rw-r--r--   1 majordom daemon      10461 Sep  9 12:37 majordomo.cf
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      23763 Sep  9 12:36 majordomo.pl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon        137 Sep  9 12:36
majordomo_version.pl
drwxr-xr-x   4 majordom daemon       1024 Sep  9 12:38 man
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon       3532 Sep  9 12:37 request-answer
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      29520 Sep  9 12:37 resend
-rw-r--r--   1 majordom daemon      10462 Sep  9 12:37 sample.cf
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon       8060 Sep  9 12:37 shlock.pl
-rwsr-xr-x   1 root     daemon       6739 Sep  9 12:39 wrapper

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Jake



From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 17:57:04 1998
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Message-ID: <19980915160327.A18111@A470.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:03:27 -0400
From: Darren Wyn Rees <merlin@A470.demon.co.uk>
To: "James R. Edgar" <edgar@mail.afterfive.com>,
        majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: A few questions
References: <199809141755.NAA29175@elmwood.afterfive.com>
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In-Reply-To: <199809141755.NAA29175@elmwood.afterfive.com>; from James R. Edgar on Mon, Sep 14, 1998 at 01:55:53PM -0400
X-WWW: http://www.netlink.co.uk/cgi-merlin/lwgate
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On Mon, Sep 14, 1998 at 01:55:53PM -0400, James R. Edgar wrote:

>         Is it possible to change what will show up in the From: header

Please elaborate. Do you mean mail as it appears distributed from the
list?  Or what?  Why would you wish to rewrite 'From:'?
 
>         Is it possible for the owner and to be the only one to post an
> e-mail and not allow any of the subscribers to post.

Yes, certainly. Look in your listname.config file ...

        # moderate             [bool] (no) <resend>
        # If yes, all postings to the list  must be approved by the
        # moderator.

You could set up a moderated list.  Or, use 'restrict_post'
 
>         Does majordomo have a webbased interface or is it possible to add a
> web based interface to majordomo. 

Try David Baker's Lwgate (IIRC ... http://www.netspace.org/~dwb/)
There's a working example in the URL in my .sig  

-- 
Darren Rees		merlin@cvnet.co.uk

Allwedd calon, cwrw da. Good ale is a key to the heart.
http://www.netlink.co.uk/cgi-merlin/lwgate/valleys-l

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 18:26:12 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:33:05 -0500
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980915203240.00b2dc94@bizbotweekly.com>
X-Sender: bizbotweekly@bizbotweekly.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:32:42 -0700
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
Subject: Still getting mail
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I have several people who have are no longer on my list
but who still receive messages from it. 

The majordomo results says 'they are not
members of the list' yet they are getting mail.

Can anyone help?

thanks,

Brooks Douglass


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 22:11:13 1998
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To: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Still getting mail
References: <3.0.32.19980915203240.00b2dc94@bizbotweekly.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 16 Sep 1998 00:09:54 -0500
In-Reply-To: Brooks Douglass's message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:32:42 -0700"
Message-ID: <ufazpc0d4nx.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu>
Lines: 15
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>>>>> "BD" == Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com> writes:

BD> The majordomo results says 'they are not members of the list' yet they
BD> are getting mail.

People can get mail by a variety of paths; the address that the mail is
sent to does not necessarily resemble in any way the address that receives
it.  Generally, you'll want to see the headers of a message received by
such a user and trace the Received: headers.

In general, if someone complains of receiving mail that they don't want, and
hasn't sent you the headers of an unwanted messages then they haven't told
you anything.  Your first step should always be to get an example.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 15 23:41:09 1998
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From: "Michael Illingby" <michaeli@junction.net>
To: "majordomo greatcircle.com" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: creating new lists via email.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:45:58 -0700
Message-ID: <000501bde13d$a95de6c0$7c1c35d1@schroeder.bconnected.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I am new to the list, and have a question.
Is it possible to create new lists using majordomo-1.94.4 via an email? I
can do it via telnet, but I want to now if there is an easier way than that.
I find it a bit of a pain doing it via the prompt editing/ creating the
files/dirs. If this is not possible, has anyone written a script or an app
to create lists automaticly? Thanks in advance for your help.

Michael Illingby
Silver Star Computers
Vernon BC
Canada
Ham Call Sign VE7TFD
VBX-3 Co-Ordinator Vernon Balloon eXperiments

Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that).

I don't believe in miracles, I rely on them.

Click http://linus.vernon.net/pgp.txt for my Pgp Key.


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 00:11:41 1998
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Received: from localhost (wav@localhost)
	by wave.com.ph (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA19708;
	Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:39:35 +0800
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:39:35 +0800 (PHT)
From: "William A. Villanueva" <wav@pacific.wave.com.ph>
To: Jake Levine <jlevine@bivwood.com>
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM, mhaque@bivwood.com
Subject: Re: trouble with separate aliases files
In-Reply-To: <35FECF43.8E79F6D@bivwood.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980916143650.19127M-100000@pacific.wave.com.ph>
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On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jake Levine wrote:

> "WARNING: Group writable directory /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists
> newaliases: cannot open /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases: Group
> writable file
> /etc/aliases: 16 aliases, longest 29 bytes, 208 bytes total
> newaliases: cannot open /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliases: Group
> writable file"
> 
> I have checked the owners and groups of these files and folders and I
> think they are correct, but have included them below anyway:
> 
> drwxrwxr-x   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 15 11:41 lists
> -rw-rw-r--   1 majordom daemon        727 Sep 15 11:41 majordomo.aliases

As your error pointed out to you:  Group writable file

chmod 755 lists
chmod 644 majordomo.aliases



 ==================================================================== 
  Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we
  we do not see.  - Hebrews 11:1
 ==================================================== ICQ# 8313012 == 



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 00:27:17 1998
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Received: from localhost (wav@localhost)
	by wave.com.ph (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA19806;
	Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:48:10 +0800
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:48:09 +0800 (PHT)
From: "William A. Villanueva" <wav@pacific.wave.com.ph>
To: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Still getting mail
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980915203240.00b2dc94@bizbotweekly.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980916144723.19127P-100000@pacific.wave.com.ph>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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Might it be possible that they are subscribed using some other name and
the msgs there are getting forwarded to their current accounts?

 ==================================================================== 
  Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we
  we do not see.  - Hebrews 11:1
 ==================================================== ICQ# 8313012 == 

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Brooks Douglass wrote:

> I have several people who have are no longer on my list
> but who still receive messages from it. 


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 03:28:24 1998
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Received: from afina.es ([192.168.1.101]) by mull.afina.es
          (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01)  with ESMTP id AAA69EE
          for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>;
          Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:22:21 +0100
Message-ID: <35FF9399.65AC1CD2@afina.es>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:31:53 +0200
From: "Jose Ramon Lopez" <jramonlp@afina.es>
Reply-To: ramon.lopez@afina.es
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (WinNT; I)
X-Accept-Language: es
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: masquerading header From
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="------------A982D9270BF00A08B37ED726"
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------A982D9270BF00A08B37ED726
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,,,

In my company we had an majordomo list to talk about our work in a
criticize way, so it is very dangerous talk about things like: my boss
is stupid becouse........, I think that is wrong...... and so.

So we need to masquerading the **From header** of the person that post
the messages to the list. 

Now, this is the headers of messages sent to the list

-----------------------
From: user@domain.com
To: list-name@domain.com
----------------------------

I want to set-up majordomo to achieve this:

------------------------------
From: none
To: list-name@domain
------------------------------


Plese, can someone help me?
--------------A982D9270BF00A08B37ED726
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
 name="jramonlp.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for J.Ramon Lopez Paleo
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="jramonlp.vcf"

begin:vcard
n:Lopez Paleo;J.Ramon 
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Afina Sistemas;Internet/Intranet
adr:version:2.1
version:2.1
email;internet:ramon.lopez@afina.es
title:Netscape  Technical  Support
note:Netscape  Technical  Support
x-mozilla-cpt:;-9744
fn:J.Ramon Lopez Paleo
end:vcard


--------------A982D9270BF00A08B37ED726--


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 04:34:50 1998
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Received: from localhost (smithd@localhost)
	by blkbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA22915;
	Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:25:38 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:25:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Smith <smithd@blkbox.com>
To: Michael Illingby <michaeli@junction.net>
cc: "majordomo greatcircle.com" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: creating new lists via email.
In-Reply-To: <000501bde13d$a95de6c0$7c1c35d1@schroeder.bconnected.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980916062255.22649B-100000@blkbox.com>
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Michael Illingby wrote:

> I am new to the list, and have a question.
> Is it possible to create new lists using majordomo-1.94.4 via an email? I
> can do it via telnet, but I want to now if there is an easier way than that.
> I find it a bit of a pain doing it via the prompt editing/ creating the
> files/dirs. If this is not possible, has anyone written a script or an app
> to create lists automaticly? Thanks in advance for your help.

Take a look at my scripts, http://www.blkbox.com/~smithd/majordomo which
can create lists, as well as set up defaults and mail the owners guide.

It is still a work in progress and has some rough edges (in particular it
expects some directories to be in non-standard places, I put all the list
related files/directories in the lists directory).


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 05:00:11 1998
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Received: from WIND.WINONA.MSUS.EDU by WIND.WINONA.MSUS.EDU
 (PMDF V5.1-11 #17530) id <01J1V6GNHZM8000LF6@WIND.WINONA.MSUS.EDU> for
 majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:12:49 CST
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:12:49 -0600 (CST)
From: wnpauls@WIND.WINONA.MSUS.EDU
Subject: Re: Still getting mail
In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19980915203240.00b2dc94@bizbotweekly.com>
To: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Message-id: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980916070852.27762A-100000@WIND.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

The usual cause of this  is that these people have changed their email
addresses (or their system adm did) and you are looking for their "new"
address, which of course is not on the list!  You may have to ask them
what their "old" address is, and use it to delete them from the list.

Paul

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Brooks Douglass wrote:

> I have several people who have are no longer on my list
> but who still receive messages from it. 
> 
> The majordomo results says 'they are not
> members of the list' yet they are getting mail.
> 
> Can anyone help?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Brooks Douglass
> 
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 06:10:38 1998
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  by wizvax.wizvax.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 13:00:28 -0000
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916085313.007e18f0@krusty-motorsports.com>
X-Sender: rweltynw@krusty-motorsports.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:53:13 -0400
To: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
From: Richard Welty <rwelty@neworks.net>
Subject: Re: Still getting mail
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <ufazpc0d4nx.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu>
References: <Brooks Douglass's message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:32:42 -0700">
 <3.0.32.19980915203240.00b2dc94@bizbotweekly.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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At 12:09 AM 9/16/98 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
>>>>>> "BD" == Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com> writes:

>BD> The majordomo results says 'they are not members of the list' yet they
>BD> are getting mail.

>People can get mail by a variety of paths; the address that the mail is
>sent to does not necessarily resemble in any way the address that receives
>it.  Generally, you'll want to see the headers of a message received by
>such a user and trace the Received: headers.

>In general, if someone complains of receiving mail that they don't want, and
>hasn't sent you the headers of an unwanted messages then they haven't told
>you anything.  Your first step should always be to get an example.

you also need to check the dates. some sendmail installations that haven't
been tuned for heavy mailing list duty may have lots of backlogged email,
and it can take a while for queues to clear out after subscribers have been
removed from the list in question.

richard

-- 
Richard Welty
NeWorks Networking, Inc.                                  518-244-9675
rwelty@neworks.net                             http://www.neworks.net/


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 06:25:48 1998
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Received: from localhost (dhill@localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by bajan.pct.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02355
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:18:31 -0400
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:18:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Hill <dhill@sunbeach.net>
X-Sender: dhill@bajan.pct.edu
To: MajorDomo Mailing List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Wrapper
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980916091701.2352C-100000@bajan.pct.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Greetings folks.

Trying to run Majordomo on an AIX 4.3 box, and the wrapper keeps dying
with signal 213.  Can I safely run majordomo without the wrapper?  How
much functionality will I lose?

Thanks in advance.

--

Duncan Hill			Penn College Proud - www.pct.edu



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 06:56:13 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id GAA07689; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:28:16 -0700 (PDT)
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Received: from localhost (lawppw@localhost)
	by gsulaw.gsu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA17005;
	Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:38:19 -0400
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:38:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
Reply-To: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: ramon.lopez@afina.es
cc: "majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: masquerading header From
In-Reply-To: <35FF9399.65AC1CD2@afina.es>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980916093618.16952G-100000@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

You need an anonymizer.  I posted mine to the list on Sunday, August 2,
1998.  You should be able to find it in the archive.

Patrick

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Jose Ramon Lopez wrote:

:So we need to masquerading the **From header** of the person that post
:the messages to the list. 


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 07:44:36 1998
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	by londo.prescienttech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29259
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:32:06 -0400
From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: masquerading header From
References: <35FF9399.65AC1CD2@afina.es>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 16 Sep 1998 10:32:06 -0400
In-Reply-To: "Jose Ramon Lopez"'s message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:31:53 +0200"
Message-ID: <x7vhmonn6h.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
Lines: 34
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Jose Ramon Lopez writes:

> In my company we had an majordomo list to talk about our work in a
> criticize way, so it is very dangerous talk about things like: my boss
> is stupid becouse........, I think that is wrong...... and so.

Seriously, you should move that list off-site.  True, the Bill of Rights
guarantees your right to say what you believe; it does not guarantee that
your company will provide you with a soapbox.

> So we need to masquerading the **From header** of the person that post
> the messages to the list. 

There are a number of anonymizing remailers out there.  You would be much
better off using one of those instead of hacking up Majordomo.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNf/L5J6VRH7BJMxHAQF0ogP+JrBcYAS4v1YSyHzT8bw1J4RHod7GZYOM
apQQOJhAlMyDi6hVE41j5/G+WV7YnigcA91nQgLz0opSOjubsv38gWY3A2g2vlmQ
tCxntWwjTLPsHbki3xQ/fRs4/VfoMjF78GWXq6aqalP2zUTFjRAs8EzxVuplpl3n
PL88/l56/Sc=
=C8TT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / core, which, if exposed due to
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / rupture, should not be touched,
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / inhaled, or looked at.


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 08:52:11 1998
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From: miller@rbs.org
Received: from notes.rbs.org (notes.rbs.org [192.204.104.5])
	by pilot.rbs.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA13509
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:19:55 -0400 (EDT)
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X-Lotus-FromDomain: RBS
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Message-ID: <85256681.0055A2A6.00@notes.rbs.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:34:23 -0400
Subject: cc and duplication
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk


Using: Majordomo 1.94.4 and Sendmail 8.8.8 on Solaris 2.5.1

I'm having a severe technical problem with a list I run and I thought I'd present the
problem to this group.  I've been looking at it from several angles, and I have been
subscribed to this group for a couple weeks hoping some clues would crop up (I searched
the archives for 'duplication' threads without any luck in finding my particular issue)

A fairly active list with approximately 800 subscribers (well, at least before the problem
began) is humming along when some one replies to a message to this list by cc'ing it
(there is a single user's email address in to the To:).  I'm guessing the user simply used
a reply-to-all function in their mail client.  What happens next is a duplication process
which exponentially increases the number of instances the list address appears in the cc:
header line of the message.

So the first message looks like:

To: person@company.com
cc: list@company.com
...

Then the next message:

To: person@company.com
cc: list@company.com, list@company.com
...

Then the following:

To: person@company.com
cc: list@company.com, list@company.com, list@company.com, list@company.com


Now, I'm probably missing something really simple (I hope).  I ran some tests and could
not duplicate the problem, and my first line of reasoning held that something in the
header, maybe the original cc: line itself, had something to do with the duplication.
Perhaps it's a sendmail configuration issue?  I don't know, so I took a look and found
that the original poster put the list name in front of the list address within a double
quote and single quote:

"'listname'" <list@company.com>

I tried duplicating the format and sendmail wouldn't let me, nor would one or two email
clients I tried (it didn't like the double-quote quote form, as I'm assuming it
shouldn't).  So the test was inconclusive, and I still don't know how the original poster
got that address through my mail gateway when my gateway won't let me do it from inside.
In any case, the problem occurred again and this time it was just the list address in the
cc line (again, a reply to another post) without list name in some quoted form.

Does this smell familiar to anyone?

-ron




From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 08:55:31 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:44 -0600 (MDT)
Message-Id: <199809161551.JAA00987@spitfire.cs.utah.edu>
From: Mark J Bradakis <mjb@cs.utah.edu>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980916144723.19127P-100000@pacific.wave.com.ph>
Subject: Re: Still getting mail
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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What I do on a rather irregular basis is send out a message to each
individual subscriber.  I've got a short perl script that given a file
name with a list of addresses in it, sends out a piece of email to each
address.  The basic message is below, LISTNAME and USER_NAME is replaced
by the pertinent info.  It does help catch people who can't remember what
their email address might have been at one time.

mjb.
----

You are getting this message because you are subscribed to

     LISTNAME@autox.team.net

as the user

     USER_NAME


If this is satisfactory, ignore this message.



If you want to be removed from LISTNAME, then send an email message to

majordomo@autox.team.net with nothing but the line

  unsubscribe LISTNAME USER_NAME

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 09:42:03 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:33:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Raven <raven@Tribe.OnlineToday.Com>
To: ramon.lopez@afina.es
cc: "majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: masquerading header From
In-Reply-To: <35FF9399.65AC1CD2@afina.es>
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Out of curiosity, why would you want a list that could be so potentially
career ending (you say dangerous) in the first place?  I wouldn't be
concerned about painting a target on my chest like that.  Just a thought.

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Jose Ramon Lopez wrote:

> Hi,,,
> 
> In my company we had an majordomo list to talk about our work in a
> criticize way, so it is very dangerous talk about things like: my boss
> is stupid becouse........, I think that is wrong...... and so.
> 
> So we need to masquerading the **From header** of the person that post
> the messages to the list. 
> 
> Now, this is the headers of messages sent to the list
> 
> -----------------------
> From: user@domain.com
> To: list-name@domain.com
> ----------------------------
> 
> I want to set-up majordomo to achieve this:
> 
> ------------------------------
> From: none
> To: list-name@domain
> ------------------------------
> 
> 
> Plese, can someone help me?


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 09:54:28 1998
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Message-ID: <35FFEC5D.F8B8917F@bivwood.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:50:38 -0400
From: Jake Levine <jlevine@bivwood.com>
Organization: Bivings Woodell, Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: newaliases problems continue
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

ok, now i got the permissions correct on all files and directories, but
now when i run newaliases, the following is occuring:

"hash map "Alias2": unsafe map file
/usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases.db: Permission denied
WARNING: cannot open alias database
/usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliasesCannot create database for alias
file /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases
/etc/aliases: 16 aliases, longest 29 bytes, 208 bytes total
hash map "Alias1": unsafe map file
/usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliases.db: Permission denied
WARNING: cannot open alias database
/usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliasesCannot create database for alias
file /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliases"

any ideas?

thanks in advance.

jake


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 11:24:45 1998
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	Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:11:19 -0700
From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn@deliberate.com>
Message-Id: <199809161811.LAA10103@deliberate.com>
Subject: Re: welc
To: ben@scientia.demon.co.uk (Ben Smithurst)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: jachaves@sol.racsa.co.cr, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <19980915161953.B1390@scientia.demon.co.uk> from "Ben Smithurst" at Sep 15, 98 04:19:53 pm
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> 
> Jorge Arturo Chaves wrote:
> 
> > as
> 
> That's lovely. Please learn to use a mail reader.

Gee Ben,

I think that you might be a little more generous with people.  If you
run email lists, you know that the medium is confusing and error-prone
and people always need some slack and encouragement.

Jorge's mistake was clearly inadvertant and he doesn't deserve your
sacastic attack.

                                       *
Marilyn                               *
                                     *
                                    *
Marilyn Davis, Ph.D.-------------- * ---- eVote - online polling 
|                                 *       software for email lists:
|                          *     *        eVote-info@deliberate.com 
marilyn@deliberate.com      *   *         
(650) 965-7121 ------------- * * -------- http://www.deliberate.com 
                              *           



> 
> -- 
> Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/
> 
> PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
>      http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 13:25:21 1998
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	id 0zJMxr-0001vG-00; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:10:07 +0100
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:10:07 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: ramon.lopez@afina.es, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: masquerading header From
Message-ID: <19980916201007.C25422@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <35FF9399.65AC1CD2@afina.es>
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Jose Ramon Lopez wrote:

> In my company we had an majordomo list to talk about our work in a
> criticize way, so it is very dangerous talk about things like: my boss
> is stupid becouse........, I think that is wrong...... and so.
> 
> So we need to masquerading the **From header** of the person that post
> the messages to the list. 
> 
> Now, this is the headers of messages sent to the list
> 
> -----------------------
> From: user@domain.com
> To: list-name@domain.com
> ----------------------------
> 
> I want to set-up majordomo to achieve this:
> 
> ------------------------------
> From: none
> To: list-name@domain
> ------------------------------

Yes, by editing the source code. Look in the resend script for a block
something like,

$skip_headers = '/^from /i' .
          '|| /^x-confirm-reading-to:/i' .
[...]
          '|| /^encoding:/i'
          ;

Somewhere within that block, add a line like

        '|| /^from:/i' .

(make sure you include the dot at the end). This will make the From:
header be removed. Repeat as needed for other identifying headers, for
example reply-to:, message-id:.

There are probably better ways, such as stripping _all_  headers, except
Subject:. Try this to acheive that.. look for a block like

  if (eval $skip_headers) {
     $kept_last = 0;
[...]

Then replace 

  eval $skip_headers

with

  !/^subject:/i

or, to keep Date: as well,

  !/^subject:/i && !/^date:/i

Expand as needed for other headers to want to keep.  This will skip all
headers except subject.  (This, I think, will break multiline subject:
headers, but those seem fairly rare.)  You may like to add

From: none
To: list@domain

to the message_headers block in the config file too.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 13:56:18 1998
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	Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:42:20 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:42:19 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Jake Levine <jlevine@bivwood.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: newaliases problems continue
In-Reply-To: <35FFEC5D.F8B8917F@bivwood.com>
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On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Jake Levine wrote:

> ok, now i got the permissions correct on all files and directories, but
> now when i run newaliases, the following is occuring:
> 
> "hash map "Alias2": unsafe map file
> /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases.db: Permission denied

You should move all aliases files to /etc/, chmod 644, chown root.
Remember to change path in sendmail.cf and restart sendmaiil. Then it
should work.



-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 14:11:01 1998
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From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: welc
References: <199809161811.LAA10103@deliberate.com>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 16 Sep 1998 16:57:36 -0400
In-Reply-To: Marilyn Davis's message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:11:19 -0700 (PDT)"
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Marilyn Davis writes:

> I think that you might be a little more generous with people.  If you
> run email lists, you know that the medium is confusing and error-prone

Internet mail is anything but confusing and error-prone, at least to the
end-user.  Badly written MUAs are another matter entirely, but even a bad
MUA can be useful if one takes the time to learn to use it properly.
Claiming anything else is nothing more than an attempt to cover ignorance
with the excuse, "computers are hard to use" or "I don't have time to learn
this stuff".

Put it this way: if you want to drive a car, you are expected to be
familiar with how to operate it before you take it out on the highway.
There is no difference, conceptually, between learning to drive your car
and learning how to use your mail client.

Of course, if you insist on being incompetent, you certainly are going to
be yelled at by the other drivers.  Do you really expect otherwise?

That is what just happened here.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNgAmP56VRH7BJMxHAQE6QQP/Y31D/mBNk/03rzd9u4m9YgcP43MIBduJ
xjLuwT7mru/qmFPGOS32KpvJ3mwxB9DIZdlHzWHBOEeWqB4uuspB9OMbXssQKcml
2HnvxxQuz1BTuHOnr7nznmBEyigsslm8FBpBE4e2bH+LvIJWDweKRG4kXj3WQbyL
ZHzW01KzfTk=
=kn48
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Caution: Happy Fun Ball may
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / suddenly accelerate to dangerous
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / speeds.
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 16:30:42 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:16:36 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:16:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt McLean <mattmc@ans.net>
X-Sender: mattmc@tifosi.aa.ans.net
Reply-To: mattmc@ans.net
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Error in To line
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Folks,

OK, I've got a list;

list@list.myhost.com

It works fine, except the mail it sends out appears to go;

To: list@list@list.myhost.com

Any ideas where to look?

Peace,
--
  Matt McLean                                   Web Hosting group
  Systems Engineer II                                tifosi


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 16 19:40:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:35:47 -0400
From: Michael Goumans <mgoumans@uunet.ca>
To: Jake Levine <jlevine@bivwood.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: newaliases problems continue
In-Reply-To: <35FFEC5D.F8B8917F@bivwood.com>
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You must run newaliases as a user who can write to those directories.

Mike


Mike Goumans                                   mgoumans@uunet.ca
Unix Systems Manager                            416-216-5137(tel)
UUnet Canada                                    416-719-1984(pgr)
"It's amazing to me how far UNIX has to go today to catch up to NT"
-David Dawson Microsoft IE for Unix developer

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Jake Levine wrote:

> ok, now i got the permissions correct on all files and directories, but
> now when i run newaliases, the following is occuring:
> 
> "hash map "Alias2": unsafe map file
> /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases.db: Permission denied
> WARNING: cannot open alias database
> /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliasesCannot create database for alias
> file /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases
> /etc/aliases: 16 aliases, longest 29 bytes, 208 bytes total
> hash map "Alias1": unsafe map file
> /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliases.db: Permission denied
> WARNING: cannot open alias database
> /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliasesCannot create database for alias
> file /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliases"
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> thanks in advance.
> 
> jake
> 
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 01:26:42 1998
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:11:55 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Endreffy Janos <ayes@sch.bme.hu>
X-Sender: ayes@twister
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: My digest problem
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.02.9809171004530.6460-100000@twister>
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Greetings.

Yes, I've read the FAQ. :-)

My problem:
Digest are generated right away, one after the another, and you
can get them via the "index+get" combination. But it doesn't get 
e-mail-ed to <list>-digest subscribers when it's finished.

Other info:
RedHat Hurricane, Perl 5.00404, sendmail 8.8.7

The problem is exactly the same for all digested lists.

Thanks,

&rossz
************************************************************************
http://www.sch.bme.hu/~ayes - http://www.rpg.hu/palantir - ICQ: 16288484


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 01:43:36 1998
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: masquerading header From 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:31:53 +0200."
             <35FF9399.65AC1CD2@afina.es> 
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:28:33 +0200
From: Michael Salmon <Michael.Salmon@uab.ericsson.se>
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+----- On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:31:53 +0200, "Jose Ramon Lopez" writes:

| In my company we had an majordomo list to talk about our work in a
| criticize way, so it is very dangerous talk about things like: my boss
| is stupid becouse........, I think that is wrong...... and so.
| 
| So we need to masquerading the **From header** of the person that post
| the messages to the list. 
| 
| Now, this is the headers of messages sent to the list
| 
| -----------------------
| From: user@domain.com
| To: list-name@domain.com
| ----------------------------
| 
| I want to set-up majordomo to achieve this:
| 
| ------------------------------
| From: none
| To: list-name@domain
| ------------------------------

It's possible but all anyone need to do is look at the mail logs to see 
who sent the message to the list. All that you have done is to make it 
harder to find out.

/Michael


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 07:23:26 1998
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From: bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca (Bill Silvert)
Message-Id: <199809171333.KAA26334@ecology.bio.dfo.ca>
Subject: Learning to use ...
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM (Majordomo Users)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:33:49 -0300 (ADT)
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Usually I ignore Rich Pieri's snarky postings, but this seemed a bit
much:

>There is no difference, conceptually, between learning to drive your car
>and learning how to use your mail client.

Wow! If you drive a car badly you can kill people. That is why we have
driving tests and licensing regulations.

Could someone explain why some people feel it necessary to flame
everyone who isn't as smart as themselves? We seem to have an epidemic
of road rage on the information highway.

-- 
Bill Silvert, Habitat Ecology Section, Bedford Institute of Oceanography,
P. O. Box 1006, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2, Tel. (902)426-1577
http://www.mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/mesd/he/staff/silvert/silvert.html

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 08:07:52 1998
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Reply-To: <sl@nashbar.com>
From: "Stephen Labedz" <sl@nashbar.com>
To: "majordomo greatcircle.com" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: What is going on with majordomo???
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:44:33 -0400
Message-ID: <000701bde249$af2e9ec0$46b1040c@sl.nashbar.com>
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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We have a very large information list (148,000) that we send out. We used to
use ListServ and Sendmail with no problems, and sent out our first mailing
with Majordomo, bulk_mail, and Sendmail last night.

It has created a few problems, and I'm not sure why they are happening.

I am getting this message in the majordomo owners mail:
MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_majordomo)!!
Can't open /usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/<listname>: File exists

All of the permissions are set correctly so it can write to it.


When a person tries to unsubscribe they get this reply from majordomo:
unsubscribe <listname> sl@nashbar.com
>>> Sorry, an error has occurred while processing your request
>>> The caretaker of Majordomo ( majordomo-owner@domain.com ) has been
notified
>>> of the problem.


And the most confusing error is that either majordomo or sendmail are
creating new files within the lists directory, such as:
L.<listname> - a file that has a number in it. It has been growing
throughout the day. When I looked this morning it was at 745, it is
currently at 1314. I did not create this file!

<listname.new> - This file appeared soon after the mailing was started. It
contains names from the <listname> file, and is growing throughout the day.
This morning it was at 2,450 names, and now is at 10,379.

Here is my aliase config:
<listname>: "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend
@/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/resend_file"
<listname-outgoing>: "|/usr/local/bin/bulk_mailer
owner-<listname>@domain.com /usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/<listname>"
owner-<listname>: listowner,
<listname>-owner: listowner
<listname>-request: "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo -l
<listname>"
<listname>-approval: listowner

Please help,

Thanks

Stephen Labedz


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 10:34:34 1998
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From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Learning to use ...
Reply-To: rich.pieri@prescienttech.com
References: <199809171333.KAA26334@ecology.bio.dfo.ca>
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Date: 17 Sep 1998 13:13:02 -0400
In-Reply-To: bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca's message of "Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:33:49 -0300 (ADT)"
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Lines: 35
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Bill Silvert writes:

>> There is no difference, conceptually, between learning to drive your car
>> and learning how to use your mail client.

> Wow! If you drive a car badly you can kill people. That is why we have
> driving tests and licensing regulations.

That's why I said *CONCEPTUALLY*: if you are going to use it, you are
expected to learn to use it properly, regardless of what 'it' might be.

> Could someone explain why some people feel it necessary to flame
> everyone who isn't as smart as themselves?

I flame the ignorant who desire to remain ignorant, because they deserve no
better.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNgFDHZ6VRH7BJMxHAQEPfQP/WcumKAGILXaGAV1EQlZSGUGXBbWzBlTy
KHlADLSqvJPIlPC1J78kCGLli3S0vC4nBhmzwrxdeSVSenwztI3bvxQXLFwO0dRX
J9BV3kQisq87KPgDOidodmT4H6tKfVCp/bfpmM4jryD2g5NIBt7MC4sWz0s6VW/S
IsrE3EMgdug=
=w0ec
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke,
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / get away immediately. Seek shelter
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / and cover head.
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 20:03:59 1998
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:48:24 -0700
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
Subject: Unsubscribers still get mail
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I have people who have unsubscribed from
my list but are still receiving messages
from it. The majordomo results says 'they are not
members of the list' yet they are getting mail.

Can anyone help?

thanks,

Brooks Douglass



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 20:16:19 1998
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Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:11:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christian Dawson <dawson@mecca.servint.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Can you help?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.02A.9809132106460.15853-100000@mecca.servint.com>
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I am trying to set up a list on my BSDI BSD/OS 2.1 box.

The listname is "symphoniestogod" and when somebody tries to unsubscribe,
the list owner gets this message:

chmod(33188, "/usr/home/list/majordomo-1.94.3/lists/symphoniestogod.new"):
Operation not permitted

Do you have any idea what this means?



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 20:31:16 1998
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Message-ID: <36007224.5F99DD5B@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:21:24 -0400
From: Lien-Anh Duong <lduong@po-box.mcgill.ca>
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I forgot to mention I'm sure Sendmail 8.8.7 on a Unix platform.  My
majordomo 1.94.4 that was installed causes core dumps.  The version of
perl is 5.005_01.  I can create lists and send mail to a list address
but no 'who' or 'approve' commands can be executed.

Thanks.



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 20:46:25 1998
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To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Michael Behar <michaelb@wired.com>
Subject: unwanted messages
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Precedence: bulk

i use majordomo to run a private list. however, a nonmember continues to
post to the list. they are not a subscriber, so they don't receive
postings. but they still post annoying messages, mostly spams, almost
daily. is there any way to instruct majordomo to not allow them to post to
the list? a filter or block of sorts?

thanks,
michael




From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 20:57:10 1998
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	Sat, 12 Sep 1998 06:09:11 -0600 (MDT)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 06:14:25 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ward Deng <wdeng@KachinaTech.COM>
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
cc: Ward Deng <wdeng@KachinaTech.COM>
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Help!

I got the following error message from one of my Majordomo mailing lists
as soon as someone sends to the list. I looked at it and found there are
a bunch of digest.xxxx files under /var/tmp. They are same size and appearantly
created whenever the following message was created. Also there is 
"debian-ultralinux-digest.config.LOCK" file geneated under lists dir. I noticed
another list also has this LOCK file now but I did not remember I got similar
error message from that list.

