On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, SRE wrote:
> At 01:50 PM 10/1/00, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
> >Developers tend to write GUIs that are really config file editors,
> >providing a point-and-click interface which requires you to understand the
> >underlying config variables, instead of the actions they control.
>
> Yep. That's so ANYTHING can be controlled, not just the things
> the GUI writer thought of.
Which is fine, for a very advanced mode.
But most users want more than just knobs -- they want a consistent usage
model that leads them to accomplish specific tasks,
> >going all the way to the task orientation, why not a check box for
> >"Users should be able to send mail to LISTNAME-subscribe to be added
> >to the list and to LISTNAME-unsubscribe" to be removed"?
>
> Listserv has something like this, which handles 90% of list admin
> for inexperienced list owners. As a more experienced owner, I find
> myself always escaping to their, which is basically the "configedit"
> command in Mj2.
But -- and I say this with great repspect -- you're a GEEK. Most list
managers are not and need not be.
> I ran into this with commercial software I wrote and sold: The config
> file had 80+ options (Mj2 has 110+) and they interacted with each other
> in complex ways (just like Mj2). Users would ask for a simple interface
> to do complex things, but would then spend page after page of email
> trying to define what they wanted to do before realizing they really
> DID need to understand all the options to set them intelligently.
Then the interactions are poorly defined.
> List configs interact with each other, and most of those interactions
> are captured in the help files. Trying to explain them on a web GUI
> might wind up looking like HTML help instead of a list config form.
HTML help with a couple of choices is far more useful for most users than
a web config form.
I give my llist-owners exactly two choices at setup time: a predefined
discussion list setup and a predefined announcement list setup. I then
have about 4 specific variations.
About 5% of my list owners go beyond that to tweak options.
> After all that ranting, if you've got time to study the configs and
> write down some sort of spec for how the GUI can simplify the common
> admin tasks, I'll see if that would allow me to configure my 30 lists
> as they are now.
The fact is, whether it will allow *you* (or even me) to do it is not that
important. It's whether it will allow the averabe newbie list-owner to do
it with 15 minutes' reading that counts.
> You'll also get further with the guy who's writing
> the web interface if you say "please do these specific things" instead
> of saying "please do this sort of thing".
Of course.
--
ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk@QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309 San Francisco, CA 94114
"There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!" -- Paul Rudnick
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