I think it was screwed up at the very beginning but do not know why. Now I 
wante to know how to fix it without messing up archives.

Thanks,

--ward

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:26:23 -0600 (MDT)
From: Majordomo@KachinaTech.COM
To: Majordomo-Owner@KachinaTech.COM
Subject: MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_digest)

--


MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_digest)!!

open(DIGEST, ">/var/majordomo/lists/debian-ultralinux-digest.archive/v01.n001"): No such file or directory



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 20:57:35 1998
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Message-ID: <3600719F.4D3D39CD@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:19:11 -0400
From: Lien-Anh Duong <lduong@po-box.mcgill.ca>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U)
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To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Core Dumps with Majordomo
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Hi.

I've installed majordomo 1.94.4 and I'm running Perl 5.005_01.  I've
been able to create lists and sendmail delivers to all the names on the
list without any problem, but when I send commands to majordomo such as
who or approve, they are not executed.  Instead there is a core dump
that is made in the majordomo directory.  Any help would be appreciated.

Lien-Anh



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 20:59:09 1998
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X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:51:24 -0700
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
Subject: Re: Still getting mail
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Might it be possible that they are subscribed using some other name and
>the msgs there are getting forwarded to their current accounts?

That was my first thought and is usually the case. But after 
a growing number of people have complained I believe it is a
problem with the listserver.

I checked their email addresses and they "were" subscribed
under them in July.  They later unsubscribed from the list but 
are still getting mail. Some have returned headers.

One of the addresses is an account of mine, I unsubscribed it 
and am 'no longer on the list' but it is still getting mail sent
to that address.

Help!

Brooks Douglass


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 21:00:25 1998
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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:50:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>
Reply-To: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: permissions/ownership error.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980915174017.1570E-100000@wopr.iuinc.com>
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i'm getting errors like:
- - -
MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_majordomo)!!

chown(15001, 15001, "/usr/local/majordomo/lists/illimms.new"): Operation not 
permitted
- - -

it's majordomo 1.94.4 on a redhat 5.1 linux system.
anyway, the problem seems to be that new files created in
/usr/local/majordomo/lists get set to majordomo.daemon ownership
(majordomo owner, daemon group).  and that's apparently messing things up.
when i go in to that dir and chown majordomo.majordomo *, then
everything's fine for a while.. until someone tries to modify something
again and a new file gets created with those ownerships.  is there
anything i can do to prevent this?  change something in /etc/group?
reconfigure majordomo to use majordomo.majordomo instead of using the
"daemon" group?  any ideas?

-tcl.
tim@iuinc.com



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 21:17:36 1998
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:14:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: mdmonk <mdmonk@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu>
Reply-To: mdmonk <mdmonk@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Bounced Messages
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980917163928.13274B-100000@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu>
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I am suddenly getting bounced messages from one list
(I have more than one list configured. We are able to
send to and receive from, the other lists).

A snippet from the headers are as follows:
-------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:29:05 -0500
From: owner-server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu
To: owner-server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu
Subject: BOUNCE server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu:  
   Admin request of type 
/^\s*index\s+\S+\s*$/i at line 8

>From server_tm-owner@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu  Thu Sep 17 16:29:01 1998
Received: from mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu
(IDENT:mdmonk@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu [138.87.151.22])
        by mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA13188;
        Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:29:01 -0500
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:29:01 -0500 (CDT)
To: server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu

----------------------------------------------------

Any ideas what may be occuring? Up until recently,
we have been able to send email to this list.
None of the aliases have changed.

Thanks for any and all replies.

  Chuck L.




From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 21:30:07 1998
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From: "Jacob Miner" <jacob_miner@hp.com>
To: <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: List errors....
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:15:23 -0600
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Hi All,

	I ran my majordomo list(s) fine for a year, and recently I am seeing this in the log file...

Sep 14 07:25:47 myhost.foo.foo.foo majordomo[24575] {Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@them.foo.foo.foo>} ABORT
mylist@myhost.foo.foo.foo: not replying to MAILER-DAEMON to avoid mail loop.

	And this in e-mail...

MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_majordomo)!!

mylist@myhost.foo.foo.foo: not replying to MAILER-DAEMON to avoid mail loop.

	I am seeing this for about 15 hosts out of 290.  Does anyone know what is going on here?  I can't find anything else in the log
files or e-mail that tells me what kind of message was being delivered or for what list etc.  Thanks...



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 21:34:09 1998
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	by marvin.ink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23513
	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:32:26 -0500
Message-ID: <35FFE818.F21FD905@ink.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:32:25 -0500
From: "Bruce L. Rice" <bruce@ink.org>
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: aliasing/forwarding loop broken error.
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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I just install majordomo on a new machine.  I can send mail to majordomo

and it works fine.  I can subscribe and unsubscribe to lists, but
I can't post messages to any of the lists.  When I try it gives me an
aliasing/forwarding loop broken error e-mail message.  The message
says....

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<test@ink8.ink.org>
:include:/export/staff/majordom/lists/test
    (expanded from: <test@ink8.ink.org>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 :include:/export/staff/majordom/lists/test  ... Cannot open
/export/staff/majordom/lists/test: Group writable
directory
Message delivered to mailing list <test@ink8.ink.org>
554 <test@ink8.ink.org>... aliasing/forwarding loop broken

In the FAQ is says to make sure you have an e-mail in the list, which a
do or that it is a permissions problem.  I have tried a varity of
permission settings and nothing seems to work.

the machine is a sun server runing solaris 2.6, majordomo version 1.94.4

and sendmail version 8.9.0

would appreciate the help if anybody has any ideas on what could be
causing it.
thanks.





From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 21:47:43 1998
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Message-ID: <19980916161805.A6026@A470.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:18:05 -0400
From: Darren Wyn Rees <merlin@A470.demon.co.uk>
To: Michael Illingby <michaeli@junction.net>,
        "majordomo greatcircle.com" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: creating new lists via email.
References: <000501bde13d$a95de6c0$7c1c35d1@schroeder.bconnected.net>
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X-WWW: http://www.netlink.co.uk/cgi-merlin/lwgate
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On Tue, Sep 15, 1998 at 11:45:58PM -0700, Michael Illingby wrote:

> Is it possible to create new lists using majordomo-1.94.4 via an email? 

Yes.  From the man page for Mj it says, mail a message to Majordomo with

       "newconfig list password
which
       Validates  and installs a new configuration file. The con-
       fig file includes everything up to the string  EOF  or  to
       the  end  of  the mail message, whichever comes first. <snip>"

> If this is not possible, has anyone written a script or an app
> to create lists automaticly? Thanks in advance for your help.

There is a shell script called 'createlist' (dated circa '94) lurking
in the list archives at greatcircle.com (for this list).   It
creates a set of list aliases (for Sendmail) etc.  You could modify
it and use it as a basis for a semi-automated setup.  

Rgds,
-- 
Darren Rees		merlin@cvnet.co.uk

Am gwymp hen y chwardd gwynwas. 
At the fall of the old the young man laughs.
http://www.netlink.co.uk/cgi-merlin/lwgate


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 22:02:38 1998
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	by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id NAA20090
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:10:54 -0700
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	id NAA03163; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:11:46 -0700
Message-Id: <199809142011.NAA03163@mpk07.eng.sun.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Oliver <Mike.Oliver@Eng.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Mike Oliver <Mike.Oliver@Eng.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: authentication (fwd)
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
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Roddy Strachan <roddy@satlink.com.au> wrote:
> 	I was wondering if anyon eon the list, knows how to get rid of the
> following error msg from the sendmail logfile :
> 
> Authentication-Warning: southx.sx.com.au: majordomo set sender to
> majordomo-owner@satlink.com.au using -f 

If you search the list archives you'll see that this question has
cropped up and been answered several times.  It's in the FAQ too
(Section 2.1), although it's only mentioned in passing there.

The answer is that sendmail generates this warning unless the user who
invoked `sendmail -f' is named as a "trusted user" in the sendmail
configuration.  If you're running sendmail V8.7 or better and want to
suppress that message then you can add your Majordomo username to the
list of trusted users.  Exactly how you do this depends on your site
conventions.  You want to add the Majordomo username to the "t" class.
You can do that in a sendmail .cf file by using the T or Ct directive,
or do it in a separate file referenced through an Ft directive.

As an example, if your T directive currently looks like this:

    T root daemon uucp
    
and your Majordomo's username is "majordom" then what you want is
simply:

    T root daemon uucp majordom

Don't forget to run newaliases after making the edit.

Mike.
-- 
mike.oliver@eng.sun.com



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 22:17:53 1998
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Message-ID: <004c01bde1ab$bdb8bd20$14eaa7cc@apl.rbgroup.com>
From: "Rolando Paez" <rpaez@fastel.net>
To: <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: unsafe map file ERROR
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:53:56 -0500
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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- Hi,I am running FreeBSD 2.2.6 RELEASE, with sendmail.  I have run
'wrapper config-test' and it has returned with no errors.  However when
newaliases
or sendmail runs I get the next message on the terminal


sendmail[578]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(root): hash map "Alias1": unsafe map file
/usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo: Permission denied
WARNING: cannot open alias database /usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo
Cannot create database for alias file
/usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo:
Operation not supported by device

- And every now and then:

sendmail[578]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(root): hash map "Alias1": unsafe map file
/usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo: No such file or directory

- This is how the file aliases.majordomo looks on the system

drwxr-xr-x   8 majordom  majordom  1024 Sep 16 14:20 majordomo
% cd majordomo
% pwd
/usr/local/majordomo
% ll|grep aliases.majordomo
-rw-r--r--  1 bin      bin      4541 Sep 16 12:58 aliases.majordomo

- And I have tried it as:

-rw-rw-r--  1 root      wheel      4541 Sep 16 12:58 aliases.majordomo
-rw-rw-r--  1 bin      wheel      4541 Sep 16 12:58 aliases.majordomo
-rw-r--r--  1 root      wheel      4541 Sep 16 12:58 aliases.majordomo
-rw-r--r--  1 bin      wheel      4541 Sep 16 12:58 aliases.majordomo

- This is how the file sendmail.cf looks

# location of alias file
O AliasFile=/etc/aliases, /usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo
<--------- Current
#O AliasFile=/usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo
<--------- I have tried it like this


If you know what is happening please let me know

Rolando Paez
Laredo Texas
rpaez@iname.com





From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 22:24:31 1998
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  by postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 2.6b1)
  with SMTP id 1432143; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:47:28 -0400
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X-Sender: hlaufman@postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (16)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:48:27 -0400
To: Carolyn Rokke <carolynr@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
From: "Harrington B. Laufman" <hlaufman@postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Install question
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <35FD59AF.1519@alpha1.rpls.lib.il.us>
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Hello Carolyn,

I am not looking at the install instructions so bear with me.

At 01:00 PM 9/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Under #10 of the install instructions it says create an empty file
>"test" and issue a lists command to majordomo.
>
>1.  is it lists or 'lists' that I type as the command (neither seems to
>work, anyway).

The documentation tells me:

    "Public commands can be used by anyone and include:

    subscribe <list> [<address>]
    unsubscribe <list> [<address>]
    which [<address>]
    who <list>
    info <list>
    index <list>
    get <list>
    lists
    help
    end"

If majordomo is processing an incoming message and doesn't understand,
it sends the help documentation.  You should get a reply no matter what.
I usually send the command "info listname" which will cause a generic
listname.config file to be generated.

Is majordomo in your /etc/sendmail/aliases as something like

  majordomo: "|/users/major/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"

Did you issue the command "newaliases" after any changes to 
/etc/sendmail/aliases to cause sendmail to update its alias database?

Majordomo is usually not an account, but is a [set of] script[s] which 
processes incoming e-mail addressed to the Major or one of his lists.

Harrington


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Harry Laufman  Manager, Computer Operations
       OSU College of Food, Agricultural and Environmental Sciences
                    E-Mail: laufman.1@osu.edu
       101 Vivian Hall                 Voice: 614-292-6554
       Columbus, Ohio 43210            FAX  : 614-688-4009
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From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 22:48:36 1998
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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:58:58 -0400
From: BMackenzie@draper.com (Bruce A Mackenzie)
Subject: majordomo web subscribe form
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Cc: BMackenzie@draper.com (Bruce Mackenzie)
Reply-to: BMackenzie@draper.com (Bruce A Mackenzie)
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>> From: "James R. Edgar" <edgar@mail.afterfive.com>
>> Does majordomo have a webbased interface or is it possible to add a
>> web based interface to majordomo. 


I know 3 diferent people who wrote special purpose cgi scripts for
people to subscribe & UNsubscribe to various e-mail lists via a web page.

We would very much like a standard version of it.

 Typically, the new subscriber types their e-mail address and name
(optional) in a web form.  Then a cgi script constructs a 'subscribe'
message and sends it to majordomo.

Trouble is, it is hard to catch typing errors in their e-mail address.
And, people can type someone else's address.

  ---

To suggest a less error-prone majordomo enhancement:
   A web page could use the html "mailto:" reference.  But, 'mailto:" 
can not put the word 'subscribe' in the body of a message.
So, it must addressed to a new address: 'list-subscribe@majordomo...'
This eliminates the need for the subscriber to type his address.
They can subscribe with about 2 mouse clicks ('mailto:'  &  'send').

   An alternate is to specify a default 'subject:' with the 'mailto:'
reference, ie,   "mailto: majordomo@... Subject: subscribe list-name"
(can someone remind me of the exact syntax privately).
But, I don't want to start an argument on the merits of putting
commands in subject lines, so ... never-mind.

  ----

An example of a web-subscribe form where the subscriber must type and
confirm his address is near the bottom of:    www.spaceviews.com
 But please do not try to subscribe to SpaceViews this week, 
unless you want the NSS Space Exploration & Development newsletter.
We are switching servers, so you can subscribe, but not UNsubscribe, now.
 Let me know if the majordomo team wishes to enhance & support this in
a future release.

Thanks, 
 ---Bruce A. Mackenzie    BMackenzie@draper.com 


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 23:16:22 1998
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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:05:48 -0400
From: Jake Levine <jlevine@bivwood.com>
Organization: Bivings Woodell, Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: trouble with separate aliases files
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I have just installed majordomo 1.94.4 and sendmail 8.9.1 on a i586
running Linux. With this config I supposedly am able to setup links in
my sendmail.cf file to outside aliases files such as
/usr/majordomo-1.9.4/majordomo.aliases. I setup this and another
list-based aliases file. When I execute newaliases, it comes back to me
with the following error:

"WARNING: Group writable directory /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists
newaliases: cannot open /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases: Group
writable file
/etc/aliases: 16 aliases, longest 29 bytes, 208 bytes total
newaliases: cannot open /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliases: Group
writable file"

I have checked the owners and groups of these files and folders and I
think they are correct, but have included them below anyway:

-rw-rw-r--   1 majordom daemon       5205 Sep 15 11:47 Log
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 15 09:49 Tools
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon       5234 Sep  9 12:37 archive2.pl
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep  9 12:36 bin
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon       2795 Sep  9 12:36 bounce-remind
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      10671 Sep  9 12:37 config-test
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      49673 Sep  9 12:36 config_parse.pl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      13031 Sep  9 12:37 digest
drwxrwxr-x   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 15 11:41 lists
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      64251 Sep  9 12:36 majordomo
-rw-rw-r--   1 majordom daemon        727 Sep 15 11:41 majordomo.aliases

-rw-r--r--   1 majordom daemon      10461 Sep  9 12:37 majordomo.cf
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      23763 Sep  9 12:36 majordomo.pl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon        137 Sep  9 12:36
majordomo_version.pl
drwxr-xr-x   4 majordom daemon       1024 Sep  9 12:38 man
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon       3532 Sep  9 12:37 request-answer
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon      29520 Sep  9 12:37 resend
-rw-r--r--   1 majordom daemon      10462 Sep  9 12:37 sample.cf
-rwxr-xr-x   1 majordom daemon       8060 Sep  9 12:37 shlock.pl
-rwsr-xr-x   1 root     daemon       6739 Sep  9 12:39 wrapper

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Jake



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 17 23:17:55 1998
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From: Dave Barr <barr@cis.ohio-state.edu>
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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:05:01 -0400 (EDT)
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
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Subject: Majordomo Frequently Asked Questions
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Version: $Id: majordomo-faq.html,v 1.196 1998/09/11 21:11:24 barr Exp barr $
URL: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/majordomo-faq.html
Archive-Name: mail/majordomo-faq
Posting-Frequency: monthly

   Note: This FAQ has been recently updated to be exclusively for
   Majordomo 1.94 and up.
   
   Table of Contents:
    1. What is Majordomo and how can I get it?
          + 1.1 - What is Majordomo?
          + 1.2 - Where do I get Majordomo?
          + 1.3 - How do I install it?
          + 1.4 - How do I upgrade from an earlier release?
          + 1.5 - Where do I report bugs or get help with Majordomo?
          + 1.6 - Which is better, Majordomo or LISTSERV?
          + 1.7 - How can I access Majordomo via the Web?
          + 1.8 - Is Majordomo Y2K (Year 2000) compilant?
    2. Problems setting up Majordomo
          + 2.1 - What are the proper permissions and ownership of all
            Majordomo files and directories?
          + 2.2 - I get a MAJORDOMO ABORT with "chown(...): Not owner" or
            ".. Operation not permitted"
          + 2.3 - I get "sh: wrapper: cannot execute" or "wrapper:
            permission denied"
          + 2.4 - I get "Unknown mailer error" when majordomo runs
          + 2.5 - I get an error "insecure usage" from the wrapper
          + 2.6 - I get "majordomo: No such file or directory" from the
            wrapper
          + 2.7 - I get an error "Can't locate majordomo.pl"
          + 2.8 - I told my majordomo.cf where to archive the list, why
            isn't it working?
          + 2.9 - config-test can't seem to find ctime.pl or resend can't
            find getopts.pl
          + 2.10 - A list is visible via lists, but can't subscribe or
            'get' files
          + 2.11 - I get "sh: wrapper not available for sendmail
            programs"
          + 2.12 - I get "Aliasing/Forwarding Loop Broken"
    3. Setting up mailing lists and aliases
          + 3.1 - How do I direct bounces to the right address?
          + 3.2 - Semi-automated handling of bounced mail
          + 3.3 - What's this Owner-List and List-Owner stuff? Why both?
          + 3.4 - How should I configure resend for Reply-To headers?
          + 3.5 - How can I hide lists so they can't be viewed by
            'lists'?
          + 3.6 - How can I restrict a list such that only subscribers
            can send mail to the list?
          + 3.7 - Can I have the list owner or approval person be
            changeable without intervention from the Majordomo owner?
          + 3.8 - What are all these different passwords?
          + 3.9 - How do I tell majordomo to handle "get"-ing of binary
            files?
          + 3.10 - How do I set up a moderated list? How do I approve
            messages?
          + 3.11 - How do I set up a digested version of a list?
          + 3.12 - How do I setup virtual majordomo domains?
          + 3.13 - How can I stop people from using my mailing list to
            spam my subscribers?
    4. Mailer and list admininistration problems
          + 4.1 - Address with blanks are being treated separately
          + 4.2 - Why aren't my digests going out?
          + 4.3 - Why do I get duplicate mail sent to the list?
          + 4.4 - How do I gate my list to and/or from a newsgroup?
          + 4.5 - How can I improve Majordomo's performance?
          + 4.6 - How can I handle X.400 addresses?
          + 4.7 - Why is the Subject of my messages missing?
          + 4.8 - I'm getting mail from majordomo with "BOUNCE:" what do
            I do? How do I stop this?
          + 4.9 - My list configuration doesn't seem to be working.
          + 4.10 - How do I set it up so that the originator of a message
            doesn't get a copy of his/her own message back?
          + 4.11 - With Smail or Exim, users subscribing to a list
            sometimes get mail sent before they subscribed
          + 4.12 - Majordomo doesn't seem to work with sendmail 8.9
       
   This FAQ is Copyright 1996 by David Barr and The Ohio State
   University. This document may be reproduced, so long as it is kept in
   its entirety and in its original format.
   
   Credits:
   This FAQ originally written by Vincent D. Skahan. Many thanks to the
   members of the majordomo-workers and majordomo-users mailing lists for
   many of the questions and answers found in this FAQ. Thanks to
   fen@comedia.com (Fen Labalme) for getting an HTML version started.
   
   You can get an HTML version of this FAQ on the World Wide Web at
   http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/majordomo-faq.html. You can
   request a copy by email by sending a message to
   mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu, with the following text in the body:
   
send usenet/comp.mail.list-admin.software/Majordomo_Frequently_Asked_Questions

   If you have any questions or submissions regarding this FAQ, send them
   to barr@cis.ohio-state.edu (David Barr).
     _________________________________________________________________
   
Section 1: What is Majordomo and how can I get it?

  1.1 - What is Majordomo?
  
   Majordomo is a program which automates the management of Internet
   mailing lists. Commands are sent to Majordomo via electronic mail to
   handle all aspects of list maintainance. Once a list is set up,
   virtually all operations can be performed remotely, requiring no
   intervention upon the postmaster of the list site.
   
   See the main Majordomo web page at:
   http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/
   
   Majordomo controls a list of addresses for some mail transport system
   (like sendmail or smail) to handle. Majordomo itself performs no mail
   delivery (though it has scripts to format and archive messages).
   
     majordomo - n: a person who speaks, makes arrangements, or takes
     charge for another. From latin "major domus" - "master of the
     house". 
     
   Majordomo is written in Perl. It will work with Perl 4.036 or Perl
   5.002 or greater. It will not work with Perl 5.001!!!. It is
   recommended that you use the latest release of Perl that you can get,
   which can be found at http://www.perl.com/perl/. You must upgrade to
   version 1.94.3 in order for it to work with Perl 5.004, due to changes
   in regular expressions. Unfortunately, Majordomo does NOT work with
   Perl 5.005_01, due to a bug in Perl with respect to regular
   expressions. Wait for Perl 5.005_02. While Majordomo is still
   compatible with Perl 4.036, future versions will likely be Perl 5
   only.
   
   Many people have been having problems with DEC OSF/1 AXP systems with
   Majordomo. Apparently Perl on the Alphas is not as stable as compared
   to other platforms, and Majordomo tickles bugs in that port of Perl.
   If you are having problems, please make sure you are running the very
   latest version of Perl (version 5.002 is known to work).
   
   There have also been reported problems with the native compiler for
   AIX 3.2.5. Perl compiled with that compiler will crash when running
   Majordomo (even though it passes all the regression tests), however if
   you compile Perl with gcc it will work.
   
   Majordomo was developed under UNIX based systems, but will probably
   work on others. If you can get Perl to compile and run cleanly on your
   system, and can send Internet mail by piping or calling an external
   program (and that external program reads its list of recipients from a
   plain text file), you can probably get Majordomo to work on a wide
   variety of UNIX-based and non-UNIX based systems. There is no known
   port of Majordomo to Windows NT or Win95. For more information, see
   the comp.os.msdos.mail-news FAQ. At last check there was a port of an
   old version (1.93) to MS-DOS/Waffle, and an old version (1.93) ported
   to OS/2. These probably aren't all that helpful for anyone porting
   Majordomo to NT.
   
   Here's a short list of some of the features of Majordomo.
   
     * supports various types of lists, including moderated ones.
     * List options can be set easily through a configuration file,
       editable remotely.
     * Supports archival and remote retrieval of messages.
     * Supports digests.
     * Written in Perl, - easily customizable and expandable.
     * Modular in design.
     * Includes support for FTPMAIL.
     * Supports confirmation of subscriptions (to protect against forged
       subscription requests).
     * List filters
       
  1.2 - Where do I get Majordomo?
  
   Via the Web at:
   http://www.greatcircle.com/majordomo/ Via anonymous FTP at:
   ftp://ftp.greatcircle.com/pub/majordomo/
   ftp://ftp.sgi.com/other/majordomo/
   ftp://ftp.sgi.com/other/majordomo/
   
   The current version is 1.94.4. It includes a security fix for a bug
   found in 1.94.3 and prior.
   
   If you don't have Perl, you can get it from:
   
   http://www.perl.com/perl/
   
   Use that link for more information about Perl, too. The FTPMAIL
   package can be found in ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/ftpmail or any
   comp.sources.misc archive (volume 37).
   
   Majordomo 2 is currently being developed by Jason Tibbits. Currently
   it's "alpha" quality. Join the majordomo-workers list (see below) if
   you want to use this release. You can find out how to get Majordomo 2,
   as well as information about this release at
   http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/
   
  1.3 - How do I install it?
  
   Majordomo comes with a rather extensive INSTALL file. Read this file
   completely. There's also a README file which also covers some common
   problems. This FAQ is meant to be a supplement to Majordomo's
   documentation, not a replacement for it. If you have any questions
   that this FAQ doesn't cover, chances are that it is covered in the
   documentation in the Majordomo distribution. For anyone who is going
   to run a list, you must read Doc/list-owner-info before trying to do
   anything. If you don't have access to the system where your list is
   being run, the Majordomo maintainer who set up your list should have
   sent it to you. Bug him if he didn't.
   
   If you have permission problems unpacking the distribution, try using
   the 'o' flag to tar to ignore user/group information.
   
  1.4 - How do I upgrade from an earlier release?
  
   Be sure to browse the "Changelog" file to get an idea what has
   changed. There currently is no canned set of instructions for
   upgrading from an earlier release. The most straightforward method is
   to simply install the current release in a different directory, (with
   the same list/archive/digest directories) and change the mail aliases
   for each list to use the new Majordomo scripts as soon as you feel
   comfortable with the new setup.
   
   Be careful in upgrading to 1.94 that you update your $mailer and
   $bounce_mailer variables in your majordomo.cf! There are also some
   other new variables too. You may want to update the list .config files
   so they contain any new variables found in the new release. You just
   need to do a 'writeconfig' for each list, and majordomo will update
   the .config file using the existing values in the old .config file.
   Any new variables will be set to defaults for a new list.
   
  1.5 - Where do I report bugs or get help with Majordomo?
  
   Please DO NOT ask the FAQ maintainer for help on Majordomo. I will
   accidently delete your message. Let me say that about 90% of the
   answers I give are from the documentation or this FAQ. Most of the
   rest are answered by reading the source. It's really not that hard to
   figure out. The remainder of the questions I get are usually sendmail
   questions, which really should be asked in comp.mail.sendmail.
   
   If you need help, there is a mailing list
   majordomo-users@greatcircle.com, which is frequented by lots of users
   of Majordomo. Report actual bugs to majordomo-workers@greatcircle.com.
   It's a good idea to search or browse the list archives below for the
   last couple months since many of the same questions are asked (and
   answered) regularly. There are searchable list archives (thanks to
   Jason Tibbitts) at http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo-users/ and
   http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo-workers/.
   
   Be sure always to include which version of Majordomo you are using.
   You should also include what operating system you are using, what
   version of Perl, and what mailer (sendmail, smail, qmail, etc) and
   version you are using, especially if you can't get Majordomo to work
   at all. But first, you must have thoroughly read the ALL documentation
   in the Majordomo distribution and this FAQ. If you got this FAQ from
   the Majordomo distribution, or anywhere except from the WWW site at
   the top of this document don't expect it to be up-to-date. It's
   probably not.
   
   There is an FTP site for unofficial patches. See
   http://sol.ccsf.cc.ca.us/ftp/majordomo-patches/ . What's in it?
   Messages that are saved from the majordomo-users and -workers mailing
   lists. There are INDEX files in each part with one-line summaries of
   each patch, and a README file in the top directory with overall
   information. If you have patches that you think should be in the
   archive, you can FTP or email them in. The top-level README file tells
   how to do it. Please contribute -- to save other people the headaches
   you had. NOTE: The patches are NOT "official" patches approved by Chan
   Wilson or anyone else. Use your own judgement before (and after) you
   apply them.
   
   Nick Perry also has various patches for 1.94.3 at
   ftp://ftp.amulation.co.uk/pub/majordomo_patches/. They are patches
   which add various functions to majordomo.
   
   Do NOT ask questions about Majordomo on the
   list-managers@greatcircle.com list. That list is for general
   discussions about running mailing lists, not for help on specific
   packages. The same goes for the Usenet group
   comp.mail.list-admin.policy.
   
   There is a good guide for people running majordomo lists at
   http://docuspace.uchicago.edu/g_maj-adm.html.
   
   Look for a great book out now from O'Reilly and Associates called
   "Managing Mailing Lists", by Alan Schwartz. You can read my review of
   the book at
   http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/managing-maillist-review.html . I
   was one of the book's technical reviewers.
   
  1.6 - Which is better, Majordomo or LISTSERV?
  
   For a good comparison of various mailing list managers (MLM's) there's
   a good FAQ by Norm Aleks. It is posted monthly to news.answers and
   comp.mail.list-admin.software. It's also mirrored at the following
   URL. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/mail/list-admin/software-faq. (this file
   no longer exists, apparently. If anyone knows where this, please let
   me know) Contact naleks@library.ummed.edu (Norm Aleks) for more
   information.
   
  1.7 - How can I access Majordomo via the Web?
  
   There are various Web interfaces to Majordomo available.
     * LWGate - http://www.netspace.org/users/dwb/lwgate.html
     * Regan's - http://www.peak.org/peak_info/mlists/Majordomo.html
     * MajorCool - http://ncrinfo.ncr.com/pub/contrib/unix/MajorCool/
     * MailServ - http://iquest.com/~fitz/www/mailserv/
     * Pandora - http://www.ed.umuc.edu/pandora/
     * Maitre-d - http://www.outer.net/wps/content2.htm#ch12
     * Gutierrez' - http://gaia.gutierrez.com/majordomo/
     * Marcos' - http://www.inf.utfsm.cl/~marcos/majordomo/www.html
     * ListTool - http://www.listtool.com/
     * Wilma (a list archive interface) -
       ftp://sol.ccsf.cc.ca.us/majordomo-contrib/
       
  1.8 - Is Majordomo Y2K (Year 2000) compilant?
  
   The current release of Majordomo has no known year 2000 issues. Older
   versions had problems only if you used the "archive" program to
   maintain list archives, since it used only a 2-digit year. If you use
   the new 4-digit year flags to archive you should not have any year
   2000 problems.
   
   No one has officially certified Majordomo to be Y2K compliant, and I
   don't forsee anyone paying money to do so, so don't go looking for
   someone to sue if it breaks. All we are saying is that we know of no
   year 2000 issues with Majordomo.
   
   That being said, as you can see by reading the Majordomo source,
   except for the "archive" program majordomo doesn't directly deal with
   dates so it's extremely unlikely there are any year 2000 issues. Even
   places where it does use dates (archive) it doesn't do any date
   comparisions, which is the crux of all non-cosmetic year 2000 bugs. At
   worst "archive" would overwrite your 100-year-old mailing list
   archives. I really really doubt Majordomo will still be used for 100
   years.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
Section 2: Problems setting up Majordomo

  2.1 - What are the proper permissions and ownership of all Majordomo files
  and directories?
  
   By far the biggest problem in setting up Majordomo is getting all the
   permissions and ownerships right. In part this is due to the security
   model that Majordomo uses, and it's also due to the fact that it's
   hard to automate this process. Once you install majordomo, run
   "./wrapper config-test" as some other user (like you) and read the
   results. Do NOT run "./wrapper config-test" as 'root' or your
   'majordom' user. That will defeat the test of the wrapper operation.
   The config-test script will check your installation for correct
   permissions (as well as other tests) and report any problems. It's not
   quite perfect, but it catches 95% of all problems.
   
   Majordomo works by using a small C "wrapper" which works by allowing
   Majordomo to always run as the "majordom" user and group that you
   create. (note that the wrapper may disappear in a future release,
   since its function could safely be replaced by features found in Perl
   5) You can use a different name than "majordom" for your user and
   group, but that is what is assumed for the explanations found in this
   document. The 1.94.3 INSTALL file suggests using 'daemon' as your
   majordomo group. This is the group that 'sendmail' runs as, and allows
   you to have $homedir permissions set to 750. This has the disadvantage
   in environments where there may be one or more administrators of the
   Majordomo system or where you don't want to always have to 'su' the
   the majordomo user to do administration. (you don't really want to put
   other normal users in the 'daemon' group for security reasons) If you
   create a separate 'majordom' group and add yourself and other
   majordomo administrators to it, then you'll need to make sure the
   $homedir and wrapper have world execute permission, and you may have
   to add 'majordom' to the 'trusted' list of users in your sendmail.cf.
   (otherwise sendmail 8.x will probably give
   "X-Authentication-Warning:"'s)
   
   Because Majordomo does not run with any "special" (root) priviliges,
   and because of the fact that Majordomo does a lot of .lock-style
   locking (with shlock.pl), permissions on all files and directories are
   critical to the correct operation of Majordomo.
   
    The wrapper
    
   The wrapper is compiled in one of two ways, by uncommenting the
   correct section in the Makefile for your type of system. If you are
   unsure if your system is POSIX or not, I would suggest you assume that
   your system is not. (The default is POSIX) If things don't work right
   (for example you get symptoms of permission problems or you get an
   error from the wrapper saying to recompile using POSIX flags), then
   try POSIX.
   
   Some systems which are non-POSIX: SunOS 4.x, Ultrix, most BSD 4.2 and
   4.3-based systems. POSIX systems include: Solaris 2.x, IRIX 5.x, BSDI
   (and other 4.4 BSD-based systems), Linux.
   
   Make sure W_PATH is right in the Makefile. On IRIX 5.x, you need to
   add /usr/bsd to the W_PATH to get the hostname (needed by Perl)
   command. (IRIX doesn't have a /usr/ucb). If you are on a non-POSIX
   system, the wrapper must be both suid and sgid (mode 6755) to
   "majordom". It must not be setuid root!
   
   OR
   
   On a POSIX system the wrapper must be setuid root, and double-check
   that W_USER and W_GROUP are the uid and gid of the "majordom" user and
   group. Don't ever set W_USER to be 0!
   
   Then compile the wrapper and install it. Do not install the wrapper on
   an NFS filesystem mounted with the "nosuid" option set. This will
   prevent the wrapper from working.
   
    Majordomo files
    
   All files that majordomo creates will be mode 660, user "majordom",
   group "majordom" if it is running correctly (see $config_umask in the
   majordomo.cf). The "Log" file that Majordomo writes logging
   information to must have this same permission and ownership. Make sure
   any files you create by hand (.config, subscription lists) have this
   same permission and ownership. (they can also be mode 664 if you don't
   need the contents to be private to others) The permissions/ownership
   of the Majordomo programs and related files themselves aren't as
   critical, but the must all be readable to the "majordom" user/group.
   All Majordomo programs (majordomo, resend, etc.) must have the execute
   bit set. All Majordomo programs must have the correct path to Perl in
   the #! line in the beginning of the script. The 'make install' process
   should do this all automatically for you.
   
    Majordomo directories
    
   All directories under Majordomo's control ($homedir, $listdir,
   $digest_work_dir, $filedir, as defined in your majordomo.cf) must be
   at least mode 750 (or 755 if you don't use "daemon" as your majordomo
   group -- see below.). They should be user and group owned by
   "majordom". If want to allow a local user to be able to directly
   modify files or for example copy files into a list's archive
   directory, you may make the directory or file owned by that user.
   However directories and files must be then group-"majordom" writeable
   (770 or 775).
   
  2.2 - I get a MAJORDOMO ABORT with "chown(...): Not owner" or ".. Operation
  not permitted"
  
   Most likely your wrapper is not installed correctly. Re-check the
   Makefile and see if the wrapper was compiled with the right UID and
   GID. See the README and the above section on how to set the
   permissions correctly. Make sure after you fix the wrapper that you
   remove (or rename) any "listname.new" or "L.listname" files found in
   your lists directory. These will likely have the wrong ownerships, and
   cause you problems.
   
   You should have seen an error if you ran "./wrapper config-test". If
   not, it's a bug in config-test and should be fixed.
   
  2.3 - I get "sh: wrapper: cannot execute" or "wrapper: permission denied"
  
   This is a bug in the 1.94 Makefile. You'll see this in new installs of
   Majordomo if you don't use a majordomo group of 'daemon'. The
   majordomo $homedir needs to have permission of at least 751 (or 755),
   not 750. Otherwise, sendmail won't have permission to execute the
   wrapper. You'll need to do a 'chmod 755 $homedir' after you install
   majordomo. Make sure 'wrapper' also has world execute permission. Some
   people also have put the user 'daemon' in the 'majordom' group. This
   works too.
   
  2.4 - I get "Unknown mailer error" when majordomo runs
  
   If something is wrong with your setup, the wrapper will often exit
   with various return codes depending on what the problem is. In order
   to really understand what is going on, look at the session transcript
   further down in the bounce message to see the error which is returned
   from the wrapper or from Majordomo. You should usually see some sort
   of error message. If you just get a return code, check the Majordomo
   README for futher explanation on sendmail return codes. If you get
   "Unknown mailer error XX" where XX is less than 255, look for the
   error in /usr/include/errno.h . Otherwise, see the README.
   
   See section 1.1 above for what versions of Perl won't work with
   Majordomo.
   
   [reported by Russell Street]
   You may also get problems when messages to majordomo are queued (for
   example if you change sendmail's behavior to always queue messages
   rather than perform immediate delivery). The problem was that if
   sendmail queues a message it smashes the case in command lines and
   addresses when the queue gets processed. This is in spite of the lines
   shown by mailq. This is sendmail 5.x on Solaris 2.3, but it might
   apply to other versions of sendmail.
   
  2.5 - I get an error "insecure usage" from the wrapper
  
   The argument to "wrapper" should be simply be the command, not the
   full path to the command. "wrapper" has where to look compiled in to
   it (the "W_HOME" setting in the Makefile) and for security reasons
   will not let you specify another directory.
   
   Your alias should say for example:
   
   |"/path/to/majordomo/wrapper majordomo"
   
  2.6 - I get "majordomo: No such file or directory" from the wrapper
  
   Make sure that the #! statement at the beginning of all the Majordomo
   Perl executables contain the correct path to the perl program (the
   default is /usr/local/bin/perl). Note many UNIXes have a 32 character
   limit on that path -- make sure it doesn't exceed this limit. Make
   sure also that majordomo and all the related scripts are in the W_HOME
   directory as defined in the Makefile when you compiled the wrapper.
   
  2.7 - I get an error "Can't locate majordomo.pl"
  
   [from Brent Chapman]
   Majordomo adds "$homedir" from the majordomo.cf file to the @INC array
   before it goes looking for "majordomo.pl". Since it's not finding it,
   I'd guess you have one of two problems:
   
   1) $homedir is set improperly (or not set at all; there is no default)
   in your majordomo.cf file.
   
   2) majordomo.pl is not in $homedir, or is not readable.
   
   [from John P. Rouillard]
   3) Note that the new majordomo.cf file checks to see if the
   environment variable $HOME is set first, and uses that for $homedir.
   Since the wrapper always sets HOME to the correct directory, you get a
   nice default, unless you are running a previously built wrapper, in
   which case you may get the wrong directory.
   
   [from Andreas Fenner]
   4) I had the same problem when I installed majordomo (1.62). My
   Problem was a missing ";" in the majordomo.cf file - just in the line
   before setting homedir .... My hint for you: Check your perl-files
   carefully.
   
  2.8 - I told my majordomo.cf where to archive the list, why isn't it working?
  
   [From John Rouillard]
   The archive variables in majordomo.cf aren't used to archive anything.
   You have to use a separate archive program, or a sendmail alias to do
   the archiving. The info is used to generate a directory where the
   archive files are being placed by some other mechanism.
   
   You are telling majordomo to look in the directory:
   /usr/local/mail/majordomo/archive/listname
   
   for files that it should allow to be gotten using the get command.
   
   Majordomo comes with three different archive programs that run under
   wrapper, that do various types of archiving. Look in the contrib
   directory.
   
  2.9 - config-test can't seem to find ctime.pl or resend can't find getopts.pl
  
   ctime.pl and getopts.pl are included in the standard Perl
   distribution. If it can't find it, it means Perl was not installed
   correctly. Re-install Perl. (you may want to take the opportunity to
   upgrade Perl, too)
   
  2.10 - A list is visible via lists, but can't subscribe or 'get' files
  
   [From Brent Chapman]
   I'll bet your list name has capital letters in it... Majordomo smashes
   all list names to all-lower-case before attempting to use the list
   name as part of a filename. So, while it's OK to advertise (for
   instance) "Majordomo-Users" and have the headers say
   "Majordomo-Users", the file names and archive directory names
   themselves all need to be in lower case. If you want to use mixed
   case, simply configure the list using the lower-case names everywhere,
   except put the mixed-case version in the "-l" and "-h" flags to
   resend.
   
  2.11 - I get "sh: wrapper not available for sendmail programs"
  
   You're on a system which uses smrsh. (sendmail restricted shell). You
   have to configure smrsh to allow it to execute the wrapper. Normally
   this is done by creating a symlink in /var/adm/sm.bin to Majordomo's
   wrapper program.
   
  2.12 - I get "Aliasing/Forwarding Loop Broken"
  
   [ Reported by Wade Williams ]
   Some people have noted sendmail will generate a bounce message if you
   send to a list, but the list file is empty (there are no subscribers).
   Add a subscriber to the list and the error should go away.
   
   You may also get this error if the permissions on the list file for
   that list in the lists directory is incorrect.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
Section 3: Setting up mailing lists and aliases

  3.1 - How do I direct bounces to the right address?
  
   You should use 'resend' to filter all messages. Make sure the "sender"
   variable in the list config file points to "owner-listname" and that
   you have defined the "owner-listname" alias to point to the owner of
   the list.
   
   What this does is force outgoing mail to have the out-of-band envelope
   FROM be "owner-listname", and thus all bounces will be redirected to
   that address. (This address is what gets copied into the message body
   as the "From " or "Return-Path:" header). 'resend' also inserts a
   "Sender:" line with the same address to help people identify where it
   came from, but that header is not used in the bounce process.
   
   If you are using sendmail v8.x, you don't have to use 'resend' to do
   the same thing. You simply have to define an alias like this:
   
   owner-sample: joe,
   
   Note the trailing comma is necessary to prevent sendmail from
   resolving the alias first before putting it in the header. Without the
   comma, it will put "joe" in the envelope from instead of
   "owner-sample". Either address will work, of course, but the generic
   address is preferred should the owner ever change.
   
   However if you choose not to use 'resend', you will have to do without
   most of majordomo's other features like moderating, administrivia
   checks, and others.
   
  3.2 - Semi-automated handling of bounced mail
  
   This is not true automation of bounced mail. What this does is the
   next best thing. You unsubscribe the user from the list, but add the
   user to a special 'bounces' list (there's a perl script in the
   distribution called bounce you run to make this easier) The majordomo
   maintainer then runs (out of cron) the 'bounce-remind' script
   periodically, which sends mail to all the people on the bounces list,
   saying essentially "you were removed from list 'foo' because mail to
   you bounced. To subscribe yourself back to the list, send the
   following commands ...". There's no facility yet for trimming the
   bounces list, but it's easy to write one because the date the person
   was added to the bounces list is included (so you could write a perl
   script which removes anyone on the list for more than one week,
   assuming you run bounce-remind more than once a week). There's no
   facility for automatically detecting what addresses are failing. You
   have to determine that based on the bounce messages you receive from
   other sites.
   
   [From John Rouillard]
   Just create a mailing list called "bounces". I usually set mine up as
   an auto list just to make life easier.
   
   All that "bounce" script does is create an email message to majordomo
   that says:

   approve [passwd] unsubscribe [listname] [address]
   approve [passwd] subscribe bounces [address]

   The [address] and [listname], are given on the command line to bounce.
   The address of the majordomo, and the passwords are retrieved from the
   .majordomo file in your home directory.
   
   A sample .majordomo file might look like (shamelessly stolen from the
   comments at the top of the bounce script):

   this-list       passwd1         Majordomo@This.COM
   other-list      passwd2         Majordomo@Other.COM
   bounces         passwd3         Majordomo@This.COM
   bounces         passwd4         Majordomo@Other.COM

   A command of "bounce this-list user@fubar.com" will mail the following
   message to Majordomo@This.COM:

   approve passwd1 unsubscribe this-list user@fubar.com
   approve passwd3 subscribe bounces user@fubar.com (930401 this-list)

   while a command of "bounce other-list user@fubar.com" will mail the
   following message to Majordomo@Other.COM:

   approve passwd2 unsubscribe other-list user@fubar.com
   approve passwd4 subscribe bounces user@fubar.com (930401 this-list)

   Note that the date and the list the user was bounced from are included
   as a comment in the address used for the "subscribe bounces" command.
   
  3.3 - What's this Owner-List and List-Owner stuff? Why both?
  
   [From David Barr]
   The "standard" is spelled out in RFC 1211 - "Problems with the
   Maintenance of Large Mailing Lists".
   
   It's here where the "owner-listname" and "listname-request" concepts
   got their start. (well it was before this, but this is where it was
   first spelled out)
   
   Personally, I don't use "listname-owner" anywhere. You don't really
   have to put both, since the "owner" alias is usually only for bounces,
   which you add automatically anyway with resend's "-f" flag, or having
   Sendmail v8.x's "owner-listname" alias.
   
   (while I'm on the subject) The "-approval" is a Majordomo-ism, and is
   only necessary if you want bounces and approval notices to go to
   different mailboxes. (though you'll have to edit some code in
   majordomo and request-answer if you want to get rid of the -approval
   alias, since it's currently hardwired in)
   
   So, to answer your question, I'd say "no". You don't have to have
   both. You should just have "owner-list".
   
  3.4 - How should I configure resend for Reply-To headers?
  
   Whether you should have a "Reply-To:" or not depends on the charter of
   your list and the nature of its users. If the list is a discussion
   list and you generally want replies to go back to the list, you can
   include one. Some people don't like being told what to do, and prefer
   to be able to choose whether to send a private reply or a reply to the
   list just by using the right function on their mail agent. Take note
   that if you do use a "Reply-To:", then some mail agents make it much
   harder for a person on the list to send a private reply. The most
   important reason why Reply-To: to the list is bad is that it can cause
   mail loops if any of the members of your list are running
   fairly-common but broken software which doesn't know what an envelope
   address is. (Many Microsoft products, as well as many other PC-based
   non-SMTP/Internet mail systems which work through an SMTP gateway.)
   
   You should read the following FAQ on why you shouldn't set the
   Reply-To: field. http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
   
   If you are using resend, use the 'reply_to' configuration variable in
   the list .config file.
   
  3.5 - How can I hide lists so they can't be viewed by 'lists'?
  
   That is what advertise and noadvertise are for. These two variables
   take regular expressions that are matched against the from address of
   the sender. A list display follows the rules:
   
    1. If the from address is on the list, it is shown.
    2. If the from address matches a regexp in noadvertise (e.g. /.*/)
       the list is not shown.
    3. If the advertise list is empty, the list is shown unless 2
       applies.
    4. If the advertise list is non-empty, the from address must match an
       address in advertise. Otherwise the list is not shown. Rule 2
       applies, so you could allow all hosts in umb.edu except hosts in
       cs.umb.edu.
       
  3.6 - How can I restrict a list such that only subscribers can send mail to
  the list?
  
   See the restrict_post variable in the config file. Just set it to the
   filename that holds the list of subscribers, which is just simply the
   name of the list. ("restrict-post = listname"). However, there is an
   issue to keep in mind. Majordomo works by filtering the messages
   coming in through the "listname" alias, doing its dirty work, then
   passing the resulting message out to another alias you define like
   "listname-outgoing". If you trust people to not send mail directly to
   the "listname-outgoing" alias, then you'll be fine. If however you're
   not trusting, there are several steps to make sure people don't bypass
   the restrictions of the list.
   
   There are several methods. First you need to change your
   "listname-outgoing" alias such that it is not obvious. (That means
   don't use something easy to guess like "-outgoing" or "-list"). Next,
   you need to make it such that people can't find out what your
   -outgoing alias is.
   
   You can use the "@filename" directive of resend. Put the all the
   normal command-line options of resend into a file readable only by the
   majordomo user/group. Then the the alias for resend just is
   ".../resend @/path/to/filename". This will make it such that you can't
   find out the -outgoing address by connecting to your mailer and doing
   an EXPN or VRFY. The "@filename" directive seems to have fallen into
   undocumentation for some reason. This should be fixed in future
   releases. This doesn't prevent a user reading the local /etc/aliases
   file (if they can), however.
   
   Another approach is to simply disable EXPN or VRFY altogether. See the
   documentation for your mailer on how to do this. However this also
   doesn't prevent a local user reading of the aliases file. This isn't
   generally a problem if your mail server is restricted to staff only
   users.
   
   Sendmail 8.x will unfortunately log your -outgoing alias in the
   "Received:" lines. To prevent this you need to specify more than one
   address for the list name argument to resend. (for example
   "mylist:|"/usr/local/lib/majordomo/wrapper resend -h foo.org -l mylist
   mylist-seekrit,nobody"" where nobody is an alias for /dev/null) For
   Sendmail 8.x you must not define an alias 'owner-mylist-seekrit' to be
   something like 'owner-mylist,' (with the commma). Otherwise sendmail
   will set the envelope address of outgoing mail to contain your secret
   outgoing alias. Again if you're using the @filename directive, the
   entire command line is simply put into the specified file (starting
   with "-h foo.org ...".
   
   Here's another creative idea from matt@primefactor.com (Matt Perry):
   
   Sendmail allows you to rewrite incoming and outgoing addresses. The
   one that handles incoming is virtualusertable.text. For a list called
   test with the test-outgoing alias, I put the following into my
   virtualusertable.text file and remade the db with the appropriate
   command:
   
test-outgoing@mydomain.com      error:nouser User unknown

   Sendmail can still get to the alias and expand it into the lsit of
   recipients. However, any mail that appears at port 25 marked for
   test-outgoing@mydomain.com will bounce back with "User unknown"
   
   Finally it should be noted that it is impossible with any of these
   methods above to prevent people from forging mail as someone who is
   subscribed to the list, and sending to the list that way. Of course a
   spammer can also subscribe to the list legitimately and then send
   spam. The restrict_post option blocks the vast majority of problems,
   hoever.
   
  3.7 - Can I have the list owner or approval person be changeable without
  intervention from the Majordomo owner?
  
   Sure! Just make owner-listname and/or listname-approval be another
   majordomo list. (probably hidden, for simplicity's sake)
   
  3.8 - What are all these different passwords?
  
   Think of three separate passwords:
    1. A master password that can be used by both resend and majordomo
       contained in [listname].passwd. To be used by the master list
       manager when using writeconfig commands etc. This allows someone
       who handles a number of mailing lists all using the same password.
       This is also a "backup password" in case the .config file gets
       corrupted.
    2. A password for the manager of this one list. The admin_passwd can
       be used by subsidiary majordomo list maintainers.
    3. A password for those concerned with the list content
       (approve_passwd)
       
   This way the administration and moderation functions can be split. The
   original reason for maintaining [listname].passwd was to allow a new
   config file to be put in if the config file was trashed and the
   admin_password was obliterated, and may still be useful to allow a
   single password to be used for admin functions by the majordomo admin
   or some other "superadmin".
   
   Note that the admin passwd in the config file is not a file name, but
   the password itself. This is the only way that the list-maintainer
   could change the password since they wouldn't have access to the file.
   
  3.9 - How do I tell majordomo to handle "get"-ing of binary files?
  
   Majordomo is not designed to be a general-purpose file-by-mail system.
   If you want to do anything more than trivial "get"-ing of text files
   (archives, etc) than you should get and install ftpmail. Majordomo has
   hooks to allow transparent access to files via ftpmail (see
   majordomo.cf). See the beginning of this FAQ for where to get ftpmail.
   
  3.10 - How do I set up a moderated list? How do I approve messages?
  
   First, you need to tell Majordomo that the list is moderated. In the
   configuration file for the list, you set "moderate = yes". Do not try
   to use the now-deprecated "-A" option to resend. In fact you shouldn't
   be using ANY options to resend except "-h" and "-l", since all the
   others are handled in the config file.
   
   Any mail which is not "approved", gets bounced with "Approval
   required". If the moderator wishes to approve the message for the
   list, then you need to tag the message as "approved" and send it to
   the list. The "approve" script which comes with Majordomo does this
   for you. If you don't have access to "approve" (e.g. you're not on a
   UNIX system with Perl), you have to do it by hand. The easiest way is
   to forward the original message to the list, add the line "Approved:
   approval-password" to the very first line of the body, and then the
   entire contents of the original message. (meaning there should not be
   a blank line before and after the "Approved:" line.). Don't forget to
   edit out the headers which were added by the bounce process.
   
   For example:
   
To: your-list@example.com
Subject: doesn't matter

Approved: your-approval-password
Received: by some.site.org....
Received: by another.site.org....
From: joe@another.com (Joe User)
Subject: this list is great!
To: your-list@example.com

Hey, this list is great, and the moderator sure is sexy!

Joe

   It's also possible, if your mailer allows it, to approve a message
   another way by just inserting an Approved: header in the original body
   and passing the original message on without adding your own header.
   This is in a sense "forging" mail, so many mailers either won't allow
   it or will insert some sort of authentication warning. This form is
   used most often by moderators when they send mail to the list and
   don't want to go and approve their own message again. Here's an
   example:

To: your-list@example.com
Approved: your-approval-password
Subject: Thanks!

I like this list too, but sorry, I'm married!  :-)

-- your moderator

   Note that this requires a mail-user-agent (MUA) that allows one to add
   headers to a message. If your MUA doesn't let you do this, you'll need
   to use the first method.
   
   Note that in either case the "Approved:" line will be stripped out by
   Majordomo before it gets sent to the list, so the list members won't
   see your list password.
   
  3.11 - How do I set up a digested version of a list?
  
   [ Modified from explanation given by jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M.
   Bresler)]
     * Create aliases for the mailing list and the digest. See section
       2.2 of the README for an example.
     * create an alias for the majordom(o) user, so that his cron
       generated mail comes to me, rather than just piling up in
       /usr/local/mail/majordom.
     * create the list's and the digest's files, (widget, widget-digest,
       widget.config, widget-digest.config, etc.). Edit the
       widget-digest.config file and make sure all the digest options are
       set to your tastes.
     * create the digest directory and archive directory. See FAQ section
       2 on how to set permissions on all majordomo files and
       directories. You must have archives if you have digests so the
       digester can make the digest. You can purge the archive after the
       digest is generated.
     * Add yourself to both the mailing list and its digest so you can
       monitor what happens...at least for a while (not a bad idea to
       create a dummy user, and subscribe him to both the mailing list
       and its digest. This preserves a record of messages for debugging.
       Don't forget to remove this account and unsubscribe it after
       debugging.)
     * Optionally you may use cron to send a mkdigest to push out a
       digest at set intervals regardless of the number of queued
       messages. See the question Why aren't my digests going out?".
       
  3.12 - How do I setup virtual majordomo domains?
  
   [From Alan Millar, et. al.]
   Set up a majordomo.cf file for each virtual domain, defining $whereami
   as appropriate. Use your mailer's virtual domain stuff to get to it,
   making an alias for it if necessary.
   
   For sendmail, be sure to check out
   http://www.sendmail.org/virtual-hosting.html first.
   
   Alias entry:
   
  majordomo-domain2: |/your/wrapper majordomo -C /your/domain2.cf

   Virtual domain stuff (in your virtusertable):
   
  majordomo@domain2         majordomo-domain2
  majordomo-owner@domain2   whoever

   I use the sendmail virtual domain examples right off the Sendmail FAQ.
   Works for me.
   
   You'll need to modify request-answer slightly if you want the virtual
   host to be used there in replies. Look for:

From: $list-request

   in the source and change it to:
From: $list-request\@$whereami

   Don't forget to use the -C option to request-answer for your virutal
   aliases.
   
   Check out http://o2.towery.com/~ernestm/admin/majordomo/majorvirt.html
   also for good instructions on configuring virtual domains with
   Majordomo.
   
  3.13 - How can I stop people from using my mailing list to spam my
  subscribers?
  
   [From mcr@solidum.com (Michael Richardson) ]
   There are two approaches to solving spam. They are complementary.
   
   The most general solution is to make sure that your list host will not
   accept spam. See http://spam.abuse.net/ for extensive recipies on
   this.
   
   The majordomo specific way is to use the "restrict_post" mechanism to
   disallow posts from addresses that are not on the list. Please see
   section 3.6 for some of the pitfalls of using restrict_post. They all
   apply. My experience is that spammers have not yet learnt about the
   "-outgoing" alias, and the techniques in section 3.6 would apply when
   they do.
   
   The major objection to using restrict_post to deflect spam is that it
   may deflect posts from legitimate people -- people who've subscribed
   with one address but are posting from another address. It may also
   restrict cross-posts from other lists, or from people who read the
   list via news.
   
   The solution to the above objections is twofold:
    1. the moderator must forward legitimate posts. This can be a pain,
       but it does work.
    2. the restrict_post header can be extended.
       
   The typical way to do #2 is to set restrict_post to:
mylist:mylist-nomail

   Then, create a configuration file and password for "mylist-nomail",
   but DO NOT create any aliases. (If you use something like
   mj_build_aliases, then don't set the owner)
   
   The moderator, or subscribers may then subscribe themselves to this
   second list. Subscribers to the -nomail list will then be allowed to
   post to the first list, but won't receive duplicate copies of the
   first list.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
Section 4: Mailer and list admininistration problems

  4.1 - Address with blanks are being treated separately
  
   If a subscriber to the list is
   John Doe < jdoe@node.com>
   
   it gets treated these as the three addresses:
   John
   Doe
   < jdoe@node.com>
   
   [From Alan Millar]
   Majordomo does not treat these as three addresses. Apparently your
   mailer does.
   
   Remember that all Majordomo does is add and remove addresses from a
   list. Majordomo does not interpret the contents of the list for
   message distribution; the system mailer (such as sendmail) does.
   
   I'm using SMail3 instead of sendmail, and it has an alternative (read
   "stupid") view of how mixed angle-bracketed and non-angle-bracketed
   addresses should be interpreted. I found that putting a comma at the
   end of each line was effective to fix the problem, and I got to keep
   my comments. So I patched Majordomo to add the comma at the end of
   each address it writes to the list file.
   
   You can also change to "strip = yes" in the config file so that none
   of the addresses are angle-bracketed.
   
  4.2 - Why aren't my digests going out?
  
   [from John Rouillard]

  echo mkdigest [digest-name] [digest-password] | mail majordomo@...

   This will force a digest to be created. Or you can set the max size in
   the digest list config file down low, and force automatic generation.
   
  4.3 - Why do I get duplicate mail sent to the list?
  
   If you're running MMDF, read on: [From Gunther Anderson]
   Well, I can tell you what happened to me recently. We use MMDF here,
   which certainly colors the picture a little. What was happening here
   was that MMDF was verifying the validity of the whole mailing list
   before returning from the Submit call. The thing calling the Submit
   would time out and close, but the Submit itself would still be running
   somewhere. The calling routine would believe that the message had
   failed in its delivery, but the Submit would eventually succeed. The
   calling process would try again some time later. This, of course, is
   bad. The larger the list got, the more addresses there were to verify
   (verification was really just a DNS search on the target machine
   name), the more likely, under load, that the message would duplicate.
   We finally got so large, with so many international addresses (which
   seem to timeout on DNS queries much more ofen than US addresses) that
   we were always duplicating. Infinitely (until I killed the original
   submitter).
   
   The solution for us was MMDF-specific. We used a different channel for
   submission and delivery, one which deliberately doesn't verify the
   addresses before accepting a job. We used the list-processor channel,
   and only had to check that the listname-request name was set properly,
   because list-processor insists on making listname-request the envelope
   "From " header name.
   
   If you're running Sendmail, this is more rare. There have been
   unconfirmed reports that on some systems having the queue process
   interval set too short can cause problems, even though sendmail is
   supposed to handle this. Workarounds are to increase your queue
   process interval (-q flag), or decrease the interval between queue
   checkpoints (OC flag in sendmail.cf).
   
   There have been many reports from Linux users complaining about
   duplicate mail. The problem seems to be that flock() under Linux is
   broken. This may be fixed in a future release, but for now in
   sendmail's conf.h in the #ifdef __linux__ section add a line #define
   HASFLOCK 0. There are also reports that some versions of the libc have
   problems, and that linking with the libresolv.a from a recent BIND
   version will work around the problem.
   [ Please let me know if you have any more information --ed ]
   
  4.4 - How do I gate my list to and/or from a newsgroup?
  
   The easiest method is to use a program called newsgate. You can find
   it at ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/inn/contrib/. Installation instructions
   are straightforward, it provides sample entires for your newsfeeds/sys
   file and aliases entries. The newsgate package includes news2mail and
   mail2news.
   
  4.5 - How can I improve Majordomo's performance?
  
    Mail to list throughput
    
   Majordomo does very little except pass each message to the list
   through 'resend', and then pass it on to your mailer for distribution.
   Improving your mailer is the first step to improving speed of delivery
   of mail to the list. Upgrading your sendmail to version 8.x will
   improve things greatly, as this version has a lot of enhancements
   which use connections more efficiently. For most lists, this is
   enough. Majordomo itself doesn't use very much in the way of resources
   except perhaps memory. Adding more memory will help if your machine
   does a lot of paging during mail delivery. Using other mailers instead
   of sendmail like ZMailer has met with varying success. Exim can also
   be used (see http://www.exim.org/). qmail has been used with
   majordomo, and performance with either Exim or qmail I'm told
   generally will well exceed that of sendmail. At least qmail also is
   written in a far more secure way than sendmail (some would say
   paranoid). See http://www.qmail.org. The qmail site includes at least
   one way to get majordomo to work with qmail. Note that it is possible
   to get majordomo working under qmail without using the 'wrapper',
   which is a nice idea. Some majordomo-under-qmail solutions just
   involve qmail's sendmail emulation feature. For more info, see the
   Using Majordomo with qmail FAQ, written by Russ Allbery.
   
   If you are using exim (http://www.exim.org/) instead of sendmail there
   are more things you can do. Instead of concealing the -outgoing
   addresses, it is possible to configure exim so that those addresses
   are only usable by the local majordomo user. A description of how to
   do that can be found at http://www.netmaster.ca/exim/majordomo.html as
   well as other information about configuring majordomo with exim.
   
   If your lists are very large you may try installing bulk_mailer, by
   Keith Moore. It pre-sorts the list into chunks grouped by site, and
   passes the resulting chunks off to individual sendmail processes for
   delivery (see note next paragraph). Get it from
   ftp://cs.utk.edu/pub/moore/bulk_mailer/. It installs simply by
   replacing your usual -outgoing alias with (line wrapped for clarity):

sample-outgoing: |"/path/to/bulk_mailer owner-sample@your.site
    /path/to/lists/sample"

   bulk_mailer has reportedly resulted in dramatic speedups in delivery
   times, on the order of several times faster. Note this works just as
   well on digested lists as well as normal lists. bulk_mailer did have
   one problem. Until version 1.3 it didn't understand parenthesized
   comments in addresses, resulting in incorrect sorting and reduced
   performance. Your list must be configured with strip=yes in the
   configuration file if you don't upgrade to 1.3.
   
   TLB is another package which is like bulk_mailer, but has other
   features. You can get it from ftp://ftp.hpc.uh.edu/pub/tlb/. The
   advantage of TLB is its greater configuration flexibility, and also
   the fact that it's possible with TLB to eliminate the -outgoing
   address, making configuration easier and lists more secure.
   
   The restrict_post list option with large lists can cause a significant
   slowdown in mail delivery, since resend has to do a sequential search
   through the subscription list for each mail sent to the list (to
   verify that the sender is subscribed to the list). Think twice about
   using this option with very large lists.
   
    Majordomo command processing
    
   Most of the improvements in this are are experimental and not widely
   available or not yet completed but scheduled for future releases. Some
   areas include: improvements in shlock.pl to use exponential backoffs
   to reduce contention and starvation of locks, using some sort of
   dbz-style database for subscription lists to speed up subscribe and
   unsubscribe commands, and changes in the configuration file system to
   allow faster parsing and faster execution of certain commands such as
   "lists". If you are interested in working on improvements in this
   area, join the majordomo-workers list mentioned above. If you make any
   specific patches or additions available, please let me know so I can
   add references to it here.
   
  4.6 - How can I handle X.400 addresses?
  
   Majordomo by default treats addresses starting with "/" as "hostile",
   and won't let people subscribe. This is to prevent someone from
   subscribing a majordomo-owned filename to the list, and being able to
   write by sending mail to the list. Unfortunately, all X.400 addresses
   begin with a "/". See the $no_x400at and $no_true_x400 variables and
   the associated comments in the majordomo.cf. There is a reported bug
   in 1.94 - you may need to change both tests for these variables in
   majordomo.pl to put "main'" before them. Like this:

        if (!$main'no_x400at) {


        if (!$main'no_true_x400) {

   This is fixed in Majordomo 1.94.1 and higher.
   
  4.7 - Why is the Subject of my messages missing?
  
   [from Dave Wolfe]
   But it's not. Oh, you probably mean "Why is the subject line of
   messages to my moderated list blank?" Because you didn't include any
   headers after the Approved: header in the body of the messages. Or you
   deleted them when you approved the bounced messages.
   
   When resend finds an Approved: header in the first line of the body,
   it throws away all the headers it's collected for the message and
   looks for more headers following the Approved: header (which is the
   format of a bounced message). So if you put the Approved: header in an
   original message (as opposed to a bounced message), you have to also
   fill in some headers to be sent out, such as Subject:, To:, and From:.
   
   See section Question 3.10 on how to approve messages to moderated
   lists.
   
   This is also explained in Doc/list-owner-info, which should be sent to
   all list owners and moderators.
   
  4.8 - I'm getting mail from majordomo with "BOUNCE:" what do I do? How do I
  stop this?
  
   Whenever majordomo encounters mail to the list which it sees a problem
   with, it forwards it to person at the approval address to deal with
   manually. There are lots of reasons Majordomo does this. Majordomo
   will tell you why in the Subject of the message. Here's a list of the
   most common bounce reasons:
   
   An "Admin request" bounce means that the list is configured to filter
   out what it thinks are "administrivia" messages, and it thought that
   message was one. These are messages such as "subscribe" or
   "unsubscribe" or "help", which get sent to the list instead of
   majordomo. Lists generally have this turned on by default. If you
   don't like it, set "administrivia=no" in the list config file. If that
   doesn't work, check your aliases to make sure the "-s" option to
   resend isn't being used on that list.
   
   An "Approval required" bounce means that the list is moderated, and
   the message needs to be approved. (see section 3.10 of this FAQ)
   
   A "Message too long" bounce means that the message was longer than the
   "maxlength" setting in the list config file.
   
   If you get any of these bounces messages and you think the mail is OK
   to send to the list, you'll need to approve it. See the file
   Doc/list-owner-info on the correct procedure(s) for approving mail
   with Majordomo. It's also covered in section 3.10 of this FAQ.
   
  4.9 - My list configuration doesn't seem to be working.
  
   If you changed your list configuration and the list doesn't seem to be
   behaving any differently, make sure that the list is being sent
   through "resend". See the installation documentation and section 3.1
   of this FAQ on how to set up the aliases for the list correctly to
   pipe mail through "resend".
   
   Other things to check would be that the arguments to "resend" are only
   "-h", and "-l" (and perhaps "-C" if you use virtual domains). resend
   used to be configured with other command line flags to do things such
   as have moderated lists. However these flags override any config file
   settings, so remove them if they are present. All configuration should
   be done now through the config file.
   
  4.10 - How do I set it up so that the originator of a message doesn't get a
  copy of his/her own message back?
  
   You can't. Sorry. The "metoo" setting in sendmail has no effect after
   a message is piped through an external program. Unless you're willing
   to give up piping messages through "resend", there's no way to stop
   this.
   
  4.11 - With Smail or Exim, users subscribing to a list sometimes get mail
  sent before they subscribed
  
   [from Lazlo Nibble and Philip Hazel]
   This is due to the way Smail and Exim deliver mail. With sendmail, it
   expands its delivery list when the mail first arrives. If the list
   gets changed, the message will still get delivered to the original
   recipient list, since the original list is never referred to again. As
   sendmail delivers mail, it removes addresses from its expanded list as
   they get delivered.
   
   However Smail and Exim don't expand the list when the message is first
   queued. Instead as they go through the queue of pending messages to
   deliver, and maintain state on what addresses they have successfully
   delivered mail to and compare that with the current list contents. As
   long as the message is queued waiting for one or more addresses in the
   list, it will get sent to any new recipients whenever the queue gets
   processed next. This is rather unexpected for those used to sendmail's
   behavior.
   
   The advantage of smail and exim's approach is that if an address in
   your list is unreachable (or has a bad .forward file), you can change
   the list contents (or the .forward file) and the message will be
   delivered to the new address when the queue next gets processed. It
   won't deliver to the old, bad address.
   
   There really isn't an easy solution to this, but it's really not a
   serious problem.
   
  4.12 - Majordomo doesn't seem to work with sendmail 8.9
  
   Several people have reported that sendmail 8.9 apparently drops mail
   from majordomo lists.
   
   The new security features of sendmail don't allow :include:
   directories to be group writeable. Unfortunately, by default these
   directories are group writeable with Majordomo.
   
   The solution appears to be to add:
   
O DontBlameSendmail=groupwritabledirpathsafe

   in your sendmail.cf and restart sendmail. This path is the path to the
   majordomo lists directory.
   
   Another method which also works is to remove the group-write bit on
   the lists directory. If majordomo is working correctly having group
   write permission is not necessary. However, some people find it
   convenient to have group-write access so users can be put in the
   majordomo group and not need root access all the time to work on
   majordomo.


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 04:17:35 1998
Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-980720-1) id CAA16271; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:47:36 -0700 (PDT)
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	by sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id DAA15761;
	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 03:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Message-Id: <199809181000.DAA15761@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: creating new lists via email.
To: merlin@A470.demon.co.uk (Darren Wyn Rees)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 03:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: michaeli@junction.net, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <19980916161805.A6026@A470.demon.co.uk> from "Darren Wyn Rees" at Sep 16, 98 04:18:05 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
Content-Type: text
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Precedence: bulk

Darren Wyn Rees said:
> On Tue, Sep 15, 1998 at 11:45:58PM -0700, Michael Illingby wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible to create new lists using majordomo-1.94.4 via an email? 
> 
> Yes.  From the man page for Mj it says, mail a message to Majordomo with
>        "newconfig list password

Bzzzt. Wrong answer. Were that true, Majordomo servers around the
globe would be constantly hijacked by spammers and others looking
for a "free ride".

"newconfig" simply updates an already existing config and compares
passwords before acting. If a "new" list doesn't exist, there is no
password to compare against! A list that doesn't exist yet is not a
valid list. The server owner must create the initial files first
before they can be manipulated via mail.

> There is a shell script called 'createlist' (dated circa '94) lurking
> in the list archives at greatcircle.com (for this list).

Besides, if it were possible to create via mail, why would one need
'createlist' or any of the half-dozen other solutions contained in
the archives for list creation??

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 04:34:50 1998
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Message-ID: <360215F5.20FF15C3@online.edvg.co.at>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:12:37 +0200
From: n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at (Niels Hansa)
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CC: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM (majordomo greatcircle.com)
Subject: Re: What is going on with majordomo???
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Stephen Labedz wrote:
> 
> I am getting this message in the majordomo owners mail:
> MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_majordomo)!!
> Can't open /usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/<listname>: File exists
> 
> All of the permissions are set correctly so it can write to it.
> 
> When a person tries to unsubscribe they get this reply from majordomo:
> unsubscribe <listname> sl@nashbar.com
> >>> Sorry, an error has occurred while processing your request
> >>> The caretaker of Majordomo ( majordomo-owner@domain.com ) has been
> notified
> >>> of the problem.

This behavior points to permission trouble. Be sure, that the right user
and group id have the permission to handle the lists directory and the
lists file. Permissions usually have to be set to 664 at least.

> And the most confusing error is that either majordomo or sendmail are
> creating new files within the lists directory, such as:
> L.<listname> - a file that has a number in it. It has been growing
> throughout the day. When I looked this morning it was at 745, it is
> currently at 1314. I did not create this file!
> 
> <listname.new> - This file appeared soon after the mailing was started. It
> contains names from the <listname> file, and is growing throughout the day.
> This morning it was at 2,450 names, and now is at 10,379.

I dont know anything about this l.listname file. The listname.new is an
"internal" majordomo file.
 
> Here is my aliase config:
> <listname>: "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend
> @/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/resend_file"
> <listname-outgoing>: "|/usr/local/bin/bulk_mailer
> owner-<listname>@domain.com /usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/<listname>"
> owner-<listname>: listowner,
> <listname>-owner: listowner
> <listname>-request: "|/usr/local/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo -l
> <listname>"
> <listname>-approval: listowner
> 

A normal list config of one of my lists is:

test:          "|/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l test
test-list"
test-list:     :include:/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test
owner-test:     listadm
test-owner:    listadm
test-request:  "|/home/majordomo/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper request-answer
test"
test-approval: listadm

I am not sure that te config for listname-outgoing is correct, but i
dont run a bulk mailer. The listname config uses "wrapper resend" and
lists are usually in /lists subdirectoryof the majordomo directory. The
used mailer is configured within the majordomo.cf file. Therefor the
mailer doesnt have to be included within the aliases file.
Surely I dont know your configuration, which might explain some of your
configs.

cu,
Niels
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--------------msBBB71F8666F8D7894FA729FA--


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 05:22:37 1998
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Received: from localhost (lawppw@localhost)
	by gsulaw.gsu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA30272;
	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:03:51 -0400
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:03:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: mdmonk <mdmonk@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Bounced Messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980917163928.13274B-100000@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980918080153.29971A-100000@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

You have "administrivia=yes" in the list's configuration, and "ind*x" is
one of the words which triggers the bounce (as is evident from your
Subject header).

Patrick

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, mdmonk wrote:

:A snippet from the headers are as follows:
:-------------------------------------------------------
:Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:29:05 -0500
:From: owner-server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu
:To: owner-server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu
:Subject: BOUNCE server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu:  
:   Admin request of type 
:/^\s*index\s+\S+\s*$/i at line 8


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 05:46:17 1998
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Received: from localhost (lawppw@localhost)
	by gsulaw.gsu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA31048;
	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:28:00 -0400
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:28:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: Michael Behar <michaelb@wired.com>
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: unwanted messages
In-Reply-To: <v03110724b222b59f7eab@[206.221.207.165]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980918082552.29971C-100000@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Michael Behar wrote:

:i use majordomo to run a private list. however, a nonmember continues to
:post to the list. they are not a subscriber, so they don't receive
:postings. but they still post annoying messages, mostly spams, almost
:daily. is there any way to instruct majordomo to not allow them to post to
:the list? a filter or block of sorts?

1.  If this person is posting directly to the "listname-outgoing" alias,
change it to something obscure.  (No, I'm not endorsing security through
obscurity!)

2.  Otherwise, configure your list so that "restrict_post=LISTNAME" which
restricts posting to members of the list.

Patrick


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 07:02:01 1998
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Received: from sam (sam.on-net.net [204.117.190.8])
	by sam.on-net.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA12266;
	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:34:26 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:34:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Warren Killian <warrenk@on-net.net>
X-Sender: warrenk@sam
To: Bill Silvert <bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca>
cc: Majordomo Users <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Learning to use ...
In-Reply-To: <199809171333.KAA26334@ecology.bio.dfo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.980918083210.11761A-100000@sam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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Hi Bill,

I agree.  I'm on several different e-mail lists.  This one is by far the
most "user hostile" that I've ever seen.

Sorry I asked . . .:-) 
Warren Killian
warrenk@on-net.net

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Bill Silvert wrote:

> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:33:49 -0300 (ADT)
> From: Bill Silvert <bill@ecology.bio.dfo.ca>
> To: Majordomo Users <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>
> Subject: Learning to use ...
> 
> Usually I ignore Rich Pieri's snarky postings, but this seemed a bit
> much:
> 
> >There is no difference, conceptually, between learning to drive your car
> >and learning how to use your mail client.
> 
> Wow! If you drive a car badly you can kill people. That is why we have
> driving tests and licensing regulations.
> 
> Could someone explain why some people feel it necessary to flame
> everyone who isn't as smart as themselves? We seem to have an epidemic
> of road rage on the information highway.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Silvert, Habitat Ecology Section, Bedford Institute of Oceanography,
> P. O. Box 1006, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2, Tel. (902)426-1577
> http://www.mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/mesd/he/staff/silvert/silvert.html
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 07:19:38 1998
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Received: by natacha.ambrasoft.lu with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8)
	id <TB35T2B7>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:03:31 +0200
Message-ID: <605957CDA54DD211BF940020AFEF309E6431@natacha.ambrasoft.lu>
From: CARPENTIER Michel <mca@ambrasoft.lu>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Message : MAJORDOMO WARNING (mj_resend)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:03:29 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8)
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi,

I'm running Majordomo 1.94.1 on Linux 2.0.0.
Everything works, but now I received :

MAJORDOMO WARNING (mj_resend)!!

shlock: open('/home/majordom/lists/comite.config.LOCK'): No such file =
or
directory

from the owner of the list (me).

The log says :

Sep 18 15:39:25 myserver resend[176] {comite} WARNING  shlock: o
pen('/home/majordom/lists/comite.config.LOCK'): No such file or =
directory


Somebody can give me more info on that strange message ?
Many thanks;


--Mike,

-----------------------%<----------------------------
Michel Carpentier
Ambrasoft
mca@ambrasoft.lu
Tel : +352 403420 226
ICQ : 6898839 (http://www.icq.com/)
http://www.mygale.org/~mca/

Ne prenez pas la vie trop au s=E9rieux: de toute fa=E7on, vous n'en =
sortirez
pas vivant. -- Elbert Hubbard



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 07:47:12 1998
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	by londo.prescienttech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA22386
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:18:03 -0400
From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: creating new lists via email.
References: <000501bde13d$a95de6c0$7c1c35d1@schroeder.bconnected.net> <19980916161805.A6026@A470.demon.co.uk>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 18 Sep 1998 10:18:03 -0400
In-Reply-To: Darren Wyn Rees's message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:18:05 -0400"
Message-ID: <x7iuilmrms.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
Lines: 28
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Darren Wyn Rees writes:

>> Is it possible to create new lists using majordomo-1.94.4 via an email? 
> Yes.  From the man page for Mj it says, mail a message to Majordomo with

No.  newconfig creates a new configuration file for a list; it does not
create the list.  List creation requires Divine Intervention (that is, root
has to set up the appropriate aliases in the aliases file).  But once a
list has been created, the list owner has full control over it.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / 
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 08:01:36 1998
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Received: by sneezy.osha-no.osha.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8)
	id <S0K2JA7W>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:18:26 -0400
Message-ID: <993F9F38E35DD111AB6100600898345F013444D8@EXCHANGE3.osha-no.osha.gov>
From: "Franseth, Greg" <Greg.Franseth@osha-no.osha.gov>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: ultra-newbie
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:18:10 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8)
Content-Type: text/plain
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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I am sure the following questions will seem simple and unresearched to some
of you I apologize in advance.  Here goes:

For various reasons I have no money and must cobble together computer stuff
where-ever I can.  I was able to put together a pentium computer from spare
parts and a little luck.  A colleague of mine provided a copy of Win95.
Because I share this computer, I cannot partition it to run linux.  My
knowledge of software is quite limited, but I am learning as much and as
fast as I can.  Greg is kind enough to loan me his e-mail while I work on my
system.

I am trying to install majordomo on the system.  I successfully installed
cygwin32.  I also downloaded majordomo 1.94.4, perl 5.005 and egcs.  I got
up to the point in the install for majordomo as described in the
documentation to where I should "make wrapper".  I have searched he archives
and although I'm sure it must be there somewhere, I was unable to find a
discussion of install problems at this level.  Most of the discussions since
I started lurking have dealt with setting up the lists not the install.  the
error I receive is:

cc  -DBIN=\"/usr/test/majordomo1.94.4\"
-DPATH=\"PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb\"
-DHOME=\"HOME=/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.4\" DSHELL=\"SHELL=/bin/sh\"
-DMAJORDOMO_CF=\"MAJORDOMO_CF=/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.cf\" -o
wrapper wrapper.c

make: /bin/sh: Command not found
make: *** [wrapper] Error 127


Since questions at this level of simplicity appear to offend some
listmembers it is acceptable to me if someone (anyone) would like to reply
off-list.  My questions are:

1)  Can someone explain in detail what this means?

2)  What do I do to make the system work right?  Did I install something
incorrectly?

3)  Would someone be willing to make themselves available to me for help
until I get things working?  (I certyainly would try not to abuse such
generosity.)

4)  What else will help this run better on a windows system?

5)  The lpr command doesn't seem to work.  Any ideas?  (I know that's not a
domo question, but it would have saved me a lot of time in typing the
message.  Is there any way to copy form cygwin32 to windows notepad?)

Thanks in advance for any help.  I really would like to learn this and maybe
someday I can move to an all linux system.

Thanks again,

Scott

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 08:11:14 1998
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	by londo.prescienttech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA21916
	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:59:32 -0400
From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Bounced Messages
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980917163928.13274B-100000@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 18 Sep 1998 09:59:32 -0400
In-Reply-To: mdmonk's message of "Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:14:29 -0500 (CDT)"
Message-ID: <x7u325mshn.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
Lines: 28
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Precedence: bulk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

mdmonk  writes:

> Subject: BOUNCE server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu:  
>    Admin request of type 
> /^\s*index\s+\S+\s*$/i at line 8

Look at line 8 of the body of the message.  You have administrivia checking
turned on, and Majordomo is catching what looks like it might be
administrivia.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Caution: Happy Fun Ball may
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / suddenly accelerate to dangerous
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / speeds.
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / 


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 09:57:07 1998
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Christian Dawson writes:

> chmod(33188, "/usr/home/list/majordomo-1.94.3/lists/symphoniestogod.new"):
> Operation not permitted

> Do you have any idea what this means?

It means that Majordomo does not have write permissions in the .../lists
directory, therefore it cannot create the new list file (Mj copies the
current list file and modifies the copy whenever zubscribers are added or
deleted.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Charset: noconv

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oSo+MoZnOu8M7k1B2UtHVyVwcjOnGWln6Gsa55VvRztH8hbLTMvQv+/Rl9RQWQxU
ZrH/PmN94pp0Nu7JLKSXwfM3uqKtKe1xDsICO7rmA0msBTu33WEdtUi8SqXFI++v
g0D2EkEmbkY=
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Warning: pregnant women, the
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / elderly, and children under 10
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / should avoid prolonged exposure to
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / Happy Fun Ball.


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 10:53:19 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:00:28 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Lien-Anh Duong <lduong@po-box.mcgill.ca>, Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Core Dumps with Majordomo
Message-ID: <19980918160028.B9968@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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Lien-Anh Duong wrote:

> I've installed majordomo 1.94.4 and I'm running Perl 5.005_01.  I've
> been able to create lists and sendmail delivers to all the names on the
> list without any problem, but when I send commands to majordomo such as
> who or approve, they are not executed.  Instead there is a core dump
> that is made in the majordomo directory.  Any help would be appreciated.

I think there was a problem with 5.005_01 of perl, try the latest version
(I use 5.005_02 here, don't know if that's the latest) or just use
5.004_04, which worked fine.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 11:04:44 1998
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To: "Michael Illingby" <michaeli@junction.net>
Cc: "majordomo greatcircle.com" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: creating new lists via email.
References: <000501bde13d$a95de6c0$7c1c35d1@schroeder.bconnected.net>
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 18 Sep 1998 12:41:10 -0500
In-Reply-To: "Michael Illingby"'s message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:45:58 -0700"
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>>>>> "MI" == Michael Illingby <michaeli@junction.net> writes:

MI> I am new to the list, and have a question. Is it possible to create new
MI> lists using majordomo-1.94.4 via an email?

Not without lots of hacking.

The development version of Majordomo has the 'createlist' command, which
creates a list.  It currently only suggests sendmail aliases, however; it
doesn't automatically put them in a file.

We discuss the development version on majordomo-workers@greatcircle.com.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 11:23:26 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:33:44 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Michael Behar <michaelb@wired.com>, Majordomo-Users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: unwanted messages
Message-ID: <19980918163344.A11306@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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Michael Behar wrote:

> i use majordomo to run a private list. however, a nonmember continues to
> post to the list. they are not a subscriber, so they don't receive
> postings. but they still post annoying messages, mostly spams, almost
> daily. is there any way to instruct majordomo to not allow them to post to
> the list? a filter or block of sorts?

Check restrict_post and taboo_headers. This is probably explained in the
FAQ or some other docs, please check those before asking other
questions.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 11:53:38 1998
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Reply-To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
From: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
To: "Michael Behar" <michaelb@wired.com>
Cc: "Majordomo Mailing List" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: unwanted messages
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:18:33 +0200
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> i use majordomo to run a private list. however, a nonmember continues to
> post to the list. they are not a subscriber, so they don't receive
> postings. but they still post annoying messages, mostly spams, almost
> daily. is there any way to instruct majordomo to not allow them to post
> to the list? a filter or block of sorts?

  Use the command RESTRICT_POST. Suppose your list is called "MyList" and
  that the list has a digest ("MyList-Digest"):

  restrict_post = mylist:mylist-digest

  Have a nice weekend! :)

/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                                        ICQ 9199591




From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 11:57:22 1998
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	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:51:17 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:51:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Brian T. Huntley" <bth@clarkson.edu>
To: Michael Illingby <michaeli@junction.net>
cc: "majordomo greatcircle.com" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: creating new lists via email.
In-Reply-To: <19980916161805.A6026@A470.demon.co.uk>
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On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Darren Wyn Rees wrote:

// On Tue, Sep 15, 1998 at 11:45:58PM -0700, Michael Illingby wrote:
// 
// > Is it possible to create new lists using majordomo-1.94.4 via an email? 
[SNIP]
// 
// There is a shell script called 'createlist' (dated circa '94) lurking
// in the list archives at greatcircle.com (for this list).   It
// creates a set of list aliases (for Sendmail) etc.  You could modify
// it and use it as a basis for a semi-automated setup.  

I am also working on a scipt that will create all required files,
configure, add members to the new list, and create sendmail aliases.
Anyone with suggestions on other bits of functionality, feel free to drop
me a note.  I don't know when it will be ready, but I'm hoping for
sometime in the next few weeks. (I don't get a chance to work on it very
often...)  The idea is to eventually have a web-based interface for users
to create their own lists with minimal SysAdmin intervention.

Best regards,
Brian

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Brian T. Huntley                                UNIX Systems Programmer | 
| Educational Resources Center, Clarkson University                       |
| Ph/FAX: 315.268-2292/6570                                               |
| bth@clarkson.edu                        	    www.clarkson.edu/~bth |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
  UNIX *is* user friendly.  It's just selective about who its friends are.



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 12:47:54 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98
To: CARPENTIER Michel <mca@ambrasoft.lu>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Message : MAJORDOMO WARNING (mj_resend) 
In-Reply-To: Message from CARPENTIER Michel <mca@ambrasoft.lu> 
   of "Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:03:29 +0200." <605957CDA54DD211BF940020AFEF309E6431@natacha.ambrasoft.lu> 
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:44:56 -0400
From: Dave Barr <barr@cis.ohio-state.edu>
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>I'm running Majordomo 1.94.1 on Linux 2.0.0.
>Everything works, but now I received :
>
>MAJORDOMO WARNING (mj_resend)!!
>
>shlock: open('/home/majordom/lists/comite.config.LOCK'): No such file or=

>directory

does the directory

/home/majordom/lists/

exist?

--Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 13:19:20 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Simeon Nevel <snevel@sonic.net>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: restrict_post parameter
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980918104418.14408A-100000@bolt.sonic.net>
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I'm a bit confused....

If I want to restrit posting to list members for a
mailing list with no digest version, I can simply say:

   restrict_post = listname

My understanding, however that the digest version of
a list is a separate entity with a separate list of
subscribers....

But digest subscribers post to the 
    
    listname@server.com

address NOT the 

    listname-digest@server.com address

*Exactly* how do I set the restrict_post parm in the
config files for both the regular and digest versions
of the list so that everyone subscribed to either
version of the list can post, but no one else can....

A clue would be vastly appreciated!

adTHANKSvance!

Simeon



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 13:34:04 1998
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	id 0zK2dn-0002zx-00; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:40:11 +0100
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:40:11 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Lien-Anh Duong <lduong@po-box.mcgill.ca>, Majordomo-Users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: addendum
Message-ID: <19980918164011.B11306@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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Lien-Anh Duong wrote:

> I forgot to mention I'm sure Sendmail 8.8.7 on a Unix platform.  My
> majordomo 1.94.4 that was installed causes core dumps.  The version of
> perl is 5.005_01.  I can create lists and send mail to a list address
> but no 'who' or 'approve' commands can be executed.

If you follow up to your own post in future, please use the same subject
line so messages will be grouped together. Makes it easier for everyone,
I'm sure you'll agree. (If you just reply to it and it gets a
References: or In-Reply-To: header, that's even better.)

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 14:48:01 1998
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	id 0zK2DW-0002mR-00; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:13:02 +0100
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:13:01 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: mdmonk <mdmonk@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu>,
        majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Bounced Messages
Message-ID: <19980918161301.C9968@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980917163928.13274B-100000@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu>
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mdmonk wrote:

> Subject: BOUNCE server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu:  
>    Admin request of type 
> /^\s*index\s+\S+\s*$/i at line 8

That's fairly clear as to what the problem is. Edit your config or
resend script so that that regex isn't caught, or just manually approve
the message. If, after reading any documentation available, you can't
work out how to do it, then

#ifdef FLAME
  you shouldn't be running a list until you learn
#else
  ask for help here
#endif

You'll have to check the headers to see if FLAME is defined or not
though :-)

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 14:50:45 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:38:52 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Lien-Anh Duong <lduong@po-box.mcgill.ca>
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Core Dumps with Majordomo
In-Reply-To: <3600719F.4D3D39CD@po-box.mcgill.ca>
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On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Lien-Anh Duong wrote:

> I've installed majordomo 1.94.4 and I'm running Perl 5.005_01.  I've

Stick to perl 5.004_004 until 5.005 is stable. Perl does the core dump.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 15:29:07 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:42:27 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: permissions/ownership error.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980915174017.1570E-100000@wopr.iuinc.com>
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On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, tc lewis wrote:

> chown(15001, 15001, "/usr/local/majordomo/lists/illimms.new"): Operation not 
> permitted

Make sure all files and the list directory is owned by the majordomo user
and its group.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 15:47:03 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:36:32 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
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To: Christian Dawson <dawson@mecca.servint.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
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On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Christian Dawson wrote:

> chmod(33188, "/usr/home/list/majordomo-1.94.3/lists/symphoniestogod.new"):
> Operation not permitted

All files must be owned by the majordomo user and its group.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 16:03:12 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:18:15 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: permissions/ownership error.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980918155920.20999N-100000@wopr.iuinc.com>
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On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, tc lewis wrote:

> so i'm asking if i can change my /etc/group to remedy this?
> or do i have to recompile my wrapper program or whatever to use group
> "majordomo" instead of group "daemon" (daemon is the default), or what?

Yes, you can make user majordomo be member of group daemon.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 16:16:32 1998
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From: slevy@channel1.com
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:21:21 -0400
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Subject: Recommendations?
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Hi,

I've been searching for Web-based interface to browse Majordomo archives
that we can install.  I've taken a look at LWGate, but the fact that it
hasn't been updated in three years has made me steer clear of it.  We
already have a web-interface to allow listowners to control their lists -
Majorcool, so we only need the archiving component at this time.
Preferrably something with password protection.

Does anyone have any recommendations?  

Seah
slevy@channel1.com
Channel 1 Communications

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 16:32:34 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:53:17 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Jake Levine <jlevine@bivwood.com>
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: trouble with separate aliases files
In-Reply-To: <35FE905C.8250307B@bivwood.com>
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On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jake Levine wrote:

> "WARNING: Group writable directory /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists
> newaliases: cannot open /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/test.aliases: Group
> writable file
> /etc/aliases: 16 aliases, longest 29 bytes, 208 bytes total
> newaliases: cannot open /usr/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.aliases: Group
> writable file"


Move it to /etc and chown root and chmod 644.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 17:17:14 1998
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	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:37:51 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:37:50 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Lien-Anh Duong <lduong@po-box.mcgill.ca>
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: addendum
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On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Lien-Anh Duong wrote:

> I forgot to mention I'm sure Sendmail 8.8.7 on a Unix platform.  My
> majordomo 1.94.4 that was installed causes core dumps.  The version of
> perl is 5.005_01.  I can create lists and send mail to a list address
> but no 'who' or 'approve' commands can be executed.

Stick to perl 5.004_004 until 5.005 is stable. Majordomo does not cause
the core dump, perl does.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 17:32:51 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:51:50 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Rolando Paez <rpaez@fastel.net>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: unsafe map file ERROR
In-Reply-To: <004c01bde1ab$bdb8bd20$14eaa7cc@apl.rbgroup.com>
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On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Rolando Paez wrote:

> sendmail[578]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(root): hash map "Alias1": unsafe map file
> /usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo: Permission denied
> WARNING: cannot open alias database /usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo
> Cannot create database for alias file
> /usr/local/majordomo/aliases.majordomo:

Move the aliases file to /etc and chown root and chmod 644. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 17:47:48 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:47:51 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: "Bruce L. Rice" <bruce@ink.org>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: aliasing/forwarding loop broken error.
In-Reply-To: <35FFE818.F21FD905@ink.org>
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On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Bruce L. Rice wrote:

>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 550 :include:/export/staff/majordom/lists/test  ... Cannot open
> /export/staff/majordom/lists/test: Group writable
> directory
(...)
> and sendmail version 8.9.0

Sendmail 8.9.x does not like list files or directories being group
writable. Do a chmod 644 on all list files and a chmod 755 on the list
directory. And upgrade sendmail to 8.9.1a to avoid some bugs.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 18:31:08 1998
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Subject: Re: creating new lists via email.
To: bth@clarkson.edu (Brian T. Huntley)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:01:30 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: michaeli@junction.net, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.3.96.980918094601.17194E-100000@queequeg.clarkson.edu> from "Brian T. Huntley" at Sep 18, 98 09:51:17 am
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Brian T. Huntley said:
> 
> The idea is to eventually have a web-based interface for users
> to create their own lists with minimal SysAdmin intervention.

Like MajorCool already does...

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 18:57:35 1998
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To: slevy@channel1.com
Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Recommendations?
References: <3.0.32.19980918162117.0071fe80@pop.channel1.com>
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 18 Sep 1998 20:08:51 -0500
In-Reply-To: slevy@channel1.com's message of "Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:21:21 -0400"
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>>>>> "s" == slevy  <slevy@channel1.com> writes:

s> Hi, I've been searching for Web-based interface to browse Majordomo
s> archives that we can install.

You could try Wilma. which I use to run the archives for majordomo-users
and majordomo-workers.  It's at http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/.

s> Preferrably something with password protection.

If you want to password-protect access to your archives, use the
authentication built in to your web server.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 19:17:16 1998
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	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:44:19 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:44:18 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Jacob Miner <jacob_miner@hp.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: List errors....
In-Reply-To: <000301bde014$05df9b30$2d76020f@ntsrfr.cnd.hp.com>
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On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Jacob Miner wrote:

> Sep 14 07:25:47 myhost.foo.foo.foo majordomo[24575] {Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@them.foo.foo.foo>} ABORT
> mylist@myhost.foo.foo.foo: not replying to MAILER-DAEMON to avoid mail loop.
> 
> 	And this in e-mail...
> 
> MAJORDOMO ABORT (mj_majordomo)!!
> 
> mylist@myhost.foo.foo.foo: not replying to MAILER-DAEMON to avoid mail loop.

Some mailserver is sending a error message to the list. Since it comes
from MAILER-DAEMON majordomo can catch that and avoid sending it to the
list.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 20:28:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:09:53 -0700
To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
From: Jann Linder <jann@jann.com>
Subject: Re: unwanted messages
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
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ps:  i think we should all add the word 'salacious' to the taboo sections
of our lists...  grin!


At 11:18 AM 9/18/98 , you wrote:
>> i use majordomo to run a private list. however, a nonmember continues to
>> post to the list. they are not a subscriber, so they don't receive
>> postings. but they still post annoying messages, mostly spams, almost
>> daily. is there any way to instruct majordomo to not allow them to post
>> to the list? a filter or block of sorts?
>
>  Use the command RESTRICT_POST. Suppose your list is called "MyList" and
>  that the list has a digest ("MyList-Digest"):
>
>  restrict_post = mylist:mylist-digest
>
>  Have a nice weekend! :)
>
>/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                                        ICQ 9199591
>
>
>

Jann Linder
Web Developer
San Francisco

http://www.jann.com/


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 18 21:00:55 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:43:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: slevy@channel1.com
cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980918162117.0071fe80@pop.channel1.com>
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I use MHonArc, which you'll find at

http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/mhonarc.html

with list aliases which send the list email to a MHonArc directory.

I have the MHonArc script in my majordomo directory, and have a MHonArc
subdirectory in which the archives are stored, and so the aliases look
like this:

test: "|/usr/local/majordomo/wrapper resend 
                -l test 
                -h gsulaw.gsu.edu
                test-outgoing"
owner-test: pwiseman@gsu.edu,
test-request: "|/usr/local/majordomo/wrapper majordomo -l test"
test-approval: owner-test
owner-test-outgoing: owner-test
owner-test-request: owner-test
test-outgoing::include:/usr/local/majordomo/lists/test, test-mhonarc
test-mhonarc: "|/usr/local/majordomo/wrapper mhonarc -add -quiet -outdir /usr/local/majordomo/MHonArc/test"
owner-test-mhonarc: owner-test

Patrick


From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 19 00:28:44 1998
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Message-Id: <m0zKHU7-00042wC@planet>
From: alvin@planet.fef.com (Alvin Oga)
Subject: mj mailing list error checker
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:31:11 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi all...

Just was a little bored/unproductive a day ago...
and wrote a quickie perl script to double check
the users majordomo mailing list setup files:

- check for permission problems on mailing lists
- check ownerships of mail list files
- create "entries" to be appended to /etc/aliases

Please take a look at it and see if finds anything
that needs fixing or if my script needs fixing...
and yup...it probably needs to be maintained
and/or expanded to other mailing lists and various
permutations and tests..

        http://www.Linux-Consulting.com/Majordomo

please let me know...

thanx
alvin

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 19 01:02:01 1998
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Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:47:50 +0800
From: LUK ShunTim <cestluk@polyu.edu.hk>
Organization: Department of Civil and Structural Engineering, Hong Kong Polytechnic 
 University 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I)
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To: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
CC: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: permissions/ownership error.
References: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809182041130.12926-100000@atle>
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Mats Dufberg wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, tc lewis wrote:
> 
> > chown(15001, 15001, "/usr/local/majordomo/lists/illimms.new"): Operation not
> > permitted
> 
> Make sure all files and the list directory is owned by the majordomo user
> and its group.
> 
First the question: Is it *necessary* for the list owner to be the owner
of majordomo? Will being in the same group as majordomo (with write
privilege, of course) be sufficient?  

Below is my little experience with majordomo (version 1.94.4), still
not  working :(. under Debian/GNU Linux. Debian has a majordomo package
but it is installed in a slightly different way. The scripts files are
owned by root:root (in /usr/lib/majordomo) and the lists directory tree
is own by majordom:majordom in some place under /var. My reading of the
documentation was that the list owner need only belong to the majordomo
group with write privilege and she/he will be able to handle all list
administration. Setting up the new list as an ordinary user, subscribing
and posting messages presents no permission problem. The trouble occurs
when one tried to unsubscribe. 

Another information (which may not be relevant): the MTA is smail and
not sendmail but apparently I get all aliases working.

One little request: Can anyone explain more about the function of the
wrapper?

Cheers,
ST  
--

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 19 04:18:09 1998
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Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:05:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: LUK ShunTim <cestluk@polyu.edu.hk>
cc: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: permissions/ownership error.
In-Reply-To: <360361A6.A993B04D@polyu.edu.hk>
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On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, LUK ShunTim wrote:

> First the question: Is it *necessary* for the list owner to be the owner
> of majordomo? Will being in the same group as majordomo (with write
> privilege, of course) be sufficient?  

Yes, all files, except wrapper, have to be owned by the majordomo user,
that is the user compiled into wrapper. No, the person in charge of a list
or the majordomo installation should not be the same as the majordomo
user.

> Below is my little experience with majordomo (version 1.94.4), still
> not  working :(. under Debian/GNU Linux. Debian has a majordomo package
> but it is installed in a slightly different way. 

You can try to install the standard Majordomo distribution instead.

> One little request: Can anyone explain more about the function of the
> wrapper?

The wrapper is a small C program which is usually onwed by root, and it is
set to SUID, which means that the process running wrapper will be owned by
root independently who started it. Wrapper will do two things, firstly,
change owner and group of running process to majordomos user and group,
and secondly, start the resend or majordomo script. The function is to
make sure that all files will have correct owner and permission for each
process running majordomo/resend.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 19 10:50:51 1998
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Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:39:03 -0700 (MST)
From: "Jay V." <infoteq@dracon.net>
Reply-To: "Jay V." <infoteq@dracon.net>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Strange Error; Used to work
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980918060427.23379A-100000@dracon.net>
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Majordomo: 	v1.94.4
Perl:		v5.004_04
Sendmail:	v8.9.0
OS:		Linux, installed from Slackware v3.5

Majordomo itself (along with Perl) came preinstalled with
Slackware v3.5. For some reason when I try to utilize the
mailing lists I get the following message to the owner box:

**********
The original message was received at Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:32:50 -0700
from daemon@localhost
 
   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
dstar-l-list
:include:/var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l
    (expanded from: dstar-l-list)
 
   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 :include:/var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l... Cannot open
/var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l: Group writable directory
554 dstar-l-list... aliasing/forwarding loop broken
**********


Directory/File Permissions are set up like so:

**********
drwxrwx---   7 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 18 06:04 /var/lib/majordomo/ 
drwxrwx---   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 18 05:54 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/
-rw-rw----   1 majordom daemon       1684 Sep 18 04:47 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l
**********

Which is of course required for it all to work.

The first two lines of aliases look like this:

**********
dstar-l:                "|/var/lib/majordomo/wrapper resend -l dstar-l dstar-l-list"
dstar-l-list:           :include:/var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l
**********

I looked in the sendmail.cf and there is an option that mentions
include files and group writeable directories, but it appears to
be remarked out with a #.

The same aliases file along with the dstar-l.config worked fine with
an older Linux setup:

Majordomo:	v1.94
Perl:		v5.003
Sendmail:	v8.7.5
OS:		Linux installed from Slackware v3.2

So my question is...what's wrong? I'm completely baffled.

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Dragons' Star    :    dracon.net 4242    :    198.102.68.193 4242
			     --------
		 "May the Dragons guide your path."
------------------------------------------------------------------








From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 19 22:14:21 1998
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Message-Id: <199809200505.WAA31411@sub.sonic.net>
X-envelope-info: <snevel@sonic.net>
From: "Simeon Nevel" <snevel@sonic.net>
Organization: Just Me, Inc.
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:06:52 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Subject: Re: Recommendations?
Reply-to: snevel@sonic.net
In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19980918162117.0071fe80@pop.channel1.com>
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On 18 Sep 98, at 16:21, slevy@channel1.com wrote:

> I've been searching for Web-based interface to browse Majordomo archives
> that we can install.  [...]
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations?  

I use MHonArc to archive a couple of my lists and MarcSearc as a 
search engine.

MHonArc is *extremely* flexible in specifying the layout of message 
and index pages.  MarcSearch is a search engine written specifically 
for MHonArc archives.

If you'd like to see examples, check-out the links from:

    http://www.sonic.net/~snevel/etherbun/index.html

and

    http://www.sonic.net/~snevel/babl/babl.html\

Simeon

--
snevel@sonic.net =-=-=-=-=-= A rabbit is just an angel with big ears
Send mail with Subject: send index to get a listing of files available from
my e-mail robot.  <*>

From majordomo-users-owner  Sat Sep 19 23:29:29 1998
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	Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:22:51 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 07:22:49 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: "Jay V." <infoteq@dracon.net>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Strange Error; Used to work
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980918060427.23379A-100000@dracon.net>
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On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Jay V. wrote:

>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 550 :include:/var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l... Cannot open
> /var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l: Group writable directory
> 554 dstar-l-list... aliasing/forwarding loop broken
> **********
> 
> 
> Directory/File Permissions are set up like so:
> 
> **********
> drwxrwx---   7 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 18 06:04 /var/lib/majordomo/ 
> drwxrwx---   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 18 05:54 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/


Sendmail 8.9.x is more picky about permissions. Do 
  chmod 750 /var/lib/majordomo/
  chmod 750 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/
and it will probably work.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 03:28:18 1998
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	for majordomo-users@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:16:32 +0000
Message-ID: <3604E366.60AFCD29@cape.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:13:42 +0000
From: Tony Gordon Smith <tony@cape.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: tony@geckoware.com
Organization: Gecko Software Limited
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Newbie Ques: Majordomo v1.9.4, sendmail 8.9.1, Solaris 2.5.1; NOQUEUE,SYSERR
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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>

Hi,I completed an installation of Majordomo 1.9.4,  sendmail
8.9.1 on Solaris 2.5.1

Majordomo is processing requests OK, alaises are OK, but
there is a clash with sendmail somewhere.
The following is an extract from the log file
/var/log/notice, which shows the sequence when a list
member posts to a list. The mail is received ok, but there
is a problem when majordomo tries to
send to list through resend.

> Sep 13 17:36:36 spectrum sendmail[18389]: RAA18389: from=, size=858, class=0, pri=30858, nrcpts=1, msgid=<35FC0172.116F5730@cape.demon.co.uk>, proto=ESMTP, relay=post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]
> Sep 13 17:36:37 spectrum sendmail[18390]: RAA18390: clone RAA18389, owner=owner-powerman
> Sep 13 17:36:38 spectrum sendmail[18393]: NOQUEUE: Authentication-Warning: spectrum.demo-net.geckoware.com: Processed from queue mqueue
> Sep 13 17:36:38 spectrum sendmail[18393]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(majordom): cannot chdir(mqueue): No such file or directory
> Sep 13 17:36:38 spectrum sendmail[18394]: NOQUEUE: Authentication-Warning: spectrum.demo-net.geckoware.com: Processed from queue mqueue
> Sep 13 17:36:38 spectrum sendmail[18394]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(majordom): cannot chdir(mqueue): No such file or directory
> Sep 13 17:36:38 spectrum sendmail[18390]: RAA18390: to="|/opt/majordomo/wrapper resend -l powerman powerman-list", delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
>

I've been through the FAQs, and looked at the mail archive
for this list. I see that there were some discussions on
sendmail 8.9 and Majordomo to do with the ownership of list
directories. My sendmail application is as follows

-rwsr-x---   1 root     daemon    396460 Sep 12 23:55
/usr/lib/sendmai

The Majordomo installation is

drwxr-xr-x   7 majordom daemon      1024 Sep 13 17:48
/opt/majordomo-1.94.4

And the wrapper and lists are

-rwsr-xr-x   1 root     daemon     26316 Aug 10 17:35
wrapper
drwxr-xr-x   2 majordom daemon       512 Sep 13 17:36 lists

The errors the I've shown above don't seem to be typical of
the problems that most people reported with the ownership
problems in sendmail 8.9.  The ownerships on the mail spool
are

# ls -ld /var
drwxr-xr-x  22 root     sys          512 Aug 17 11:43 /var
# ls -ld /var/spool
drwxr-xr-x  10 root     bin          512 Feb  5  1998
/var/spool
# ls -ld /var/spool/mqueue
drwxrwxr-x   2 root     daemon       512 Sep 13 17:48
/var/spool/mqueue

Can anyone suggest where I should look next ?
Many thanks in advance.
Tony




--
                        Tony Gordon Smith
Gecko Software Limited                   
http://www.geckoware.com
London, England, UK                       tel :+44-7000 043
256
                                          fax :+44-7000 740
175

From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 09:27:12 1998
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	id <SNCBAKFK>; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:23:43 -0700
Message-ID: <373F5C76A624D2119A5E00400543C94C05038C@mail.videonics.com>
From: Steven Beatty <sbeatty@videonics.com>
To: "'majordomo-users@greatcircle.com'" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Commands in Body
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:23:38 -0700
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Is there a method to restrict majordomo from interpreting commands
beyond the first several lines of the body?
=A0

***************************
S. R. Beatty
MIS Manager
Videonics Inc.
(408) 866-8300 X189
***************************=20

=A0

From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 11:29:04 1998
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	by tor.abc.se (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07553;
	Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:24:29 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:24:25 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: tony@geckoware.com
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, Tony Gordon Smith <tony@cape.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Newbie Ques: Majordomo v1.9.4, sendmail 8.9.1, Solaris 2.5.1;
 NOQUEUE,SYSERR
In-Reply-To: <3604E366.60AFCD29@cape.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809201918420.1213-100000@atle>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Tony Gordon Smith wrote:

> > Sep 13 17:36:38 spectrum sendmail[18393]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(majordom):
> >    cannot chdir(mqueue): No such file or directory
(...)
> # ls -ld /var/spool/mqueue
> drwxrwxr-x   2 root     daemon       512 Sep 13 17:48
> /var/spool/mqueue

Does sendmail recognize /var/spool/mqueue as the mail queue directory?
Compare with the setting in sendmail.cf.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se




From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 14:44:09 1998
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	Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:15:11 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:15:07 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Steven Beatty <sbeatty@videonics.com>
cc: "'majordomo-users@greatcircle.com'" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Commands in Body
In-Reply-To: <373F5C76A624D2119A5E00400543C94C05038C@mail.videonics.com>
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On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Steven Beatty wrote:

> Is there a method to restrict majordomo from interpreting commands
> beyond the first several lines of the body?

The command "END" will stop further interpreting.


Mats

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 14:56:56 1998
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Hi All,

I was given the below section to insert into
my CONFIG file to create a table of contents
for my digest listed by subject. But it 
keeps getting rejected. 

The new config file for test-digest was NOT accepted because:
unknown key |_| in file test-digest.new.config at line 239
unknown key |_subjects_| in file test-digest.new.config at line 240
unknown key |end| in file test-digest.new.config at line 242

Here it is:

message_fronter  =  <<END
Index:
-
_SUBJECTS_
END

Also, unsure whether is goes if TEST (individual messages or 
TEST-DIGEST config file.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Ray Gabriel
International Business Discussion Group 

From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 16:28:36 1998
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Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:13:07 -0700 (MST)
From: "Jay V." <infoteq@dracon.net>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Strange Error; Used to work
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809200720130.22221-100000@atle>
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On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Mats Dufberg wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Jay V. wrote:
> 
> >    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> > 550 :include:/var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l... Cannot open
> > /var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l: Group writable directory
> > 554 dstar-l-list... aliasing/forwarding loop broken
> > **********
> > 
> > 
> > Directory/File Permissions are set up like so:
> > 
> > **********
> > drwxrwx---   7 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 18 06:04 /var/lib/majordomo/ 
> > drwxrwx---   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 18 05:54 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/
> 
> 
> Sendmail 8.9.x is more picky about permissions. Do 
>   chmod 750 /var/lib/majordomo/
>   chmod 750 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/
> and it will probably work.
> 

When I do that, I get the following error to the listowner when
mail is sent:

**********
shlock: '/var/lib/majordomo/lists' is not writable by UID 2 GID 2 
**********

-Jay

------------------------------------------------------------------
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			     --------
		 "May the Dragons guide your path."
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From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 19:14:12 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:04:42 +0800
From: LUK ShunTim <cestluk@polyu.edu.hk>
Organization: Department of Civil and Structural Engineering, Hong Kong Polytechnic 
 University 
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To: "Franseth, Greg" <Greg.Franseth@osha-no.osha.gov>
CC: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: ultra-newbie
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"Franseth, Greg" wrote:
> 
> I am sure the following questions will seem simple and unresearched to some
> of you I apologize in advance.  Here goes:
> 
> For various reasons I have no money and must cobble together computer stuff
> where-ever I can.  I was able to put together a pentium computer from spare
> parts and a little luck.  A colleague of mine provided a copy of Win95.
> Because I share this computer, I cannot partition it to run linux.  My
> knowledge of software is quite limited, but I am learning as much and as
> fast as I can.  Greg is kind enough to loan me his e-mail while I work on my
> system.
> 
> I am trying to install majordomo on the system.  I successfully installed
> cygwin32.  I also downloaded majordomo 1.94.4, perl 5.005 and egcs.  I got
> up to the point in the install for majordomo as described in the
> documentation to where I should "make wrapper".  I have searched he archives
> and although I'm sure it must be there somewhere, I was unable to find a
> discussion of install problems at this level.  Most of the discussions since
> I started lurking have dealt with setting up the lists not the install.  the
> error I receive is:
> 
> cc  -DBIN=\"/usr/test/majordomo1.94.4\"
> -DPATH=\"PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb\"
> -DHOME=\"HOME=/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.4\" DSHELL=\"SHELL=/bin/sh\"
> -DMAJORDOMO_CF=\"MAJORDOMO_CF=/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.cf\" -o
> wrapper wrapper.c
> 
> make: /bin/sh: Command not found
> make: *** [wrapper] Error 127
> 
> Since questions at this level of simplicity appear to offend some
> listmembers it is acceptable to me if someone (anyone) would like to reply
> off-list.  My questions are:

Since no old hand replied, let this newbie offer something. I don't
think any real question should be thrown out because it may help
somebody else, who knows.    

> 
> 1)  Can someone explain in detail what this means?
> 
> 2)  What do I do to make the system work right?  Did I install something
> incorrectly?
> 
> 3)  Would someone be willing to make themselves available to me for help
> until I get things working?  (I certyainly would try not to abuse such
> generosity.)
> 
> 4)  What else will help this run better on a windows system?
> 

Majordomo depends on sendmail (a mail transport agent or MTA) to do the
actual mail delivery work and I do not know of any free MTA in "windows
system" (Please tell if there is one) if you mean MS. Even if there is
one, the way it work may well be different. So probably the answer
is:No, not at the present moment. Or not without a lot of effort. May be
you or somebody would like to do that.  

> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.  I really would like to learn this and maybe
> someday I can move to an all linux system.
> 

Move to Linux now. It's not difficult. You can surely do that with a
Pentium.

ST
--

From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 20:15:44 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:06:39 +0800
From: LUK ShunTim <cestluk@polyu.edu.hk>
Organization: Department of Civil and Structural Engineering, Hong Kong Polytechnic 
 University 
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To: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
CC: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: permissions/ownership error.
References: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809191156001.4346-100000@atle>
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Mats Dufberg wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, LUK ShunTim wrote:
> 
> > First the question: Is it *necessary* for the list owner to be the owner
> > of majordomo? Will being in the same group as majordomo (with write
> > privilege, of course) be sufficient?
> 
> Yes, all files, except wrapper, have to be owned by the majordomo user,
> that is the user compiled into wrapper. No, the person in charge of a list
> or the majordomo installation should not be the same as the majordomo
> user.
> 

Forgive me for being verbose. I would like to get things clear. 

I think there are two sets of files. One set is the scripts which, of
course, has to be owned by majordomo (and thanks for the explanation of
the wrapper).

I am talking about the other set which is the lists files tree under
$listdir. When it is set up, this directory tree is owned by
majordomo.majordomo, say. What I would like to have is that when an
ordinary user (not majordomo but belonging to the same group) with an
account on the machine can create a new list and administer it like as
described in the document NEWLIST. According to this document, the first
step will be to create an empty file <list-name> in $listdir, mode 664.
Say this user is joe. This empty file will have an ownership
joe.majordomo and privilege -rw-rw-r--. Joe can do this because he has
write privilege in $listdir. The trouble of chown occurs when somebody
tried to unsubscribe, because the file <list-name>.new created during
the setting up of the list has ownership majordomo.majordomo. If I read
Mat's answer correctly, there is no way that joe can set up a new list
(Or he can but subscribers can't leave :)). Only majordomo (or root)
can.
 
Is this the case? 

ST
--

From majordomo-users-owner  Sun Sep 20 20:38:55 1998
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From: alvin@planet.fef.com (Alvin Oga)
Subject: Re: Strange Error; Used to work
To: infoteq@dracon.net (Jay V.)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: alvin@planet.fef.com (Alvin Oga), majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980920161211.21122A-100000@dracon.net> from "Jay V." at Sep 20, 98 04:13:07 pm
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hi ya Jay..


I'd be curious to see if my little script will catch all your
common mj setup errors....please try it and see if it finds any
more permission problems...
	http://www.Linux-Consulting.com/Majordomo

thanx
alvin
> > > 550 :include:/var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l... Cannot open
> > > /var/lib/majordomo/lists/dstar-l: Group writable directory
> > > 554 dstar-l-list... aliasing/forwarding loop broken
> > > **********
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Directory/File Permissions are set up like so:
> > > 
> > > **********
> > > drwxrwx---   7 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 18 06:04 /var/lib/majordomo/ 
> > > drwxrwx---   2 majordom daemon       1024 Sep 18 05:54 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/
> > 
> > 
> > Sendmail 8.9.x is more picky about permissions. Do 
> >   chmod 750 /var/lib/majordomo/
> >   chmod 750 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/
> > and it will probably work.
> > 
> 
> When I do that, I get the following error to the listowner when
> mail is sent:
> 
> **********
> shlock: '/var/lib/majordomo/lists' is not writable by UID 2 GID 2 
> **********

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 00:15:07 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:06:36 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
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Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Steven Beatty <sbeatty@videonics.com>
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On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Steven Beatty wrote:

> Is there a method to restrict majordomo from interpreting commands
> beyond the first several lines of the body?

majordomo stops processing commands after either the command "end" or
after traditional sig separator (a line begining with two hyphens)

The relies on the person generating the mail to use such commands.  I
don't think that there is any alternative, since some commands like
newinfo, etc will require very long messages.

-j



--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 10:49:28 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:37:43 +0000 (   )
From: "Andy J. Smith" <andy@mythic.net>
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Archiving and web publishing
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Hi,

I'm running Majordomo 1.94.4 on a Red Hat Linux 5.1 machine.  My MTA is 
qmail, and I'm using mjinject as recommended by the qmail & Majordomo
section of www.qmail.org.

I'm looking for a nice way to archive my lists and publish them on the
web.  I have got the supplied archive2.pl script working and archiving
posts in a list.YYYYMM format, this doesn't let me put them on the web
though.

In my searches I stumbled across MHonArc which looks great, and can
produce a great set of web pages from a Majordomo archive.  It can also
add messages to an archive directly, as each message is received.

The problem is the direct adding method means that the whole list will be
put in one archive, not separated by month - this could soon become too
much for a busy list.

The problem with periodically running MHonArc on a Majordomo archive is
that I have heard that archive2.pl strips some useful information from the
headers when it saves the messages, which reduces MHonArc's ability to
thread the archives correctly.  Is this true?

So, basically, I would appreciate if anyone with a working
web-accessible archive could let me know what software they're using.

-- 
Andy J. Smith ... <andy@mythic.net> ... <http://www.strugglers.net/andy>
Mail to andy-key@mythic.net for PGP Key, or check the key servers ......
KeyID: 0xBF15490B FP: 0E42 36CB 5295 1E14 5360  6622 2099 B64C BF15 490B

Software is like sex, it's better when it's free.
  -- Linus Torvalds



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 12:04:13 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:05:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: "Franseth, Greg" <Greg.Franseth@osha-no.osha.gov>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: ultra-newbie
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> "Franseth, Greg" wrote:
> > cc  -DBIN=\"/usr/test/majordomo1.94.4\"
> > -DPATH=\"PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb\"
> > -DHOME=\"HOME=/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.4\" DSHELL=\"SHELL=/bin/sh\"
> > -DMAJORDOMO_CF=\"MAJORDOMO_CF=/usr/test/majordomo-1.94.4/majordomo.cf\" -o
> > wrapper wrapper.c
> > 
> > make: /bin/sh: Command not found
> > make: *** [wrapper] Error 127

It says that there is no executable /bin/sh. Is that so? Where is sh? If
there is any make a soft link from /bin


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 12:19:13 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:23:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: "Jay V." <infoteq@dracon.net>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Strange Error; Used to work
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980920161211.21122A-100000@dracon.net>
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On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Jay V. wrote:

> > Sendmail 8.9.x is more picky about permissions. Do 
> >   chmod 750 /var/lib/majordomo/
> >   chmod 750 /var/lib/majordomo/lists/
> > and it will probably work.
> > 
> 
> When I do that, I get the following error to the listowner when
> mail is sent:
> 
> **********
> shlock: '/var/lib/majordomo/lists' is not writable by UID 2 GID 2 
> **********

Either wrapper is not working/being used, or your have used UID 2 in
wrapper, as far as I can see.

Are you using wrapper? What user have you compiled into wrapper, UID 2,
daemon? Does your system support SUID? Who owns wrapper?


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 12:34:50 1998
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To: "Andy J. Smith" <andy@mythic.net>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Archiving and web publishing
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 21 Sep 1998 14:02:18 -0500
In-Reply-To: "Andy J. Smith"'s message of "Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:37:43 +0000 (   )"
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>>>>> "AJS" == Andy J Smith <andy@mythic.net> writes:

AJS> I'm looking for a nice way to archive my lists and publish them on the
AJS> web.  I have got the supplied archive2.pl script working and archiving
AJS> posts in a list.YYYYMM format, this doesn't let me put them on the web
AJS> though.

Wilma does, though.  See http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/.  It uses MHonArc
and the Glimpse search engine to give you archives broken down by month.
See http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo-users/ for an example.

AJS> The problem with periodically running MHonArc on a Majordomo archive
AJS> is that I have heard that archive2.pl strips some useful information
AJS> from the headers when it saves the messages, which reduces MHonArc's
AJS> ability to thread the archives correctly.  Is this true?

It is not true.  Where did you get this from?

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 12:50:28 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:42:10 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
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To: LUK ShunTim <cestluk@polyu.edu.hk>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: permissions/ownership error.
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On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, LUK ShunTim wrote:

> I think there are two sets of files. One set is the scripts which, of
> course, has to be owned by majordomo (and thanks for the explanation of
> the wrapper).

Actually, the script files could be owned by root since they are not to be
changed by majordomo. But they must be readable by majordomo. The only
file in majordomo's root that should be has to be owned by majordomo is
the log file. And the list directory has to be owned by majordomo.

> I am talking about the other set which is the lists files tree under
> $listdir. When it is set up, this directory tree is owned by
> majordomo.majordomo, say. What I would like to have is that when an
> ordinary user (not majordomo but belonging to the same group) with an
> account on the machine can create a new list and administer it like as
> described in the document NEWLIST. 

All files in the list directories have to be writable by majordomo, since
majordomo will update those files. As far as I know it will not work if
files are owned by anyone else but majordomo.

> According to this document, the first step will be to create an empty
> file <list-name> in $listdir, mode 664. Say this user is joe. This
> empty file will have an ownership joe.majordomo and privilege
> -rw-rw-r--. Joe can do this because he has write privilege in
> $listdir.

You will have to set a password for the majordomo user and let Joe
"su majordomo" and do the work as majordomo. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 13:49:39 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:51:22 +0000
From: Tony Gordon Smith <tony@cape.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: tony@geckoware.com
Organization: Gecko Software Limited
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To: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
CC: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Newbie Ques: Majordomo v1.9.4, sendmail 8.9.1, Solaris 2.5.1; NOQUEUE,SYSERR
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Mats Dufberg wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Tony Gordon Smith wrote:
>
> > > Sep 13 17:36:38 spectrum sendmail[18393]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(majordom):
> > >    cannot chdir(mqueue): No such file or directory
> (...)
> > # ls -ld /var/spool/mqueue
> > drwxrwxr-x   2 root     daemon       512 Sep 13 17:48
> > /var/spool/mqueue
>
> Does sendmail recognize /var/spool/mqueue as the mail queue directory?
> Compare with the setting in sendmail.cf.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se

Mats,

Thanks for the response. The help is *greatly* appreciated.
There is an etnry in the sendmail.cf file for this spool queue

 O QueueDirectory=/var/spool/mqueue

Mail can be sent from other mail user names. Do you have any other suggestions ?

tia

Tony

--
                        Tony Gordon Smith
Gecko Software Limited                    http://www.geckoware.com
London, England, UK                       tel :+44-7000 043 256
                                          fax :+44-7000 740 175




From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 14:06:27 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:58:48 -0400
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
From: Jeff Welch <jwelch@cutter.com>
Subject: update list by just uploading new file?
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Some majordomo installations have a command -- newwho -- that enables you
to overwrite the contents (addresses) of a list with a new list.  I'm
trying to replicate this functionality.  

I could do this by just manually uploading a new list, and overwriting old
the one each time.   Is this advisable?  It seems a little risky, though
I'm not sure why.  Has anyone else done this?

Thanks,

Jeff

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 14:19:18 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:04:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Tony Gordon Smith <tony@cape.demon.co.uk>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, tony@geckoware.com
Subject: Re: Newbie Ques: Majordomo v1.9.4, sendmail 8.9.1, Solaris 2.5.1;
 NOQUEUE,SYSERR
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On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Tony Gordon Smith wrote:

> > > > Sep 13 17:36:38 spectrum sendmail[18393]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(majordom):
> > > >    cannot chdir(mqueue): No such file or directory
> > (...)
> > > # ls -ld /var/spool/mqueue
> > > drwxrwxr-x   2 root     daemon       512 Sep 13 17:48
> > > /var/spool/mqueue
(...)
> There is an etnry in the sendmail.cf file for this spool queue
> 
>  O QueueDirectory=/var/spool/mqueue
> 
> Mail can be sent from other mail user names. Do you have any other
> suggestions ?

Check so that the same sendmail is used. Use the sendmail path that you
find in majordomo's setting file and run
  sendmail -d < /dev/null | grep QueueDirectory


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 17:34:25 1998
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Subject: Re: update list by just uploading new file?
To: jwelch@cutter.com (Jeff Welch)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:36:58 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980921165848.0095e8e0@cutter.com> from "Jeff Welch" at Sep 21, 98 04:58:48 pm
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Jeff Welch said:
> 
> Some majordomo installations have a command -- newwho -- that enables you
> to overwrite the contents (addresses) of a list with a new list.  I'm
> trying to replicate this functionality.  

There is a patch in the archives to enable 'newwho'.

> I could do this by just manually uploading a new list, and overwriting old
> the one each time.   Is this advisable?  It seems a little risky, though
> I'm not sure why.

Only advisable on a policy=closed list. Otherwise:

YOU:	who (to get)
OTHER:	zubscribe list
YOU:	newwho (to put)

You just overwrote the zubscription of the other user.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 17:49:26 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:28:40 -0700
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To: Majordomo Users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: list file permissions problem
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I am setting up majordomo on a new machine and want to keep everything
owned by majordom:majordom (except wrapper of course, which is suid
root:majordom). I also want to keep the files in the lists directory
660. Unfortunately, these two goals seem to be incompatible. 

The only way that I can get a letter out to the list is to make the list
file world readable. I've read the FAQ and it says that you can't do
both of the things that I want to do, but I'm hoping that some
enterprising person has found a way. :) I've added majordomo to
sendmail.cf as a trusted user, tried adding root,daemon to the majordom
group, all to no avail. All aspects of the list function just fine, and
sending mail to the list works just fine when I make the list file world
readable. 

I'm using majordomo 1.94.4, perl 5.00502, sendmail 8.8.8. I'm open to
any suggestion except using another MTA. I am sticking with sendmail. I
would be willing to upgrade to sendmail 8.91a if that would help. Any
other help would be appreciated. :)

Thanks,

Doug

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 19:46:00 1998
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To: Studded <Studded@dal.net>
Cc: Majordomo Users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: list file permissions problem
References: <3606EF38.A9381ACC@dal.net>
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 21 Sep 1998 21:52:32 -0500
In-Reply-To: Studded's message of "Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:28:40 -0700"
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>>>>> "S" == Studded  <Studded@dal.net> writes:

S> The only way that I can get a letter out to the list is to make the list
S> file world readable. I've read the FAQ and it says that you can't do
S> both of the things that I want to do, but I'm hoping that some
S> enterprising person has found a way.

There is a way.  Instead of calling sendmail (see the $mailer variable in
majordomo.cf) you can call a program that feeds addresses to sendmail via
SMTP.  bulk_mailer is such a program, and some time ago I wrote a program
called TLB that was designed to get rid of the outgoing alias entirely.
TLB is kind of rusty now and has some trouble under perl 5.004 and 5.004,
though I did spend a bit of time getting most of the kinks out a couple of
months ago.

Anyway, if you do this you can completely eliminate your outgoing aliases;
with TLB you can get rid of your archive and digest aliases, too (because
it can call them itself).  Nobody can bypass your filtering controls
(unless they get your password).  They can't use EXPN to get your address
lists; all they get is:

expn fvwm
250 <"|/usr/local/lists/majordomo/wrapper resend -l fvwm -h hpc.uh.edu nobody"@sina.hpc.uh.edu>

A local user can't get anywhere near your lists; you can make everything
mode 600 and it will still work.

Caveat: TLB is a true pain in the rear to configure, requires a reasonable
amount of perl knowledge (references and complex nested data structures) and
an understanding of Majordomo internals.  It has a big pile of
functionality that I haven't touched on that makes it big, complicated, and
(if you turn things like sorting and advanced batching on) slow and memory
hungry.  It probably has bugs, although I've run all of my lists with it
for the past three years without any problems.  If you want it, just ask.

And, as many people are probably tired of hearing, the development version
has the useful bits built in.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 21:34:52 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:30:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joe R. Jah" <jjah@cloud.ccsf.cc.ca.us>
To: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
cc: Majordomo Users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: list file permissions problem
In-Reply-To: <ufa4su03llb.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu>
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On 21 Sep 1998, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:

> Date: 21 Sep 1998 21:52:32 -0500
> From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
> To: Studded <Studded@dal.net>
> Cc: Majordomo Users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
> Subject: Re: list file permissions problem
[snip]
> SMTP.  bulk_mailer is such a program, and some time ago I wrote a program
> called TLB that was designed to get rid of the outgoing alias entirely.
> TLB is kind of rusty now and has some trouble under perl 5.004 and 5.004,
> though I did spend a bit of time getting most of the kinks out a couple of
> months ago.

I'm happy to hear you have recently worked on TLB;)  I've been wanting to
upgrade my perl 5.003 on my Majordomo server, but I have been apprehensive
that it might screw up my Majordomo+TLB.  I am interested in your updated
version of TLB.  Is it available for download?  How much trouble does it
have under perl 5.004 and up?

Joe

     _/   _/_/_/       _/              ____________    __o
     _/   _/   _/      _/         ______________     _-\<,_
 _/  _/   _/_/_/   _/  _/                     ......(_)/ (_)
  _/_/ oe _/   _/.  _/_/ ah        jjah@cloud.ccsf.cc.ca.us


From majordomo-users-owner  Mon Sep 21 21:49:19 1998
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To: "Joe R. Jah" <jjah@cloud.ccsf.cc.ca.us>
Cc: Majordomo Users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: list file permissions problem
References: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980921211110.22430A-100000@cloud.ccsf.cc.ca.us>
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 21 Sep 1998 23:46:15 -0500
In-Reply-To: "Joe R. Jah"'s message of "Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:30:33 -0700 (PDT)"
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>>>>> "JRJ" == Joe R Jah <jjah@cloud.ccsf.cc.ca.us> writes:

JRJ> I'm happy to hear you have recently worked on TLB;) I've been wanting
JRJ> to upgrade my perl 5.003 on my Majordomo server, but I have been
JRJ> apprehensive that it might screw up my Majordomo+TLB.

It will cause it to spew a pile of warnings that you can't turn off.  (That
whole mandatory warning thing is a real steaming pile...)

Anyway, someone asked me nicely enough so I fixed the warnings.  I did no
logic restructuring, but then again I saw no reason to do so.

I've applied my patches and put the result in
ftp://ftp.hpc.uh.edu/pub/tlb/.  It passes perl -cw with perl 5.004_04 but I
haven't actually run it.  Have fun.

From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 22 04:04:38 1998
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In the files specified for restrict_post, is it possible to use any
wilcarding in the files for addresses, or do all addresses need to be
listed in the file

Mike


Mike Goumans                                    mgoumans@uunet.ca(work)
Unix Systems Manager                            mike@sage.irix.org(home)
UUnet WorldCom                                  416-216-5137(tel)
416-368-6701(fax)                               416-719-1984(pgr)



From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 22 06:39:15 1998
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Message-ID: <605957CDA54DD211BF940020AFEF309EB8A7@natacha.ambrasoft.lu>
From: CARPENTIER Michel <mca@ambrasoft.lu>
To: Dave Barr <barr@cis.ohio-state.edu>,
        CARPENTIER Michel
	 <mca@ambrasoft.lu>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: RE: Message : MAJORDOMO WARNING (mj_resend) 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:18:56 +0200
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> >I'm running Majordomo 1.94.1 on Linux 2.0.0.
> >Everything works, but now I received :
> >
> >MAJORDOMO WARNING (mj_resend)!!
> >
> >shlock: open('/home/majordom/lists/comite.config.LOCK'): No such =
file or
> >directory
>=20
> does the directory
>=20
> /home/majordom/lists/
>=20
> exist?
>=20
Thanks for your reply.

Yes, it exists.
After sending this message to the list, I found a mail not sent to a =
list
(it was too long), and full of warning messages.
This mail was hold in /var/spool/mqueue and was growing a lot with line =
like
the following :


>From r2d2@*myserver*  Fri Sep 18 17:36:21 1998                   =20
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by *myserver* (8.6.12/8.6.9) i
d RAA02498; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:35:45 +0200

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:35:45 +0200

From: comite@*myserver*                                          =20
Message-Id: <199809181535.RAA02498@*myserver*>                   =20
To: comite

Subject: BOUNCE comite@*myserver*:     Message too long (>40000 ch
ars)

=20

>From r2d2@*myserver*  Fri Sep 18 17:33:56 1998                   =20
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by *myserver* (8.6.12/8.6.9) i
d RAA02446; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:33:18 +0200

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:33:18 +0200

From: comite@*myserver*                                          =20
Message-Id: <199809181533.RAA02446@*myserver*>                   =20
To: comite

Subject: BOUNCE comite@*myserver*:     Message too long (>40000 ch
ars)

=20


I don't understand why it was hold there (and not sent to the =
administrator
of the list concerned).

Anyone can help ?

Many thanks,

--Mike,

-----------------------%<----------------------------
Michel Carpentier
Ambrasoft
mca@ambrasoft.lu
Tel : +352 403420 226
ICQ : 6898839 (http://www.icq.com/)

Ne prenez pas la vie trop au s=E9rieux: de toute fa=E7on, vous n'en =
sortirez
pas vivant. -- Elbert Hubbard



From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 22 09:59:17 1998
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Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:12:49 -0400
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
From: James Ervin <james@kites.org>
Subject: Repeated messages on majordomo list
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Well, I have searche dejanews and the majordomo list archive, but only find
one
hint at the reason for this problem:

I have a small list with 12 participants, but one particular email keeps
coming
back to the list.=A0 This has been going on for days now.=A0 I found this in=
 the
FAQ:

now in sendmail's conf.h in the #ifdef __linux__ section add a line #define
HASFLOCK 0.=20

Aside from recompiling sendmail (which I installed from rpm) is there a fix
for
repeated messages?

The system is Red Hat Linux using sendmail 8.8.4 and majordomo 1.94.4




end

James Ervin
City of Bedford Network Administration
admin@ci.bedford.va.us
(540)586-7156


From majordomo-users-owner  Tue Sep 22 14:52:31 1998
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Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:34:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Sill <de5@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Archiving and web publishing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.02.9809211703120.6375-100000@hades.myth.co.uk>
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"Andy J. Smith" <andy@mythic.net> wrote:
>
>The problem is the direct adding method means that the whole list will be
>put in one archive, not separated by month - this could soon become too
>much for a busy list.
>
>So, basically, I would appreciate if anyone with a working
>web-accessible archive could let me know what software they're using.

I run mhonarc via a script that creates monthly archives, e.g.:

  #!/bin/sh
  PATH=/usr/sbin:/usr/bsd:/sbin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/local/bin
  export PATH
  
  year=`date +%Y`
  month=`date +%m`
  
  mhonarc -add -quiet -outdir /http/docs/LISTNAME/${year}/${month} >>archive.log 2>&1

Been doing it this way for years, and it works great.

-Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 03:50:24 1998
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Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:47:43 +0200
From: n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at (Niels Hansa)
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Subject: Re: restrict_users regexp
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Michael Goumans wrote:
> 
> In the files specified for restrict_post, is it possible to use any
> wilcarding in the files for addresses, or do all addresses need to be
> listed in the file
> 

AFAIK the latter. I just take the <listname> file in /lists. Works !

cu,
Niels

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Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:01:56 -0500
From: Dave Wolfe <dwolfe@risc.sps.mot.com>
To: "Brian L. Heess" <dmbong@commline.com>
Cc: Majordomo Users List <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Wilma 1.4 and daily archives
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[ Brian L. Heess writes: ]
> 
> I am currently only zubzcribed to the workers list, so if you could reply
> or cc me directly, I'd appreciate it!

Me too, so I won't see any replies on the Mj-users list unless I'm also
Cc'ed.

> I am configuring Wilma 1.4 (seems even nicer than 1.3).  I archive all of
> my lists daily in majordomo (I switched to daily years ago since monthly
> was WAY too big for most users), so have file names such as: 
> 
> mantis.19980822
> mantis.19980823
> mantis.19980824
> mantis.19980825
> mantis.19980826
> 
> I guess I'd like either to get the wilma engine to treat each month as a
> whole based on the available archives or add each DAY from the MJ archives
> into a month as time goes on in the Wilma archives (no, I don't think
> breaking the Wilma archives into daily searchable chunks is that helpful
> as there is not THAT much traffic on the lists, so no need to re-write the
> regexp or hack the code for that).
> 
> Has anybody approached this problem or solved it?

Jason and I discussed this long ago in relation to Mj2 and reducing
the intimate ties to monthly archives, but nothing was really settled
and nothing's been done in development of Wilma 2.0. I guess your
choices for the present are hacking the code or using a wrapper to
collect the daily files into a temporary monthly archive. Note that a
wrapper needs to set the modification time of the monthly archive to the
latest modification time of all the dailies that comprise it, otherwise
everything will get rebuilt every run. Or it needs to be smart enough to
not create monthly archives that haven't changed since the last run.

Maybe this is a good opportunity to solicit input for what Wilma should
do in the context of nebulous archiving periods. I wouldn't be adverse
to some variability in the quanta of the searchable "chunks", but I
think it probably should have some limits, say quarterly, monthly, and
weekly, although the problem is how does one concisely express them in a
meaningful way?

-- 
 Dave Wolfe

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 10:04:18 1998
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Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:45:45 -0400
From: Michael Goumans <mgoumans@uunet.ca>
To: Niels Hansa <n.hansa@online.edvg.co.at>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: restrict_users regexp
In-Reply-To: <3608D1CF.4AAB687F@online.edvg.co.at>
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the problem is that although everyone on the list is allowed to post,
certain domains are also allowed to post and post enough that approving
them all would take a bit too long. There is also problems with some users
locally having their addresses show up as strictly a username as they do
mail directly from a shell, and pop users who always have the domain
appended to their mail addresses. The subscriptions include the domain so
anyone using a unix shell on the same machine has to get approved, and if
the domain is removed from the subscription entry, then all pop users who
have a domain appended cant post without approval

Mike


Mike Goumans                                    mgoumans@uunet.ca(work)
Unix Systems Manager                            mike@sage.irix.org(home)
UUnet WorldCom                                  416-216-5137(tel)
416-368-6701(fax)                               416-719-1984(pgr)


On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Niels Hansa wrote:

> Michael Goumans wrote:
> > 
> > In the files specified for restrict_post, is it possible to use any
> > wilcarding in the files for addresses, or do all addresses need to be
> > listed in the file
> > 
> 
> AFAIK the latter. I just take the <listname> file in /lists. Works !
> 
> cu,
> Niels
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 11:14:08 1998
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To: Dave Wolfe <dwolfe@risc.sps.mot.com>
Cc: "Brian L. Heess" <dmbong@commline.com>,
        Majordomo Users List <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Wilma 1.4 and daily archives
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980923005956.12327A-100000@krumm.commline.com> <19980923100156.F16130@risc.sps.mot.com>
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 23 Sep 1998 13:03:44 -0500
In-Reply-To: Dave Wolfe's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:01:56 -0500"
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>>>>> "DW" == Dave Wolfe <dwolfe@risc.sps.mot.com> writes:

DW> Jason and I discussed this long ago in relation to Mj2 and reducing the
DW> intimate ties to monthly archives, but nothing was really settled and
DW> nothing's been done in development of Wilma 2.0.

Note that I really have to make this work in some fashion with Mj2
archives.  I have ideas for a more integrated web/based archiving engine,
but since Wilma is in most ways adequate for the job this is at the bottom
of the priority list.  Thus Wilma will have to learn how to deal with Mj2
archives.

They really aren't any different than Mj1 archives, except that you can
split them by size, too.  Thus you can have yearly, monthly, weekly or
daily archives split into parts by size (message count, lines or bytes) if
you want.  An archive might look like 'test-list.199809-02' for the second
part of the monthly archive from September, 1998.

I was planning to just hack it so that you could lop archives into year,
month, extension, sort by extension and treat everything with the same
extension as a virtual archive.  As long as MHonArc is run on them in
order and the product is dumped into a single directory it should just
work.

It would be nice to extend Wilma to understand a different scale than
monthly; yearlies are nice and for some lists you want weeklies.  This
shouldn't even be difficult.  For high traffic lists, though, it would
probably be better to let MHonArc index as much as possible and have it
split the presentation of indices into reasonable chunks.  This does affect
the limitation of searches by time, though.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 11:19:08 1998
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To: Michael Goumans <mgoumans@uunet.ca>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: restrict_users regexp
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 23 Sep 1998 13:16:10 -0500
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>>>>> "MG" == Michael Goumans <mgoumans@uunet.ca> writes:

MG> the problem is that although everyone on the list is allowed to post,
MG> certain domains are also allowed to post and post enough that approving
MG> them all would take a bit too long.

Then someone's going to have to hack.  Either that or play with the
development version, which allows this kind of thing (though that part of
it is pretty much undocumented right now).

MG> There is also problems with some users locally having their addresses
MG> show up as strictly a username as they do mail directly from a shell,
MG> and pop users who always have the domain appended to their mail
MG> addresses.

Fix your MTA, then.  For sendmail, you want FEATURE(always_add_domain).
Majordomo can't be expected to work around broken local configurations.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 13:50:43 1998
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:36:57 -0400
From: Anthony Galietti <agalietti@sorosny.org>
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Can certain commands be restricted?  For example, I would prefer if the
"who" command could only be used by certain people.

Any advise?

Thanks.

Anthony
agalietti@sorosny.org



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 14:08:49 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:59:02 +0200
From: arjen <av3@xs4all.nl>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: .info and .intro files
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Hi,

i'm looking for docs on the .intro and .info file, especially how to
edit them as a list owner through the .config file (or any other way).
Can someone point me to the right spot?

Arjen van Drie,
Amsterdam.




From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 15:20:49 1998
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Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:07:33 -0300
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Fernando Ronci <fernando@waycom.com.ar>
Subject: Problems w/majordomo
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Hi,
I need help.
I've already installed Majordomo 1.94.4 under SCO OpenServer 5.0.0
running sendmail and Perl 5.005
./usr/local/majordomo/wrapper config-test gave:
Nothing bad found!  Majordomo _should_ work correctly.


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 15:23:39 1998
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Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:25:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nick Gawronski the chihuahua eater <nick@blkbox.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: majordomo lists
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		   Hi, Majordomo lists are very nice to have.  Do you
think majordomo lists are nice?  How can I make a majordomo list?  bye 

Nick Gawronski, e-mail nick@blkbox.com, ftp ftp.eskimo.com at the ftp
prompt type cd /u/n/nick6 to get my welcome message, web page
http://www.blkbox.com/~nick and irc server blindnet.ml.org:2020 on chanels
#computers my own chanel and #blindtalk where all of the blind people talk



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 15:28:25 1998
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X-Lotus-FromDomain: MC
From: "David E Shapiro" <shapi003@mc.duke.edu>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Message-ID: <85256683.00726B85.00@Othello.mc.duke.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:49:45 -0400
Subject: Help!
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I just installed majordomo-1.94.4 over my old majordomo (dates around
1994).  My old alias file points to bin for the wrapper location.  I did a
softlink of wrapper at /opt/local/majordomo/wrapper into the
/opt/local/majordomo/bin directory.  For some reason, because I did this, I
need to make softlinks of majordomo, majordomo.pl and a couple other things
into the bin directory.  Anyway, nothing is going out when I send to a
list.  How can I check to see what happened to my letter that I sent to my
tester list?  This is solaris 2.5.

David




From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 15:35:34 1998
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Message-ID: <001501bde48d$baf238c0$41e9b094@evesham>
Reply-To: "Saleel Majeed" <saleel@trekzone.net>
From: "Saleel Majeed" <saleel@trekzone.net>
To: <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.com>
Subject: Majordomo without root?
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:56:38 +0100
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Hi,

I have just recently found out that my web hoster won't allow me access into
the "root" to install Majordomo.

I was wondering, is it possible to install it without getting into the root?

Thanks

________________________________________________
Saleel Majeed
saleel@trekzone.net
http://www.trekzone.net/
http://www.trekseek.com/



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 15:52:18 1998
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Received: (qmail 5259 invoked by uid 523); 18 Sep 1998 20:23:45 -0000
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:23:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>
To: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: permissions/ownership error.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809182116290.12926-100000@atle>
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it is:
daemon::2:root,bin,daemon,majordomo

still does it.  =(

-tcl.
tim@iuinc.com


On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Mats Dufberg wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, tc lewis wrote:
> 
> > so i'm asking if i can change my /etc/group to remedy this?
> > or do i have to recompile my wrapper program or whatever to use group
> > "majordomo" instead of group "daemon" (daemon is the default), or what?
> 
> Yes, you can make user majordomo be member of group daemon.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se
> 
> 
> 



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 16:09:35 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:01:35 +0800 (CST)
Message-ID: <3607214D.1DE33CE6@ntmail.atlas.net.tw>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:02:21 +0800
From: Ken Hu <ken@ntmail.atlas.net.tw>
Reply-To: ken@atlas.net.tw
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: It Can't work on FreeBSD 2.2.5 platform
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 Hello everyone :

      I have used the majordomo to serve 5 mailing lists on a linux
platform and

 it worked fine.

     Now I have change my work platform to FreeBSD 2.2.5 , and I
install/run

 the majordomo just like the same as before. I don't receive any error
message,

 but after sending messages to a mailing list , users of that list can't
receive

 the message. Do you usr majordomo on FreeBSD , can it work ??

          Thanks a lot !!

                                                         KEN



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 16:14:38 1998
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	Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:13:25 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <001901bde4e4$0133f2a0$c4404382@st.einar>
Reply-To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
From: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
To: "Steven Beatty" <sbeatty@videonics.com>
Cc: "Majordomo Mailing List" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: Commands in Body
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:14:09 +0200
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> Is there a method to restrict majordomo from interpreting commands
> beyond the first several lines of the body?

  Edit your .config file:

  administrative = no

  The Adminstritative parameter in your .config file is probably set
  to "yes" and will look for administrative requests (e.g. subscribe
  and unsubscribe) and wil forward them to the list maintainer instead
  of the list.

/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                                  ICQ 9199591




From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 16:19:40 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:25:31 -0400
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
From: James Ervin <james@kites.org>
Subject: Repeated messages on majordomo list
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Well, I have searche dejanews and the majordomo list archive, but only find
one
hint at the reason for this problem:

I have a small list with 12 participants, but one particular email keeps
coming
back to the list.  This has been going on for days now.  I found this in the
FAQ:

now in sendmail's conf.h in the #ifdef __linux__ section add a line #define
HASFLOCK 0. 

Aside from recompiling sendmail (which I installed from rmp) is there a fix
for
repeated messages?

The system is Red Hat Linux using sendmail 8.8.4 and majordomo 1.94.4



end

James Ervin
City of Bedford Network Administration
admin@ci.bedford.va.us
(540)586-7156



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 16:36:32 1998
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	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:41:01 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:41:00 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Still getting mail
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980916175122.00b3bee8@bizbotweekly.com>
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On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Brooks Douglass wrote:

> I checked their email addresses and they "were" subscribed
> under them in July.  They later unsubscribed from the list but 
> are still getting mail. Some have returned headers.
> 
> One of the addresses is an account of mine, I unsubscribed it 
> and am 'no longer on the list' but it is still getting mail sent
> to that address.

Configure sendmail to include the envelope recepient in the RECIEVED
header, which will make it easier for you to find the address in your
list.



-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se




From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 16:45:55 1998
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	id AA09965; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:10:22 -0700
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:10:22 -0700
From: "system PRIVILEGED account- John F. Marten" <root@tigger.oslc.org>
Message-Id: <9809172210.AA09965@tigger.oslc.org>
To: Majordomo-Users@greatcircle.com
Subject: flooded by cc's
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Md5: Q/dvCHU7y2vagM2v92vGUw==
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

1 of my users is owner of several lists. the other day he sent a message =
to listserver1 and cc'd it to=20
listserver2. pretty soon the subscribers on listserver2 (including =
himself) were=20
getting copy after copy of the same message. when i became aware of the =
problem=20
i looked at the headers in the messages and listserver2 was listed under =
cc not=20
once but 15 times! while trying to troubleshoot the problem the number =
of cc=20
entries continued climbing. i finally removed the alias for listserver2 =
in=20
sendmail and rebuilt the database.
my questions: was this just a fluke caused by the user? is this an =
undisclosed=20
'feature' of majordomo? or was i the victim of a packet-hacker? thank =
you, will=20
summarize.


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 16:57:42 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:11:53 +1000
Reply-To: <mlemsing@swavley.com.au>
From: "Matt Lemsing" <mlemsing@swavley.com.au>
To: <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Need help subscribing users to do system bulletins....
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:10:25 +1000
Message-ID: <000401bde6a8$18897e00$888422cb@magoo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi there.

I have successfully installed Majordomo on our mail server at work (small
Web Development firm). Thing is, i am wanting to use Majordomo to be able to
send weekly buletins to all our system users etc but i dont want to have to
subscribe each user one by one.

question is, is there a way to subscribe ALL of our system users by having
their addresses in a txt file for instance...or is there another way or
what? any help would be great as this is of reasonable importance.

Cheers,

Matt Lemsing.



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 17:02:26 1998
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	by krumm.commline.com (8.8.5/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA12362;
	Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:13:19 -0400 (EDT)
	(envelope-from dmbong@commline.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:13:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Brian L. Heess" <dmbong@commline.com>
To: Majordomo Users List <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
cc: David Wolfe <dave_wolfe@computer.org>
Subject: Wilma 1.4 and daily archives
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980923005956.12327A-100000@krumm.commline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk


I am currently only zubzcribed to the workers list, so if you could reply
or cc me directly, I'd appreciate it!

I am configuring Wilma 1.4 (seems even nicer than 1.3).  I archive all of
my lists daily in majordomo (I switched to daily years ago since monthly
was WAY too big for most users), so have file names such as: 

mantis.19980822
mantis.19980823
mantis.19980824
mantis.19980825
mantis.19980826

I guess I'd like either to get the wilma engine to treat each month as a
whole based on the available archives or add each DAY from the MJ archives
into a month as time goes on in the Wilma archives (no, I don't think
breaking the Wilma archives into daily searchable chunks is that helpful
as there is not THAT much traffic on the lists, so no need to re-write the
regexp or hack the code for that).

Has anybody approached this problem or solved it?

Cheers!

-Brian



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 17:19:55 1998
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  by postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 2.6b1)
  with SMTP id 1462203; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:28:28 -0400
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:29:16 -0400
To: Brooks Douglass <brooks@bizbotweekly.com>
From: "Harrington B. Laufman" <hlaufman@postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Still getting mail
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980916175122.00b3bee8@bizbotweekly.com>
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At 05:51 PM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Might it be possible that they are subscribed using some other name and
>>the msgs there are getting forwarded to their current accounts?
>
>That was my first thought [...]

Just a thought, looking for simple solutions... Is the "list-outbound" 
alias correct?

Harrington
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Harry Laufman  Manager, Computer Operations
       OSU College of Food, Agricultural and Environmental Sciences
                    E-Mail: laufman.1@osu.edu
       101 Vivian Hall                 Voice: 614-292-6554
       Columbus, Ohio 43210            FAX  : 614-688-4009
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 18:14:04 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:32:01 -0700
Organization: AAAI
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: What's error 64?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

I've got working lists with majordomo, but when trying to add the
archive feature, I keep getting this error:

Sep 18 07:18:56 site.com resend[9596] {test} ABORT Mailer
/usr/lib/sendmail -oi -oee -fowner-test@site.com test-list exited
unexpectedly with error 64

Using archive2.pl and shlock.pl, Perl 5.003, majordomo 1.94.3, HP-UX
9.04, sendmail v8

I've added the alias entries for test-archive, the correct directory and
permissions.  archive2.pl and shlock.pl run without error.  Any ideas? 
Thanks,

-Rich

P.S. I've read this from the FAQ, but it doesn't really help:

64 - EX_USAGE - Sendmail uses this to indicate a command line usage
error, but it also uses it to report a general error condition. Some
versions of Sendmail do this somewhat unpredictably and for this reason
the '-oee' flag has been added to the default mailer definitions.  This
flag should prevent these errors for versions of Sendmail that support
it.

The regular domo lists work fine; the error only shows up when I try to
add the archive feature.  Any and all help is appreciated.


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 18:47:56 1998
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	for <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:49:57 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <005a01bde263$a83de430$a7736d82@twister.ncsc.navy.mil>
Reply-To: "Phil Bernstein" <phil_bernstein@net-waves.com>
From: "Phil Bernstein" <phil_bernstein@net-waves.com>
To: <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Suppressing Results
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:50:22 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Can I suppress the results from being sent to the user of a successful
subscribe?
My users get a message like below, only much longer and with the advanced
help file appended at the end.  I would like to stop this but can't find a
way.

===============================================
--

>>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
**** Command 'this' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BDE229.F87D2710
**** Command '------=_nextpart_000_0045_01bde229.f87d2710' not recognized.
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
**** Command 'content-type:' not recognized.
>>>> charset="iso-8859-1"
**** Command 'charset="iso-8859-1"' not recognized.
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
**** Command 'content-transfer-encoding:' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> subscribe LISTNAME
Succeeded.

<stuff cut>
======================================



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 19:07:22 1998
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Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:01:42 -0500
To: Majordomo Users Mailing List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
From: David Gibbs <david@midrange.com>
Subject: Using ERRORS-TO header?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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Greetings!

A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) I used a different mailing list
package for fidonet gating called GIGO... that package used the header
directive "ERRORS-TO:" to redirect delivery errors to another address.

I seem to remember reading a reason NOT to use this directive, but I cannot
find it.

Is using ERRORS-TO a bad idea?  If so, why?

Thanks!

david

--
| Internet: david@midrange.com
| WWW:      http://www.midrange.com/david
|
| ... A man can move mountains, a world can be turned,
| and the greatest of distances easily spanned,
| When the strength that's invested in making a fist
| is transformed into shaking a hand
|
|			- DMRoth



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 19:18:30 1998
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	by mail.wittenberg.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA03270;
	Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:50:08 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:52:25 -0400
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
From: "Gary M. Luthman" <gluthman@wittenberg.EDU>
Subject: Assistence
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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Please help
I have been running Majordomo for over a year.   Recently had an intruder.
Then possibly set (reset)
file protections to produce the following:

# Sep 17 10:27:23 mail.wittenberg.edu sendmail[1038]: KAA01038: Losing
qfKAA0103
8: savemail panic
Sep 17 10:27:23 mail.wittenberg.edu sendmail[1038]: KAA01038:
SYSERR(majordomo):
 savemail: cannot save rejected email anywhere: Resource temporarily
unavailable


Platform info:
/opt/majordomo-1.94.3
Hostname: mail.wittenberg.edu
Hostid: 8088f862
Release: 5.5.1
Kernel architecture: sun4u
Application architecture: sparc
Hardware provider: Sun_Microsystems
Domain:
Kernel version: SunOS 5.5.1 Generic 103640-20 March 1998

Thanks,  Gary

******************************************************************************
Those who can see the invisible........can do the impossible!

Gary M. Luthman		  Manager of Systems	
Wittenberg University                 Phone: (937) 327-6176
P.O. Box 720                            Fax:     (937) 327-6340
Springfield, Ohio 45501



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 19:21:30 1998
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Received: (qmail 4480 invoked by uid 523); 18 Sep 1998 20:01:57 -0000
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:01:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: tc lewis <tim@iuinc.com>
To: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: permissions/ownership error.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.00.9809182041130.12926-100000@atle>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980918155920.20999N-100000@wopr.iuinc.com>
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i know that.  if you had included the rest of my message, you'd see that i
said everything in there was owned by the "daemon" group, which was
messing things up.  so i manually set them to the "majordomo" group.
however, when list configs are changed, it writes a new file,
list.config.new or whatever, which is owned by group "daemon" (user
"majordomo" still), so then i get these errors and i have to go manually
set the lists to group majordomo before they can work again.

so i'm asking if i can change my /etc/group to remedy this?
or do i have to recompile my wrapper program or whatever to use group
"majordomo" instead of group "daemon" (daemon is the default), or what?

-tcl.
tim@iuinc.com


On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Mats Dufberg wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, tc lewis wrote:
> 
> > chown(15001, 15001, "/usr/local/majordomo/lists/illimms.new"): Operation not 
> > permitted
> 
> Make sure all files and the list directory is owned by the majordomo user
> and its group.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se
> 
> 
> 



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 19:37:48 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:21:11 -0500
To: Majordomo Users Mailing List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
From: David Gibbs <david@midrange.com>
Subject: Using ERRORS-TO header?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

(this is a resend, as I never saw the message on the list and got no replies)

Greetings!

A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) I used a different mailing list
package for fidonet gating called GIGO... that package used the header
directive "ERRORS-TO:" to redirect delivery errors to another address.

I seem to remember reading a reason NOT to use this directive, but I cannot
find it.

Is using ERRORS-TO a bad idea?  If so, why?

Thanks!

david 
--
| Internet: david@midrange.com
| WWW:      http://www.midrange.com/david
|
| ... A man can move mountains, a world can be turned,
| and the greatest of distances easily spanned,
| When the strength that's invested in making a fist
| is transformed into shaking a hand
|
|			- DMRoth



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 22:08:49 1998
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 (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id <B0000263925@ourgallery.ourgallery.com>;
 Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:17:55 -0400
Message-ID: <B0000263925@ourgallery.ourgallery.com>
X-Sender: ray@earthone.com
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:18:50 -0400
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Ray Gabriel <ray@earthone.com>
Subject: Help for newbies
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I've just signed up for a service that
includes Majordomo list hosting making
me the new "systems administrator.

I already have 2 (non-Majordomo) mailing 
lists with close to 8,000 members, but 
I'm not a programmer and am unfamiliar 
with the software. 

I've been following this list for 
awhile, and was wondering if anyone
has or knows where to get a simplified
instruction sheet for managing, posting,
etc. using the current Majordomo written
for non-programmers?

I've got the FAQ but it is aimed primarily
at those already familiar with the software
and programming. Neither of which I am<g>.

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks all!


Ray Gabriel
executive director 
Association for International Business
hosts of the International Business Discussion Group
P.O.Box 1080  Salida, Colorado 81201 - USA
tel/fax: 719-942-4040
-------------------------------------------------------
serving nearly 8,000 community members in 160 countries 
Home Page:        http://www.earthone.com
E-mail Discussion:http://earthone.com/internat.html
Archives:         http://www.liszt.com/read/intlbiz/
Information:      mailto:info@earthone.com








From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 22:31:51 1998
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        by kansas.pn.com (8.9.1/8.8.0) with SMTP id KAA29669
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X-Sender: jwelch@cutter.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:38:31 -0400
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Jeff Welch <jwelch@cutter.com>
Subject: Re: Bounced Messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980917163928.13274B-100000@mindresearch.cas.
 ilstu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Chuck: This is caused by the setting "administrivia=yes" in the config file.
Majordomo is checking the first 5 lines of your message for a word that
might be construed as a majordomo command (instead of just harmless text in
a message).  According to the error msg you sent, you probably have the
word "index" in the first five lines.  Any words in the first 5 lines of
your message that are also majordomo commands (subscribe, help, etc.) will
trigger this

To solve it, either:

  1) change administrivia to "no" in the config
  2) move the line with the word "index" past line 5 in the message body
  3) use a synonym for "index" that's not a majordomo command

>A snippet from the headers are as follows:
>-------------------------------------------------------
>Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:29:05 -0500
>From: owner-server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu
>To: owner-server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu
>Subject: BOUNCE server_tm@mindresearch.cas.ilstu.edu:  
>   Admin request of type 
>/^\s*index\s+\S+\s*$/i at line 8
>
>Any ideas what may be occuring? Up until recently,
>we have been able to send email to this list.
>None of the aliases have changed.
>
>Thanks for any and all replies.
>
>  Chuck L.



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 22:51:30 1998
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From: Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribers still get mail
References: <3.0.32.19980914194717.00b1c36c@bizbotweekly.com>
X-No-Archive: yes
Mail-Copies-To: never
Date: 18 Sep 1998 10:10:47 -0400
In-Reply-To: Brooks Douglass's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:48:24 -0700"
Message-ID: <x7ogsdmryw.fsf@gkar.prescienttech.com>
Lines: 34
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Brooks Douglass writes:

> I have people who have unsubscribed from my list but are still receiving
> messages from it. The majordomo results says 'they are not members of the
> list' yet they are getting mail.

Messages already in the mailq queue will still be delivered, even after
the unsubscription goes through.  Those should trickle out in a couple of
days, max.

Another frequent problem is that people subscribe at one place, move to
another, and set up their mail to forward to the new place.  A variation of
this is when an ISP decides to change things around and not inform their
customers how to deal with it.  The fix there is to send the unsubscription
request from the same address as was used to subscribe (originator header).

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> / Warning: pregnant women, the
Sysmonster, Unix Wrangler                / elderly, and children under 10
Prescient Technologies, Inc.            / should avoid prolonged exposure to
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC    / Happy Fun Ball.



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 22:51:33 1998
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From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
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Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Bruce A Mackenzie <BMackenzie@draper.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: majordomo web subscribe form
In-Reply-To: <199809151558.LAA21357@egbsun1.draper.com>
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On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Bruce A Mackenzie wrote:

> >> From: "James R. Edgar" <edgar@mail.afterfive.com>
> >> Does majordomo have a webbased interface or is it possible to add a
> >> web based interface to majordomo. 
> > 
> I know 3 diferent people who wrote special purpose cgi scripts for
> people to subscribe & UNsubscribe to various e-mail lists via a web page.

Add a fourth, but in our case we didn't produce a specific cgi for
majordomo, but have a general cgi for sending email from a form.  It is
complicated and some of it is site specific.  (It's also not my code.
My out of date documentation for it lives at

 http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/docs/mailform/

Someday it will be prepared for CPAN.

> Trouble is, it is hard to catch typing errors in their e-mail address.
> And, people can type someone else's address.

We open+confirm as the subscribe policy.  We added a bit of text to the
"auth" message to make it clearer.  But I would say that 1 out of 15
subscribers are totally baffled by it.   Also the html generated when
the form is submitted should explain what should happen next.

One example (without enough explanation in the page generated on form
submission) is off the Bletchley Park site 

            http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/ccc/bpark/

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 23:10:04 1998
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Reply-To: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
From: "St.Einar" <st.einar@bigfoot.com>
To: "Majordomo Mailing List" <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: majordomo web subscribe form
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:07:30 +0200
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> Typically, the new subscriber types their e-mail address
> and name (optional) in a web form.  Then a cgi script
> constructs a 'subscribe' message and sends it to majordomo.
>
> Trouble is, it is hard to catch typing errors in their
> e-mail address. And, people can type someone else's
> address.

  Set SUBSCRIBE_POLICY to CLOSED (subscribe_policy = closed)

  This requires maintainer approval for all subscribe requests
  to the list.

  

/ St.Einar, Oslo - Norway                          ICQ 9199591


  ---

To suggest a less error-prone majordomo enhancement:
   A web page could use the html "mailto:" reference.  But, 'mailto:" 
can not put the word 'subscribe' in the body of a message.
So, it must addressed to a new address: 'list-subscribe@majordomo...'
This eliminates the need for the subscriber to type his address.
They can subscribe with about 2 mouse clicks ('mailto:'  &  'send').

   An alternate is to specify a default 'subject:' with the 'mailto:'
reference, ie,   "mailto: majordomo@... Subject: subscribe list-name"
(can someone remind me of the exact syntax privately).
But, I don't want to start an argument on the merits of putting
commands in subject lines, so ... never-mind.

  ----

An example of a web-subscribe form where the subscriber must type and
confirm his address is near the bottom of:    www.spaceviews.com
But please do not try to subscribe to SpaceViews this week, 
unless you want the NSS Space Exploration & Development newsletter.
We are switching servers, so you can subscribe, but not UNsubscribe, now.
Let me know if the majordomo team wishes to enhance & support this in
a future release.

Thanks, 
---Bruce A. Mackenzie    BMackenzie@draper.com 





From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 23:22:23 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:16:38 -0400
From: "Gail Hunn" <HUNNGAI@pentamation.com>
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Logging and (un)subscribe don't work
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Howdy.

I have been setting up Majordomo version 1.94.4.  I've never set up a =
mailing list before.

I followed all the instructions (I think!) in the README, INSTALL, and =
NEWLIST files, read the FAQ, checked my configuration files, and I still =
can't subscribe to my list.  If I send mail to the -request alias, I get =
back the welcome message, but my e-mail address is never added to list =
file.  I keep checking the Log file, but nothing is being written there, =
either.

So, what am I still doing wrong, pray tell?

My list is called "pei-announce".  Don't ask me why I picked a long and =
unwieldy name like that, I couldn't tell you what I was thinking.

My lists are supposed to be in a directory called "lists", and I have the =
following permissions on that directory and the Log file:

-rwxrwxrwx   1 majordom majordom         0 Sep 21 11:29 Log
drwxrwxrwx   2 majordom majordom    8192 Sep 21 17:04 lists

the permissions for the files in the lists directory are as follows =
(according to the instructions in the NEWLIST file):

-rw-rw-r--   1 root     majordom       0 Sep 21 16:55 pei-announce
-rw-rw----   1 daemon   majordom   16130 Sep 21 17:04 pei-announce.config  =
(This was actually generated by my "config" command)
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     majordom       0 Sep 21 16:56 pei-announce.info

I have tried to make the permissions on these files 777 to see if that =
would make a difference, but it didn't.

My aliases look like this  (I did not include the owner- aliases below, =
since I don't think they are the problem):

# Aliases for Majordomo mailing lists
majordomo:/export1/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper majordomo
# list: pei-announce
pei-announce:"|/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper resend -l pei-announce pei-announc=
e-list"
pei-announce-list::include:/majordomo-1.94.4/lists/pei-announce
pei-announce-request:"|/majordomo-1.94.4/wrapper request-answer pei-announc=
e"


I'm really stumped by this.  I hope somebody can steer me in the right =
direction.  I will greatly appreciate any advice.

Thank you.

-Gail Hunn



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 23:33:07 1998
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:23:02 -0400
To: Michael Behar <michaelb@wired.com>
From: "Harrington B. Laufman" <hlaufman@postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: unwanted messages
Cc: Majordomo-Users@greatcircle.com
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At 11:59 AM 9/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>i use majordomo to run a private list. however, a nonmember continues to
>post to the list. they are not a subscriber, so they don't receive
>postings. [...]

Sounds like the configuration is such that subcriptions must be approved,
but posting is not restricted to the list?

See configuration file:
        # restrict_post        [restrict_post] (undef) <resend>
        # If defined, only addresses listed in these files (colon or space
        # separated) can post to the mailing list. By default, these files
        # are relative to the lists directory. These files are also checked
        # when get_access, index_access, info_access, intro_access,
        # which_access, or who_access is set to 'list'. This is less useful
        # than it seems it should be since there is no way to create these
        # files if you do not have access to the machine running resend.
        # This mechanism will be replaced in a future version of
        # majordomo/resend.
restrict_post       = mylist
                      ^^^^^^ 
Put your list's name here, which will be the file listing the subscribers here.

Or,see:
        # taboo_body           [regexp_array] (undef) <resend>
        # If any line of the body matches one of these regexps, then the
        # message will be bounced for review.
taboo_body          <<  END

END

and put a regular expression matching the spammers e-mail address in between 
the ENDs, like   /spammer@someplace.com/

Harrington
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Harry Laufman  Manager, Computer Operations
       OSU College of Food, Agricultural and Environmental Sciences
                    E-Mail: laufman.1@osu.edu
       101 Vivian Hall                 Voice: 614-292-6554
       Columbus, Ohio 43210            FAX  : 614-688-4009
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 23:35:17 1998
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To: "Bruce L. Rice" <bruce@ink.org>
Cc: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: aliasing/forwarding loop broken error. 
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:32:25 CDT.
             <35FFE818.F21FD905@ink.org> 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:17:47 -0700
From: John Sechrest <sechrest@peak.org>
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Precedence: bulk


	Usually this is a problem with someone not being subscribe
	to the list (IE the list is empty).
	
	The second most likely cause is a permissions problem.
	
	Since you say you tested both of these,
	my next suspition is that 

 % 550 :include:/export/staff/majordom/lists/test  ... Cannot open
 % /export/staff/majordom/lists/test: Group writable
 % directory
 
 	is the key.
	
	
	IE, the file /export/staff/majordom/lists/test is not
	really the right file. Or in this case, something about
	group writable.
	
	




"Bruce L. Rice" <bruce@ink.org> writes:

 % I just install majordomo on a new machine.  I can send mail to majordomo

 % and it works fine.  I can subscribe and unsubscribe to lists, but
 % I can't post messages to any of the lists.  When I try it gives me an
 % aliasing/forwarding loop broken error e-mail message.  The message
 % says....

 %    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
 % <test@ink8.ink.org>
 % :include:/export/staff/majordom/lists/test
 %     (expanded from: <test@ink8.ink.org>)
 % 
 %    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
 % 550 :include:/export/staff/majordom/lists/test  ... Cannot open
 % /export/staff/majordom/lists/test: Group writable
 % directory
 % Message delivered to mailing list <test@ink8.ink.org>
 % 554 <test@ink8.ink.org>... aliasing/forwarding loop broken
 % 
 % In the FAQ is says to make sure you have an e-mail in the list, which a
 % do or that it is a permissions problem.  I have tried a varity of
 % permission settings and nothing seems to work.
 % 
 % the machine is a sun server runing solaris 2.6, majordomo version 1.94.4
 % 
 % and sendmail version 8.9.0
 % 
 % would appreciate the help if anybody has any ideas on what could be
 % causing it.
 % thanks.
 % 
 % 
 % 
 % 

-----
John Sechrest          .         Helping people use
   PEAK -               .           computers and the Internet
Public Electronic         .            more effectively
Access to Knowledge,Inc       .                      
850 SW 15th Street              .            Internet: sechrest@peak.org
Corvallis Oregon 97331               .                  (541) 754-7325
                                            . http://www.peak.org/~sechrest


From majordomo-users-owner  Wed Sep 23 23:41:23 1998
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	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:23:44 -0400
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:23:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: Bruce A Mackenzie <BMackenzie@draper.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: majordomo web subscribe form
In-Reply-To: <199809151558.LAA21357@egbsun1.draper.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980918081028.29971B-100000@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
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On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Bruce A Mackenzie wrote:

:I know 3 diferent people who wrote special purpose cgi scripts for people
:to [s]ubscribe & UN[s]ubscribe to various e-mail lists via a web page. 
:
:We would very much like a standard version of it.

I'm not sure there's such a thing as a _standard_ version of it, but I
have a pretty simple one for [s]ubscribing which is reproduced below.

: Typically, the new [s]ubscriber types their e-mail address and name
:(optional) in a web form.  Then a cgi script constructs a '[s]ubscribe'
:message and sends it to majordomo.
:
:Trouble is, it is hard to catch typing errors in their e-mail address.
:And, people can type someone else's address.

That's why all of our lists have the confirm option set.

To invoke the script in a webpage, insert the following HTML:

<a
href="/cgi-bin/listsub?list=LISTNAME;class_url=http://CLASS_URL">Subscribe
to discussion list</a>

You may omit the class_url piece.

The code below is pretty hacky, and doesn't do enough error checking, but
it's functional. 

listsub:

#!/usr/bin/perl
#
# simple script to send mail to subscribe to MJ list
# and which provides webform
#
$MAILHOST="gsulaw.gsu.edu";
$SENDMAIL = "/usr/lib/sendmail";
require "cgi-lib.pl";

&ReadParse;

foreach (keys %in) {
	if (!$in{$_}) {
# all variables  required
		$errmsg .= "$_\n";
	}
}

subForm($in{list}) unless $in{email};

if ($errmsg) {
	print &PrintHeader;
	print <<EOF;
<html><head><title>Missing Fields</title></head>
<body>
<h1 align=center>Missing Fields</h1>
The following fields are required and were left blank:<p>
$errmsg<p>
<hr>
Please go <a href="$ENV{HTTP_REFERER}">back</a> and try again.
</body></html>
EOF
exit;
}

open(MAIL,"|$SENDMAIL -t");
print MAIL "To: majordomo\@$MAILHOST\n";
print MAIL "From: $in{email}\n";
print MAIL "Subject:\n\n";
print MAIL "subscribe $in{list}\n";
close MAIL;

print <<EOF;
Content-type: text/html

<html><head><title>Subscription Request Submitted</title></head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<h1 align="center">Subscription Request Submitted</h1>
<hr>

Your request to subscribe to <b>$in{list}\@$MAILHOST</b> has been
submitted.  A request to confirm your subscription has been emailed to you
at <b>$in{email}</b>.  Please follow the confirmation instructions
carefully. 

<hr>

EOF

if ($in{class_url}) {
	print <<EOF;
<a href="$in{class_url}">Return</a>.
<hr>
EOF
}

print <<EOF;

</body></html>
EOF
exit;

sub subForm {
	($list)=@_;
	$listmsg="your discussion list";
	$listmsg="<b>$list</b>" if $list;
	print <<EOF;
Content-type: text/html

<html><head><title>Subscription Request</title></head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFF">
<h1 align="center">Majordomo List Subscription Request</h1>
<hr>
Fill out this form to subscribe to $listmsg.

<p>
<form method=post>
Listname: <input type=text size=10 name=list value=$list>\@$MAILHOST<br>
You must provide your <i>complete</i> email address (e.g. gs01abc\@panther.gsu.edu) and not just your user ID.<br>
Email Address: <input type=text name=email><br>
<input type=submit value="Submit Subscription Request">
<input type=hidden name=class_url value="$in{class_url}">
</form>
<hr>
</body></html>
EOF
exit;
} # end subForm



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 00:01:34 1998
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:00:55 -0500
From: Jay Truesdale <jet@cbi.mobot.org>
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FYI:

I tried for a couple of days to make Majordomo work with the Netscape
Messaging Server  (v 3.01) with no success. The problem seemed to me to
be a lack of support for sendmail's :import: macro (command?). I asked
our Netscape rep if this was even possible and he forwarded my message
on to a technical person for an answer which I have included here.

----- start of included message ----

Hi Jay, here is some food for thought from some folks here at netscape:
----------
No way to get this to work that I know of. We will have this type of
capability in messaging server 4.1. We do however work
with listserv ( I believe only the lite version).
thanks.
- Sean
----------
> I've spent the better part of two days trying to get Netscape
> Messaging Server working with Majordomo. My own opinion is that it
> is not possible to make the two work together due to the Netscape
> Messaging Server not supporting the sendmail :include: macro.

Right; Majordomo's very sendmail-centric.

> If it is not possible, are there any other mailing list managers (free

> or not) that will work with the Netscape Messaging Server?

I've attached a document describing how to integrate Listserv with
Messaging Server. Note: I've never done it, and the information may be
out of date. But any MLM (mailing list manager) that can accept input
from stdin should work.

----- end of included message -----

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From: nsjaveri@netscape.com (Nurudin Javeri)
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Hi Jay, here is some food for thought from some folks here at netscape:
----------
No way to get this to work that I know of. We will have this type of
capability in messaging server 4.1. We do however work
with listserv ( I believe only the lite version).
thanks.
- Sean
----------
> I've spent the better part of two days trying to get Netscape
> Messaging Server working with Majordomo. My own opinion is that it
> is not possible to make the two work together due to the Netscape
> Messaging Server not supporting the sendmail :include: macro.

Right; Majordomo's very sendmail-centric.

> If it is not possible, are there any other mailing list managers (free

> or not) that will work with the Netscape Messaging Server?

I've attached a document describing how to integrate Listserv with
Messaging Server. Note: I've never done it, and the information may be
out of date. But any MLM (mailing list manager) that can accept input
from stdin should work.

Q:  What is Listserv, and can I use it with Netscape Messaging Server?

A:  Faten Hellal prepared this document about Listserv:


                              LISTSERV MAILING LIST SERVER


1. WHAT IS LISTSERV ?

ListServ is a system that allows you to create, manage and control
electronic "Mailing Lists" on a corporate network or on the
Internet. Created in 1986 for IBM mainframes on the BITNET academic
network, today Listserv is available for VM, VMS,
UNIX ( including AIX, SunOS, Dec-UX, BSDi, Sparc Solaris, Solaris X86,
Ultrix, IRIX, HP-UX, Linux, UnixWare 1.1,
SCO Unix, and Interactive Unix), Win NT, and has already been ported to
windows 95, Macintosh and MPE (HP3000)
environments.

L-Soft offers ListServ under 2 pricing, licensing options:

     Flat fee for unlimited use
     Graduated charging based on capacity, with entry prices as low as
$500/year for academic use or $625/year for
     corporate use.

To request further information, send e-mail to sales@lsoft.com or call
L-Soft International, Inc. at: (301) 731-0440.


2. CREATE AND MANAGE THE MAILING LIST THAT FITS YOUR NEEDS

ListServ installation guide is available in the appendices, after
installing ListServ and Netscape Mail Server 2.0 you'll be able to
create and manage mailing lists for internal and/or external use.

Before starting, you might want to check if the name you choose for your
mailing list is already in use or not. To do so:

     you need to send an e-mail to listserv@listserv.net,
     in the body of the message type: List global search_string
     you'll get a reply back informing you of whether the name you
choose id already in use or not.

Let's assume that you have installed both ListServ and Netscape Mail
Server 2.0 on the same system, and would like to create
a mailing list for announcements and product support, but you don't want
your users to send messages to the distribution,
however you would like to give them the freedom to subscribe and sign
off from your list whenever they like. Hereafter the
creation of the mailing list that fits these specifications:

        Mailing list integration with Netscape Mail Server
     To be able to deliver messages, every mailing list you create
requires (at least) 3 mail accounts within the Mail server
     (Including ListServ itself as a program delivery that requires 3
e-mail accounts too). An account for the mailing list it self,
     a second account for its owner which is required by the system to
deliver error messages, and a third account for users
     questions and feedback.
          From a forms capable browser, access the administration server
of the Netscape Mail server at :
          http://www.domain.com:port
          In order to create 3 accounts for the new mailing list, repeat
the following steps for every account. Choose to
          'Create a New User', and fill in the following information.
               General Account Information
                    User Real Name: which will be a link to access this
user account information and could be a short
                    description of the account name (e.g.: workshop
mailing list)
                    Password: the individual user's account password
                    Password again: for security reasons
                    Finger information: input the desired reply to
finger inquiries, we will leave this section blank.
               E-mail Addressing Information -- Internet (SMTP Channel)
                    Internet Address: the e-mail address of this account
(e.g.: workshop@iapp.netscape.com for the
                    main mailing list then
owner-workshop@iapp.netscape.com for the owner of the mailing list and
                    finally the third account should be
workshop-request@iapp.netscape.com and this one will be used
                    as a feedback mailing list)
                    From Address Rewrite Style: no preferences
               Local Delivery Information
                    Disable POP3.
                    Enable UNIX delivery, where the Unix login is
listserv (the Listserv user name).
                    Enable Program Delivery, in the command line enter
the following:
                    "|/AAA/lsv_amin /BBB user name"
                    AAA is the directory where the lsv_amin program was
installed (the BINDIR macro in the Makefile)

                    BBB is the ListServ spool directory (the LSCSPOOL
macro from the Mikefile)
                    Specify any Forwarding Addresses: you can specify
your e-mail address if needed.
               Account Security Parameters
                    Access Domains: domains that are allowed to access
this user account
                    Finger Access: this section will remain blank since
finger information is not enabled
               Automatic Reply Information: this section will remain
blank, as we don't need it for this integration.
        Create archive database
     If you're not planning on having archives enabled for you mailing
list skip this section, otherwise:
          login using the listserv user name, to the system where you
have listserv installed.
          in the listserv home directory (that's the AAA path specified
earlier) create a directory called
          "YOUR-MAILING-LIST-NAME"-notebook (e.g.: workshop-notebook).
          In this directory, ListServ will create a database to store
messages sent to the mailing list, then new users can
          request those messages by indexing the mailing list and
requesting logs.
        Create the mailing list header that fits your needs
     Hereafter a sample of a mailing list header:

     L1  PUT "MAILING-LIST-NAME" LIST PW=SAMPLE

     L2  * The XYZ Mailing List

     L3  * Owner= person1@somewhere.com

     L4  * Owner= Quiet:,person2@somewhere.com

     L5  * Editor= person3@somewhere.com

     L6  * Errors-To= Owner

     L7  * Subscription= By Owner

     L8  * Confidential= No

     L9  * Notify= Yes

     L10 * Send= Editor,Hold

     L11 * Review= OWNERS

     L12 * Stats= Normal,Private

     L13 * Validate= Yes

     L14 * Notebook=Yes,/AAA/"name"-notebook,Weekly,Private

     L15 * PW= SAMPLE

     L16

     Following is the explanation of the keywords used within the
header:
     L1 : this is a command that allows listserv to store the mailing
list in a file where the new users will be added.
     L2 : this line is the first line of the new mailing list file, it's
a short description of the mailing list.
     L3 : the owner of the mailing list is the person who performs
management tasks and deals with error messages.
     L4 : a quiet owner is allowed to manage the mailing list but
doesn't deal with error messages.
     L5 : the editor (along with owners) is the only person allowed to
send messages to the distribution list, unless the mailing
     list is public and opened for all users ( subscribed or not).
     L6 : specify the person who deals with error messages, if it's the
owner, the quiet owner is excluded.
     L7 : subscription are done by the owner or by a specific user,
means that this later will confirm users subscriptions.
     L8 : determines whether or not an entry for a list appears in the
list of lists, so if a user send a message to L-Soft
     searching if the name of his mailing list is already in use or not,
the result will come from the list of lists that L-Soft
     maintains.
     L9 : notification is enabled which means that if a user subscribe
him or her self to your mailing list, after confirming his' or
     hers addition, this person will receive a notification informing
them that they have been added to the list.
     L10 : permissions to send to the list are exclusively assigned to
the editors and owners of the list, any other person who
     sends a message to the list will need a confirmation from the
editor.
     L11 : by owners, means that only owners are allowed to review the
list of user names subscribed to the list.
     L12 : stats determines whether or not list statistics are
available, and to whom.
     L13 : validate determines whether or not list commands must be
validated with a password or not (the password is
     specified in the list header)
     L14 : notebook is the path of the directory where the user database
is stored.
     L15 : the list password, required for get or put commands.
     L16 : in this line and in the following lines, you can include user
names in order to add them automatically without sending
     any subscriptions messages.

3. SUBSCRIBE / SIGNOFF USERS AND MANAGE ARCHIVES VIA E-MAIL

According to the specifications of the mailing list created above, users
can subscribe, sign off or get archives from the mailing
list following these commands:

     SUBSCRIPTIONS: every user needs to
          send an e-mail to: listserv@host.domain.com (the user name of
listserv in you system)
          in the body of the message, the user should type: SUBSCRIBE
NAME_OF_MAILING_LIST FULL_NAME
          (delete any other text from the body of the e-mail (e.g.
signature file).
          the owner of the mailing list will receive a request for
joining the list from listserv in the name of that user
          the owner will confirm the request
          the user will receive a notification message that he or she
has been added.
     SIGNOFF: to sign off automatically
          the user needs to send an e-mail to: listserv@host.domain.com
          in the body of the message he or she needs to type: SIGNOFF
NAME_OF_MAILING_LIST
          he or she will receive a message from listserv asking them to
confirm their sign off by replying with the word OK
          the user will reply by an OK message
          listserv will send the user a message saying that he or she
has been removed from the list.
     GETTING ARCHIVES: if they're enabled
          the user needs to send an e-mail to: listserv@host.domain.com
          in the body of the message he or she needs to type: INDEX
NAME_OF_MAILING_LIST
          the user will receive a reply with all the logs in the archive
database,
          he or she can order these files by sending a message back to :
listserv@host.domain.com
          in the body of the message he or she needs to type: GET
NAME_OF_MAILING_LIST LOGXXXX where
          LOGXXXX is the log number of the file of their choice.
          finally listserv will reply with the message the user
requested.


4 . DEPLOYING NAVIGATOR GOLD OR COMMUNICATOR FOR TARGETED HTML E-MAIL

Either by composing an HTML e-mail message within Netscape Communicator
or by publishing an HTML page with
Netscape Navigator Gold then attaching this page, the Netscape client
suite allows you to send targeted HTML e-mail with
multimedia attachments distributed to a variety of customers using
ListServ mailing lists.
----------
Also, here's a URL for LISTSERV: http://www.lsoft.com/listserv.stm.
There's also a free version for small sites and test use, called
LISTSERV Lite: http://www.lsoft.com/listserv-lite.html.

Note also that they sell an MTA, LSMTP, for NT and OpenVMS.
----------

Hope this helps.

Nunu Javeri
CSE Netscape


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From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 00:07:01 1998
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Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:44:02 -0500
To: Majordomo Users Mailing List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
From: David Gibbs <david@midrange.com>
Subject: Using ERRORS-TO header?
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(this is a resend, as I never saw the message on the list and got no replies)

Greetings!

A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) I used a different mailing list
package for fidonet gating called GIGO... that package used the header
directive "ERRORS-TO:" to redirect delivery errors to another address.

I seem to remember reading a reason NOT to use this directive, but I cannot
find it.

Is using ERRORS-TO a bad idea?  If so, why?

Thanks!

david 
--
| Internet: david@midrange.com
| WWW:      http://www.midrange.com/david
|
| ... A man can move mountains, a world can be turned,
| and the greatest of distances easily spanned,
| When the strength that's invested in making a fist
| is transformed into shaking a hand
|
|			- DMRoth


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 00:07:45 1998
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From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
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Subject: Re: Using ERRORS-TO header?
To: david@midrange.com (David Gibbs)
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David Gibbs said:
> 
> Is using ERRORS-TO a bad idea?  If so, why?

I think its deprecated in the RFCs (ie, destined to no longer be
used).

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 00:26:55 1998
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To: "Saleel Majeed" <saleel@trekzone.net>
Cc: <Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Majordomo without root?
References: <001501bde48d$baf238c0$41e9b094@evesham>
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
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In-Reply-To: "Saleel Majeed"'s message of "Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:56:38 +0100"
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>>>>> "SM" == Saleel Majeed <saleel@trekzone.net> writes:

SM> I was wondering, is it possible to install it without getting into the
SM> root?

Isn't this in the FAQ?  It should be...  And it's most certainly in the
archives.

The short answer is "No".

The long answer (since I've never seen it here):

This is heavily dependent on the MTA that your provider is running.  They
all have hacks that will let something like this work, sort of.

Of course, you have to be root to add aliases unless your provider has made
some special arrangements.  So you have to run things out of your account.

With Sendmail, qmail, and probably Exim (since it does everything anyway)
and almost surely others, you could try to use subparts of your address to
do things.  If your MTA is Sendmail and your delivery agent is procmail,
you can hang things off of your address like:

you+majordomo@site.com
you+test-list@site.com

and have procmail recipes that direct the subparts to the appropriate
programs.  No special setuid stuff should be needed.  qmail should have
something analogous.

If anyone has more concrete examples for any MTA/delivery agent, feel free
to share them.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 00:38:57 1998
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On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, David Gibbs wrote:

> (this is a resend, as I never saw the message on the list and got no replies)

Both eventually went through.


> [...] that package used the header
> directive "ERRORS-TO:" to redirect delivery errors to another address.
> 
> I seem to remember reading a reason NOT to use this directive, but I
> cannot find it.

It is because the mail transport standards dictate that error reports
should go the the envelope from.  Errors-To is not a known or valid email
header according to standards, and mail transport systems are under no
obligation to do anything at all with them.

-j
--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


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From: alvin@planet.fef.com (Alvin Oga)
Subject: Re: Assistence
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hi ya gary....

> Sep 17 10:27:23 mail.wittenberg.edu sendmail[1038]: KAA01038:
> SYSERR(majordomo):
>  savemail: cannot save rejected email anywhere: Resource temporarily
> unavailable

my guess is....
you just ran out of disk space ??... check /var and /  or where ever
you keep all your majordomo stuff  ( the mailing lists and archives etc )

have fun
alvin

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 02:53:07 1998
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Subject: This List Needs...
In-Reply-To: <199809171450.KAA03270@mail.wittenberg.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
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... a subject header.

I don't know about all of you but is it too much to ask to have the owner
of this list defines a SUNJECT PREFIX for this list so I can distinguish
between the posts coming from this list and all the other lists and
personal mails that I get?

How about:

subject_prefix      =   [MD-Users]

-or-

subject_prefix      =   [Majordomo-Users]

????????????

Thanks!
-Zulander


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 03:08:02 1998
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In-Reply-To: <199809200001.TAA06789@midrange.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:22:51 -0700
To: David Gibbs <david@midrange.com>,
        Majordomo Users Mailing List <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
From: Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com>
Subject: Re: Using ERRORS-TO header?
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At 5:01 PM -0700 9/19/98, David Gibbs wrote:

> Is using ERRORS-TO a bad idea?  If so, why?

Errors-to is officially deprecated in the standards, and its use
actively discouraged. Most recent sendmail installations are configured
to ignore it. It can potentially be useful to help coerce some of the
older, uglier, nasty-I'll-do-what-I-want servers to cooperate (because
THEY are also out of date to the standards, and THEIR use is actively
discouraged....), but for most site,s it's a no-op, and you really
can't depend on it working reliably.

--
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? <http://www.plaidworks.com/hockey/>)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com)
<http://www.plaidworks.com/> + <http://www.lists.apple.com/>

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 03:24:30 1998
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:39:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ray Jones <rayjones@praline.no.neosoft.com>
To: David Gibbs <david@midrange.com>
cc: Majordomo Users Mailing List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: Using ERRORS-TO header?
In-Reply-To: <199809200001.TAA06789@midrange.com>
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On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, David Gibbs wrote:

> A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) I used a different mailing list
> package for fidonet gating called GIGO... that package used the header

Damn! I've been trying to remember the name of that package. Thanks.  Back
in the early '80's, the only way I could get an Internet connection was to
become my own named "Internet site" and use GIGO to transfer e-mail and
newsgroups. 


--
Regards,

"Big Ray the Cab Driver" Jones - Licensed Tour Guide    ICQ UIN  1473313
      Author of "The Complete Idiot's Travel Guide to New Orleans"
                           ISBN 0-02-862303-7

Disseminating info about New Orleans & Louisiana via my web page at
	   http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html

or you can join "Big Ray's" New Orleans Mailing List by sending:
	subscribe noml		To: majordomo@communique.net


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 05:48:32 1998
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	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:52:12 -0400
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:52:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
Reply-To: Patrick Wiseman <lawppw@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
To: Ed Rogers <zulander@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924084932.9512A-100000@gsulaw.gsu.edu>
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Oh, no, not this again.  Get an email client which filters email into
folders according to the To: and Cc: lines.  Then there'll be no need to
clutter up the subject line with unnecessary stuff, which many people find
extremely annoying. 

Patrick

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Ed Rogers wrote:

:... a subject header.


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 06:22:31 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98
To: Majordomo Users Mailing List <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Using ERRORS-TO header? 
In-Reply-To: Message from David Gibbs <david@midrange.com> 
   of "Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:01:42 CDT." <199809200001.TAA06789@midrange.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:11:36 -0400
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David Gibbs said:
> 
> Is using ERRORS-TO a bad idea?  If so, why?

Using Errors-To is a bad idea for the simple reason that it doesn't
work.  I'm aware of no current MTA that supports it by default.
The only MTA that ever did support it was sendmail -- it was never
a standard.  There is already an existing standard -- use the
envelope FROM (which majordomo already supports).

--Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 07:25:06 1998
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	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:19:36 -0500 (EST)
From: warrenk@on-net.net (Warren Killian)
To: ken@atlas.net.tw
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: It Can't work on FreeBSD 2.2.5 platform
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:19:01 GMT
Organization: On-Net Services
Reply-To: warrenk@on-net.net
Message-ID: <360b5445.874945@mail.on-net.net>
References: <3607214D.1DE33CE6@ntmail.atlas.net.tw>
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Hi Ken,

Yes, Majordomo certainly can work on the FreeBSD platform.  There is
even a current version of Majordomo specifically ported to the FreeBSD
platform.  You can find it somewhere under
http://www.freebsd.org/ports.

Thanks,
Warren Killian
warrenk@on-net.net


On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:02:21 +0800, you wrote:

> Hello everyone :
>
>      I have used the majordomo to serve 5 mailing lists on a linux
>platform and
>
> it worked fine.
>
>     Now I have change my work platform to FreeBSD 2.2.5 , and I
>install/run
>
> the majordomo just like the same as before. I don't receive any error
>message,
>
> but after sending messages to a mailing list , users of that list can't
>receive
>
> the message. Do you usr majordomo on FreeBSD , can it work ??
>
>          Thanks a lot !!
>
>                                                         KEN
>
>


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 07:52:42 1998
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	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:25:09 -0500 (EST)
From: warrenk@on-net.net (Warren Killian)
To: <mlemsing@swavley.com.au>
Cc: <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Need help subscribing users to do system bulletins....
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:24:33 GMT
Organization: On-Net Services
Reply-To: warrenk@on-net.net
Message-ID: <360c5599.1215200@mail.on-net.net>
References: <000401bde6a8$18897e00$888422cb@magoo>
In-Reply-To: <000401bde6a8$18897e00$888422cb@magoo>
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Hi Matt,

All of the e-mail addresses in a list are stored in a file in the
majordomo/lists directory.  For example, if I had a list called
"users", the file majordomo/lists/users would contain all of their
e-mail addresses.  Each address goes on a single line.  If you can
extract your users' usernames, you can put them all in a file called
"users" and copy it to the majordomo/lists directory.

Hope this helps.

Warren Killian
warrenk@on-net.net

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:10:25 +1000, you wrote:

>Hi there.
>
>I have successfully installed Majordomo on our mail server at work =
(small
>Web Development firm). Thing is, i am wanting to use Majordomo to be =
able to
>send weekly buletins to all our system users etc but i dont want to have=
 to
>subscribe each user one by one.
>
>question is, is there a way to subscribe ALL of our system users by =
having
>their addresses in a txt file for instance...or is there another way or
>what? any help would be great as this is of reasonable importance.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Matt Lemsing.
>
>


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 08:11:56 1998
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:32:33 -0400
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: "James R. Edgar" <edgar@mail.afterfive.com>
Subject: Pandora
Sender: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
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Does anyone know where I can find Pandora for Majordomo.

James R. Edgar        Internet Programmer / Analyst
EdgeNet, Inc.        300 Theater Place, Buffalo, NY
E-mail: edgar@edgeglobal.com  Phone: (716).853.1331


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 09:11:28 1998
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Message-ID: <360A6C56.13864B5D@kos.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:59:18 -0400
From: Mark Drummond <mdrmmond@kos.net>
Organization: Royal Military College of Canada
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To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Moving lists to a new server
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Hi all,

I'm pretty new to Majordomo. I have been tasked with moving our mailing
lists to a new system where I have installed the latest release as well
as Marcos Ramirez' WWW and Admin gateways. Is it sufficient to simply
copy the contents of the lists directory on the old system to the lists
directory on the new system?

Mark


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 09:33:20 1998
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To: warrenk@on-net.net
Cc: <mlemsing@swavley.com.au>, <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: Need help subscribing users to do system bulletins....
References: <000401bde6a8$18897e00$888422cb@magoo> <360c5599.1215200@mail.on-net.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.100)
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 24 Sep 1998 11:14:54 -0500
In-Reply-To: warrenk@on-net.net's message of "Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:24:33 GMT"
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>>>>> "WK" == Warren Killian <warrenk@on-net.net> writes:

WK> If you can extract your users' usernames, you can put them all in a
WK> file called "users" and copy it to the majordomo/lists directory.

Don't expect to be able to do that in future versions.  Don't expect it to
even work well in the current version, since you aren't doing any locking.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 09:38:24 1998
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From: Andy Worthington <aworthin@cce.occe.ou.edu>
To: "'majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM'" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: archive
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:15:39 -0500
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I just joined this list so I am sure this has come up before.

I was setting up archiving for some list and I read that there are more =
than one archive program that can be used but the README didn't say =
anything about where the other programs can be found.  I was wanting an =
archiver that adds the messages to a web page like the archives of this =
list are on a web page.  Can anyone tell me where I can find something =
for this or if there is one out there.

Thanks
Andy Worthington=20
College of Continuing Education
University of Oklahoma


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 09:52:52 1998
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	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:46:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Message-Id: <199809241646.JAA14628@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
To: zulander@rehtori.kasanen.fi
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:46:28 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM, majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi> from "Ed Rogers" at Sep 24, 98 12:41:27 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
Content-Type: text
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...users that have modern mail agents with proper filtering
capabilities.

I don't need a subject prefix to help sort my mail. The Sender 
header can be used to sort for me. I use Eudora this way when I read
mail online, and procmail to do it for me when I am on vacation.

BTW, the best subject-prefixed lists use ~6 chars or less. Anything
more and it takes away from the more important information contained 
in the subject. "[Majordomo-Users]" would have been way too long.

--bill


Ed Rogers said:
> 
> ... a subject header.
> 
> I don't know about all of you but is it too much to ask to have the owner
> of this list defines a SUNJECT PREFIX for this list so I can distinguish
> between the posts coming from this list and all the other lists and
> personal mails that I get?
> 
> How about:
> 
> subject_prefix      =   [MD-Users]
> 
> -or-
> 
> subject_prefix      =   [Majordomo-Users]
> 
> ????????????
> 
> Thanks!
> -Zulander
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 10:25:09 1998
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	by sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA14843;
	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Message-Id: <199809241650.JAA14843@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Help for newbies
To: ray@earthone.com (Ray Gabriel)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:50:22 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <B0000263925@ourgallery.ourgallery.com> from "Ray Gabriel" at Sep 18, 98 05:18:50 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
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I highly recommend the O'Reilly "Managing Mailing Lists" book.
Spend the $; better than most anything on the net.

BTW, don't forget to have a look at the Majordomo chapter from
O'Reilly's "Managing Internet Information Services" which can be
found in the Doc directory of the source distribution. This might 
be good enough for the basics.

--bill



Ray Gabriel said:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I've just signed up for a service that
> includes Majordomo list hosting making
> me the new "systems administrator.
> 
> I already have 2 (non-Majordomo) mailing 
> lists with close to 8,000 members, but 
> I'm not a programmer and am unfamiliar 
> with the software. 
> 
> I've been following this list for 
> awhile, and was wondering if anyone
> has or knows where to get a simplified
> instruction sheet for managing, posting,
> etc. using the current Majordomo written
> for non-programmers?
> 
> I've got the FAQ but it is aimed primarily
> at those already familiar with the software
> and programming. Neither of which I am<g>.
> 
> Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks all!
> 
> 
> Ray Gabriel
> executive director 
> Association for International Business
> hosts of the International Business Discussion Group
> P.O.Box 1080  Salida, Colorado 81201 - USA
> tel/fax: 719-942-4040
> -------------------------------------------------------
> serving nearly 8,000 community members in 160 countries 
> Home Page:        http://www.earthone.com
> E-mail Discussion:http://earthone.com/internat.html
> Archives:         http://www.liszt.com/read/intlbiz/
> Information:      mailto:info@earthone.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 10:28:44 1998
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Message-ID: <360A5923.1E7C7649@kos.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:37:23 -0400
From: Mark Drummond <mdrmmond@kos.net>
Organization: Royal Military College of Canada
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

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Hi all,

I'm pretty new to Majordomo. I have been tasked with moving our mailing
lists to a new system where I have installed the latest release as well
as Marcos Ramirez' WWW and Admin gateways. Is it sufficient to simply
copy the contents of the lists directory on the old system to the lists
directory on the new system?

Mark

--------------3E08EB84F603FE5CAA7F49DE
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begin:vcard
n:Drummond;Mark
tel;home:1.613.542.1843
tel;work:1.613.541.6000 x6060
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
org:Royal Military College of Canada;Computing Services
adr:;;3-1B Ypres Drive;Kingston;Ontario;K7K 5K3;CANADA
version:2.1
email;internet:mdrmmond@kos.net
title:Network Consultant
fn:Mark
end:vcard


--------------3E08EB84F603FE5CAA7F49DE--

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From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 10:36:45 1998
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
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From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Date: 24 Sep 1998 09:08:52 -0500
In-Reply-To: Ed Rogers's message of "Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:41:27 +0200 (GMT+0200)"
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>>>>> "ER" == Ed Rogers <zulander@rehtori.kasanen.fi> writes:

ER> ... a subject header.

They all have subject headers.

ER> I don't know about all of you but is it too much to ask to have the
ER> owner of this list defines a SUNJECT PREFIX for this list so I can
ER> distinguish between the posts coming from this list and all the other
ER> lists and personal mails that I get?

Please, no.  There are perfectly good headers on every message that you can
filter on.  If whatever you use to read your email doesn't let you filter
on them, why not get better software?  Don't force others on the list to
then reconfigure to take the annoying prefixes back out.

 - J<

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 11:07:20 1998
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From: David Gibbs <david@midrange.com>
Message-Id: <199809241801.NAA15017@midrange.com>
Subject: Re: Using ERRORS-TO header?
To: bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com (Bill Houle)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:01:18 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: david@midrange.com, majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809240606.XAA15996@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com> from "Bill Houle" at Sep 23, 98 11:06:08 pm
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I guess the big question is... Is there a overriding reason NOT
to use the ERRORS-TO directive?

I have a LOT of subscribers who are using very old, rather brain dead,
mail systems (lotus notes & cc:mail) and was hoping they might
deal with an errors-to directive a bit better.

david

> 
> David Gibbs said:
> > 
> > Is using ERRORS-TO a bad idea?  If so, why?
> 
> I think its deprecated in the RFCs (ie, destined to no longer be
> used).
> 
> --bill
> 
> 


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 11:10:39 1998
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:32:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Sill <de5@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
References: <199809171450.KAA03270@mail.wittenberg.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
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Ed Rogers <zulander@rehtori.kasanen.fi> wrote
>... a subject header.

...like I need another hole in my head.

>I don't know about all of you but is it too much to ask to have the owner
>of this list defines a SUNJECT PREFIX for this list so I can distinguish
>between the posts coming from this list and all the other lists and
>personal mails that I get?

A much better way to distinguish list mail is filter on the return
path, e.g.:

    From majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM Thu Sep 24 15:25:25 1998

It's much better than cluttering everyone's Subject fields with noise
like [Majordomo-Users].

Here's a procmail recipe that does the trick:

:0:
* From majordomo-users-owner
spool/majordomo

-Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 12:18:04 1998
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From: "Scott Rothgaber" <scott@easley.net>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:51:11 -0400
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On 24 Sep 98, at 12:41, Ed Rogers wrote:

> ... a subject header.

> subject_prefix      =   [MD-Users]

Over on the Portmaster Users list they use "(PM)"



* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*                                                       *
*  Easley Internet Solutions            AIM: ExCavSGT   *
*  Easley, SC  USA                      ICQ: 10722606   *
*  http://www.easley.net                864.859.2400    *
*                                                       *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 12:26:08 1998
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:50:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
To: majordomo-users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
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>To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
>Cc: majordomo-users-owner@GreatCircle.COM
>Subject: This List Needs...
>From: Ed Rogers <zulander@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
>Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:41:27 +0200 (GMT+0200)

>... a subject header.

Aargh! That's evil and annoying. I want to be able to read as much of the
Subject in a one-line display on the index screen as possible.

>I don't know about all of you but is it too much to ask to have the owner
>of this list defines a SUNJECT PREFIX for this list so I can distinguish
>between the posts coming from this list and all the other lists and
>personal mails that I get?

Filter your messages from mailing lists on the Sender. Don't rely on tag text
in the Subject.

By the way, [listname]-owner is the wrong alias. Use owner-[listname]. The
explanation is in the FAQs.


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 13:27:21 1998
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:58:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Sill <de5@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo without root?
In-Reply-To: <ufazpbq749y.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu>
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	<ufazpbq749y.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu>
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Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu> wrote:
>
>With Sendmail, qmail, and probably Exim (since it does everything anyway)
>and almost surely others, you could try to use subparts of your address to
>do things.  If your MTA is Sendmail and your delivery agent is procmail,
>you can hang things off of your address like:

...and sendmail is configured to support procmail...

>you+majordomo@site.com
>you+test-list@site.com
>
>and have procmail recipes that direct the subparts to the appropriate
>programs.  No special setuid stuff should be needed.  qmail should have
>something analogous.
>
>If anyone has more concrete examples for any MTA/delivery agent, feel free
>to share them.

With qmail, by default, extension addresses look like:

you-majordomo@site.com
you-test-list@site.com

Depending upon how you configure Majordomo (see the qmail & Majordomo
FAQ on http://www.qmail.org), you could handle you-majordomo@site.com
by creating a file called ~/.qmail-majordomo containing:

    |/home/you/majordomo/majordomo

And you-test-list@site.com would be handled by ~/.qmail-test-list:

    |/home/you/majordomo/resend -l you-test-list you-test-list-owner

And you'd want to touch ~/.qmail-test-list-owner (or put the owner's
address there, if it isn't "you"). You could also have
~/.qmail-test-list-request contain:

     |/home/you/majordomo/majordomo -l you-test-list

If you wanted to accept Majordomo commands via
you-test-list-request@site.com. (Majordomo has to be configured to
accept these, but that's no problem since you own your Majordomo).

This is pretty much how majordomo@ornl.gov is configured, except "you" 
is a dedicated Majordomo user, and I use qmail's user database to make 
the list aliases look global (i.e., not prefixed with the "you-"
part).

Two big advantages of this configuration are that the Majordomo
wrapper is not needed (everything runs as the Majordomo user) and the
use of qmail allows reliable, completely automatic bounce handling
using VERP. There are other advantages, and some will claim there
disadvantages. See the list archives or write me offline for more
information,

-Dave

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 14:17:55 1998
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	id 0zMDOO-0000ix-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:33:16 +0100
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:33:16 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Anthony Galietti <agalietti@sorosny.org>, Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: restricting commands
Message-ID: <19980924163316.A2759@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <36012C99.B2C27516@sorosny.org>
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Anthony Galietti wrote:

> Can certain commands be restricted?  For example, I would prefer if the
> "who" command could only be used by certain people.

who_access and which_access in the list config file.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 14:19:39 1998
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	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:44:49 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:44:47 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Mark Drummond <mdrmmond@kos.net>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Moving lists to a new server
In-Reply-To: <360A5923.1E7C7649@kos.net>
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> I'm pretty new to Majordomo. I have been tasked with moving our mailing
> lists to a new system where I have installed the latest release as well
> as Marcos Ramirez' WWW and Admin gateways. Is it sufficient to simply
> copy the contents of the lists directory on the old system to the lists
> directory on the new system?

You will probably need to recompile wrapper.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 14:34:45 1998
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	id 0zMDfQ-0000u2-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:50:52 +0100
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:50:52 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Fernando Ronci <fernando@waycom.com.ar>, Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Problems w/majordomo
Message-ID: <19980924165052.G2759@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <3.0.5.32.19980922020733.00a0b220@relay.waycom.com.ar>
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Fernando Ronci wrote:

> Nothing bad found!  Majordomo _should_ work correctly.

So what's the pronblem? As it says, it found no problems. Of course, if
you _are_ seeing some problem, tell us what and you'll get some help.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 16:20:55 1998
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Message-ID: <360AD013.90E6DE38@talon.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:04:56 -0400
From: eliza <eliza@talon.net>
Organization: http://www.sacredspiral.com
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Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?
BB, eliza


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 16:25:43 1998
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christopher Adams <chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: reply to/autoresponders
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.980924150920.9723A-100000@sparkie.osl.state.or.us>
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I know that this has been discussed here before and I did check the 
archives, but I still have a question that still has not been clarified. 


I am not yet sure how to use the reply-to in the configuration file. When 
I first started administering these lists, I had all of them configured 
to reply to the list. Because of all the autoresponders, I changed them 
to reply to the sender. Then several people on the list said not to use 
the reply to at all. So, I assumed that meant to leave the Reply To 
configuration empty in the configuration file. However, that seems to 
default the list to reply to the list. What did?
I miss? When you say not to use the reply to at all, what are you saying 
I should do? Not entering ahnything in the Reply To: field has caused the 
dreaded loop. I'm sure there must be a simple solution to this. And yes, 
I am aware that there are programs to filter mail and good 
autresponders/mail programs vs bad ones.

Any help would be nice. Thanks.

Christopher Adams



From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 16:59:48 1998
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To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
In-Reply-To: Ed Rogers's message of "Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:41:27 +0200 (GMT+0200)"
Date: 24 Sep 1998 15:06:27 -0700
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Ed Rogers <zulander@rehtori.kasanen.fi> writes:

> I don't know about all of you but is it too much to ask to have the
> owner of this list defines a SUNJECT PREFIX for this list so I can
> distinguish between the posts coming from this list and all the other
> lists and personal mails that I get?

This is the second most inflamatory subject concerning running mailing
lists, next to Reply-To.  :/

For those of us who have MUAs with decent mail filtering support, subject
prefixes are ugly and annoying, because the mail's all already in its own
separate inbox.  My experience has been the same as my experience with
setting Reply-To:  For small lists, you can do whatever you want, but as
the list gets larger and larger, it becomes a better and better idea not
to munge messages.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)         <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 17:01:05 1998
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	id 0zMDYv-0000oh-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:44:09 +0100
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:44:08 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Saleel Majeed <saleel@trekzone.net>, Majordomo-Users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Majordomo without root?
Message-ID: <19980924164408.D2759@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <001501bde48d$baf238c0$41e9b094@evesham>
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Saleel Majeed wrote:

> I have just recently found out that my web hoster won't allow me access into
> the "root" to install Majordomo.

No, you need root access to add entries to /etc/aliases.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
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From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 17:05:20 1998
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From: Bill Houle <bhoule@sparc.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
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Message-Id: <199809242017.NAA24346@ssol020.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Pandora
To: edgar@mail.afterfive.com (James R. Edgar)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:17:40 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-Reply-To: <199809241432.KAA10925@edgeglobal.com> from "James R. Edgar" at Sep 24, 98 10:32:33 am
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James R. Edgar said:
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find Pandora for Majordomo.

I assume you already checked the UMUC web site as listed in the FAQ
(and found no links to source)? Why not ask the UMUC contact? I'm
not sure if the original author is active on this list.

--bill


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 17:32:53 1998
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	id 0zMDdu-0000tk-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:49:18 +0100
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:49:18 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: ken@atlas.net.tw, majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: It Can't work on FreeBSD 2.2.5 platform
Message-ID: <19980924164918.F2759@scientia.demon.co.uk>
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Ken Hu wrote:

[formatting fixed]

> Now I have change my work platform to FreeBSD 2.2.5 , and I install/run
> the majordomo just like the same as before. I don't receive any error
> message, but after sending messages to a mailing list , users of that
> list can't receive the message. Do you usr majordomo on FreeBSD ,
> can it work ??

Yes, I use it and works fine. What errors are you seeing? Look in
/var/tmp/majordomo.debug, /var/tmp/resend.debug, the Majordomo log file,
and your MTA log file.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 17:38:03 1998
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	id 0zMDX3-0000oS-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:42:13 +0100
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:42:13 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: David Gibbs <david@midrange.com>,
        Majordomo Users Mailing List <majordomo-users@greatcircle.com>
Subject: Re: Using ERRORS-TO header?
Message-ID: <19980924164213.C2759@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <199809200001.TAA06789@midrange.com>
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David Gibbs wrote:

> A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) I used a different mailing list
> package for fidonet gating called GIGO... that package used the header
> directive "ERRORS-TO:" to redirect delivery errors to another address.

The return path address directs mail delivery errors. There is no reason
for any other header. I have seen other MLMs which insert it, God only
knows why :-(

> Is using ERRORS-TO a bad idea?  If so, why?

Because most MTAs probably don't support it.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 17:39:51 1998
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	id 0zMDcU-0000tR-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:47:50 +0100
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:47:50 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: arjen <av3@xs4all.nl>, Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: .info and .intro files
Message-ID: <19980924164750.E2759@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <3606A1F6.1821F92A@xs4all.nl>
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arjen wrote:

> i'm looking for docs on the .intro and .info file, especially how to
> edit them as a list owner through the .config file (or any other way).
> Can someone point me to the right spot?

``info <list>'' retrieves the .info file. ``newinfo <list> <password>''
(I think) stores the rest of the message, or up to a line which is just
"EOF" as the .info file. s/info/intro/ as needed.

eg,

info foo

then, edit the info, and send it back like this:

newinfo foo bar
This is the foo@host mailing list

...

EOF

where foo is the list and bar is the password.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 18:13:01 1998
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:01:48 -0700
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
From: Jeff Welch <jwelch@cutter.com>
Subject: Re: Need help subscribing users to do system bulletins....
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Does anyone know if there's any performance drawbacks if you use a PC
formatted file (rather than a Unix formatted file) for the list of
subscribers?  It seems to work OK, but I'm wondering if sendmail is burping
on encountering CR+LF at the end of every line when I upload a list of
addresses from a Win95 machine.  I can convert to Unix format once it's on
the server, but I'm wondering if this is totally unnecessary.  Can anyone
shed any light on this?

Jeff

At 02:24 PM 9/24/98 GMT, Warren Killian wrote:
>Hi Matt,
>
>All of the e-mail addresses in a list are stored in a file in the
>majordomo/lists directory.  For example, if I had a list called
>"users", the file majordomo/lists/users would contain all of their
>e-mail addresses.  Each address goes on a single line.  If you can
>extract your users' usernames, you can put them all in a file called
>"users" and copy it to the majordomo/lists directory.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Warren Killian
>warrenk@on-net.net
>
>On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:10:25 +1000, you wrote:
>
>>Hi there.
>>
>>I have successfully installed Majordomo on our mail server at work (small
>>Web Development firm). Thing is, i am wanting to use Majordomo to be able to
>>send weekly buletins to all our system users etc but i dont want to have to
>>subscribe each user one by one.
>>
>>question is, is there a way to subscribe ALL of our system users by having
>>their addresses in a txt file for instance...or is there another way or
>>what? any help would be great as this is of reasonable importance.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Matt Lemsing.


From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 18:32:56 1998
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From: csk@acm.org
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Greetings.

As a new subscriber and a novice majordomo list owner, I'd appreciate a
pointer to a good treatise on managing majordomo via email.

Thanks.
Catherine Kozlowski
Reply to: csk@acm.org

[As Douglas Adams, author of the "Hitchhiker" series, said: "Macintosh -- we
might not get everything right, but at least we knew the century was going
to end."]

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 18:47:50 1998
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	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:14:30 +0100 (GMT/BST)
From: andy@mythic.net (Andy Smith)
To: Ed Rogers <zulander@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
Cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:14:34 GMT
Organization: Mythical Solutions
Message-ID: <360ca7c5.8958109@mail.powernet.co.uk>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980924123709.15529A-100000@rehtori.kasanen.fi>
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On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:41:27 +0200 (GMT+0200), Ed Rogers
<zulander@rehtori.kasanen.fi> wrote:

>... a subject header.
>
>I don't know about all of you but is it too much to ask to have the owner
>of this list defines a SUNJECT PREFIX for this list so I can distinguish
>between the posts coming from this list and all the other lists and
>personal mails that I get?

The thing is, many current MUA's and filter progs like procmail can
filter based on any header, not just the subject.

-- 
Andy J. Smith ... <andy@mythic.net> ... <http://www.strugglers.net/andy>
Mail to andy-key@mythic.net for PGP Key, or check the key servers ......
KeyID: 0xBF15490B FP: 0E42 36CB 5295 1E14 5360  6622 2099 B64C BF15 490B

3) I don't sign parts of the body, even if they're still attached.
  -- Terry Pratchett, news://alt.fan.pratchett

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 19:03:56 1998
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	by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23445
	for <Majordomo-Users@greatcircle.com>; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
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	id 0zMDRU-0000jT-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:36:28 +0100
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:36:28 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: "system PRIVILEGED account- John F. Marten" <root@tigger.oslc.org>,
        Majordomo-Users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: flooded by cc's
Message-ID: <19980924163628.B2759@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <9809172210.AA09965@tigger.oslc.org>
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system PRIVILEGED account- John F. Marten wrote:

> my questions: was this just a fluke caused by the user? is this
> an undisclosed 'feature' of majordomo? or was i the victim of a
> packet-hacker? thank you, will summarize.

This is nothing to do with Majordomo, as I see it. I have sent this
message to you and the list: if someone does a group-reply now, it may
well get sent to me, you, and the list. ad infinitum. Of course, if
people simply trimmed headers such that they were only sending to the
original author and the list, we wouldn't have that problem.

Of course, if one address is listed more than once, that's caused by
broken (ie: Microsoft) mail programs, I'd guess.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 19:19:55 1998
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Reply-To: <mlemsing@swavley.com.au>
From: "Matt Lemsing" <mlemsing@swavley.com.au>
To: <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Restricting who can post to a Majordomo List...
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:22:37 +1000
Message-ID: <001301bde824$5c5939e0$838422cb@magoo>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BDE878.2E06D080
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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HI there,

well thanks to all of your EXCELLENT help & advice, I have been able to
setup a 'announce' list on our site to send our system users weekly
bulletins etc. One thing though, i am wanting to restrict posting to this
list SOLEY to me and the other sysadmin. Is there a way to make this a list
that only we can post to...?

cheers,

Matt Lemsing.

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From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 19:33:20 1998
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Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.04 #1)
	id 0zMFHM-0002X7-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:34:08 +0100
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:34:08 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>,
        Saleel Majeed <saleel@trekzone.net>
Cc: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo without root?
Message-ID: <19980924183408.A7694@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <001501bde48d$baf238c0$41e9b094@evesham> <ufazpbq749y.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu>
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Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:

> you+majordomo@site.com
> you+test-list@site.com

[...]

> If anyone has more concrete examples for any MTA/delivery agent, feel free
> to share them.

With Exim (I know you mentioned it, but I thought I'd give more detail),
you could try something like this in a .forward file, assuming your
administrators have enabled using .forward as an Exim filter file, and has
enabled the local part suffixes. (The ``# Exim filter'' line is needed.)

# Exim filter
if $local_part_suffix is "+majordomo" then
  pipe "bin/wrapper majordomo"
else if $local_part_suffix is "+listname" then
  pipe "bin/wrapper resend -l listname"
else if $local_part_suffix is "+listname-request" then
  pipe "bin/wrapper request-answer -l listname"
endif
endif
endif

wrapper probably wouldn't have to be setuid, but I think it defines some
environment variables for other programs, so it may still be needed.

I don't know how to do the equivalent of :include: in an Exim filter,
though with bulk_mailer or something, I don't think that would be needed,
just add an entry for "+listname-outgoing" which pipes it somewhere
sensible.

These also assume the majordomo programs are installed under ~user/bin/.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 22:11:46 1998
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Received: (qmail 7666 invoked by uid 50); 25 Sep 1998 04:57:57 -0000
To: majordomo-users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980924134713.7086D-100000@chinet.chinet.com>
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
In-Reply-To: "Adam H. Kerman"'s message of "Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:50:50 -0500 (CDT)"
Date: 24 Sep 1998 21:57:57 -0700
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Adam H Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com> writes:

> By the way, [listname]-owner is the wrong alias. Use owner-[listname].
> The explanation is in the FAQs.

Not necessarily true in general.  owner-[listname] is a sendmailism; all
of my lists use [listname]-owner since it makes it much easier to delegate
the list addresses.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)         <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 22:24:58 1998
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Received: (qmail 7669 invoked by uid 50); 25 Sep 1998 05:00:18 -0000
To: Majordomo-Users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Majordomo without root?
References: <001501bde48d$baf238c0$41e9b094@evesham> 	<ufazpbq749y.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu> <13834.34867.183976.247475@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov>
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
In-Reply-To: Dave Sill's message of "Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:58:11 -0400 (EDT)"
Date: 24 Sep 1998 22:00:18 -0700
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Dave Sill <de5@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov> writes:

> Depending upon how you configure Majordomo (see the qmail & Majordomo
> FAQ on http://www.qmail.org), you could handle you-majordomo@site.com by
> creating a file called ~/.qmail-majordomo containing:

>     |/home/you/majordomo/majordomo

> And you-test-list@site.com would be handled by ~/.qmail-test-list:

>     |/home/you/majordomo/resend -l you-test-list you-test-list-owner

Note that if you do this, you'll have to explicitly set the path of
majordomo.cf in majordomo, resend, and the other Majordomo programs you
use, since normally the wrapper is what provides that information and the
wrapper is no longer being invoked.  You may also have to diddle with
HOME; I forget what I ended up concluding about that for this particular
sort of setup.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)         <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

From majordomo-users-owner  Thu Sep 24 23:25:47 1998
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Received: from ben by scientia.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 2.04 #1)
	id 0zMKkY-0006ag-00; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:24:38 +0100
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:24:37 +0100
From: Ben Smithurst <ben@scientia.demon.co.uk>
To: Mark Drummond <mdrmmond@kos.net>, majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Moving lists to a new server
Message-ID: <19980925002437.A24888@scientia.demon.co.uk>
References: <360A6C56.13864B5D@kos.net>
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Mark Drummond wrote:

> I'm pretty new to Majordomo. I have been tasked with moving our mailing
> lists to a new system where I have installed the latest release as well
> as Marcos Ramirez' WWW and Admin gateways. Is it sufficient to simply
> copy the contents of the lists directory on the old system to the lists
> directory on the new system?

You'll need to copy the aliases across as well, other than that you
should be OK.

-- 
Ben Smithurst : ben@scientia.demon.co.uk : http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/

PGP: 0x99392F7D - 3D 89 87 42 CE CA 93 4C  68 32 0E D5 36 05 3D 16
     http://www.scientia.demon.co.uk/ben/pgp-key.html (or use keyservers)

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 00:25:26 1998
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	id 0zMSDO-0004Zz-00; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:22:54 +0100
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:22:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
X-Sender: cc047@arpad.thegreen.private
Reply-To: Jeffrey Goldberg <J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk>
To: Matt Lemsing <mlemsing@swavley.com.au>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Restricting who can post to a Majordomo List...
In-Reply-To: <001301bde824$5c5939e0$838422cb@magoo>
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On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Matt Lemsing wrote:

> Is there a way to make this a list that only we can post to...?

Yes.  One way is to use

 restrict_post

in the .config file and have it name a file which just has the email
addresses of the select few.

Another way is to set the list as moderated, and use approval headers,
but the first way is probably easier for you.

-j 

PS: Please don't send mail with attachments in proprietory formats to
people who have explicitly said that they want them.  Your message came
with an attachment of type application/ms-tnef.  Please configure your
mail client to be internet friendly if you are going to send mail to
people on the internet.

--
Jeffrey Goldberg                +44 (0)1234 750 111 x 2826
 Cranfield Computer Centre      FAX         751 814
 J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk     http://WWW.Cranfield.ac.uk/public/cc/cc047/
Relativism is the triumph of authority over truth, convention over justice.


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 02:13:50 1998
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:11:49 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Plymouth
From: John Horne <J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Taboo config lines
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I sent the question below in response to a comp.mail.list-admin.software
newsgroup posting, but thought that perhaps I should mail it to the mailing
list as well in case anyone else has any ideas/problems with taboo.

I should add that I checked the FAQ, which had examples, but still couldn't
get taboo to work. I used: /^MIME-Version:/i in the header section and a
similar line for the Content-Encoding.

John.
---------Forwarded Message---------

In article <6udh7u$809$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>,
        barr@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dave Barr) writes:
> In article <360a2317.64252119@news.buffnet.net>,
> Jeffrey Sick <wolfanger@wolfcrews.com> wrote:
>>
>>2) Can the list be set up to reject messages with binary attachments.
> 
> Yes.  Use taboo_* config settings.
> 
Interesting. However, I tried this using checks on the 'MIME-Version:'
header, and 'Content-Transfer-Encoding:' - I couldn't get it to
work. Any chance of a simple example to get me started :-)

I assume that the 'Content-Transfer-Encoding:' header is actually
read as part of the message body? Or can majordomo determine that
it is a header? It didn't work in either case.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Horne                                     E-mail: J.Horne@plymouth.ac.uk
Academic and Information Services              Phone :  +44 (0) 1752 - 233911
University of Plymouth, UK                     Fax   :  +44 (0) 1752 - 233919


From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 02:28:47 1998
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 02:24:38 -0700 (MST)
From: "Jay V." <infoteq@dracon.net>
To: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Strange Error; Fixed
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Thanks to everyone who assisted me with this problem:) It finally
hit me what was going on. The majordomo was preinstalled and set
to use user "daemon" instead of "majordomo". In fact I actually
had to add the users majorodomo to the system (duh me).

Additionally, the sendmail v8.9.0 is much more restrictive about
directory permissions than the old sendmail I was using. 

Lesson Learned: Be careful with preinstalled packages:D

-Jay

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Dragons' Star    :    dracon.net 4242    :    198.102.68.193 4242
			     --------
		 "May the Dragons guide your path."
------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 06:10:27 1998
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From: Norbert Bollow <nb@thinkcoach.com>
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To: jet@cbi.mobot.org
CC: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
In-reply-to: <36010807.7B6853E8@cbi.mobot.org> (message from Jay Truesdale on
	Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:00:55 -0500)
Subject: Re: Netscape Messaging Server 3.1 & Mojordomo
References:  <36010807.7B6853E8@cbi.mobot.org>
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> I tried for a couple of days to make Majordomo work with the Netscape
> Messaging Server  (v 3.01) with no success. The problem seemed to me to
> be a lack of support for sendmail's :import: macro (command?). I asked

This will not be a problem if you use TLB instead of an -outgoing alias
to send out your list mail. I don't know if TLB is still up for ftp
somewhere, but I can send you an uuencoded .tar.gz by e-mail if you want
to give it a try.

However it might be better to use the development version (of Majordomo 2)
which is available from http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/ and join the
majordomo-workers list where you can ask for help there with whatever
small changes might be needed to make it work with the Netscape MTA.
(I don't expect any serious problems there because Majordomo 2 does
not use -outgoing aliases and sendmail's :include: directive.)

May blessings from the eternal God surprise and overtake you!
                                                                Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Zuerich, Switzerland. Backup e-mail address: NB@POBOX.COM

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 06:59:04 1998
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Message-ID: <360B9FED.215B7E52@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:51:41 -0400
From: Dave Barr <barr@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Organization: Ohio State, Dept of Computer and Information Science
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To: majordomo-users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980924134713.7086D-100000@chinet.chinet.com> <ylemt04wmi.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>
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Russ Allbery wrote:
> 
> Adam H Kerman <ahk@chinet.chinet.com> writes:
> 
> > By the way, [listname]-owner is the wrong alias. Use owner-[listname].
> > The explanation is in the FAQs.
> 
> Not necessarily true in general.  owner-[listname] is a sendmailism;

Perhaps, but it's the -ism that's documented in an RFC.  It's not
really just an sendmailism any more.

> all
> of my lists use [listname]-owner since it makes it much easier to delegate
> the list addresses.

Huh?

-- 
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/
barr@cis.ohio-state.edu

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 08:23:36 1998
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From: "AMAN, ALICE L. (JSC-GT)" <alice.l.aman1@jsc.nasa.gov>
To: "'majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM'" <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: RE: Moving lists to a new server
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:25:49 -0500
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If you move a lisst and if your lissts are "open" don't you need to make
sure
the users can "unzubscribe" themselves. Will Majordomo do this? I have run
into problems in the past where the users could only be unzubscribed with an
"aprove" message from owner if the users had been originally zubscribed
simply by editing the list file in the lists directory.
 I also have to move a list and I was thinking of sending email to majordomo
on
the new system  zubscribing all users for one list (in one message if
possible)
by massaging the list of users and adding the appropriate 
"aprove"  command, etc. using some unix utilities such as awk, maybe sed.
to the new system and turning off  announcements and the welcome message
temporarily hoping the users wouldn't even know they were transferred.
  I was going to do all this to make sure they could unsubscribe themselves.
Is this not necessary?

  --A. Aman
> ----------
> From: 	Mats Dufberg[SMTP:Mats.Dufberg@abc.se]
> Sent: 	Thursday, September 24, 1998 3:44 PM
> To: 	Mark Drummond
> Cc: 	majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
> Subject: 	Re: Moving lists to a new server
> 
> > I'm pretty new to Majordomo. I have been tasked with moving our mailing
> > lists to a new system where I have installed the latest release as well
> > as Marcos Ramirez' WWW and Admin gateways. Is it sufficient to simply
> > copy the contents of the lists directory on the old system to the lists
> > directory on the new system?
> 
> You will probably need to recompile wrapper.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se
> 
> 

From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 11:35:56 1998
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:20:49 -0300
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
From: Fernando Ronci <fernando@waycom.com.ar>
Subject: me again and again
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Dear Sirs,
I'm reposting because I've had my leased line down for several hours.
If someone replied, maybe his/her e-mail got bounced. Please reply
again.
Thank you.

Original Message:
----------------
Hi again,
I finally could make Majordomo work pretty well, but there are some
commands which don't still work at all. That is, I don't get the 
expected results.
For example:
who list_name produced only: >>>> who list_name
and
intro list_name produced only: >>>> intro list_name
instead of the proper results.

What do I have to do to fix this?

Thank you,

Fernando

PS: 
The players:
Majordomo 1.94.4 - SCO OpenServer 5.0.0 - Perl 5.005 - Sendmail 8.6.8



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 12:06:33 1998
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Simeon Nevel <snevel@sonic.net>
To: majordomo-users@greatcircle.com
Subject: Re: Taboo config lines
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John Horne Said:

> [...] 
> 
> I should add that I checked the FAQ, which had examples, but still
> couldn't get taboo to work. I used: /^MIME-Version:/i in the header
> section and a similar line for the Content-Encoding.

This *exact* question was addressed just a week or so ago.  The
precise message can be found at:


http://www.greatcircle.com/lists/majordomo-users/
      mhonarc/majordomo-users.9809/msg00208.html

(all on one line of course)

Here the relevant bit (for the web-impaired) from a message posted
Sept 14, 1998 by Bill Silvert:

Actually taboo-body does this quite well. Just bounce any message that
includes any of the usual attachment headers. For example:

/^\s*Content-Disposition: attachment/
/^\s*Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64/
/^\s*Content-Type: application/
/^\s*MIME BASE64/i
/^\s*begin 4/
/^\s*begin 6/
/^\s*begin 7/


Simeon



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 12:50:39 1998
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 20:51:00 +0100 (MET)
From: Mats Dufberg <Mats.Dufberg@abc.se>
X-Sender: m8698@atle
To: Jeff Welch <jwelch@cutter.com>
cc: majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM
Subject: Re: Need help subscribing users to do system bulletins....
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980924210144.006965c8@cutter.com>
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On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Jeff Welch wrote:

> Does anyone know if there's any performance drawbacks if you use a PC
> formatted file (rather than a Unix formatted file) for the list of
> subscribers?  

I shouldn't give any problems.

> It seems to work OK, but I'm wondering if sendmail is burping
> on encountering CR+LF at the end of every line when I upload a list of
> addresses from a Win95 machine.  

No, not as far as I have seen. We have used DOS formatted files as lists
of addresses for sendmail without any side effect.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mats Dufberg                                  Mats.Dufberg@abc.se



From majordomo-users-owner  Fri Sep 25 14:40:52 1998
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:38:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.chinet.com>
To: majordomo-users <majordomo-users@GreatCircle.COM>
Subject: Re: This List Needs...
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>From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
>Date: 24 Sep 1998